DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 16 Vikings 33 Post Game Thoughts

I agree somewhat. My overall point was that you can't judge a QB by his teams' won/loss record.

For example, DeShaun Watson was incredible today. Loss. Obviously he didn't play well.

Last week Mitchell Trubisky had six pass attempts. Win. Obviously he played well

I wasn't arguing that. I just think we should have kept Brock. I do not think going w/three QBs who haven't won a game in the NFL was a good idea.

Got it. That's not what I was originally discussing.

This is an honest question: Who are the most talented players that we let walk or cut?

These are the only I can think people could be talking about, but I could be missing some.

Greco - Signed as a backup several weeks in to the season
Barnidge - Still a FA
Pryor - We offered the most money and he was benched in Washington
Osweiler - He may have been our best QB, but he isn't good.
Haden - This is one that looks most like a mistake. Haden was overpaid for his past few years, and was risky with his injury history.
Mack - Alex was gone no matter the money we offered. Great player but he was going to be gone long before the FO or Hue were hired.
Bryant - old, overpaid DL who was replaced by younger, better players
Schwartz - Offered the biggest contract, he signed elsewhere. If the politics that were rumored occurred, it was a mistake but fault lies with both sides.

Couldn't agree more with keeping / starting Brock. Talking about this with my son today... Three QBs with NO experience and we let the only WR with any kind of threat to a defense walk. Can't make this stuff up. My question is why the heck didn't we still have McCown under contract? Was happy with his mentoring role, played his butt off and has more experience than the combined last 9 or 10 QBs not named him.

Vers, you're hitting the nail right on the head. I posted somewhere else, top priority first six weeks should have been winning at all costs. Listen to what Hue said today... "we can't win unless we're perfect, and we damn sure ain't perfect". Dude is just about beaten. We need a win in the worst way. Not for the fans, screw us, for the sanity of the team and a chance to stop the spread of this disease! Crap like this is what leads to stupid decisions and we CAN'T afford any more stupid decisions. IMO, everything has to stay intact through 2018 or it's two more steps back.

It's almost like the ultimate goal wasn't to win games, but to develop young players. . .

I think it's a tough sell for the players when they see a FO turn it's back on guys like Schwartz, Mack, Gipson, Benji, Pryor, Haden, Greco, Gabriel, Robertson, Brock, McCown, etc.

I get that the FO apologists will rip apart this post, but I think it makes a lot more sense than blaming Hue for his comments or calling a TO near the goal line.

I don't even want to talk to those guys anymore. I pray for the strength to ignore them. They just drag me down.

That makes sense. However, if it is true, talk of firing people makes no sense.

Agreed. Which is why I have said I wouldn't fire anyone.

How many seasons will it be acceptable for the FO to not care about winning?

I'd say three.

Even if they blew it all up, we would still have all these young players. They arent going away (unless they want to replace them with other young players, and maybe some washed up vets)

So basically, it comes down to the coaches. Are they crap? Can they get better coaches? Can they get a better FO? If not, then why bother blowing it up. I really do not think this team can attract any top tier FO/Coaches.

We are kind of stuck for a very long time.

What exactly should they do to fix this?

Easy fix. Fire Hue and then get a coach with football wisdom and IQ. Then get a guy for the FO who knows how to pick great players in the draft and free agency. It's really that simple.

Why hasn't anyone thought of this?

I think it will be another 2 or 3 years before we are consistent winners...if we keep the FO and Hue and company.

man we really have to see this through...but man it's painful right now.

I really hope we don't trade back nexts years draft and just take the #1 or #2 QB in the draft. hopefully the top guy this time.

Looked more like the FO extended a hand, the players spit into it and left. Just about as accurate as "turned their back on them."

Blaming the FO makes about as much sense as blaming Hue.

There is undoubtedly plenty of blame to go around for both with a ton left over from the "comedy" of errors that have piled up since the return. Getting rid of either would just be throwing more on the pile.

Still it kind of feels like the team accepts losing. How do we get them to play angry/maintain an edge? It's like we have a "hidden" expectation of losing and every time something goes wrong it gets bigger.

The confidence of all our QBs is shot. I can't tell if they can't process or they just don't trust what they see. Seems to make them a bit late and they end up "overthrowing" as they try to gear up to compensate.

My post game thought:

Over the years, I have really detested several of the things that made it "over the pond" to my country from Britain: kidney pie, the fascination with royal weddings and babies, men in capri pants, spotted dick, atrocious spelling.

After the game yesterday, I'd say we're even. I apologize to the people of England.

There is no easy fix. I think they need to stay the course.

I would like to see them use these high draft picks instead of trading down so we can get some impact players. And I don't think we should be creating holes by cutting players or allowing the better ones to walk in FA.

I think all of this losing may have altered "the course". The FO has put itself in the position where there is basically NO CHOICE but to go all in on the consensus top QB in next years draft. Unfortunately, everybody in the sport knows it. Darnold will probably stay in school because of it, and who knows who else follows suite. If they don't do it and any one of them (drafted QBs) show even a glimpse while we keep losing - Haslam is cleaning house. If he doesn't look like the "second coming" within eight weeks - Haslam is cleaning house. We've been stock piling picks and paying for cheap goods under the guise of "building" and "the process"... It's time to pay the piper, no matter what the piper is charging.

In response to the 4-eternity record since Hoyer was replaced as a starter.

Not only was it a head scratching move to the fans but it also was a key reason on why Shanahan left. You know one of the brightest offensive minds in football.

I really think too many of us on here that are blaming this regime forget how far the Farmer years have set us back!!!!

In all honesty, horrible draft picks and a circus that ran off legit NFL coaches have significantly put this franchise behind the 8 ball. I appreciate those that post and can keep things in perspective.

There is no doubt that it is hard being a Browns fan, especially as the years and losses add up. But, this FO has a plan, and I think they have done well, unfortunately the QB position continues to be a major problem and I do not see anyone in college that can be as good as Wentz or Watson. I will say that There is no way I would have imagined Wentz being this good, this early but I did see Watson as a star.

I feel we have to go all in on a QB next year. All in as in grab the best FA available and draft a QB high in the draft. We have the draft picks, time to make it happen.

I had this on the radio for a bit and listened on and off while I was doing my morning routine.

Hue Jackson has the most undisciplined team. Penalty after penalty and it's game after game. It seemed like every time I went in where the radio was to be be heard, we were backing up because of penalty. Kudos to the halftime lead, that was a shock.

No offense to Doug, hope he comes back and gets healthy soon - but I liked Nathan with Jim on the radio calls.

Some people not on the field made us better, or we didn't miss much of what they contributed before. Hue called some better, but go look at Dallas and Green Bay and how much they work the middle on passing offense. It works. Figure it out, because it helps us.
Later in the game Kizer reverted to shortest route available when we needed points and yards. Give him more of what he needs for us to succeed.

j/c ... random quotes and thoughts...



It's important to understand game situations. A timeout at this point wasn't a good call. I was screaming at the tv when the timeout was taken. Another friend said it didn't matter because Minnesota probably would have. 1) My friend needs to realize what he just said and 2) Let Minnesota use a timeout. If we score a TD on the next play, we've essentially given them 4 timeouts and 40 seconds to score. As a HC you have to assume they're going to at least get a FG in that time, so why give them any time at all? We go into the half up 13-12 instead of 13-9 because of the HC mismanagement of the clock.






I don't either. Unfortunately, I think someone is going to be fired unless we have a good second half.








Same line of thinking are with these two quotes... 1) I don't think Osweiler would be starting even if he was here. Everyone assumes it was the FO that cut him, but it was Hue's decision not to play him in the preseason. Kizer was his quarterback. Is that up for debate? Maybe, but the FO has stated that Hue is the one who decides who plays not them. I think we might have seen Osweiler play a game with Kizer's struggles, but I would have expected a Kevin Hogan type response as far as going back to Kizer, because he's the guy with all the talent who could lead us into the next phase of the "rebuild." I think yes, the ultimate goal in season one was to develop talent, as is year two, but I still think you need some positive results. I think even Jimmy once said you'll see significant improvement in year 3. I hope he keeps it all together. No major additions. No major Subtractions.








I think the 3 major players in question are Schwartz, Haden and Pryor. Schwartz and Pryor were wanted here and we attempted to sign them. In fact, we probably went above and beyond with Pryor. I don't want to rehash the Schwartz thing here, but so many believe he was dogged by the FO which he wasn't. Schwartz has since been replaced by Shon Coleman. I don't think we really miss Schwartz at this time. Same with Haden. I think the only way we miss him is his veteran leadership, but I don't think he'd be much better than the CBs we have today. I do think I'd add Gipson or Whitner to the list. I think some semblance of safety play would have helped over last season into this season, but I like that we were able to give Kindred and Reynolds playing time last year. Unfortunate Reynolds went down. I knew that one was going to hurt. But all in all, I think with the majority of the players listed, we don't really miss them.

I can't ignore the continued bashing of the front office by many of the posters. They are doing exactly what they said they will do. And NONE of us here knows exactly WHO is making the decisions on the players. Our powers that be do an excellent job of keeping things in house. I'm sure there has to be tension, but they continue to stay the course.

I read on here over and over and over that it's a shame the FO didn't keep this guy or that guy. I think it's a bit ignorant to assume the front office is making all these decisions on their own. No one knows who is making the calls but the people upstairs. Over and over there are some posters here who refuse to believe that the front office might be consulting with coaches when it comes to the players on this team. And over and over I read that Hue is innocent in all this, poor Hue, and he has nothing to do with the losses on the field. Well, Hue probably makes the same mistakes now as he'd make with the steelers or the patriots or whomever he coaches. The problem is we don't have the talent to overcome these mistakes. His mistakes certainly aren't helping our young football team. But if he still has them playing at a high level, that's a very good thing. And I think he does. You don't need to be the most talented team to win a football game. Hue is learning on the job just as much as our players. It'll come around. I hope.

Two people must enjoy science fiction books.

So exactly when did realize you were the Smartest man in the room !

I'm sure there's more than two...

And if you'd like to learn more about football there are books out there for you to read.

Not too long after I arrived in the room. Why?

Lol that was funny