DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Haslam Decision Time

Let me clarify "blowing it up." And maybe I'm wrong and we've got the foundation we've not had in the past, but a new regime can sometimes mean a new method to fix things. It's as if we are always "starting over." But I agree with what you're saying, we don't need an overhaul, we just need a few more key players and build on what we have. I think we are in phenomenal position compared to two years ago. We have hope for the future. My point is I don't want a new regime to come in and "fix" things. I think we are on the right path. Whether it's Sashi or someone else let's continue to build on what they started last year.

I know the pro-Hue camp won't like to hear this but it's up to Hue whether or not we end up winning any games. I believe you said you think we've got more talent now than two years ago. We've been in overtime a few times since he's been HC and we've only won one game.

Quarterback has a huge impact on our record. I think I saw somewhere where the difference between the Browns and Packers (minus the quarterback position) was very minimal. I was never a big fan of Kizer before the draft, but I'm the biggest fan now. He and Hue hold the keys right now. Hopefully the bye has helped and the mccarron trade put behind us. A decent second half to the season could save everyone's job.

I understand what your saying .. it makes sense ... i just don’t agree with parts of it ... like keeping everyone .. but thats well documented and were not going to change each other’s minds ..

Lets just hope whatever way the thief goes it works out for ALL OF US ....

I would LOVE to win a few games in the 2nd half .. but i won’t judge based off w’s and l’s ... i’ve never evaluated off wins and losses ... we’ve never been good enough for me to evaluate that way .. *L* ..

If we had a veteran never was qb we’d have a few wins .. no doubt in my mind ...

Our QB’s and their TURNOVERS have KILLED US ... ABSOLUTELY KILLED US ...

Its not just ther giveaways ... and their bad enough ...

Its WHERE THEY OCCUR ... crap man ... we’ve been inside the red zone for a boatload of them ... and then theres the ones that were thrown from Between the 20 - 35 or so that were intercepted in the red zone ...

Its not near as bad as it seems ...

Diam - you're right. There has been an inordinate number of picks that happen in the red zone. time and time again we put together a nice looking drive and get some momentum, only to hand it over in the home stretch. i believe one or two were good throws clanking off of the receiver, but some of those throws were God awful.

Does that surprise u .... *L* ...

There’s also the now famous QB option fumble ... *L* ...

Is that the only fumble we’ve had in red zone?

I don't care.. blame whoever you want.. single out Wentz if you want...

We have passed on...
Trubisky
Mahomes
Watson
Wentz
Precott
Brissett
Bridgewater
Carr
Garoppolo

And in that timeframe, we have taken Manziel, Kessler, Kizer, and Hogan..

I know, different regimes, different coaches, different scouts.. whatever.

I'm not asking for miracles, not asking to recognize the Tom Brady in the 6th that comes around once every 50 years.. but damn, you couldn't be wrong as often as the Browns if you just threw darts at a board...

it's nit-picking, but we did not draft Hogan.

Doesn't change the over-arching point.

They should have targeted Goff and went after him!!!!

I see the same pitch forks and rail plan developing that has kept this team on the merry go round of misery gathering together again.

But before you start pushing for change have a thought, OK?

Lets just suppose that you were working the plan the Browns set in place 2.5 years ago.

Then ask yourself this simple question. How long would you tell Haslim it would take?

For the record I was against the PLAN at its inception but 2.5 years in is NOT the time to get gun shy, and quite honestly if you were delusional enough to believe that winning would take place while purging the roster your not nearly as savvy as you lead yourself to believe.

IMO if there was ever a time to double down this is it.

Other QB's we passed on

Peyton Manning
John Elway
Dan Marino
Drew Brees
Johnny Unitas
Willie Beamen
Johnny Utah
Reno Hightower
Shane Falcon

And we passed on Tom Brady 6 times.

We need to fire the next 6 front office staffs.

I can think of some QBs that I wish were on the list of QBs we passed on.

Do you think Sashi is evaluating talent and watching game tape?

I do. In fact, I hope he does as it should make him better at his job, obviously. I think the more important question is how much he is relying on Andrew Berry and his scouting department to provide the evaluations, ranking players, etc. and Hue and his staff when it comes to players fitting systems?....I submit quite a bit, which is why it's a bit ridiculous when the narrative is that we need to get a "football guy" in here to make personnel decisions. We have plenty of "football people" in Berea. Plenty.

IMO, I believe Sashi is smart enough to know he is not the smartest in the room when it comes to that stuff. However, if, for a lack of a better phrase, there is a tie or dispute on a player or situation, he's the one to process all the data he has been given to make the final, hopefully most informed, decision. My guess that might lean toward analytics more than the eye test when all said and done.

I can't not be was the whole point of what I said. I didn't like the deal to start with and I was pissed about it. Its to late now to [censored] and moan about a done deal.

We must see it thru, and I wouldn't have expected it to be better after 2.5 years, I think I said that.

The plan was to tank, we have done the tank after this season or more like after next season will be the time.

But we simply MUST see it thru and most of this board swore they would. So to them I say suck it up. Put your pitch forks and tar away and hold that thought.

So so true.

I'm not onboard with this. This FO hasn't done anything to engender this kind of blind faith. I don't believe ANY good can EVER come from 1-31 over two years. Rebuilds don't necessarily take place in the absence of winning, but they do build a culture of losing and non-accountability in your locker room, not to mention severely eroding your fanbase.

I'm glad YOU aren't the Brown's GM Deputy... clearly Uncle Rico has been the biggest miss the Browns have made, and you missed him too!

But I will say Willie Beamen and Shane Falco should definitely receive the official DawgTalkers "We Gotta Get This Guy"!

Eroding the fan base isn't confined to the past 1.5 years....I think we can both agree to that. Plus, in my opinion, but the strong football nature of this town and fans, a decent season brings most of them back.

My response to BTTB was to say that so many people did say they wanted, for once, to have Haslem stick with a FO and coaching staff for more that a year or two. Something not afforded to a group in awhile.


Our draft and FA signings from 2012 (outside of M. Schwartz and T. Benjamin) haven't really been anything to right home about. That's half a decade of overall poor team building and three FO turnovers. Why is poor performance so surprising when a new regime comes in an completely guts everything and purges five years of poor decision-making?

This is me being biased, but if I was Jimmy Haslem, I'd come out publicly and say both the HC and FO will be retained through 2018.

I think your mistaking wanting to see it thru with blind faith trust me when I say this NOBODY was or will be harder on these folks than me.

I see a very real possibility that this just might pay off, that is if they can find the balls and the knowledge to draft and develop a QB.

I don't see the flashes I would like to see from Kiser, so at this point I do not view him as a viable NFL franchise QB. Good kid and has many of the raw skills you would like to see in a young QB but seems to lack the it factor. But will see.

But back on point no blind faith here just resolve to see this thing thru, no matter what. BTW I say that because when all this started most of the members of this board were all in. Don't give up when the finish line is within reach.. NO, NO, NO

A good and fair point, Memphis, but Haslam may not be sufficiently committed to make that statement at this time. Simply my opinion...

I agree. I don't see how he could do that at this point. We still have half the season to play.

What did we expect, the day they let go of Both Pettine and Farmer and announced that
Sashi Brown, who?
John Depodesta, who?
Pep Hamilton, and so on. Were going to be running things.

What did we expect. I didn't like it, look back, I think I mentioned 0-32 somewhere in two different posts.

I think things have looked better the last 2 or 3 times out.

What to do.

Boy, I thought the Browns were going to win this one today.

j/c

We are set to have 4 picks in the top 40.

I do not want this front office making decisions. If we don't have a new, real, football-minded GM having final say on the roster this offseason, my hope for better things will be slim to none.

j/c:

Cleveland Browns Postgame Scribbles: Hue Jackson blamed for everything? Really? -- Terry Pluto (photos)

DETROIT -- Scribbles in my Cleveland Browns notebook after their 38-24 loss to the Detroit Lions on Sunday:

1. After the game, Hue Jackson showed how the strain of a 1-24 record has worn him down. The coach said, "I'm taking the fall on everything." No doubt, it feels that way to Jackson. But it's really not the case. The front office has received just as much criticism, if not more than the coaching staff.

2. Later in the same post-game interview, Jackson said, "I've been taking heat since I got here."

3. That's simply not true. Jackson received very little criticism in his first season, where he had a 1-15 record. That is the worst of any Browns coach in history.

4. Most fans and media people understood the front office made the choice to rip up the roster of an underachieving 3-13 team and go with younger players. Losing was coming. Jackson also knew the plan when he was hired.

5. It may feel to Jackson as if he's been "taking heat" since he arrived, but it really has started this season. Some of the criticism is justified. It was a gamble to open the year with a 21-year-old DeShone Kizer starting at quarterback.

6. Jackson pulled Kizer out of games twice in a row because of poor performance. You can see Jackson's desperation in some of his moves. In one game, he replaced Kizer with Cody Kessler -- when the Browns had the ball on their own 1-yard-line. It was the first time Kessler played in a regular season game this season.

7. Jackson on criticism from social media: "Twitter can blow up as far as I'm concerned. We're talking about Hue Jackson. It's doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to defend that. I'm not worried about the heat..."

8. Obviously, Jackson is concerned about "the heat." He is 1-24. It's hard to imagine any coach surviving when winning only one game in two years. He knows that. He wants to remain a head coach in the NFL. This is his dream, and it's been a nightmare this season.

9. In this game, Kizer audibled and called a sneak at the end of the first half. It didn't work. The clock ran out before the Browns could kick a field goal. The Browns just should have said that. Instead, Jackson kept saying, "It's on me." He would not say directly if he called the play.

10. Then Jackson told Kizer not to talk about it. Kizer was told to simply say, "The coach addressed it." Kizer said that several times.

11. Of course, other players said Kizer changed the play. It wasn't the worst decision. Kizer has scored on three quarterback sneaks this season, including one in the second half. The coach could have said, "DeShone wanted to try it... He'll learn."

12. I'm sure Kizer would have directly addressed it and taken the blame had he been allowed to do so. He has been a stand-up guy this season when facing tough questions.

13. Jackson has had some clock management issues. This game was only the second time all year the Browns have scored a touchdown in the first quarter. That's alarming. Even bad teams tend to have some promising starts to games. The other first quarter TD was in the 21-18 opening day loss to Pittsburgh.

14. I wrote about Kizer in my game column. By far, this was the best game of his young career. I really wonder if Cody Kessler should be the backup next week. He was overwhelmed when he took over for Kizer. He threw three passes, completing one for five yards. He overthrew a wide-open Byrce Treggs by about 10 yards.

15. Kessler was on the field for seven plays. He was sacked three times. It shows how Kizer was getting rid of the ball faster and was able to use his athleticism to move around and stay away from negative plays. Kizer was sacked only once.

16. The Browns defense was shelled for 21 points in the second half. The Lions scored TDs on three of their first five possessions. The Browns defense also had a bad day against the run. The Lions rushed for 104 yards in 19 carries, a 5.5-yard average.

17. Browns tight end Seth DeValve caught a 35-yard pass. But he also had the ball ripped out of his hands and run back for a Detroit TD on another play. He was also flagged for holding on what would have been a 29-yard catch for Kenny Britt.

18. Myles Garrett didn't have a sack, but he knocked down Matthew Stafford as the Detroit quarterback released the ball. That led to a Jamie Collins interception.

19. But what fits in with the Browns season, Collins hurt the MCL in his knee on that play. He was out for the game and the Browns will know more about his condition Monday.

20. Emmanuel Ogbah did thrive with the return of Garrett, who takes up so much attention from blockers. Playing on the opposite side of the line from Garrett, Ogbah had two sacks and a tackle for a loss.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/11/cleveland_browns_postgam_postg.html

I'll just be real, simple and blunt... if Hue had a QB that could operate and etc, we'd not questioning anyone. The front office would look like stars and Hue would be the coach of all coaches.

Simple as that.

Unfortunately it's not that way even though I did watch the game and did see Kizer operate pretty nicely. We need to continue to see the improved game play and all around. Also, the run game opened up so we need to continue that as the season ends.

Everyone should stay, but do their damn jobs and most importantly, focus all resources for an extended period of time on finding a QB and just a QB. Maybe he's Kizer, maybe he's not...

Pluto has become a joke!

Especially when he writes something that doesn't fit nicely with what you want the narrative to be.

After missing so many obvious QB's, I don't think we can find the QB, and its not only the QB,its obvious that we just don't now how to draft.

How can we rebuild if we can't spot talent?

You just directed an unflattering personal comment when all I did was talk about about something that was in the article. I did not say a word to you. I didn't bad-mouth other posters. I commented on what I thought was an absurd comment. Of course, you made it personal.

Hmmmm........what was that comment? Something like this: Why must you belittle another poster when you don't agree with his opinion?

Actually it's about context and not a narrative.

Hue put the loss on his back and not the players. That's what good leaders do. It was turned into something else completely.

Just takes one pick.

We have varying definitions of what belittling means.

And you do not need to direct a comment to me in order for me to respond. You can say Terry Pluto's comment is absurd. I can also insinute that your comment can be equally absurd or something that is ironic. Both apply here, I guess.

Actually, I'm with Pluto on this one. I don't think he did, I actually think that the way he addressed it was to divert the blame,like he always does.

He could have said, It's my fault because I wasted our last time out on a stupid call..

It's my fault because I should have thought Kizer not to audible a sneak...

It's my fault because that play was immaterial to the end result...

The truth is that Hue doesn't even have to take the stand, he is the HC, so it's always his fault in the first place.

What Pluto is saying is that Hue should have handled the whole situation differently.

If he called the play,he should say it, if it was Kizer, he should stand by his QB and not throw him under the bus...

My point is that you made it personal. You know, the same thing that you accuse me of doing. In fact, you do it all the time.

You could have easily disagreed w/my opinion w/out making it personal. Heck, you didn't even address what Pluto said.

That's not what I was referring to, but I agree with your comment.

How so? I think the FO has taken a lot of heat in the past weeks.


As the head coach, he has to do the post game PC, so he is up there more often.

How so? Pluto is using Hue's words, but it misrepresenting Hue's message. It's pretty lame if you ask me.

As far as you claim goes.......I gotta disagree. Guys like you come on here weekly and keep talking about firing Hue because of the record, but somehow, you never mention the FO as being responsible for the record.

Thus, any way you shake it.....I disagree w/what Pluto is saying.