DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns HC Hue Jackson Wants More Say In Personnel Matters Moving Forward

Naw, I understand. I still wouldn't blow Jackson off though. We got hammered for not taking Watson after his great start this season, and I actually think Jackson is better Watson.

In regards to Rosen vs. Jackson, I think most will nod in Rosen's favor, but more so because he looks the part. Mobile QB's get a knock for multiple reasons.

i think Lamar is the kind of QB Hue wants.

there's QB fans want, and then there's QB's the coach wants.

with Hue's style of offense, a stiff in the pocket QB is not the kind of player Hue wants, IMO.

Hope he is not here to make the decision.... he can go whispering to another place...

What QB has Jackson had in the past that leads you to that conclusion - Palmer, Flacco, Dalton, Jason Campbell, RG III, maybe? God save us.

Rosen should be Chosen.

If Hue stays and takes Lamar with the first pick while passing on Rosen, I'm done. Sadly, this is exactly what I expect.

Why would you be upset that Hue wants the better qb over Rosen?

That makes no sense.

Anyone ever think of a situation where lets say, hue gives or sashi gives the other a list of 2 or 3 guys, and then they make the final call on the one.

so lets say this year, hue says with the first pick I want Rosen, Darnold, or player X. and Then sashi picks 1 of them them, or vice versa. That way they both get to say they have say on the roster.

Rish and dawgpound vocalized exactly what I thought when I saw this article.

I thought Hue already had say about personnel...? The Cody Kessler "Trust me" comes to mind. He sure made it sound like he has the influence. Maybe he only has say when it comes to QBs? If so, then passing on Wentz is on him... not a good look.

If Hue wants more say on the personnel side of things, then he should get an OC to help him out on the field so he doesn't get stretched too thin.

Summary: I have no problem with coaches having a say over which players we get. If they get amped up about having or not having certain guys, that should be taken into account. I have even less of a problem giving coaches more say when our current talent evaluators are as bad as they are.

You're saying Lamar is better than Rosen, not me. So... that wouldn't be the case, would it? I can see why why some might prefer Lamar's mobility, but I'd rather have Rosen's pocket ability, vision and accuracy. Lamar may turn out to be great. Rosen may start out that way.

Rosen plays like another matt leinart

In your opinion.

true.

however, regardless of who gets picked, we all know you aren't done.

just like if hue gets fired, we all know Vers will still be here.

I thought when they set this thing up that they said that the Scouting Dept. (Andrew Berry) and the coaching staff (Hue) would have equal say and that Sashi would only step in when there was a disagreement between the two to break the tie. Am I right?

Damn it! You know me so well. (Honestly, as long as we get Rosen, Darnold, Lamar, Allen, Mayfield or Rudolph I'll be back. And probably even if we don't. So sad.)

I don't think Kessler was a Hue Jackson pick. Despite the 'trust me' quote, I think Hue took ownership of it to cover the front offices behinds. Kessler pick has analytics written all over it.

I haven't seen him play much, and I have seen little of Rosen, I do not like Mayfield. I will say whoever we get is going to need to a sure fire instant starter, we know they will not get time here to sit.

Actually, it has Hue all over it. Hue loves accuracy more than talent.

lets hope. in relation to the thread, i'm worried about a scenario where the FO is gonna want to roll another year with Kizer due to the second round investment, while Hue will want a QB with our 1st overall.

I feel like hue needs more say overall. i know people have shown articles that HINTS at the situation on berea, but honestly it feels to me that Sashi goes solo dolo in a lot of decisions. I think Hue wanted Watson at 12, but Sashi decided the value of having another 1st rounder next season was better.

I feel like the only QB hue had any real decision on was RG3, and that was only because it didn't cost anything to take a flyer on him. if there was actual value being risked, Sashi wouldn't had let that fly. but last season was designed to be a throwaway season from the jump.

I know people don't like Haslam, but in the offseason, i really hopes he makes sure that Hue is more involved with getting the QB in the draft, either by way of directly ordering it, or hiring a football guy to be president.

There's a difference between who's the better athlete and who's the better QB.

i agree. the problem is that Lamar is the better in both categories.

and better in the W-L column.

If Wentz were here and his record were worse, would it mean he wouldn't be a good QB? Often times your supporting cast has a lot to do with your record. It doesn't change how talented a guy is. If you think the record is that important, you might wish to go back and look at the records of Charlie Frye and Manziel when they were in college.

I think Kessler is a Hue-type quarterback. I'm not sure who "picked" him, I definitely can speculate and we all have our theories, but Hue's #1 sought after quarterback trait is accuracy. That's Kessler in a nut shell.

Manziel had the talent. What he didn’t have was the maturity.

Lamar’s supporting cast isn’t the greatest, either. So the argument could easily be made that if you gave each the same supporting cast, Lamar will come out on top.

While you may believe that, I disagree. Rosen has all of the qualities that great NFL QB's have. Lamar comes from a typical college system that gives you very little evidence of how that will transfer in the NFL.

Right, all you did was say that you believe Rosen is nfl ready over Lamar.

Rosen could be great, he could also be just like all the other QBs you have fell in love with because they look the part.

He could be Tom Brady, he could also be matt Leinart. No one knows, but based on college career, I’ll go with Lamar having more success than Rosen.

He can make every throw since he has an nfl arm, with Michael Vick agility. Rosen is a statue in the pocket, and doesn’t have very good pocket awareness, ya know, the opposite of having all the nfl qualities.

As much as I've advocated for everyone to stay, I don't think Hue is here next year.

Jimmy hates to look bad. I thought Banner made him look bad firing Chud and having no plan in place for a replacement while other teams were landing their HC, we couldn't. I thought Farmer made the organization look bad by texting to the field to play Johnny, hence Shanahan's "let me go" letter. I think Hue is making the Browns look bad because he's going behind the scenes dropping emails to his media friends about things within the organization. We've heard nary a peep about what goes on in Berea until now when all these voices are now saying Hue wants this, Hue can't win without that... I don't think this bodes well for Hue.

At 1-15 or 0-16, he is definitely gone. And all the Hue supporters will scream "scapegoat" while completely ignoring the notion that Hue might not actually be a good head coach. This is not to say the front office remains, but I believe they'll get their 3rd year. Hue still has a chance to remain, but he'll need to win a few games...

You mean like Carson Wentz? For all of your huffing, you might want to make a list of prototypical style QB's that have been great NFL QB's and those with Lamars style that have made great NFL QB's. Then get back to me.

Michael Vick, Warren Moon and who?

I think you might be missing some of the qualities involved. He has some of them, for sure. All of them? Not so sure.

Typical college system?

What exactly is the "typical" system?

Petrino ran one of the more NFL-styled offenses for forever. He's expanded his playbook to take advantage of Jackson's talents, but the "NFL" base is still there.

Link

j/c


Listening to Hue in the press conference today, he was asked if the plan was working. He essentially avoided the question and said for the media to decide, and that his job here is to coach... Yet, here's this report that Hue wants more say in personnel matters.

Something isn't adding up. I think Hue is toast.

We've been through the list before in this section of the forum dealing with mobile QB's and their success rate.

Wentz also is a mobile QB. Rosen is a prototypical QB because he will stand there and take hits when he has lanes to take off.

Wentz is an athlete who will take off at a moment's notice.

the prototype QB era is almost dead. Tom Brady and Eli are all that is left. Rivers hasn't won, carson cant stop getting injured, cutler is trash, Mike Glennon got benched, Bortles is trash, who else have i missed?

every other QB has mobility. Carr, Winston, Newton, Big Ben, Stafford, all will take off at a moment's notice.

And Lamar jackson is also 6'3. he's skinnier because he's a better athlete, but he has the height and will get the weight.

so it appears that your definition of "prototypical" is different than what the modern version is. if you want the outdated version, then sure, go get Rosen, and watch him get smacked in the pocket all day because he can't move within it. if you want Rosen, lets just go get Glennon instead. or maybe see if Leinart will come out of retirement.

but regardless, i like Lamar, but i think for hue's style of offense, Lamar is the better fit than Rosen. i think rosen will have a decent career in the nfl. i just think Lamar's will be better.

Screw Hue. Now he is pointing fingers when he has had a voice, expecially on QB's all along. If that guy stays a head coach, it might take mim 30 years to get back to .500

Stylistically, I think Wentz is closer to Jackson than Rosen.

I'd add Cam Newton and Russell Wilson to your great QBs with Lamar's style list. Watson is looking like he could be another.

Next question, who were the last great pro-style QBs to come out?

College isn't the only place trending toward mobile QBs.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Scribbles in my Cleveland Browns notebook after their 19-7 loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars on Sunday at FirstEnergy Stadium:

1. Browns VP Sashi Brown and several of his scouts were in Los Angeles to watch Saturday's USC-UCLA game. It was a scouting paradise for NFL teams looking at college quarterbacks. USC's Sam Darnold and UCLA's Josen Rosen were rated 1-2 by most scouts.

2. ESPN's Mel Kiper has Rosen as his top college quarterback. Other draft experts like Darnold. USC was a 28-23 winner, but Rosen looked like the better pro prospect. Especially impressive was Rosen dealing with all the adversity. UCLA's offensive linemen jumped offsides on several plays. Receivers dropped passes. The Bruins are not a good team. In fact, coach Jim Mora was fired after the game.

3. So I give Rosen lots of points for poise. I also like how he operated in a pro-style offense at times, taking snaps directly under center. He made several long throws dropping back, faking to his running back and then finding a receiver down field.

4. Darnold is an accurate passer (65 percent), but a guy who throws a lot of interceptions -- 21 in 25 college games. He is a better runner than Rosen. But he operates mostly out of the shotgun, college-style offense. So far, I prefer Rosen. I also think Rosen would fit into Hue Jackson's offense because the Browns coach likes to throw deep down the field.

5. I know, Jackson could be gone. And the front office could change by the 2018 draft. But I also know the Browns need to use one of their two first-round picks on a quarterback, regardless of how DeShone Kizer plays the rest of the season.

6. This was a rough game for Kizer. The Browns gave him no support in the running game. Why Jackson keeps giving the ball to Isaiah Crowell rather than Duke Johnson is a mystery. Crowell had 18 yards in 11 carries. Johnson had 10 yards in two rushing attempts. The longest run of the game for the Browns was 10 yards ... by Kizer.

7. In the fourth quarter, Kizer lost two fumbles while in the process of being sacked. He also threw an interception. In my game column, I wrote about him having four turnovers -- two interceptions, two fumbles. I received some emails about Kevin Hogan getting another chance. Please, let's not go there.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/11/cleveland_browns_postgame_scri_23.html

Hue should ask Mike McCoy if he wants to join the staff, kinda an audition for the OC spot next season.

Hue Jackson refuses to say the Browns' plan is working: 'I really don't want to get into that'

Updated 3:47 PM; Posted 3:40 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=96&v=m15q3HTR3GQ

BEREA, Ohio -- Hue Jackson couldn't bring himself to endorse a rebuilding plan on Monday that's resulted in an 0-10 record this season and 1-25 since last year, second-worst start for a coach in NFL history.

"I really don't want to get into that,'' said Jackson, when asked if the plan is working. "Again, I think you guys are the best judges of that right now. I think everybody speculates on it. This is what I want to do -- I want to coach our football team to get better. My job is to do everything I can to help these players, these coaches be the best they can be and obviously with a 1-24 record, or whatever it is, it's not been pretty good, so that's where I'm going to continue to put my focus.''

Jackson, who was invited to a meeting that Jimmy and Dee Haslam conducted last Monday with about 12 players on the leadership council, stressed that it's not his place to evaluate the plan, one that involved a teardown that he was never told about when he was hired.

The Plan, of course, somehow let Carson Wentz, who's now 9-1 and an NFL MVP candidate, and Deshaun Watson slip through the Browns' fingers in the last two drafts.

"I don't think the plan that's in place, let me say this, my job is not to say it is or isn't (working),'' he said. "My job is to coach the football team, that's what I was hired here to do. I wasn't hired here with a plan. I was hired here to coach this football team and get them to be the best I can get them to be and that's what I want to concentrate on.''

Pressed to elaborate, Jackson stuck to his guns.

"I'm not interested in talking about a plan,'' he said. "I don't want to talk about a plan. I want to talk about our football team and coaching this team and getting them better.''

He continued, "That's my attitude and my attitude's not going to change. I'm going to keep telling you the same thing. And I'm not mad at you, I'm not mad at anybody in this room, but I'm not talking about no plan. I'm talking about coaching our team. That's all I'm going to do.''

He said the players don't press him on what the plan is and where it's going.

"They ask me about 'what do we got to do to win, Coach?' That's it,'' he said. "So I do everything for those guys. There hasn't been a player that wanted to ask me anything about a plan, other than what's the gameplan for the week, that's it.''

He said whatever the players wanted to know about the plan, "that was answered by ownership the other day. You guys mentioned the meeting. So whatever that was that they were feeling, I think that group feels better about where they're headed and what we're trying to accomplish.''

Despite the fact Jackson didn't want to discuss the plan, he assured folks there is one.

"I'm very appreciative that Dee and Jimmy would talk to the players about what they feel, what they see and what they want,'' he said. "I will say this to all involved, that there is a plan in place and they want to win and they expect this organization to win and for it to be better. And they're going to get it that way. I truly believe that with all my being.

"It's hard right now for all involved, and people don't get it. I get all that, too. And it's hard for me, it's hard for our players, hard for everybody. But at the same time, when management tells you that we're going to do this and we're going to get there and here's a plan, then that says a lot. And it was very appreciative, I think, from the players.''

Jackson, who believes he still has the full support of the Haslams, acknowledged that 1-25 is tough to take. What's more, the Browns set a new futility record on Sunday with the worst 47-game stretch in NFL history at 4-43. Under the Haslams, the Browns are 20-70 since agreeing to buy the team in 2012.

"I'm not running from this, it's part of my arrival. And it p--ses me off,'' he said. I'd be the first to tell you that. I never envisioned this in my life, being 1-25 as the head football coach. I don't wish this on anybody. It's not what I want it to be. It's not what the players want it to be. It's not what Dee and Jimmy want it to be.

"It's not what anybody here wants it to be, but we've earned this. I'm going to say it again, whatever record we have, we have earned in this organization. And the only thing we can do is do everything in our power to change it. And that's what we have to do.''

Jackson added, "Guys, things aren't great. Let's be honest. When it's one (victory) like it is, I'm not going to run from that, but I'm not judging the plan, I've got to coach.''

First thing I must admit is that as time has moved on since I gave up my season tickets (3 seasons ago, I think) I have paid less and less attention to the Browns. But I still watch them on TV every Sunday so I'll throw in my 2 cents worth here.

I was very happy when they hired Hue. Here was a guy who would lead us out of the forest of losses into the promised land. Maybe not right away, but sooner rather than later. I was less thrilled by the FO but I didn't think they were the dunces that some on here immediately labeled them to be.

Fast forward to now. My conclusions are similar to Mourg's, I believe. I have never called for the dismissal of a coach but I now think Hue must go. Too many head scratching play calls. Too many bad TO/time mismanagement decisions. And now he's "leaking" items to the press that always make it seem he's either helpless in a sea of FO incompetence or has no say in any personnel decisions. Has the FO screwed the pooch on more than one occasion. Sure. But, honestly, the only position that they've continually botched selections is the QB. And if you believe what you read from reliable sources Hue was was more than OK with pretty much every one of those decisions.

Hue is in the "save yourself" phase of his coaching career here. And I can't blame him for trying to subtly lay blame anywhere he can. But it's not a pretty sight and it's not all that subtle either.

At season's end I fully expect our record this year will be 1-15 again (yes, I am an optimist). I fully expect Hue to be fired. And I expect Haslam to bring in a "football man" to head up the FO. Who will that be? Not a clue. I know who I'd like. But that's for another thread and another day.

I don't like the idea of starting over with a new coach, and I want to make clear I am not advocating his dismissal but I fear you may be right. In addition to the causes you stated I can't help but feel a better head coach would have found a way to win a few games and not lose a couple others. Even with the lack of talent.

Again, I am not on the "Fire Hue" bandwagon and I really want to see what 3-4 years of continuity will bring, but I would certainly understand the reasoning behind moving on from him.

Having said that, I do see progress and have great hope for the off season.

Good to see you Otto!

I am sure Andrew Berry was responsible for Hue calling timeouts in close games only to challenge the play 3 seconds later wasting 2 timeouts.

I bet Sashi texted Hue and told him to run the read option with his injured QBs.

hell maybe Dee asked him to completely abandon the run in every game except for the one in which your RB cant gain a damn yard in.

Sorry but trying to protect his own ass and using his kid to do it is about as pathetic as it gets. He is a worm.