DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Haslam Decision Time

See, that's the thing. Or "A" thing. We see stats from Montana, Manning, Aikman etc, from there rookie years. Not good.

But here, in Cleveland, we want to tar and feather a rookie for not having a good year at age 21, with no receivers to speak of, and not a good running game.

And in the past, the haters got what they wanted: A new qb to ruin, a new coach, etc.

Is Kizer the answer? I don't know, and neither does anyone else. I will however, guarantee this: Keep throwing new guys out there year after year, you'll see the same results.

I don't know. I am pretty sure Kizer doesn't have it.


Good QB's show something. They have a WOW! factor.


OK, I suppose Kizer has a wow factor....a different kind of wow.

Yet he still looks better than Goff did last year.

I don't know if he is going to be the guy either, but I do so some qualities in Kizer that I haven't seen in the dozen or so QB's we've tried before.

Their first draft, they needed draft capital. More picks far outweighed their evaluation at the time. Philly was in the position to make that move, we weren't.

The FO still not only has the opportunity to get it right, they will have their pick from a very deep class and will still have plenty of capital left over (draft & cap) to surround the QB with playmakers and still finish building the team.

If you view it through the lens of being 2/3 of the way through a three year building plan (or 1/4 of a 4) instead of through the lens of oh my god they blew a sure pick first year on the job, then you can see perhaps they did earn their pay. The jury is still out. However, if they blow it all up we'll never know.

JMHO

You could be right, but Goff was a much higher rated prospect. Not that those ratings are always right, but the football scouts are usually pretty good at judging talent. The deal with a QB, or any player for that matter, is it is hard to judge heart and desire. That's why guys like Montana were 3rd rounders and Brady a 6th rounder.

I hope it all pulls together for the kid. I really do. I just don't expect that to happen. I don't think Flattop has it.

A winless team is not "almost there" Whats the excuses we've been hearing the last 2 years? the team is young and inexperienced. Add another batch of rookies and next year we'll still have the same problems.

A front office that put together a team to win 1 game in 2 years hasn't earned anything. Seeing as they are not willing to spend a high pick on a QB, I don't trust them to handle next years draft at all.

Pit, don't waste your breath w/those guys. The same guys who question every move Hue makes and even resort to making crap up are the same ones who freak if anyone dares question any move the FO makes.

Yeah, Vers is running out of us's in his us vs them fight.

Personally, I think Jimmy keeps Hue. I think this big meeting he had with the team and leaders etc. confirmed that they all feel Hue needs to stay and they believe he is the guy. What I don't know about is the FO. Bitonio said "it will all eventually come out in the wash". Hue was at the meeting but, Sashi nor any of the FO people were. I think there will be a big change and I feel like Haslam will bring somebody in with the understanding that Hue is THE coach. Maybe that somebody is Peyton? Who knows. But, my gut tells me Hue stays.

I hope you are right.

I want to expound on that.

Hue is highly thought of w/the players. I kinda doubt that Sashi and Depo are.

Firing Hue and keeping the FO together surely won't sit well w/the players.

Furthermore, if we want to attract FA's, Hue is the only thing we have going for us other than money. I would venture to say that the FO doesn't have a good rep w/most players in the league due to how they have handled contract negotiations w/our past free agents and how they have uncermoniously dumped vets like Haden, Whit, Dansby, Kruger, Greco, Gabriel, Robertson, etc.

Agreed. Players love the guy.

Yes, he has made plenty of mistakes too. But, at the very least we give him one more year and shake up the FO with people with FB knowledge (Manning?). Maybe keep on some of the analytic gurus but, in a different capacity. Give Hue more say/power in personnel and then see what happens. If there is significant improvement it will be obvious what the problem was the past couple years (Sashi calling the shots). If we are still floundering then it makes more sense to pull the plug and start from scratch. Jimmy and Dee can bring somebody in and say to them this is the stipulation...this is the deal. He has 53 players that all want him to coach them and the Team Leaders, in particular, are incredibly strong voices in his court. Any GM who refuses that just exposes their own egos that maybe arn't the right guy in the first place. When your team is 1-25 or whatever we are then there is no time for egos. In fact, it's a time to be humble and get on with the work that needs to be done. But, Peyton could be the perfect pairing with the FB minds of Jackson and Williams.

GREAT POINT ARCH ....

Your 100% correct .. just look at all the PRO BOWLS and SUPER BOWLS are ex QB’s have gone on and played in .... ...

I’m not even sure any of them have left here and been ever marginal starters ...

Rosen will be our 1st pick

I'm calling BS on all this.

You say this is no time for egos but then you're giving in to allow Hue have more power? Oh geez.

I'm sure there are players that will be unhappy if Hue is fired, but 1) players are tired of losing, 2) I'm sure not every player is "high" on Hue and 33) a lot of these players weren't here 2 years ago so although this feels like a never-ending carousel for us, this will be the first HC firing for a lot of the players.

There's no evidence if the free agents from a year ago signed because of Hue. "He's the only thing we have going for us other than money?" Um, no, not buying it.

I also love how we supposedly have a front office who doesn't know what they're doing, but in theory giving Hue, a coach, more power will solve everything? Didn't we already try that with a guy named Mike Holmgren?

And I absolutely LOVE that how at 1-25 Hue isn't to blame for the record! We must give Hue more power! Holy moly! What are you guys trying to do? Send us into an eternal death spiral?

We are a lot closer than you think. We get a real quarterback and you'd see.

Our front office has made a lot of good picks and built up our 3rd year draft with a lot of early picks. I'd say they've earned.

They are willing to use a high draft pick on QB and they will next draft.

Not arguing so much as seeing this a little differently. From a personal perspective, I think we are closer than we have been with Thomas playing. I analyze a bit by reduction, by subtraction. We have piled up a number of losses, and a number of them have major factors that have become common denominators unifying them. Failing to correct these help us lose; fielding the same players who repeat mistakes weekly without eliminating or jacking up their play assures ongoing losses. I know it is windy.

How do losses get seen? If we eliminate certain play: Taylor's corner is a go to for needed conversions, for example. Penalties are extreme. Turnovers, strip sacks. Drops. QB is not an upgrade; it is a need. And it is not needful for it to be hugely effective, but I am willing to risk it. If you look at this season objectively with less insane turnovers, picks, blown tackles, better ST play, we are closer. WE need to cash in a draft with a talent czar. We do not need to burn it to the ground, but we need to change, not tweak, the process the Haslams have allowed and installed. The scope of this install has to presume it will need tuning. But it is not all rotten; it needs to see who not being on the field may avoid giving us losses relentlessly. We don't change much in game approach. Hue needs an OC to call the game until clock failures get better.
This is abstract, I know. But a few factors are common repeatedly. Blame the group and coaches and FO and everybody and my mama is buzzspeak for interviews. Team sport = team loss. Change some stuff to change outcomes. This can assist in the search as far as what to look for. If something is hurting you repeatedly, then it has been overlooked or ignored.

I think that what you just posted could be said on almost all the regimes we had so far.

Talented team - if we had talent we would not be 1-25. None of the previous Talent has ever come true, and for the looks of it, neither this regime (3 of the 4 1st round picks are average at best)

Lots of picks on the next draft - what is the use of draft picks if we cannot draft.

In the end, our team is young but lacks talent on almost all skill positions, but also lacks one of the most important things in a winning team, a good coach.

Hue is just a mediocre coach, he will accomplish nothing in here.

I can agree with that. Hue is a nice guy. He isn't a task master like some coaches. Of course the players like him.

Now to the real deal here...Haslam is between a rock and a hard spot. If he makes a change at the coaching position, lot's of what you say are on the mark. If he makes changes in the FO, the new guys are going to want their own coach.

So, I think we change nothing, or we change everything. I have come to the conclusion you can't change one without changing the other.

The only change that might be made is to bring in a new decision maker on player selection, or to change Berry. Here is the deal i am not sure of, maybe you know. Did haslam simply give Sashi the responsibility to be the tie breaker on roster decisions, or is that written in to his contract? If it's in his contract, Haslam may not be able to make that change unless sashi agrees. Otherwise, he may have to release Sashi. Or, promote him to team President. Probably a position he would excell.

I think we have the right people on the team. We just don't have them in the right positions.

Just ranting here...we focus on Sashi and Depo a lot, but not much has been said about Berry.He is the least impressive to me. What did he do so well in Indy? We might need to improve on his position.. He's the football guy in the room. Pretty weak IMO. He needs to be the big voice in the draft room, but I get the feeling he is a wallflower.

I don't think Depo says much other than lay out the metrics on various players and says all points to him being good or it points to he isn't going to be all that good. I think it boils down to Berry taking sides with Pauls info or Jacksons wishes.

I can't imagine Sashi going against the wishes of both the football guy and coach.

As for the roster, I can see him do that some. It gets down to the strategy. If this makes any sense, a player cut might be more valuable to the team over a guy we keep, but the guy we keep is more valuable to the team from an assets standpoint a few years down the road...again, it's hard to explain.

This whole thing is just numbing because there really isn't a best road to take, at least in the short term. It's probably best to keep it as it is, if it turns, great. If we are 1 and whatever at the bye next year, cut Jackson, then cut the FO at the end of the year.

Maybe, but the most recent of regimes can't boast about a top 10 defense.

You don't think Coleman is talented? You don't think Duke is talented? You don't think Gordon is talented? You don't think Njoku is talented? This is probably the most talented team we've had in Cleveland since 1999 and we are going to be even more talented after next years draft.