we haven't been running the ball well overall. the last few games yes, but at the start, it was really bad.
also, while Kizer does have a lot of attempts, part of that has to do with his missing on 1st, 2nd, 3rd downs due to his inaccuracy.
he has stalled a ton of drives all on his own. at some point, kizer has to be expected to make a simple throw. he can't even do that consistently.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I’m sure there reffering to Hue letting it be known before the game that JG was not going to be on a pitch count and that he had designed MULTIPLE PLAYS to get the ball in his hands ...
Thats another WART on HUE ... that’s MORONIC ... ....
Seeing Gordon out there was great. Having Hue put together a game plan that featured the pass was moronic. I don't like bashing Hue, but that was B.S., particularly in light of the success we'd had running the ball the prior week. And feeding the press the decision, if he did, was
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
I am not sure Kizer has the mental ability to match his physical ability. He just doesn't seem to see the field well or process fast enough. He definitely isn't accurate enough at this point.
You take the best QB in the draft and don't look back IMHO. IF Kizer works out you can always make a trade later.
But a young mobile QB with a strong arm....
If he can get it right, he would be one of a kind.
Sure worth to take a risk, IMHO. You just have to sit him for 2 3 seasons and see how he pans out...
I'm with you on the drafting a new QB, but please don't throw away Kizer.... we don't need to.
Oh, I agree that I would not throw Kizer out. I would keep developing him to be sure. Before the Draft I said he would need a good 2 years to get up to speed. I just doubted the Browns roster would survive that long. Still we have him now and we can carry 3 QBs. I draft a top pick, keep Kizer on the bench unless he awakens, and always have a project guy we are working on. Just like NE does.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Seeing Gordon out there was great. Having Hue put together a game plan that featured the pass was moronic. I don't like bashing Hue, but that was B.S., particularly in light of the success we'd had running the ball the prior week. And feeding the press the decision, if he did, was
After re-watching the game, I agree.
I was pissed at Kizer on game day, but I'm re-watching thinking, "Okay, so the genius head coach put together a game plan revolving around a rookie QB having immediate chemistry with a receiver he's practiced with for only two weeks against the NFL best secondary?"
Every fan said it until blue in the face prior to the game - We have to run the ball against them. That's our best chance. Yet, again, Jackson didn't run the ball.
Hue Jackson isn't a coach worth retaining if he's dependant on his quarterback. A good quarterback can make any coach look good, but it takes real skill for a coach to be able to navigate his way around struggles and put his quarterback in flattering positions.
While it was nice to see Gordon getting open, that was Josh Gordon. He wasn't schemed open, he's just elite and gets open. The same with Njoku's flashes. In fact, that touchdown got open against all odds. It should have been obvious the deep seam was vulnerable. Perhaps they didn't think Kizer could hit that pass. Who knows. But in spite of our struggles, it was another game that didn't have me thinking, "You coach put together one hell of a script."
We can cross our fingers that this issue is something that will pass for Kizer. It has only been twelve weeks, and he's a rookie. But we've put up with two years of this from Hue Jackson. He is the only coach during this period of time that hasn't had me impressed with his approach and plan.
I am not sure Kizer has the mental ability to match his physical ability. He just doesn't seem to see the field well or process fast enough. He definitely isn't accurate enough at this point.
Would you be interested in discussion Kizer's play in more detail? (Honest question) I know some like to post their opinions as fact and keep it moving. And if that's the case that's fine...but I was curious what you mean by seeing the field well.
Playing 'in rhythm' is the area I would like to see Kizer improve. When a QB gets to the top of their drop I want to see the ball come out. And if the ball doesn't come out I want to see them get to their next progression with a sense of urgency and with command in the pocket. i.e Keep their feet alive, don't drift, if need be hitch-reset then throw.
All of which sounds easy enough on paper but much more difficult when a QB gets to the top of their drop and the #1 option isn't open. Or the route depth is so great that the pocket begins to collapse before the WRs finish their routes. Or the QB never gets into a sense of rhythm because the WRs are constantly rotating in and out of practice and games and the QB never really builds a rapport for where/how a given receiver is going to run a given route on a given play or even knowing which receiver is going to be in the game on a given route on a given play. There is nothing worse then calling a play and knowing where the receiver is supposed to be then getting to the top of your drop and that receiver not being there.
Kizer can make some incredible throws when his reads are well defined and playcall/receivers get open. Even back in college. When throwing from play-action he was great. When the he threw the ball on rhythm at the top of his drop very few QBs can match his arm.
But when things don't line-up for Kizer or any rookie QB the whole process suffers. Accuracy suffers. Decision making suffers. Poise suffers. Imho the other factors around Kizer fail more often then on most other NFL teams which makes it much harder for him to function.
Kizer has certainly missed some throws he should hit. Especially last sunday. But when looking at the whole of his season with the talent that he's had around him I can't blame it all on him.
I certainly don't blame it all on Kizer to be sure. I also tend to give a pass to all rookies in general since they have to be retrained all over again.
What worries me most is that he gets hung up sometimes and can't make decisions. I'm also worried that he lacks consistency in his throwing motions and footwork which leads to his bad ball placement at times.
I think he has trouble seeing enough of the field at one time and this could be a deal breaker. The more often you are looking to go deep the narrower you field of vision becomes. As your vision narrows your brain will delete things from your vision. As an example in simple mechanics try this experiement:
Hold out both hands and form a circle with your fingers and thumbs. Now look at something in the distance and concentrate for a few seconds. Then try to read a sign next to it. You will instantly have blurry vision until your eyes unfocus and refocus. Another fun way to test this is to set up a series of orange cones with objects on them. Put the cones in a 10 yard grid of say 5 cones deep and 5 wide. Have a friend call a target cone(have them numbered). You will focus on that cone while holding your hands in a circles and looking through that circle at the cone. Then have your freind call out an object to find and time how long it takes you to find it. You will find that the further away the cone that you were focused on was the longer it will take you to find the called out object.
That is how you measure a player's field of vision and ability to see the field quickly. It's one of the single hardest things to improve in a player and almost no coaches work on it because of that. One of those you're either born with it scenarios. It can be improved though much like a hunter can learn to see things much more clearly in a field by not looking so deep into the forest.
You will notice during the experiment that when you look at the closer cones first that you have a broader perception of what is on the cones and find objects faster. Things will be a little less blurry outside of the circle your fingers make. To stop memorization from speeding things up make sure to have the objects randomly changed around every 2-3 tries or so.
I think Hue has Kizer trained too much to look for the deep ball and it's hurting his ability to see and read the field in the short to mid game. I think Kizer has trouble adjusting his field of vision quickly enough for NFL game speed. I don't know if he will get better at it but I honestly doubt they will even work on it.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
I saw examples of beautiful route trees that got guys open. I will even provide an example or two to offset the takes some of you are fabricating.
1. We flooded zones. We ran a guy deep down the left sideline. We ran a crossing route w/the inside receiver. We then ran a drag w/our TE from the opposite side and it broke wide open. Brilliant design.
2. I will provide a video of this one. As you watch, check out how Gordon breaks free in the deep right side of the field. Notice how he draws attention from both the corner and the safety. Notice how he is open anyway. Then note the 2 receivers who are running shorter routes to the same side of the field which helps move the D to that side of the field. Then, take a look to the offensive left side and not that a receiver is in the short zone who has to be accounted for. Then, check out Njoku running w/single coverage down the left seam.
It's a brilliant use of a very complex route tree. It worked to perfection because it was executed and was as good of a design as you could possible want.
I let a lot of things slide on here when it comes to play calling, but people are getting beyond ridiculous. I have a feeling that most of you don't have a clue about play design and play calling, but regurgitate crap that you hear or read. That's all fine and well, but when people use false narratives and cliches to call for a good coach to be fired, I feel the need to speak up!
I want to add on to the previous post. While people are making crap up about Hue forcing the ball to Gordon, I want people to check out the video and answer who was the primary target on that play?
Also, if Kizer was truly reading the coverages, who was more open, Njoku or Gordon?
Again, I am okay w/people being uneducated about play design and play calling. Those things are not important in the grand scheme of things, but when people maliciously slander a man's name and call for him to LOSE his job, that is going way, way too far.
I see the agendas on here. Some protect the FO no matter what. Others protect Kizer no matter what. And what you are doing is despicable! I am not calling for the FO to be fired or Kizer to be cut, but damn it..........please stop making things up and trying to get a man fired. Wishing ill on a person who has never done a damn thing to you and resorting to making things up to accomplish that quest is beyond lame!
If you so called re-watched the game, I guess you did not see where the Chargers were basically daring Kizer to throw. They were locked up in alot of man coverages with a stacked box. Or when we did run, we would end up in 2nd and long. At a certain point, Kizer has to make the reads and throws.
I want to add on to the previous post. While people are making crap up about Hue forcing the ball to Gordon, I want people to check out the video and answer who was the primary target on that play?
Also, if Kizer was truly reading the coverages, who was more open, Njoku or Gordon?
Again, I am okay w/people being uneducated about play design and play calling. Those things are not important in the grand scheme of things, but when people maliciously slander a man's name and call for him to LOSE his job, that is going way, way too far.
I see the agendas on here. Some protect the FO no matter what. Others protect Kizer no matter what. And what you are doing is despicable! I am not calling for the FO to be fired or Kizer to be cut, but damn it..........please stop making things up and trying to get a man fired. Wishing ill on a person who has never done a damn thing to you and resorting to making things up to accomplish that quest is beyond lame!
Gordon was so open for a TD it was not even funny.
Kizer just doesn't see the field that well.
It was another game we coulda, shoulda won.
A Rogers-less Packers team should be our last chance to win a game beside the steelers to close out.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
If you so called re-watched the game, I guess you did not see where the Chargers were basically daring Kizer to throw. They were locked up in alot of man coverages with a stacked box. Or when we did run, we would end up in 2nd and long. At a certain point, Kizer has to make the reads and throws.
Wow, rude.
1. Sure, stacked box. Almost exclusively in single-high, 11/10/9 within 10 of the LOS. Yet, if you actually paid attention, you'd see they were safeties and not linebackers in on the vast majority of plays. That's why their top 5 in tackles included 2 safeties and 2 corners with their main deep safety having a single tackle and an interception - that interception coming on a play in which Desmond King (CB) and Adrian Williams (S) were playing as outside linebackers. Might explain why three of their starting linebackers had three tackles... combined.
2. Their focus wasn't on the run, it was on the pass. A stacked box isn't actually what kills running plays - it's the run blitzing that typically accompanies the formation. For most of the game, they played drop zones. This is why they only had three sacks - one coming from a blitzing corner who was playing... you guessed it... for a linebacker on 3rd down.
Wait, did you think one of the most dominant pass rushing teams only accidently had three sacks? No. They were dropping in zones all day.
3. When we did run, we had success. In fact, in the first half, the Browns easily moved down the field on short, high percentage throws that accompanied the run until Hue started taking shots like the impatient idiot that he is, while the other team did the opposite because their shots were not working either.
The first four shots Hue Jackson took all immediately followed rushes that went for nothing or a loss. Amazing how he doesn't pick up on his blatant tendencies. Not relevant here, just some added value.
To be fair, we ran the ball decently in the first half, averaging like 5 yards per carry. The D couldn't keep them out before the half, 7-9, and they scored on the opening drive of the second half, so the offense was down 7-16 when they finally got the ball.
Hue naturally had to rush less in that situation, but stop trying to make him seem so damn heroic and shift all blame to Kizer - They stacked the box because Kizer is incompetent and Hue desperately wanted to run but just couldn't do it. No. Not even close.
Hue's valiant knights been using that excuse for two years. Hue quit on the run, as always, at the first sign of trouble, and by the time the pass was stalling, it was too late to try balance out the offense.
4. Poor coaching often blew up our runs. The 4th down play, a hit for a loss on Crowell because Devalve failed on a block, a hit for a loss because Tretter didn't recognize the a Joey Bosa stunt, an early tackle for just a couple because Bosa was left on Devalve while Coleman was tasked with hitting the second level to block the mike, which gave Bosa plenty of space to completely disregard Devalve.
Yet, in spite of what is obviously a poor coaching job from Hue Jackson and several awful blocking assignments, we still averaged 4 yards per carry on the day. It was a terrible job by Hue Jackson to move away from the rush so soon, including both drives in the first half prior to Kizer's touchdown that put us in good position with a couple of great runs that picked up first downs.
5. Anyone want to play a game? We'll call it, "How many times per Browns game I can guess what the play call is depending on the down, distance and formation."
Let us be honest here, Hue is glass and everyone can see though it. The Chargers read him like a book. If you watch the game closely, they knew when they needed to come and when they needed to drop. It was downright freakish. Hue doesn't scare or confuse anyone.
6. Always, always remember - you're basing this loss on Kizer not hitting three deep passes for touchdowns, or at least the two needed to overcome the score line.
Marvin Jones and Matt Stafford are 2nd in the league on deep touchdowns - they've got five in 12 games, which is tied with Alex Smith and Tyreek Hill. #1 is Josh McCown and Robby Anderson with 7 on the year. When you need your 21 year old quarterback, who has known Josh Gordon for a thumping two weeks, to do something no other quarterback in the NFL is doing at a rate no other quarterback in the league is doing, you're being unrealistic about where this thing really went wrong.
7. Most importantly, Kizer was trash, but that doesn't absolve Hue Jackson of his responsibility in this loss. I'll never understand why so many people want to blame ONE person for literally everything. The Browns suck - Is Hue to blame, or Sashi? The Browns lost, is it Kizer or Jackson or Williams or Crowell? No.
Kizer played so bad that my criticism of him got deleted by the mods because I suggested he make sweet, tended, love to himself while we leave in him LA to live out a hopefully short existence. I didn't exactly phrase it quite so kindly.
You Hue Jackson defenders want to blame Deshone Kizer for literally every struggle, but Hue Jackson has played a much larger role in our issues than you'll ever admit - and the sad part is, ya'll know it's true.
Maybe I'm not the one who needs to re-watch the game, because you sure sound like you never watched it in the first place, dog.
I can't believe how many rag on Kizer, as if he should be playing at a much higher level.
Kizer is the youngest QB in the NFL, playing for a team that was torn down to the bare bones one season ago.
Kizer is going to have good games and bad games as he gains experience.
This is the team your front office built..stop looking for scapegoats to blame for their 1-27 record.
Patience...
mac, I am not bad-mouthing Kizer. I haven't given up on him. I think he has a chance.
It just galls me when certain posters make-up stories about "poor coaching" and poor "play-calling" in an attempt to defend Kizer.
That simply is not fair and it is why I pointed out two plays in particular. I did post a video of one of them. I don't see how anyone could even fathom calling that poor design. I wish I could have posted a video of the first pass I described [Devalve is the guy who caught the ball] but I coudln't find a video of it. It was awesome in it's design.
Anyone want to play a game? We'll call it, "How many times per Browns game I can guess what the play call is depending on the down, distance and formation."
It was a well designed play. The other one was even better. Yet, we have guys like BDU running around on here on multiple threads bashing Hue for how poor he is schematically.
I can't believe how many rag on Kizer, as if he should be playing at a much higher level.
Kizer is the youngest QB in the NFL, playing for a team that was torn down to the bare bones one season ago.
Kizer is going to have good games and bad games as he gains experience.
This is the team your front office built..stop looking for scapegoats to blame for their 1-27 record.
Patience...
Well said.
Kizer is rookie QB playing like a rookie QB. Flashes of exceptional talent mixed with inconsistency and down right dumb decisions at times. Nevermind that Kizer is both young and inexperienced.
The only difference with Kizer's perception is the talent level of the team right now.
Kizer is a rookie on a bad team going through a total rebuild.
Reading this thread seems like Kizer is the cause or Hue is the cause of the team's record.
But, most fan's would quickly admit and even trash the WRs and many of the moves the FO has made...yet still blame Kizer/Hue.
It seems like a bit of cognitive dissonance.
I wonder if the Bears are gonna draft a QB with their 1st round pick?
...Hue Jackson isn't a coach worth retaining if he's dependant on his quarterback. A good quarterback can make any coach look good, but it takes real skill for a coach to be able to navigate his way around struggles and put his quarterback in flattering positions.
While it was nice to see Gordon getting open, that was Josh Gordon.
I agree with a lot of your points. I don't think Hue has been producing his best work as coordinator grooming a rookie QB. I've watched teams Hue has coordinated for too long to think that Hue isn't capable of much better.
However; there have been some changes in the Chargers game that he deserves credit for putting in. You could argue and I would agree that he should have pit them in much earlier...but he did have more simple reads/throws in the gameplan. More then I've seen previously (unless I'm just missing them). They threw more slants and shallow crossers then usual:
Simple enough right? Read-option slant.
But sometimes it takes the right player to spark the coordinator gameplan, I'm sure its difficult gameplanning for receivers you don't trust.
It may be more productive for U to do more of the teaching type stuff like this and try and educate all of us as opposed to the “not so nice” approach u use sometimes now ...
I’d much rather see u guys insulting each other over discussions about route trees than the current discussions your now having ... *L* ....
Seriously ... the video along with the tutotorial u provided was AWESOME ...
Best case it starts some nice debate, worse case I can learn some stuff ...
I think i’m Pretty good with this stuff .. i know theres others way better at it than me .. guys like U and a few others could teach those WILLING TO LEARN ALOT ...
Your very good with this stuff ... I know u don’t have a ton of time .. if Vers does decide to “teach” ... i hope you have the time and willingness to be a contributor ...
IMO your very good at stuff like this ... if we could just get u away from the STATS ... *L* ...
...What worries me most is that he gets hung up sometimes and can't make decisions. I'm also worried that he lacks consistency in his throwing motions and footwork which leads to his bad ball placement at times.
But these are things that happen with rookie QBs....and they're going to happen more often with a rookie QB playing on this team.
Your previous statement:
Quote:
I certainly don't blame it all on Kizer to be sure. I also tend to give a pass to all rookies in general since they have to be retrained all over again.
should apply?
I agree with parts of what you are saying below..
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
I think he has trouble seeing enough of the field at one time and this could be a deal breaker....I think Hue has Kizer trained too much to look for the deep ball and it's hurting his ability to see and read the field in the short to mid game. I think Kizer has trouble adjusting his field of vision quickly enough for NFL game speed. I don't know if he will get better at it but I honestly doubt they will even work on it.
But QBs, even veterans, rarely read the full field. Some concepts are 'mirrored' meaning the exact same routes are being run to both sides. The QB chooses which side to work pre-snap.
Many plays/concepts are half field reads with 1 route 'tagged' on the backside of a play. The QBs chooses which side to work via pre-snap read and goes through the progression on that side i.e. the 'playside' and resets and looks at the backside progression if nothing was open on playside.
I don't think Kizer is physically having trouble reading the field. I think he's having trouble making decisions. And maybe that's the same thing in your eyes. But it goes back to what I said before about dropback, timing and rhythm. And those come with time. And scheme can help. Knowing that young QBs typically struggle recognizing multiple reads in complex coverages.
I think Kizer's play will be elevated with quicker developing well defined/simpler reads and more time with Josh, David and Corey.
Oh, btw...found 2 youtube vids* of the Chargers game if people are interested in a true game discussion of individual plays. 1 is the entire game and another is some dudes breakdown of Gordon.
I get the sense that some in this thread might be game for a more in depth discussion of Kizer....food for thought/discussion.
non-copy righted vids so the can be broken down into gifs of plays.
And that was an awesome play. Especially considering it was the first of the game. Get Kizer and Gordon on the same page early, get Josh back in to the swing of things. Love it. I actually don't think that was an option, but an intended throw knowing the backers would slide with the line and it would open the throwing lane, which is more Hue than Kizer by design.
There are about three or four plays from that game which had an impact. On the same drive, Crowell had a 17 yard run in which Hue, for one of the few times that game, ran out of passing formation.
Forgive how lame this is, but it's the best I can do until I educate myself on actually recording what's on my screen - which would be really cool.
4:51 - 2nd and 13 - This is a pretty pure passing look, in my opinion. Shotgun, three wide. At the snap, Bitonio and Zeitler are both pulling. Drango 'fakes' the defender inside which gives him all the leverage to protect the intended hole. Bitonio swings and takes Bosa while Telfer hits the second level to take the mike. Zeitler swings through to take the outside backer (Note - the mike and outside backer are both safeties. I really wasn't kidding ahhaha) and Crow has a beautiful hole to gash the Chargers.
That is both an exceptional design, and a brilliantly executed play, because it catches the Chargers off guard and everything times out perfectly. My only dislike is that Duke runs that fake end-around which I assume was supposed to scare the defense into thinking RPO, but it only draws a backer that Shon Coleman was supposed to pick up anyway. However, the simple action of bringing Duke around pulls Hayward in tight - with him coming in to the box at the snap, this prevents Crowell from hitting the edge and funnels him to the deep safety for only 17. If Duke is left outside with the corner, Crow might take this to the house, because everything else works.
That's a great play by Jackson. I'll even go one further - following that successful hand off, Hue does a great job calling the RO in which Bosa completely falls for it and Kizer grabs another easy first down. Browns are rolling.
Now consider the play that came before those two.
3:46 - This is some kind of outside fake hand off to the right before pulling back and throwing a bubble screen to the left to Corey Coleman. The success of this play is dependant on two things - Firstly, Gordon coming across Coleman's face to block the CB. Secondly, AUSTIN REITER, who is in at TE, needs fake right, then break off the line to the left and run about 12 yards and get in front of the FS, who never drops deeper than 7 yards off the line of scrimmage and has only about 8 yards to get Coleman. Predictably, that isn't a race AUSTIN REITER is going to win. The play is blown up in the backfield, but Coleman does break the tackle and, somehow, pick up two.
That's my problem with Hue. That is an embarrassingly stupid playcall with an embarrassingly stupid design, and yet a rare glimpse at brilliance follows it. I love Hue Jackson when he's at his best, but so often I find myself feeling that he's not, and the moments that make me love him are few and far between. Hue has some strong moments, I just wish there were more worth pointing out each week.
we've all identified the issues surrounding Kizer.
the big question, especially going into the draft, is if Kizer's issues can be fixed.
i have to constantly remind myself that this is a 21 year old kid. the youngest QB in the nfl.
1. Kizer will be the youngest Browns quarterback to start a game. He’ll be 21 years and 250 days old, edging Bernie Kosar, who was 21 years and 322 days old in 1985. 2. Kizer will be the third-youngest NFL quarterback to start Week 1 in the last 30 years, behind only Drew Bledsoe (21 years, 203 days) and Matt Stafford (21 years, 218 days). 3. Kizer will be the third quarterback under 22 to start Week 1 in the last three years, joining Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, who both did it in 2015. Kizer will also be the eighth quarterback under age 22 to start Week 1 since 1960
Razor brought up a good point about how no QB reads the entire field, but it's Kizer's decision making that is the biggest problem.
what i seen from the Chargers game wasn't the read or the decisions though:
it was his accuracy. for the most part, he made the right reads and the right decisions, he just isn't delivering passes that the WR's can make a play on.
that actually supports Vers argument that the playcalling is fine. which i agree with since the start. no HC who calls his own plays makes the right play call all the time. Andy reid doesn't, the coach for the Rams doesn't, etc. nobody makes the correct play call all the time.
but Hue's play calling hasn't been the reason our offense is stagnant. it's the fact that Kizer will either overthrow, underthrow, lead too much, not lead enough, throw too high, throw too low.
every time Kizer throws a ball accurately, most of the time it has lead to MONSTER plays.
how many times have we seen kizer throw a strike, just for it to be dropped? i'm STILL ticked off at coleman for dropping that absolute DIME of a pass that would've been a TD. Kizer couldn't have thrown a better ball if he was Tom Brady. That pass was the epitome of a perfect pass.
but man, what do you do with a QB who is wildy inaccurate? does age come into play? experience? i mean we've seen Kizer throw inaccurate balls even on passes that are dump offs.
seriously, what the hell is that?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Kizer looks the part, Big, Strong, Great Arm but his continued inaccuracy is forcing the Browns to pick a QB at #1 ... JMHO
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Okay, I have found some examples. But, I am having a hard time getting them to show up on here. I was able to get this one to work.
Let's start by you [and others] telling us what you see. Not trying to make anyone look bad at all. Just trying to set a foundation and focus on what's important.
Oh, btw...found 2 youtube vids* of the Chargers game if people are interested in a true game discussion of individual plays. 1 is the entire game and another is some dudes breakdown of Gordon.
I get the sense that some in this thread might be game for a more in depth discussion of Kizer....food for thought/discussion.
non-copy righted vids so the can be broken down into gifs of plays.
Is it the Voch Lombardi breakdown? I like him. Haven't seen his video yet.
If you so called re-watched the game, I guess you did not see where the Chargers were basically daring Kizer to throw. They were locked up in alot of man coverages with a stacked box. Or when we did run, we would end up in 2nd and long. At a certain point, Kizer has to make the reads and throws.
Then teams all over the league are daring pro-bowl QBs to throw also. Single high cover 1/3 defenses have are used league wide, e.g. Seattle uses them almost exclusively.
I always hope that he would turn the corner somehow and become the exception to the rule (my rule) on accurate QBs. Then he does his 2 steps back.
lets put if this way...give us Rivers and them Kizer. We blow them OUT OF THE WATER. Instead with our QB fortunes its a 19-10 game. that is with an important Kizer INT and Fumble.
My wife knows I dislike Kizer as our QB as I shake my head and say we don't have a chance with him at QB. But while game is being played I root for him. My wife who likes the Browns but loves me and hates the Browns losing. Yells profanities at Kizer with each mistake...lol
So I tell her all he has to do is make a couple of Accurate passes and we are back in this game...Which he goes and does. The pass to Gordon??? and then TD to Njoku 2 good passes. Boom we are back in this. Unfortunately that was all she wrote. Was waiting for that 2-3 connection that could get us another TD...He is the worst QB in the NFL sorry. And I know Stats aren't everything but 47% completion is again not just sub standard in the NFL but Horrific.
Look Kizer just is not naturally Accurate. He has to work hard at it. QBs who have to work hard at it will never be consistently accurate. He has good arm strength and throws a nice ball with spin...he is getting better with his pocket awareness and running. But sorry, he had Coleman wide open on a deep slant and threw it way over his head and behind him. He had Gordon with an inside curl and all he had to do was throw it high and inside...he throws it at Gordon and down low by his ankles. A couple of good throws does not a QB make. Frustrating as all heck.
As mentioned in another thread look at Wentz's deep throw with a defender around his ankles as he separates his upper body from the lower body and just makes a fantastic ACCURATE THROW - that is an example of Naturally accurate. He doesn't have to think about it just play football. Nothing like Kizer.
jmho
some additions.
Tipping the hand on Hue with GORDON...if opposing coaches didn't know that Gordon was our BEST and MAIN WEAPON then they should not be NFL coaches...this was not a SECRET. They placed their best CB on Gordon and he still wiped his butt most of the day!
Kizer biggest from me came on his scamper late in the game (not sure I just remember stopping the clock was important) So he breaks out running to the left about 5 yards from the LOS and all he had to do was throw the ball OUT of bounds 5-6 yards to cross the LOS...Instead he gets tackled low (could have still thrown it while going down) and in bounds so the clock still runs.
Showed me he just is not a NATURAL QB who are aware of those things without thinking...Rookie or not that was just awful and lets face it the kid is no longer a rookie. He has 11 starts under his belt. Well for me that was like the last straw of any hope.
And Hue knows it. The fact that he is starting Kizer for the rest of the season is proof to me that he has been assured of his job security. Hue ain't going nowhere, FO is going nowhere...Kizer is going to the bench and if we get a Vet as well as the drafted rookie. He might be just released!
Oh he will have glimpses of success like the two good passes for our TD.
The kid is the worst in the Red Zone I think I have ever seen in the history of Football...the worst! No clue on his stats.
Only thing he does good is the 1 yard QB sneak on the goal line that is IT!!!
Well next week at least we have a shot as Hundley is pretty bad although at least he is more accurate...well then again EVERY QB is more accurate than KIZER...EVERY!!!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
And that was an awesome play. Especially considering it was the first of the game. Get Kizer and Gordon on the same page early, get Josh back in to the swing of things. Love it. I actually don't think that was an option, but an intended throw knowing the backers would slide with the line and it would open the throwing lane, which is more Hue than Kizer by design.
There are about three or four plays from that game which had an impact. On the same drive, Crowell had a 17 yard run in which Hue, for one of the few times that game, ran out of passing formation.
Forgive how lame this is, but it's the best I can do until I educate myself on actually recording what's on my screen - which would be really cool.
4:51 - 2nd and 13 - This is a pretty pure passing look, in my opinion. Shotgun, three wide. At the snap, Bitonio and Zeitler are both pulling. Drango 'fakes' the defender inside which gives him all the leverage to protect the intended hole. Bitonio swings and takes Bosa while Telfer hits the second level to take the mike. Zeitler swings through to take the outside backer (Note - the mike and outside backer are both safeties. I really wasn't kidding ahhaha) and Crow has a beautiful hole to gash the Chargers.
That is both an exceptional design, and a brilliantly executed play, because it catches the Chargers off guard and everything times out perfectly. My only dislike is that Duke runs that fake end-around which I assume was supposed to scare the defense into thinking RPO, but it only draws a backer that Shon Coleman was supposed to pick up anyway. However, the simple action of bringing Duke around pulls Hayward in tight - with him coming in to the box at the snap, this prevents Crowell from hitting the edge and funnels him to the deep safety for only 17. If Duke is left outside with the corner, Crow might take this to the house, because everything else works.
That's a great play by Jackson. I'll even go one further - following that successful hand off, Hue does a great job calling the RO in which Bosa completely falls for it and Kizer grabs another easy first down. Browns are rolling.
Now consider the play that came before those two.
3:46 - This is some kind of outside fake hand off to the right before pulling back and throwing a bubble screen to the left to Corey Coleman. The success of this play is dependant on two things - Firstly, Gordon coming across Coleman's face to block the CB. Secondly, AUSTIN REITER, who is in at TE, needs fake right, then break off the line to the left and run about 12 yards and get in front of the FS, who never drops deeper than 7 yards off the line of scrimmage and has only about 8 yards to get Coleman. Predictably, that isn't a race AUSTIN REITER is going to win. The play is blown up in the backfield, but Coleman does break the tackle and, somehow, pick up two.
That's my problem with Hue. That is an embarrassingly stupid playcall with an embarrassingly stupid design, and yet a rare glimpse at brilliance follows it. I love Hue Jackson when he's at his best, but so often I find myself feeling that he's not, and the moments that make me love him are few and far between. Hue has some strong moments, I just wish there were more worth pointing out each week.
GP.
If you want to start a thread that takes a closer look at the Chargers game I'm all for it.
Might only be a few contributors but I would be a good discussion.
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![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg)
from me came on his scamper late in the game (not sure I just remember stopping the clock was important) So he breaks out running to the left about 5 yards from the LOS and all he had to do was throw the ball OUT of bounds 5-6 yards to cross the LOS...Instead he gets tackled low (could have still thrown it while going down) and in bounds so the clock still runs.