DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Offensive Coordinator

Naming Al Saunders would only be a slight change and reshuffling of duties.

It would be better then the current situation but not by much. I don't know how familiar you are with the breakdown of coaching duties. But, Al would already be assigned a certain area to prepare. If he were made the OC he would still have to prepare his section in addition to all the OC duties which are vast.

Ideally I would like to add a OC to the staff not promote someone from within. Bring someone in that:

- either knows the digit/Coryell system OR is willing to learn it as opposed to installing their own verbiage-philosophy

- want someone who won't butt heads with Hue; that may limit the pool to OC that are okay with preparing the offensive gameplans, running the meeting/practice etc AND are okay with Hue calling the plays on gameday

- if it was possible to bring in someone with proven experience in producing an effective offense like Norv Turner. But that someone like Norv brings their own complications to an already delicate situation....if the OC is too experienced it provides the GM someone to take over the team IF Hue would be fired. The new OC has to be someone loyal/wouldn't butt heads with Hue

- Here are some of the guys that pop up in my mind that are available:

Norv Turner (can't see someone of Norv's ilk being the coordinator but not playcaller)

Mike McCoy (coordinator, possible playcaller)

Ken Zampese (coordinator only, non-playcaller)

Greg Olson (coordinator, possible playcaller)

Jeremy Bates (coordinator only)

Byron Leftwhich (QB coach)






I posted this earlier from how Bill Walsh's staff was setup:

The simple truth is that Kizer was never supposed to have success. This wasn't a reasonable situation for any young quarterback to have success, much less the guy who fell in the draft because he needed time and development. If he was expected to have success, it was done so with realistic expectations and a disregard for reality.

That's my feeling as well.

The Kizer 'blame' doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense how some have already come to the conclusion that Kizer isn't the guy. Not only was he a rookie...but a raw that most agreed should learn on the bench before playing. Instead Kizer started due to personnel shortcomings. But additionally, again due to personnel short comings, was playing with one of if not thee worst WR corps in the league.

It doesn't help that Hue's treatment of him with the benchings have already diminished the public perception of Kizer, not to mention that Kizer being a 2nd round pick as opposed to a 1st round pick affords him less leeway.

And Hue the HC hasn't done his best work as an Offensive Coordinator gameplanner/playcaller.

But many people/fans have concluded that Kizer isn't the guy.

And Haslam reportedly swayed by fan opinion. And with a new GM in tow that may want their own QB....I get the feeling that Kizer will bear the brunt for this season and they will divert a valuable early pick to the next QB.

The more I think about the more I doubt whether all this is going to work out....Should the same staff that has 'failed' pick the 'next' QB?

I respect your opinion on the various scenarios so I'll leave those for others to ponder. Re; Al Saunders, I would expect someone new (hire and/or promote) to take over the WR coaching duties.

I wonder if we could entice someone like Kevin Sumlin to coach WRs if we bumped Saunders up to OC now with the plan of grooming Sumlin to take over when Al decided to hang them up.

It all adds up. I won't go too far off topic given this is the OC thread, but I do think quarterbacks are significantly dependant on the talent they have around them & their chemistry with that talent, plus their system familiarity.

If Hue Jackson is being held back in his play calling by the talent on this roster, that influences how the quarterback plays. If Hue Jackson has struggled with his decisions in terms of calling plays and drawing them up, which I think he has, that influences how the quarterback plays.

Those issues are only further increased with a young quarterback in a situation like Deshone Kizer.

Jared Goff started 7 games last season - he went 0-7, looked awful in all of them and he looked pretty embarrassingly bad. They made changes, especially to the talent around him, and he's damn near an MVP contender in year two.

I feel bad for Deshone. I think a lot of fans, media and even Hue Jackson have quit on him. Many did early in the season, regardless of how unwilling they are to admit that. But, the struggles around him are real.

If the next guy to come through gets more of the same, then we'd be crazy to expect a different result. Personally, I think that does start with the OC job that is available. Hue Jackson would be wise to add someone who can assist in building the guy up and getting it right, even if we make a veteran addition like Cousins or Smith.

I agree w/this take.

I would rather bring in a WR coach from the outside than bring in an OC from the outside. And we would still have Al to help the WR coach along.

The more I think about it, the more I like Al Saunders as our OC.

Ideally, I would like to see an OC who has previously been a successful QB coach. such as Tom Clements or Alex Van Pelt...

I'd like to see someone who is familiar with Hue. Not too much system change, and a known cohesive unit remains. I feel like any massive changes to the offense will ultimately defeat the purpose of retaining Hue Jackson. For that reason, I like the Al Saunders idea. A lot of experience, will keep Hue's system, and it helps that he's familiar with the players.

ED, on Kizer, I knew he was gonna suck this year especially first 8 or 9 games. He just hasnt had that game exposure thats needed. Hue put to much on him but I felt it could pay off later. We are seeing signs of him beginning to grasp the scheme. its gonna take time and giving him more weapons is gonna help. The kid can play.

As for an OC, Hue has been a fantastic oc everywhere he ahs been . If we can get him the weapons, I am fine with Hue not adding an OC. Someone just needs to remind him that AJ Green, Marvin jones and company arent on this roster yet.

Me too. I just want him to get better at managing a game.

To add a mote: I don't think it can be overstated that the new HC in LA has made a huge difference for Goff.

Mourg, where do you get that from? Hue had only been an OC for 5 seasons before coming here, 1 year in Washington (2003) when Spurrier was forced to hire someone so he promoted Hue from RBs coach to OC and they finished with the 23rd ranked offense and Spurrier and the staff were fired at seasons end, 1 year in Atlanta (2007) for Bobby Petrino and they were the 23rd ranked offense and replaced at the season's end, 1 year in Oakland (2011) before being promoted to HC where he had the 10th ranked offense, and lastly 2 years with the Bengals (2014-2015) and both years they were ranked 15th. If he is such a fantastic OC why hasn't he been an OC longer then 5 seasons and why after losing his OC jobs has he had to take other coaching jobs instead of getting another OC job?

He will now, he needs someone to get get fired....lol


But to the real point, I don't think it will do any good. Hue is a good O-coordinator. He is a bad head coach....what is his record after today?

We should sub the OC for him and a different QB in the red zone. Part of his scheme is dumb as called. I like an OC who may also help with clock management in a variety of ways.

Glad he is staying. Even more glad about the recent hire.

Wonder who our next HC will bring in as OC

Yep, that TD shovel pass from Kizer to Duke was so freaking stupid. Hue is such a dummy!

Now, I will get real.

If it wasn't obvious to some of you who had better play designs and calls today between Hue and McCarthy, then you'll never get it.

So we won the game?

The shovel pass was a beautiful play.



Without someone studying the "play designs" are you indicating here that Hue is a better coach than McCarthy or a better OC? What is it exactly that you are saying here?

I saw McCarthy outsmart Williams, play design or not. McCarthy adjusted after halftime. Williams didn't. McCarthy said I'll just take what you give me. And oh by the way, I've been winning with a terrible QB, and I'm going to beat you today with a terrible QB. And he did.

I don't know what the play design point is, but the name of the game is winning. McCarthy won, Hue didn't. Then again, Hue never does.

Did I say that? I was commenting on our red zone calls. I pointed out one of those calls. Is that a freaking crime?

Look.........I am real sick of expressing my opinion w/a fact and then having multiple posters act like I am out of my mind.

Good God! Stop!

What was wrong with my post? I didn't make a personal attack on you. I was continuing the discussion.

I don't see where you said Red Zone in that statement.

Or was it just one play was better?

It was a very good play. But why did it take Hue till week 13 to get Crow and Duke on the field at the same time?

the 3rd and 2 in overtime.. I really really wanted to put Crow out there and run the ball. That honestly is the only play that bothers me.

I'm on another forum that has fans of all different teams, and lots of Packers complain about the play calling from McCarthy. They even noted that come crunch time today, it was likely Rodgers influencing McCarthy on what plays to call.


That's why I don't get too upset over Hue. Every fan of every team complains bout play calling. It's a part of the game. I saw improvement today on Hue's part. I think we got a little less aggressive in the 2nd half, but rightfully so.

Yeah, a lot of GB fans I know have hated McCarthy for awhile and have dogged his playcalling for his entire coaching career. I guess what's why I never considered him one of the top notch offensive minds in the game.

Norv Turner will never come back here, not after what happened last time with Chud(being told it was a long term rebuild and being canned in less then a year)

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/10223...-rob-chudzinski

Turner was FURIOUS with Haslam...no way he even considers coming back here....

Basically every team has that play in their play book. It's a college play.

Indeed. It reminded me of Tebow to Harvin.

None the less, it was a great call.

Anything that works for this team is a great call.

I could be on board with Al Saunders as OC. But i would worry that it would be more of the same because the delineation of who does what could be very cloudy and could in essence be merely cosmetic and not an actual change.

But, assuming Al were to be the OC and a WR coach brought in i agree it could help. Especially with execution. But ideally would like an infusion of newer concepts to meld with Hue's current scheme and I would like the new coach and Hue to have a dynamic relationship with cross exchange of ideas and philosophy in playcalling.

I want someone capable of doing enough heavy lifting with the coordination piece that Hue has less on his plate and can take a bigger picture view of the offense and have a different vantage to self scout the offense.

I agree with the need and we should get Hue the help for clock management and games. See more upstairs. Not sure I want Norv at all.

But if we hire, the last thing I want is to have a new learning curve. We cannot win with what we do now, adding fresh layers and delays because we made it more complex and different (two different things) can only slow, delay, or prevent success eventually.

Hue needs to honestly change some of what is happening in the red zone IMO.

You have got to be kidding. Hue's offense was shut down in the 4th Qtr & OT. McCarthy's offense was truly stopped one time in the entire second half & OT. McCarthy's plays worked...Hue's didn't. That's all that matters.

Agreed. And to be clear i'm only suggesting bringing in people that already know Hue's verbiage i.e. Digit/Coryell system OR is willing to learn it.

This means the players won't have to learn a new offense. The verbiage/language and playcall mechanism stays the same. The players wouldn't experience any difference in terms of learning the 'offense'.

How can someone compare Hue to McCarthy .....I'll never get it...

McCarthy chewed up Williams in the second half...Hue targeted Gordon twice in the second half. But Hue has some great looking route trees

...

Man, I didn’t know Hue was throwing the ball.