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Thomas Article

Hey, it's a slow news time. I thought this might be a bit interesting...

Mike Lucas: Unsigned, Thomas' patience being tested by Browns

Mike Lucas — 7/24/2007 9:19 am

When Alando Tucker, the leading scorer in University of Wisconsin men's basketball history, began evaluating various sports management teams, he talked with some NBA players who had working relationships with specific agents. One of his contacts was former Duke University guard Jason (now Jay) Williams, whose pro career was interrupted by a motorcycle accident. Williams had nothing but good things to say about BDA Sports Management and that helped sell Tucker on the firm and one of its reps, Kevin Bradbury.

In the end, Tucker wanted to be treated fairly as a person and player. Everything else, he figured, would take care of itself, including his first NBA contract. And so it all has, due in large part to the league's rookie scale. Tucker signed with the Suns less than 10 days after they drafted him in the first round (29th overall). According to the Arizona Republic, Tucker will make $776,600 his first year, $834,900 his second year, $893,100 his third year (team option) and $1.6 million on a fourth year (also team option).

Tucker gained additional financial security prior to the June 28th NBA draft when he signed a shoe contract with Converse. "That was big, that was big,'' Tucker admitted on draft night. "I met with Nike (which oversees Converse) and adidas and we were going back and forth. I just saw myself with the Converse marketing scheme because it provided the best opportunity. It felt good, too, to know that a company was willing to pay me to wear their shoes.''

While Tucker was still at Wisconsin, it was often suggested figuratively that he walked in the same shoes -- which would be the adidas brand in the UW context -- as Outland Trophy winner Joe Thomas, the All-American left offensive tackle. Tucker and Thomas were not only marquee players in their respective sports but they were priceless goodwill ambassador's for the athletic department, the school and the state of Wisconsin.

Upon embarking on pro careers, Tucker and Thomas anticipated being in a state of flux. But whereas Tucker is now working for his employer, Thomas is still unsigned and his NFL career is on hold. A recent headline in the Cleveland Plain Dealer -- "Trouble looms in signing Thomas'' -- spelled it out. A pre-training camp rookie orientation got under way Monday and the Browns were minus their top three picks: Thomas, the No. 3 selection overall in the draft; Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn (No. 22 in the first round) and UNLV defensive back Eric Wright, a second-round pick.

Thomas is represented by Denver-based All Pro Sports and Entertainment. When he was asked about his choice, he cited the role that his agent, Peter Schaffer, played in the decision-making. "One of the big things I really liked,'' Thomas said, "he (Schaffer) respected everyone, no matter how important or unimportant they were in the process. He never wanted anyone to feel like they were being taken advantage of. I think a lot of big-time agents go on power trips after they have big-time clients, but he has never done that. My goal was to find a firm that had top prospects, but yet hasn't turned into a super megafirm where you don't get the personalized service that you're looking for.''

Regarding Thomas and a potential hold-out -- the Browns open training camp on Friday -- Schaffer told the Plain Dealer on June 24, "We have a history of getting clients in on time and we have one (Thomas) that wants to be (signed and in camp). But it takes two to tango and it's only going to happen if a fair contract can be agreed to ... the numbers are pretty clear.''

Schaffer was referencing the contract numbers (the really big $$$) for the three previous athletes drafted in the No. 3 slot of the draft. "As much of a great advantage it was to win the coin toss (with Tampa Bay), we were also aware of the contract situation at that spot,'' Cleveland general manager Phil Savage told the Plain Dealer on Sunday. "It's not a pretty picture in terms of trying to negotiate an offensive lineman versus a quarterback and two top-echelon receivers who were thought to be by many to be the top players in their draft.''

A year ago, the Tennessee Titans drafted Texas quarterback Vince Young in the No. 3 hole and Young signed a five-year deal, with an option for a sixth year, for a reported $58 million, $25.7 guaranteed. Young signed on July 27, thereby avoiding a holdout.

Two years ago, the Cleveland Browns took Michigan wide receiver Braylon Edwards with the No. 3 pick and Edwards, who was represented by Lamont Smith and All Pro Sports and Entertainment (same as Thomas), missed the first 12 days of training camp before agreeing to a five-year deal, reportedly worth $40 million, $20 mil guaranteed.

Three years ago, the Arizona Cardinals used the No. 3 pick to take Pitt receiver Larry Fitzgerald, who signed an outrageous six-year deal, reportedly worth $60 million ($20 million guaranteed). Fitzgerald, who was represented by Eugene Parker, got more than the No. 1 overall pick (quarterback Eli Manning) and the No. 2 pick (offensive tackle Robert Gallery). Fitzgerald ended up missing only two practices. (Parker, it should be noted, is also the agent of the Green Bay Packers' first-round pick, defensive tackle Justin Harrell).

Before leaving the Madison campus, Thomas stressed the importance of showing up on time for his first pro training camp; a sentiment and a commitment that he passed along to his agent. However, such potentially tricky negotiations -- measuring Thomas' worth with skill position players like Young, Edwards and Fitzgerald -- could slow down the process. An avid fisherman, Thomas knows the value of patience, which may serve him well, especially since he's in such uncharted waters.

All I know is that I saw JT a couple of days ago here in Cleveland. Brady Quinn is in town too, which is also a good sign that something will be done here shortly. There are a lot of holdout across the league right now. I hope by the end of the week a deal is done and we can get to playing football.

Good read......not to mention the interest his team will have in the Quinn talks if it comes down to Joe being asked to take a discount from previous #3 picks...

The Browns want Thomas first as leverage on the Quinn talks. The Thomas camp wants the Quinn numbers first to see if they indeed can us that as leverage.

Thomas shouldn't sign first unless the team offers up the standard set for #3 money unless Quinn signs for less than #22 money.


I could be a slow process folks....and be ready to spend a big portion of the cap on these two guys.

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.and be ready to spend a big portion of the cap on these two guys.

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The amount that can be spent for this year is set in stone.

With a maximum contract length of 6 yrs for Thomas and only 5 years for Quinn (I'll put money on it ending up as a 4 yr deal).... the numbers will be big, no doubt, but they won't be bank busters.

If nothing else, they must fit into this years rookie pool, and the year on year salary values cannot increase by more than 25%. That leaves roster/workout bonuses as the only way to beef it up to the astronomical levels, and those only hurt ya for one year.... though I would not be surprised to see a massive roster bonus thrown in for next year (or the year after) and come that time see a restructure that converts it to a signing bonus.

They'll get paid, but they won't hurt any worse than a Bentley or Steinbach at the absolute worst.... probably closer to a Baxter and an Edwards.

Comments that haven't gone unnoticed by the parties that count I am sure..

I can honestly say in the Thomas and Quinn negotiations, from what has been leaked out, the Browns are trying to screw these kids. Thomas wants #3 money, because he was picked there.........imo that's fair. Quinn wants to be paid like a starting QB in years 4 and 5............and imo if he's the starter then he should be. Bro, both of these guys contracts should be done or close to it by now. Give Joe his 3 pick money, and give bonuses in years 4 and 5 so that if Quinn is the established starter and performing well he'll be paid like it. If these guys aren't in on time I got to say the FO is at fault imo, becuase these guys aren't making outragious demands imo.

Quinn's contract should be #22 money with incentives to make it a bigger contract.... Thats just how I see it in a simple mind.

Thomas should get #3 money, I don't care what position he plays, he was picked third.

I agree.......and just to add.....it is this way most of the time....not just with us.....all teams.


Not to say all.....but I rarely blame a player or his agent in a contract dispute. In most cases the players go in with reasonable, market based demands and the teams start hammering away at that point.

Give it a day or two and you will hear the talking heads on the radio or TV talking about guys falling way behind and never being able to catch up this year.

I just hope we would get these guys, all 3 of them, signed very soon.

That's pretty much what both are asking for............and again this is just the info that has been leaked by the media so it could be wrong. However, if the Browns don't want to give Joe 3 money then he shouldn't sign.........if they won't give Quinn incentives to make sure he's getting paid like an established NFL QB in years 4 and 5 (and remember these are incentives IF he's an established starter) then he shouldn't sign. We always dog the athletes and agents for not being in on time, but from everything I've heard (again if accurate) then we are trying to lowball those guys........and if I was their Dad I would tell them not to sign.

We might get Wright soon.

right now they are just holding out a while knowing the browns are going to have to post up some good information pretty soon to sooth the fans.

They will get what they want because the team needs some good PR right now.


Good move by his agent I might add.

I've seen players come in with crazy demands bro..........remember KWII wanting # 1 pick money because several teams having him BPA??? In this instance however, it seems we are trying to see how cheap we can get them, becuase we know both WANT to be in at camp on time so that they can start. We are basically using the threat of a holdout against them...lol.

the nfl needs, in three words: rookie salary cap

Like I said...it is not all....and we are talking the Postons here....those flunkies were decertify.

I am surprised those morons were able to pass a bar exam.

Take it in the context of maybe 80-85%.

Thought this might have some bearing worth discussing:

Lions | C. Johnson likely a holdout
Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:58:35 -0700

ESPNews reports Detroit Lions first-round draft choice WR Calvin Johnson will likely hold out of training camp.

KFFL

Wright signs next...Thomas gets paid big money up front as a signing bonus OK money on the 4 year deal. Quinn gets big bonus money like Thomas but loaded with reachable money triggers and less per year guaranteed.

Thats Just Crazy

This Just Justifies Freeney's Contract Even More

They Dont Need a Cap, They Could Just Slot The Money Per Draft Position

I Cant Even Beging To Think What Thomas Is Going To Sign For

I see it more the guys below Thomas......Our talks could have bearing all around the league.

If Thomas gets last years #3, why would Calvin want less??

Really....why should he want less?? I wouldn't. You wouldn't.

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Um, Bruce needs to remember that he's a LEFT TACKLE. The position that is as rare as a QB in the NFL and a position that Savage has stated is a skill position

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I think it was Savage that said something to the effect that LT can almost be classified with QB and Receiver and RB in terms of being Key positions and Skill positions,,

If I have that right, those words may come back to haunt him.,,,,,

Does Savage Or McCracken Come Up With The Figures?

I'm honestly not sure.

Was Always Wondering Who Sets The Figures, Thanks For The Response..

Wish I could have been more help to you man,,, but I just don't know the answer

Hopefully Someone That Does Know, Lets Us Know

This is what I would do.

Pay Thomas #3 money. We have the room and the $$$.

Sign Quinn to a 3-year deal With appropriate pro-rating of S.B. $$$ at what the #20 - #22 player would get. He would be a RFA at the end of the contract and we could either A) re-sign him at starting QB money if he's our starting QB or B) get a 1st-rounder from somebody else if he's not. He's made it painfully clear he wants to be the QB in Cleveland, and we'd only want to keep him around if he looks like he'll pan out... so why not? He WANTS to be a Brown, and he wants to be fairly compensated. We don't want unhappy players on the team. What's wrong here?

I hate rookie holdouts, but usually they end up meaning next to nothing outside of a guy's rookie year. I just want to see Joe in pads...I want buy his jersey till he signs.

No inside info.....just basing it on where my mind leads me when thinking about the possible angles.

Why not a rookie salary cap, or slots, then like the NBA allow the players current team to match or exceed any offer if they want? So say a luxury tax for busting your cap for your own player, but not to sign someone elses (ie you can't do it....you have to stay within your cap) ?

The NFL already works on a slot sytem of sorts. What usually occurs is a guy gets the money the previous player picked in his slot got....plus 10%. It's been going on like that for years now...........that's all Thomas is wanting the status quo of slot money.

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and be ready to spend a big portion of the cap on these two guys.

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I know you mean overall n stuff...but do u know how much our rookie pool is this year? wonder how much they will have to back load the contract

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However, such potentially tricky negotiations -- measuring Thomas' worth with skill position players like Young, Edwards and Fitzgerald -- could slow down the process.

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Franchise LTs are harder to get than franchise 'anything'.
LT is a skill position, just ask any QB who's had a crappy one. Pay him Phil and stop messing around.

My guess are numbers around these :

Thomas: 7 yrs 60 million 27 mill guaranteed

Quinn: 4 years 13 mill 3-6 mill guaranteed
( I remember Clayton saying that years 3-5 are the sticklers)

i don't think he doesn't wanna pay him...he just doesn't want to over pay him....i don't care how long it takes i think everyone is just waiting for each other to sign so they can sign their player at a fair deal...

Say phil signs Joe before #1 #2 and #4...what if it's higher than the #2 n #1?(prolly not possible since #1 was a QB)