DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Time for Hue to go

J/C

Regardless what Dorsey has said, no way Jackson survives 0-16. What else is Dorsey supposed to say in public? I mean come on!

No way Dorsey takes this job if he doesn't have input on who the coach will be, as other teams were interested in hiring him with the ability to hire his own coach like the NY Giants for example. I believe Dorsey and Haslam have already talked about this privately and will move on at years end.

The kind of personality Dorsey is, he won't stick around if he is forced to keep Jackson against his wishes. If Dorsey is not allowed to bring in his own Head Coach at years end, the guy will flat out resign...he won't put up with it...he has other offers, the guy won't be out of work for long.

If Dorsey ins't allowed to hire his own coach the guy will resign and walk and our organization will look evne more inept then it already does...regardless of what Haslam wants, if Dorsey pushes the issue, he lets Dorsey hire his own coach...its hard to defend 0-16, and siding with a 1-31 HC over your newly hire GM would just make Haslam look like even more of an inept moron then he already does.

If Dorsey wants a new coach, he will get one, or he won't be our GM. that much is pretty simple. He hold all the leverage here, not Jackson.

I don't reply much here cause everybody knows more than everyone else. Just ask them. I've literally seen, via seas tix or tv, every game since the early 60's. During the few blackout games there was always that bar in Old Brooklyn that "pirated" those games so....

Imo no doubt Sashi was here for one reason and one reason only. I'm of the belief he knew it'd be a short time but it was all on the QT.

I only want Hue to stay for a reason and/or question or 3.

1. This team, in 2 years, was gutted "beyond belief". Was that Hue's fault?


2. Guys with virtually no knowledge of the game of football made the/those decisions. Did Hue have ANY say-so and if so, how much and was it valued?

3. How much say-so did Hue have in the last 2 drafts?

4. How much say-so did Hue have in past veteran releases?

5. How much say-so did Hue have in veteran signings?

6. The team got younger in 2016 and the youngest in 2017. With all of our picks next year we could, in reality, get younger in 2018.

7. And finally, one question.
Q. What's that gosh-darn definition of insanity again?

A few things I really want for Christmas from this team are.....

1. An O-Coordinator well versed in Hue's system.

2. Continuity.

3. Continuity.

4. More continuity.

jmho

Merry Christmas Dawgs

Credit to the players for playing hard despite being thrown under the bus by the coaches on a weekly basis.

JC: One of my bigger issues with the idea of firing Hue is that we have to find a Head Coach that will use four linemen as his base defensive alignment.

No need to have Ogbah and Myles Garrett line up as OLBs. That is just something I do not want.

Our D-Line and LBs are set for the 4-3. Given, it's easier for two of our LBs to move to the middle and (Joe Schob to back them up), our defense is built for the 4-3 and I don't want that to change.

Despite what some people might think, we have some good players on Defense. Garrett and Ogbah have shown real promise. Shelton is playing pretty well as the 1-technique. And Big Larry/Coley are good options at the 3-Tech

I definitely don't want any of that to change. We need two more players in the secondary (FS and CB), and then we have to figure out this offense.



I really think a restructuring of the offense with Hue hiring an O-Coordinator is key.



But that's one of my biggest reasons for not wanting Hue gone. This defense does have some "players" on it, and I don't want to risk being stuck switching to a 3-4 scheme. I just don't like the 3-4. It's always been a failure here and we have some decent personnell built for the 4-3

It's like that old Fram filter commercial "you can either pay me now or pay me later" We either fire Hue now or wait til more unprecedented damage occurs and fire him when we are 1-7 in 2018, setting us back another year after he practically destroys our new QB.

First thought was to laugh, of course they'd be better.

But 2nd thought is that it doesn't matter.
What matters is that Hue Jackson "IS" the head coach, he has been the head coach for that last 2 seasons,

And he will most likely be the head coach until at least 45 minutes after the game ends, to finish the season.

If Hue's Browns had gone 4-12, or better, each of the last two seasons, I would see people's point who think things could be better off if he comes back next year.

John Dorsey thinks Hue Jackson will be Browns' coach next season

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21819...kson-coach-2018

New general manager John Dorsey expects and is planning for Hue Jackson to be coaching the Cleveland Browns in 2018, Dorsey said on a radio interview in Cleveland on Tuesday.

"Hue and I have a really good relationship," Dorsey said on 92.3 The Fan. "First off, I think ownership has said that Hue would be back. With that, I'm excited to work with with him here. I've been really impressed with how Hue messages to the player. I've always thought that head coaches should be leaders of men, and when I watch [Jackson] talk to the team and how hard guys play for him, that's exciting.

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"Then we've sat down in the past -- I'm not sure how long I've been here -- but we've had great conversations, and part of those conversations has been about how to build that strategic plan for the 2018 season as well."

Speculation about Jackson increases every time the Browns add to their loss total in an 0-14 season. Jackson is 1-29 in Cleveland, but Dorsey was not buying in to the external speculation and chatter that Jackson would not be back.

"I think ownership has already spoken on that question," Dorsey said, twice, when asked about Jackson's future.

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said the day Dorsey was hired that Jackson will be back in '18 and hopefully for years after. Haslam put together the new structure with Dorsey and Jackson believing the two can and will work well together. Jackson and Dorsey have echoed the feeling.

Dorsey also said he erred a week ago when he told reporters that the previous regime led by Sashi Brown did not get "real players" for Jackson.

"Listen, you guys are professional wordsmiths," Dorsey said. "I am not a professional wordsmith. I'm a football guy. My intent was to say we don't have enough good football players. There's some good football players on this team.

"Are there some good young football players on this team? You bet there are. And you know what, we're going to get some more football players, and we're going to get some Ws, too."

Dorsey said he does not want to be the guy who takes shots at previous regimes. "I think Sashi is a good person," he said.


Among other topics Dorsey touched on:

• Josh Gordon's talent means the Browns will be committed to him. "As long as he is committed to the Cleveland Browns, I will tell you the Cleveland Browns are committed to him, not only to be a good football player but to be a good man off the field," Dorsey said.

• It is "imperative" that DeShone Kizer start the final two games, he said.

• Dorsey has studied the quarterbacks in the draft and talked with the Browns' area scouts about the upcoming draft class. "The cupboard's not bare in this class," he said.

• He has discussed how analytics fit in football with director of strategy Paul DePodesta but said that he believes that in the NFL it should be 85 percent Atlanta Braves (scouting) and 15 percent Oakland A's (analytics). He said he believes there can be a place for analytics "if it's used right."

Great read. Thanks for posting.

I hate this “analytics” vs “football guys” buzzword crap people keep using.

Every single team uses analytics. Quarterback rating, red zone conversion rates, sacks, yards per catch etc

You need a mix of both to be a good team.

This is probably your best post.

Of course... we are set up for immediate success in 2018. If we retain Hue, he could actually end up winning a few games which I believe many Hue supporters will falsely identify that as "See, I told you so."

Hue will never be a super bowl winning coach, and I think that's what most of us are after.

If we were 4-12 just this year no one would have been fired.

And crap lie this goes unquestioned. Where is the proof that he can't win a Super Bowl?

Has Hue as OC or HC ever won a playoff game?

Has Sashi ever won more than one game? Hue has.

If Hue even gets to a Super Bowl as HC, I'll buy us tickets and we can hash it out over a few $12 beers.

Has any head coach you know of had a "game manager"?

That is being the head coach.

If Hue gets to a Super Bowl, you should at least spring for the good stuff.

Tickets aren't enough?

What gets me is didn't we already do this?

Basically Hue already got a pass. And we're looking to give him a second pass.

I'm sure after that first year Hue was adamant about getting an offensive line, probably upset his quarterbacks were getting killed. We spent an enormous amount of money on making sure we'd have an Oline for Hue. Tretter, Zietler, Bitonio... We improved the quarterback situation with Osweiler, Kessler, Hogan, Kizer. Out of all those quarterbacks, it was HUE who decided to go with the rookie.

Hue went 1-15 and we all said give him another chance we are rebuilding. We give him another chance with a better roster and we're staring 0-16 in the face! But let's give him another chance!

Doesn't Hue control who plays?

Brock was never going to be on the 53 man roster, that is if you believe what 'people' were saying prior to the season start. My understanding is that Sashi controlled the 53 man roster while Hue decided who was on the field...

Hello. Hue did. Hue chose to start Kizer over Osweiler.

Maybe this Sept. 2, 2017 article will jar your memory...


The Browns were unsuccessful in trying to trade Osweiler, who started 14 games last season for Houston, and the team will have to pay him that $16 million guaranteed contract — minus the offset from the Broncos, with the minimum for a sixth-year pro $775,000 — it inherited when it acquired him and a second-round pick in March.
 
Osweiler's release means the Browns will go with Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan as Kizer's backups, meaning the team doesn't have a QB with a win in the NFL.

"Wouldn't have probably predicted it would've ended this way but happy because all four of the guys competed," said Sashi Brown, the team's executive vice president of football operations. "Depending on when we had cut-downs, it could've broke in different ways. But in the end, we really felt good about the three young guys being in the room and it was a difficult decision with Brock because he brings that veteran presence and experience, but do feel good about Cody, Kevin and DeShone."
link

I don't think your post answered your question, mac...

Because Kiser over-thru the first one.

Now that's funny.

I have already agreed that Sashi had final say over the 53 man roster. And you believe that Hue had no input on who was on it?

Yeah, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. You're saying one thing but posting articles that doesn't support your point or debunk mine.

If I may... I look back at the preseason. We started Osweiler games 1 and 2. Hue said the quarterback who starts game 3 will be his starter. I think the organization, Sashi, even Joe Thomas was expecting us to start the season with Osweiler. But then Hue chose Kizer as his starter and surprised everyone. Kizer didn't even play the 4th game and neither did Osweiler. The article you referenced about trading osweiler was dated September 2, a date after Hue chose Kizer as his quarterback.

Hue had McCown and Osweiler in year two. He wanted neither.

We had Kessler and Hogan, but he chose Kizer. You yourself said if he had gone with Kessler as his quarterback we would have won some games.

Hue's decision to start Kizer already cost one person his job and it's about to cost a lot more people theirs.

Between this and last season, Hue has had 6 QB's available and he has failed to 'whisper' any one of them up to a passable starter. This is not a shot against Hue, but rather a response to those who say that he has not been given a QB or that had no input into one...

I think this is a very valid point and one that scares the crap out of me, even as a Hue supporter.

I'm not knocking you for your comments on Kessler. I agree with you. I knew when we went with Kizer over Kessler it was going to be a long season... But I got it, Kizer blows Kessler out of the water on all things quarterback except accuracy.

And we will just have to agree to disagree.

I also think that it's been well documented that Hue was leaned upon for quarterbacks. McCown wanted to go somewhere where he could play and mentor young quarterbacks. He wasn't going to get that here because we were about on the field player development. Despite all the people screaming about how Sashi didn't know how to put a roster together, the roster was garbage, the plan was never to win a Super Bowl in year two. I believe wholeheartedly that we were taking the hit on the first two years in order to develop young players. The roster is on Sashi, but the losing is 110% on Hue.

I think the problem with Kessler is that same problems we could see with Kizer. Hue does absolutely zero to build confidence in his young quarterbacks. He's absolutely HORRIBLE with this. Last year when asked about Kessler's lack of deep passes, it was all, "Hey man, not my fault, I keep telling him to throw it deep, I don't know what else to tell you guys."

I think the same for Hogan. He was just thrown out there and told to show what he can do. I think it was obvious he was nervous/excited as he overthrew a lot of passes. Hue never gave him the vote of confidence, it was hey Kizer isn't doing well so we're mixing it up. Nothing about what Hogan brings to the table. I was disappointed in his performance.

He's doing the same thing with Kizer. Throwing him under the bus, will he ever get it, I might bench him...but nah you know what, he's the guy, I'm going to start him. It's been this way since day one, gotta get these guys to learn my system, but hey they're just not getting it.

NFL quarterbacks just don't fall off a truck. They have to be developed. We draft Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, or Mayfield next year Hue is going to have to develop him. I get that Hue needs a vet, he really does, but what happens when that vet is injured and we have to turn to the rookie who isn't ready. Hue will turn to the owner/front office again and be like, "Welp, where's my next quarterback, this one isn't working either."

I really really wish RG3 or McCown had stayed healthy last year. I wonder how much different things would be today.