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Are u saying that Hue has handled Kizer well this year?

So he's saying that they were bad, not that they are bad. What it wrong with that statement? Did he say he is still refusing to hire one going into next season? Did he say they're still that bad? No, he did not.

I think those who want Hue gone are reaching.

I think you're reaching with that reply. "would be bad" is not the same as "were bad". It's not like they improved because of coaching.

It would be very hard for anyone to do a worst job than Hue. Nobody in the history of the NFL did..

So the exact QB's you mentioned were Flacco... Which Hue coached for exactly 2 seasons..

Now if we can consider any QB coached that coached a better QB than Flacco for 2 seasons, how many coaches would be better than Hue?

But here is a challenge, lets see how Hue's QB's evolved after Hue left.

Flacco: 80.3 to 88.9 (QB)
Jason Campbell: 84.2 to 72.8 (OC)
Carson Palmer: 80.5 to 85.3 (HC)
Andy Dalton: 106.2 to 91.8 (OC)
Josh: 72.3 to 94.5

So we have Dalton and Campbell who got worst when Hue left. Amazingly not one QB had an improvement on the season He started working with them.

Hue is no QB whisperer what he is is a master spinner PR wonder.

Also amazing that the HC who was hired to help with the QB-s, gets the GM fired because of QB play and QB selections...

Master spinner indeed


Remember Holmgren's fame with QB's... but in his case he actually had HOF QB's in his resume.

Wow .... what an accomplishment ... the rookie QB didn’t get worse ... ...

U can make all the EXCUSES u want for Hue ....

He mishandled Kizer FROM DAY 1 ...

Unless of course u think throwing a rookie QB that wasn’t ready to start to the wolves with the ENTIRE PLAYBOOK a good move ... ever heard of the words SCALE IT BACK ...

And funny thing ... Kizer didn’t really start to improve until HUE SCALED THINGS BACK ... did u conveniently forget that part in your rush to MAKE EXCUSES FOR HUE ...

Pulling him out of multiple games and then benching him ... BRILLIANT ...

All AWESOME moves and right there in the HANDLING YOUR ROOKIE QB HANDBOOK ... ...

A partial statement? .. your boy said ... I DIDN’T HIRE AN OC CAUSE I KNEW THE O WOULD SUCK ...

Spin that any way u want ... its a BS ass statement to make ... sad part is ... U KNOW THAT ... just like a few others on here in your rush to defend Hue ... REALITY FLIES OUT THE WINDOW!!!

The man made MISTAKES ... admit it and move on ...

And Eo, I have no doubts I'm lightyears better than Hue has a manager.

Has a manager It's my duty to guarantee I have the resources and team necessary to meet the goals I've signed.

If I cannot make sure I get them I go to management and put my place at their disposition and assume I'm not good enough for what they want.

NEVER, EVER in my life, I have used my team has an excuse for my failures.

NEVER, EVER I have allowed any of my managers to excuse bad performances with team quality and resources.

A QB whisperer turns horrible to serviceable, bad to good, good to great. Hue has done none of this. EVER. I never understood the QB whisperer thing. Not sure if I want him handling another drafted QB. I understand people want continuity but the whole argument about him being good with QBs just doesn't seem to hold water. The way I'm seeing it is that the only continuity were gonna have is losing.

That entire thing is BS anyhow ... that is the definition of COVERING YOUR ASS ... its a BLATANT LIE ... and it was the last straw with me as far as Hue and his INTEGRITY ... he has NONE ... he’s been throwing folks under the bus since last years bye week and it keeps getting worse ...

U have some that will go to ANY LENGTH TO DEFEND WHAT HUE DOES ...

PATHETIC there defending this ... PATHETIC ...

Up til that BLATANT LIE I was glad Hue was staying ... now .. i could CARE LESS ... if he stays .. theres positives ... if he goes ... i won’t have to see who Hues going to run over next ...

But that won’t stop the DEFENDERS from saying i want Hue gone ... i could CARE LESS!!!

Yes, the timetable for figuring out whether we needed to draft a QB at the top this year and being on schedule with a five year plan had nothing to with it.

We should have just wasted a couple of more years on the 4th QB taken at #52 before we figured out we needed to draft a franchise QB. That would have been the smart move.

We have a definitive answer now .... ...

Luckily for the rams they didn’t have a 5 year plan so they didn’t give up on Goff last year ... ...

Like i said in the other thread ... STICK TO THE LOW HANGING FRUIT ... your BS isn’t going to fly with me ...

So he was going to hire his offensive coordinator after all the off-season transactions? That'd be weird.

No he said he didn't hire an offensive coordinator before the 2017 season because he knew we would be bad on offense and didn't want that person to be the scapegoat.

And it looks like he was right. I'm glad these young kids egos are so fragile they don't understand they are young and inexperienced. Poor, poor kids.

Except he said it after the season. So he's saying he knew all along the players would be bad. This is not that hard.

He's saying the players are bad so that he looks better.

The players are bad (mostly because they are very young), but Hue Jackson is also bad.

Good leaders take responsibility for poor performance because they are the ones in charge.

Maybe you could list all of those great offensive players on our roster to me? Duke?

Where did I say we had great offensive players? In fact, I literally said the players are bad.

Hue Jackson said this on December 7th, 2017:



1. So he knew the players were going to be bad before the off-season even he started and that's why he didn't hire an offensive coordinator?

2. He's calling the players bad, which they may be, but what is the point in saying this publicly other than to pump yourself up?

3. Unrelated to the players, but wouldn't an offensive coordinator been helpful because you have such bad players? Maybe they would understand things better with another experienced voice in their heads? Also, he then blamed the media for him not hiring an offensive coordinator.

OL is ok, not stellar but I think they were a major surprise, considering last year level and that we lost the best LT in the league.

Not an 0-16 OL for sure.

Devalve was a nice surprise,he threw his QB under the bus, and made his life hard, but he has potential.

I can think of a large number of coaches that could have made something with a team with average/good OL, workable TE and pedestrian Wr's...

With the number of RB's in FA... RB quality is no excuse, if he didn't like Duke and Crow, he could have signed better...

Now, this is never a team to go throwing 60% of the times....

So better blame the guy who thought of the game plans.... He is for sure an misunderstood genius or just plain Idiot...

No, you just think you can.

He simply said he didn't have a team that was where he thought it needed to be.

Where did he say he didn't have any good players? Where did he say they could not win any games?

He didn't say any of the things you're "projecting" he said.

Why wasn't the team where it needed to be? Because the coaches weren't good enough (if that's the case, maybe the coaches should change)? Or because the players aren't good enough?



I don't believe I have said either of things with regards to Hue Jackson.



I probably am going a little too far into some of the things Hue Jackson is saying, but that does not mean he never throws his players under the bus (which he should never do). I also believe you (and others) are refusing to see the negatives about the coach because you want him to stay.

My overall point is this. On many occasions Hue Jackson (and Gregg Williams) have negatively portrayed others in the media. I don't think real people of character would do this even if their job was on the line. I think the two coaches are trying to make themselves look better by putting down others, that is the definition of throwing someone under the bus.

OMG.

Pit. I'm with you.

Diam. You're next.

Pregnant daughter needs a shapiron to the DR.

You guys are so damn beaten down that you're seeing things. Kinda like a Coyote looks like a Bigfoot.

I LOVE this board.

Merry Christmas Peeps.

And I actually understand why you have that impression. I'm actually not even saying that you're wrong. I'm just saying that it's not a cut and dry issue. It could go either way.

What I will say is this. These guys are NFL coaches. They're not politicians and they're not speech writers. They get put on the spot a lot in interviews. I think to expect them to be perfect, or even close to perfect in their responses is really a little out of their wheel house. When a team is this bad, a lot of those questions are intended to be to get a "gotchya moment". That may be why I don't take some of these comments as badly as some do.

Now as far as defending Hue? Yes I often do. We have been told he will be here next year. That may be true or not. We've been told things like that before that have turned out not to be true. I'm not one of those who would throw some kind of tantrum if Hue is fired.

What I do see is also my opinion. I could also be wrong in that opinion just as I feel some others are wrong in their opinions.

Let's look at something I think we may agree on. Williams is getting a lot of grief on this very forum. Yet almost everyone agrees that our secondary is very lacking in ability. A lot of focus is being placed on the coach while it's obvious he doesn't have the talent in the secondary to run an effective D.

I think the same holds true for Hue. Corey Coleman has been injured a lot and Gordon just came back. And let's face it, Coleman hasn't lived up to his draft status when he has been on the field. Opponents have loaded the box forcing us to pass and people have given him nothing but grief for trying to take advantage of what the opposing D's have given us. The FO hasn't provided him with a that has given us any real chance of competing with.

Now does that mean I think we should be 0-14? No, not really. But I'm not ready to say he can't coach if he's given the talent to compete. I saw him use Pryor at QB in Oakland and coach a very poor team to an 8-8 season. That was doing a damned good job IMO. I don't simply believe he forgot how to do that.

Unlike many, I don't believe that Hue had as much say in our draft picks as some have indicated that they believe he has had. I don't believe that this report that they hadn't talked in weeks just happened overnight. I believe that happened over time. I believe that signing and drafting players based on analytics doesn't address anything remotely close to getting good players that fit into what a coach is trying to build on the field. So I believe the "Hue/Sashi divide" has been a process.

So what I'm left with is what we're all left with. The ownership has decided that the biggest problem was the FO. They obviously felt that the problem was the talent level. That the players didn't line up with what was needed for the coaches to do their jobs. The evidence of that being the way they felt is that Sashi is gone and Hue is here.

So it seems that the owners of this team felt very similar to the way I felt. They are in the building every day. They have witnessed this evolution from day 1. Now I'm not a big fan of this ownership. I don't trust them much further than I can throw them. lol But I have to say that it only seems logical to trust people who are a first hand witness to what's going on than a bunch of people on a message board trying to use guest work and conjecture as their measuring stick.

So no, I'm not sold on hue. For that matter, I'm not sold on Williams. But Hue seems to be the subject here.

As such, we have a very young team here. The youngest team in the NFL. I think the bulk of our fan base is overestimating the talent we have on the O side of the ball. As such, I would like to see stability and continuity on the O side of the ball. I would like to see what talent a football guy at GM can bring in here to give Hue a real chance to succeed.

If I felt Hue had the talent to succeed and was simply "Botching it up", I would be right on the bandwagon to dump him. I simply don't believe that's the case. But if the new GM decides he wants "his guy" at HC, I won't be raising hell about it.

I just think expecting Hue to answer every question like he's a PR guy is ridiculous. I think it's realistic to expect he's not going to answer every question perfectly. I think looking at every comment he makes looking for some "gotchya moment" is silly. I believe there are reasons to criticize Hue. But dissecting every word he says like he's a motivational speaker is simply reaching for excuses to roast him.

Got my threads mixed up

The people saying Kizer isn't a good QB, and how we should trash him, etc should be ashamed of themselves. No QB no matter where we draft them will be successful here in this TOXIC environment that the fan base has had a Huge part of creating



Wentz and Goff are two years older then Kizer and had 2 years more experience playing football then Kizer. Kizer was a guy that needed to sit for a year or two before he would even be remotely ready to play in the Pro's. Nearly EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL SCOUT said this about Kizer. that Kizer was a guy with TONS of physical talent, but needed a year or two of coaching to polish things up. Many thought Kizer could be the best QB in the 2016 draft 2-3 years down the raod as long as he sat.

Kizer was put into a 4-5 read pass happy system, with a coach who is a buffoon when it comes to running the ball, thus putting the already confused rookie in a bad place...at some point Kizer being as confused as he was just had to say F it and shuck the damn ball.

This was a no win situation for Kizer from the get go. Kizer should have sat this year and not played a single snap in the regular season, not a single down...Osweiler/McCown, and Hogan should have been the Qb to play this year with Kizer red shirting.

Our QB Coiach David Lee told everyone back in the Preseason that Kizer was NOT ready to play:



or how bout Kizer himself telling even the media in the preseason that he was NOT ready to play yet



Or more from David Lee:




Kizer was the kid alone in a crowded room screaming at the top of his lungs that he didn't want to do something, yet everyone around him just ignored him and pushed him to do it anyways. Even our Qb coach said the kid wasn't even close to being ready.

Yet now, we have fans calling Kizer the worst QB ever, he sucks, he's trash, etc..when in reality ZERO of this is his fault, he was not ready to play this year and the majority of Jackson Staff agreed with that assesement yet Jackson put him out there anyway and have probably ruined the kid.

Regardless, you don't want Hue Jackson anywhere near your 1st rd pick QB, hell you don't even want him in the same state if possible...unless you want to see another Qb ruined because rushing a QB to play before he is ready, regardless of his draft slot, is recipe to ruin the kid completely.

Hopefully Kizer can get a year or two on the bench here or somewhere else to develop...in a year or two in the right sitation...Kizer is a bona fide NFL QB.

Those saying Kizer has no accuracy is Horse manure. Kizer is completely accurate "when the throws are on time" he looks inaccurate because often times the throws are late because he is not up to speed on reading NFL coverage yet and he needed a year or two due to his younger age to catch up to the speed of the game..your gonna look inaccurate when your a second and a half late with a throw...simplify the reads down to two reads and his accuracy will be far better. '

When Kizer has NOT been late with the throw the guys balls have been lasers right on target, the problem is he is late on the reads about 70% of the time simply because he is so young and not ready to play yet. I mean our Qb coaches even said he wasn't ready, hell even Kizer himself said he wasn't ready...wjat does Jackson do? Marches him right out there with no run game, and no simplifying the plays and people excpect such a great performance

Considering everything Kizer has had to deal with this year, Bitonio is right...Kizer has done pretty good considering his age and everything else... still a lot of hope and talent with Kizer that he could turn things around..its far from over for this young man and i hope he turns things around.

I don't know what you think you saw, but Pryor only took one snap that year and didn't attempt a pass.

I hope you're right knight. I tend to agree with all of that

Yeah but still. . .

QFT

I think he will be traded. And we will be sorry when he proves legit elsewhere when someone else has the patience to develop him.

I wonder if TP had to teach Hue how to run the option during that time. I've never seen a Coach look so uncomfortable with the concept.

You can't compare football manager with walmart manager, it's not the same thing.

The Rams invested a huge amount of capital to move up and take Goff, they are married to him. We took a chance with a second round pick, we are not married to Kizer...thank God. And stop comparing Kizer to Goff. Kizer was never graded anywhere near Goff as a prospect by anyone he will never be Goff or anything close.

Hue may have had his hands tied by the front office.

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence like the Haden release to support the thought.

We probably won’t know, but at this point the best to do is move forward.

Two or three weeks back someone here referred to Kizer as Flattop Jones. I never heard of Flattop Jones, so I did a quick Google search. Some of the pictures weren't too flattering, but I did come across this...



...and really loved it. If he starts playing better (clears throat) I wouldn't even mind getting a T-shirt with this as his cartoon picture on it, I like it that much. (The jacket should be orange though.) You gotta admit, there is a resemblance.

I think his wild man squashed hair is damn sexy.

I want this on a tshirt.

I knew something like that would come out, sooner or later! The real reason you frequently defend him has little to do with his playing ability and actually because you are attracted to him. As I always say, 'you gotta read between them lines!'