Using route combinations to create separation and throw quicker timing routes:
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Singleback snugs formation creates a free release for the receivers in the flanker spot (off the line of scrimmage). Then WR on the line Coleman runs a pick rub route directly at Njoku defender.
This creates a defined read and an easy throw that Kizer gets out quickly, accurately and in rhythm.
Which of the 2 play concepts seems more sound consider the team, personnel and conditions?
Unfair??? Kizer should always know where his #! WR is and where his dump off is if he wishes to be an NFL QB...Instead he locked in on ONE WR...
1. On the opposite side of the field to where his eyes had progressed,
Progressed?!? what story are you writing... He's looking at the one WR the entire time.
For Kizer to know that Duke was coming off his block and getting open, Kizer would have either needed to be psychic or have eyes in the back of his head.
How bout Kizer being aware of his surroundings especially when its 3-5 yards away from him. And Duke is one of his biggest weapons...a real QB will know exactly where Antonio Brown is. It not like there is Sooooo much going on that he cannot be aware of the field of play. Psychic???? no I'm talking about "GOOD"
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Unfair??? Kizer should always know where his #! WR is and where his dump off is if he wishes to be an NFL QB...Instead he locked in on ONE WR...
1. On the opposite side of the field to where his eyes had progressed,
Progressed?!? what story are you writing... He's looking at the one WR the entire time.
For Kizer to know that Duke was coming off his block and getting open, Kizer would have either needed to be psychic or have eyes in the back of his head.
How bout Kizer being aware of his surroundings especially when its 3-5 yards away from him. And Duke is one of his biggest weapons...a real QB will know exactly where Antonio Brown is. It not like there is Sooooo much going on that he cannot be aware of the field of play. Psychic???? no I'm talking about "GOOD"
I am not saying this to be disrespectful in any way. But, in my humble opinion it seems to me that your understanding of this play is off. Maybe its off because of confirmation bias and you hunting for negatives about Kizer as opposed to simply breaking down and assessing the play.
The reason why I said it seems you're hunting for negatives to confirm your bias is that your only 'breakdown' of a play in this thread is an overly negative "break down" of a PART of a play in which you're knocking Kizer for a mistake that in view of the play doesn't make sense.
This play is a progression read. The QB is supposed to throw to the first open receiver in the progression. Njoku's read comes before Duke in the progression and Njoku is open. Acting like Kizer made some huge mistake by not throwing to Duke just show a lack of understanding/bias against Kizer. You don't fault a QB for throwing to an open read.
I can't believe we're knocking Kizer on a play in which he gets to his 3rd read, which is open, for not coming off that open read in the hopes that a check down is on over the other side of the field.
Madness. Kizer did excellent on that play, minus the accuracy, but, as much as I wish I didn't have to say this so often, he didn't have much room to step in to the throw.
I didn't want to guide the discussion any direction so I just posted his early pass plays in the order they happened. I was surprised...and i probably shouldn't have been about the direction the "discussion" went though, lol.
Since no one else is really interested...here's what jumped out to me.... Look at the play concepts....the plan is a head scratcher...other then the pass he completed to Njoku, I don't understand what they're asking the QB to do. Throwing iso routes downfield vs man on a snow covered field with a struggling QB doesn't seem like the best way to open a game.
Sorry and I do mean to disrespect you...cause I don't do the BS game.
Take a look at that play and if you tell me once more I don't know what I'm talking about after watching him LOCK ONTO ONE WR ONLY and never was a high % throw.
If you actually think an NFL QB should not be aware of his surroundings and who his potential dump off is then I'm sorry you can mumbo jumbo all you want and try to pretend you actually know what you are talking about when you don't.
And this is not a play that I actually fault Kizer that much...I actually categorize this in the bracket that with experience he would get better as it doesn't have to do with the fact he is nowhere near NFL accurate but has to do with experience. But I didn't put the play up there for all to see. Just commenting on the play you put up there. Your talk of progression play...is just flim flam as if you know what you are talking about. The kid freaking locked in on ONE WR and displayed not one IOTA of Progression nor in making the right decision.
Can he improve on this...yes Does he complete the pass to Duke cause of his incompetence in Accuracy well that is another story.
I have no bias...I'm a homer. Nothing would please me more than us having an actual Franchise Prospect QB so we can drop back a bit and get a gold mine in return in draft picks as we don't need to use it on a QB. Nothing would make me happier. But I cannot ignore what I see out there.
Now go ahead and High brow me on QB play and tell me he went through his progressions...cause sorry that is totally false. He locked in and never looked away to have a sense where his High % check down pass is.
You act like it would be a miracle...and yet I see that kind of feel for the game every week from a multitude of QBs.
sorry Ed...he is not the guy...I wish he was but you are in some dream land if you think so. And the fact you don't see it doesn't endear your credibility on QBs to me one bit. So go "don't direspect somebody else"
But lawyer up and pretend you know what you're talking about.lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Sorry and I do mean to disrespect you...cause I don't do the BS game.
No need to be disingenuous. We have had our exchanges before and as this post illustrates you actually do intend to disrespect. And the fact that you pretend otherwise is actually BS. But its all good, I already know that's what you do.
Originally Posted By: eotab
Take a look at that play and if you tell me once more I don't know what I'm talking about after watching him LOCK ONTO ONE WR ONLY and never was a high % throw.
I'm quite sure you think Kizer locked onto to one receiver. But its not true. Kizer is executing a half-field read concept. I explained it and you either glossed over it or simply discarded that info or didn't understand it. The progression goes from the clear out/vertical 'alert' route, then to Gordon on the drag route but he get's doubled; then to Njoku. You can keep repeating he locked on to one receiver if you want but that's not what happened if you understand what you're looking at.
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If you actually think an NFL QB should not be aware of his surroundings and who his potential dump off is then I'm sorry you can mumbo jumbo all you want and try to pretend you actually know what you are talking about when you don't.
Ah...the BS begins. The bolded part if pure BS fiction which you invented out of thin air. Show me or quote me where I've said that. You can't because its BS. Nice touch calling actual play breakdown mumbo jumbo.
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And this is not a play that I actually fault Kizer that much...I actually categorize this in the bracket that with experience he would get better as it doesn't have to do with the fact he is nowhere near NFL accurate but has to do with experience. But I didn't put the play up there for all to see.
Yup. Just keep regurgitating your opinions rather then actually breakdown the play.
Quote:
Just commenting on the play you put up there. Your talk of progression play...is just flim flam as if you know what you are talking about. The kid freaking locked in on ONE WR and displayed not one IOTA of Progression nor in making the right decision.
When you post like this it just exposes your ignorance. But the thing is you probably don't even realize it. And that's what makes football discussion with you a nightmare.
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I have no bias...
Lol.
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Now go ahead and High brow me on QB play and tell me he went through his progressions...cause sorry that is totally false. He locked in and never looked away to have a sense where his High % check down pass is.
Was Njoku open?
This play is a progression read. The QB is supposed to throw to the first open receiver in the progression. Njoku's read comes before Duke in the progression and Njoku is open. Acting like Kizer made some huge mistake by not throwing to Duke just show a lack of understanding/bias against Kizer. You don't fault a QB for throwing to an open read. No one who grades film or watches film would fault a QB for the decision to throw to an open receiver. No one.
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sorry Ed...he is not the guy...I wish he was but you are in some dream land if you think so. And the fact you don't see it doesn't endear your credibility on QBs to me one bit. So go "don't direspect somebody else"
What does any of this have to do with the play? Its quite obvious your intent was never to actually participate in a discussion or breakdown of the play. You as yet haven't even given a breakdown of the whole play. You've only pointed out a wrong decision you THINK Kizer made based on your (limited) understanding of the play.
Cheers
I decided to re-post my breakdown of the play if you wanted to actually have a discussion of the play:
Originally Posted By: edromeo's flim flam high hat football mumbo jumbo ;)
First I want to thank the people who want to discuss plays in this long lost season.
Second when looking at plays one should divorce themselves of the knowledge of the outcome of the play. Its easy to look at the player after the fact and figure out what the ideal outcome would be and fault the players for not facilitating the ideal outcome. Remember in essence you have already been told the answers to the test.
Third I want to say that everyone looks at plays differently. But I think if someone is looking at plays they should make an effort to do more then hunt for mistakes and only discuss the mistake and not the whole play.
You always have to note the down/distance.
Originally Posted By: edromeo
[note: this play was posted in slow motion]
This was a 3rd and long play. Trips (R) iso (L).
RB has a block then release, his first assignment is to block and doesn't go out into a pattern until he neutralize the rush. Since he's not initially going into a route he's not part of the early progressions he's the 4th progression/checkdown. There would be no reason for Kizer, while under pressure, to turn down an open receiver (holing in the ball longer) to look at the RB.
Starting from the (R) outside receiver their routes are: Vertical/clear out, Drag (Gordon), Njoku 10 yard/get to the 'sticks' out route.
The Iso receiver on the (L) is backside read and not part of the playside progression.
My guess at the progression: 'Hi' read - 'alert' the deep route IF they win by a wide margin then throw it 1st read is Gordon on the drag route. Josh gets doubled by 'Robber' the defense looks like Cover-1 'Robber'.
The pocket is get crushed, while Kizer is going through his 3 read half-field progression. Coleman gets pushed back and RG#70 is late with the help. LG#75 gets beat clean. The pocket is collapsing as Kizer steps up into the pocket.
Imo makes the correct choice on targeting Njoku. The timing of the deep out to Njoku was off and Kizer leads him too much. You have to consider that snow is possible factor for the pass being too far out in front of Njoku.
The pass is off target. But, imho you always have to consider the protection and the difficulty of the throw when looking at accuracy.
My next thought is what is the plan here? To throw a deep out, in the snow vs man coverage? *Shurgs* doesn't seem like a sound plan to me. Throwing isolation routes vs man coverage in the snow.
I didn't read any response to this when I posted earlier.
No need to be disingenuous. We have had our exchanges before and as this post illustrates you actually do intend to disrespect. And the fact that you pretend otherwise is actually BS. But its all good, I already know that's what you do.
You are a lawyer right? lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
He'll twist anything to try and uphold Kizer. Remember how he did the same thing with RG3? That's why he came here in the first place. To try and make excuses for a terrible QB.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
He'll twist anything to try and uphold Kizer. Remember how he did the same thing with RG3? That's why he came here in the first place. To try and make excuses for a terrible QB.
All of our posters are a treasured resource and should be treated as such. Everyone brings/contributes something to this site in some way...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
He'll twist anything to try and uphold Kizer. Remember how he did the same thing with RG3? That's why he came here in the first place. To try and make excuses for a terrible QB.
Lol, do you even pretend to have any interest in actually discussing breaking down plays at all? Anyhow, you mention Griffin more then I do and like with Kizer you have invented a fictional and false narrative about my opinion of him. And oh btw, you would think this team in particular would have a kinder opinion of the only QB to bring this franchise a win in how many games?
There is no burden of proof needed from me. This team will move on at the QB position and everyone has watched Kizer play. The proof will be in the pudding. But carry on......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
What mistaken claim? That we will draft a QB to replace Kizer and that he will be on the depth chart next year? That our talent evaluaters will move on from Kizer?
The prrof will be in the pudding and just like you did with RG3, your evaluations and upholding an inaccurate QB will fall by the wayside.
History will repeat itself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You enter a thread specifically about breaking down plays, yet haven't once ventured to even attempt to breakdown a play. All you do is whine over your misconception and outright lie's about my views/posts and claims.
You come into the thread trolling, and leave trolling. I don't care about whatever agenda you are trolling about. If you aren't here to discuss/breakdown plays, kindly troll somewhere's else.
This pretty much sums up your contributions to the thread:
Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I'm not the one sitting here trying to paint a false narrative. I mean, do you guys watch the Browns? If you do, you already know.
You are the one trying to post a false narrative.
Now spend a few hours proving that you are not by posting analysis all of Kizer's plays.
I'm sorry that I forgot you are the board police and can tell me where to post and what to post about. lmao You do realize that this is a public forum and the really sad part is that you know I'm right about Kizer. Good luck with that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
You don't have the slightest clue what my opinion is of Kizer or his future. That is clearly obvious by your posts in this thread.
And oh by the way, this thread isn't even about my opinions on Kizer and his future. But, like a troll you enter the thread with the sole intention of trolling with some BS agenda you have about your FALSE assumption about my view of Kizer and his future.
The power of troll is strong with you.
I'm not the board police, but you only have to look 1 post above to see where I quoted someone who i believe is board police calling you out on your BS.
And since you are sweating me so hard and are so desperate to have conversation with me about my opinion on Kizer you can move it to the Kizer Rnd 7 and IF you ask nicely i'll be more then happy to sit you down and give you my take on Kizer and his future...so you can stop lying about it and so that henceforth when you do lie about there will be a clear record.
Guys: When posting a video, would you please state what you want us to focus on. In this video, my attention was drawn to the missed block by Drango. Is that what you wanted to highlight?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Prior to the play below Kizer calls a insert the hyperbolic overly negative word of your choice here timeout when he could have let the quartet run out.
Guys: When posting a video, would you please state what you want us to focus on. In this video, my attention was drawn to the missed block by Drango. Is that what you wanted to highlight?
I'm posting plays for discussion. I don't want to lead/bias your observations one way or another. So I tend to withhold my play breakdown until someone begins a discussion.
I want people to view the whole play. OL vs DL. Play design vs situation. The QB process. The defense coverage. The pre-snap vs post snap look. Is there a change or did they play wysiwyg defense? WR vs DB. Did the WR win at the line? Did he get pressed? Is he running a route designed to get open quickly? etc.
But, if you have a specific question about my opinion/take on an aspect of a play I would be happy to answer.
Crowell really sucked at blocking...Thought Kizer had a shot at the seam route but Crowell made it improbable. That is what I like about the Barckley RB pick he is a great blocker coming in.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
He's looking at the one WR the entire time. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg)
