I like the way Mayfield plays but it's tough to draft a QB like Mayfield acts.
There has had to have been someone at that school in his ear telling him that he needed to grow up. The fact that he isn't listening to that person is a bad sign.
Handing an immature kid that doesn't want to listen millions of dollars and then trusting him to lead your team is not something I think the Browns will consider after JFF.
I like the way Mayfield plays but it's tough to draft a QB like Mayfield acts.
There has had to have been someone at that school in his ear telling him that he needed to grow up. The fact that he isn't listening to that person is a bad sign.
Handing an immature kid that doesn't want to listen millions of dollars and then trusting him to lead your team is not something I think the Browns will consider after JFF.
consider cam newton and winston all came with character questions...they seem to have turned out well..everyone matures eventually. If Hue is respected by players as reported..he would be able to reign it in and help him.. JFF wanted no part of it, and from what I've heard, the coaching staff did JFF no favors in that regard...he wasn't really wanted
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I like the way Mayfield plays but it's tough to draft a QB like Mayfield acts.
There has had to have been someone at that school in his ear telling him that he needed to grow up. The fact that he isn't listening to that person is a bad sign.
Handing an immature kid that doesn't want to listen millions of dollars and then trusting him to lead your team is not something I think the Browns will consider after JFF.
consider cam newton and winston all came with character questions...they seem to have turned out well..everyone matures eventually. If Hue is respected by players as reported..he would be able to reign it in and help him.. JFF wanted no part of it, and from what I've heard, the coaching staff did JFF no favors in that regard...he wasn't really wanted
And they'll figure that out in the interview room but given the number of issues I just can't see how he can explain them all away.
Even at the bowl game with everyone watching and his draft status on the line, he couldn't help himself.
I very much appreciate you taking the time to watch video and post here about what you saw. This part of what you posted should set off alarm bells with every Browns' fan, not to mention the Browns FO:
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He is small, not fast but elusive, plays from a spread offense.
Just say "no" - please.
JMO.
For the record he is not SMALL...he is shorter than the prototypical QB but not Manziel Short. Closer to Aaron Rodgers short than Manziel Short...almost exactly same height as Brees but BIGGER... he weighs around 220 right now.
btw...to just say no is not that wise. He's a lot more than short and not fast. He's better than Rosen that I do know.
Gauntlet thrown...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I posted this vid on a thread in the PFF. It got one reply, but the thread turned ugly and it was ignored. I want to post it here and see what you guys think.
I encourage you to watch the video w/the audio muted. Watch his footwork. Tell me how many times he executes a 3, 5, or 7-step drop. Tell me how many times he throws from clean pockets. Tell me how many times he bails at the first sign of pressure. Tell me how many tight windows he had to throw into. But, if all of that is too much.......just concentrate on his footwork and tell me how they translate to the NFL game.
I posted this vid on a thread in the PFF. It got one reply, but the thread turned ugly and it was ignored. I want to post it here and see what you guys think.
I encourage you to watch the video w/the audio muted. Watch his footwork. Tell me how many times he executes a 3, 5, or 7-step drop. Tell me how many times he throws from clean pockets. Tell me how many times he bails at the first sign of pressure. Tell me how many tight windows he had to throw into. But, if all of that is too much.......just concentrate on his footwork and tell me how they translate to the NFL game.
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Haven't watched that game. But, CHSdawg and I both charted and posted our thoughts from the Mayfield vs Ohio State.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
All you gotta do is watch the video and tell me if the dude executes 3, 5, and 7-step drops.
It's not all that hard to do.
Did you comment in any way regarding the breakdowns and observations that CHS and myself made on the OU vs Ohio St. game?
Discussion is a 2-way street. It's not a request followed by a demand.
I like discussing prospects, breaking down plays and exchanging ideas. I would be more then glad to have an actual discussion.
How about this, why don't you look at and give your thoughts on the OU vs Ohio St. game and I'll look at the one you posted.
Just realized I missed some plays watching the wrong youtube (highlights) as opposed to cut-ups. Will update.....
Originally Posted By: edromeo
OU vs Ohio State
Baker a lot of gimme passes manufactured through the offense. Play-action quick throws swings, screens and hitches....but that's what you get with some spread offenses.
A QB can only execute the system he plays in and Baker executed a high level in this game...didn't really miss any throws.
Didn't face a lot of pressure or have to throw from muddied pockets.
When he was pressured handled it well and made plays. Threw a couple off his backfoot. Flashed good arm talent on some throws and good improvisational skills...plays with confidence.
Plus displays of arm talent: 13:17, 9:20, (2nd Q) 11:36 (3rd Q) 3:32, 3:00/?(...could argue IF he had a bigger arm could have lead the receiver), (4th Q) 11:19
I rewatched the game and put all my notes into a spread sheet with varying criteria. I got a lot of the same conclusions you did. One thing that I really noticed this game is how strongly he rotates his hips while throwing. It's like watching a lightweight boxer, he does it so quickly. The throw you mention how he could have a bigger arm, when I watched the play, I thought his footwork was limiting his arm strength on it. He sort of hops around and doesn't get his back leg into the throw like usual.
Worse yet, once he sees pressure or receivers actually covered as they will be in the NFL, his accuracy goes downhill fast.
Unfortunately, your analysis here is so far off base. You can say you don't like him but don't blatantly make stuff up that isn't true.
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It's just me, but I don't like shorter QB'S. Never have and never will.
Actually there are some GMs that feel the same. Dorsey isn't one of them.
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Only thing I see he's got going on is when he's got a clean pocket and a wide open receiver, he's dead nuts accurate.
He's also pretty darn accurate outside the pocket.
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NO WAY will we take that at 1 or 4. He'll be a Career Back Up in my book.
Dorsey will consider Mayfield and is hopefully not going to listen to the b.s. you have to take a 6'4" quarterback at #1 overall. Mayfield's game says starter not back up.
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Eotab. You need to dive into Rosen and Darnold, these 2 are far far above Mayfield as QB'S.
Maybe you should dive into Mayfield, he is simply not behind Rosen and Darnold and in fact is better than both in many instances.
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There is NO POSSIBLE WAY in hell that we will have him rated higher than Rosen or Darnold.
Many will. Many do.
Mayfield is smartest and safest choice of as the quarterbacks.
I don't care if it is a highlight reel or not or cut-ups of plays a poster selects while ignoring other ones. It's very obvious that Mayfield is not executing basic 3, 5, and 7-step drops. He drifts way deeper than most qbs. His feet are all over the place. He often throws w/his back foot ending up in front of his lead foot. His lower body mechanics are more akin to a baseball player's throw than an NFL QB.
He also bails out of big pockets way too early. He runs around a lot back there and that isn't going to cut it in the NFL. He is not nearly as elusive as guys like Manziel, T. Taylor, or R. Wilson.
I am not saying that he won't ever be good in the NFL, but no way is he a day one starter. He has a ton to learn. He's a project.
Combine that w/his character issues and there is no way I take this kid in the first round.
I don't care if it is a highlight reel or not or cut-ups of plays a poster selects while ignoring other ones. It's very obvious that Mayfield is not executing basic 3, 5, and 7-step drops. He drifts way deeper than most qbs. His feet are all over the place. He often throws w/his back foot ending up in front of his lead foot. His lower body mechanics are more akin to a baseball player's throw than an NFL QB.
His lower body mechanics are the reason he can throw a deep bomb so easily. Look at the torq he creates in his hips that help him launch the ball. When googling for a video of Baker's long ball, I stumbled upon this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AiYYUY9mls
Which is a breakdown of his throwing motion from a physics perspective. Baker will never have a super traditional throwing motion as his size won't allow for it.
I also agree with your takes on him bailing out of the pocket and not being nearly as athletic as JFF or Wilson. In fact, I would guess that only Rosen will be slower than him out of the top 4 QBs.
My opinion on Mayfield has not changed since I started this thread on 11/13.
For those that like Mayfield this is not a negative take. It is an observation based upon film study.
Let's start with the Oklahoma offense. Spread offense, no huddle, shotgun formation. Not once did I see Mayfield play under center. So he is not asked to turn his back on the defense. He does not use play action. His receiver routes are not tied to the timing of 3, 5, 7 foot drops.
This is not his fault. The OK offense is what he has learned. He knows that system very well and executes their offense at a high level.
The issue is: It presents a longer learning curve into NFL offensive concepts.
Accuracy in the NFL is a must. Mayfield has shown good accuracy. He also shows the ability to go to secondary targets at times. But the way they run that offense a lot of plays are per-determined pass plays and the receiver gets stared down.
Physically Mayfield is at a disadvantage. He is not tall, or fast. He has to create passing lanes to throw. He often bails from the pocket early to see the field. I have seen him chased down by lineman. Because he often runs and his passion to succeed drives him to make things happen; injury in the NFL is a concern. He is a long way away from Russell Wilson who knows how to play small. Wilson plays with radar and antenna and knows how to protect himself.
A case can be made for Mayfield has the third quarterback taken. But One and Two belong to Rosen and Darnold after them there is a significant drop off.
That in no way means Mayfield can not succeed. He is simply behind Rosen and Mayfield. They are better pro prospects because they have more physical skills, more experience in pro type concepts, and will have less of a learning curve.
That in no way means Mayfield can not succeed. He is simply behind Rosen and Mayfield . They are better pro prospects because they have more physical skills, more experience in pro type concepts, and will have less of a learning curve.
I think you meant Darnold?
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I also agree with your takes on him bailing out of the pocket and not being nearly as athletic as JFF or Wilson. In fact, I would guess that only Rosen will be slower than him out of the top 4 QBs.
And not by much. There are reports that Mayfield will run around a 4.85 in the 40.
I don’t get the Mayfield talk on this board. It’s the only place I’ve seen anyone suggest he’s an option as the number 1 overall pick. If we didn’t have the 1st and 4th picks in the draft and 2 other QB rated significantly higher than him. I could see the love. Maybe for the QB needy team that has a pick in the middle of the first but there is no way I’m wasting the top pick on him.
I don’t get the Mayfield talk on this board. It’s the only place I’ve seen anyone suggest he’s an option as the number 1 overall pick. If we didn’t have the 1st and 4th picks in the draft and 2 other QB rated significantly higher than him. I could see the love. Maybe for the QB needy team that has a pick in the middle of the first but there is no way I’m wasting the top pick on him.
What got my attention focused on Mayfield was that the former GM of the redskins (Scot McCloughlin?) apparently said that Mayfield was he top draft eligible Qb and that he would build a team around him. This was a few months ago.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
I don’t get the Mayfield talk on this board. It’s the only place I’ve seen anyone suggest he’s an option as the number 1 overall pick. If we didn’t have the 1st and 4th picks in the draft and 2 other QB rated significantly higher than him. I could see the love. Maybe for the QB needy team that has a pick in the middle of the first but there is no way I’m wasting the top pick on him.
Most of what you hear/see is media driven. Despite the rumors you hear about Mayfield, he will absolutely be a top 10 pick and some will rate him the top QB in the class. A guy like Allen probably will fall. All the hype are the people in the media that love their quarterback to look like a quarterback. Allen has accuracy issues. It's aiken to why the media went from predicting Kizer as the #1 pick a year ago to actually being drafted in the 2nd round. There's more to a quarterback than being 6'4" with a rocket arm. More GMs/executives will have Mayfield rated higher than Allen.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
I’m not saying he isn’t getting drafted high. He probably will. QB are always overvalued in the draft. He will probably go in the first round and he should. All I’m saying is I haven’t seen anyone other than posters on this board claim he’s the best QB in this draft. The fact is he’s the 3rd rated QB at best and there is no possible way he should be considered with the #1 overall pick.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
You're way off base, but whatever you want to think.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
You're way off base, but whatever you want to think.
Please elaborate where I am off base.
Was he arrested or not?
Did Patterson accuse him of throwing and injuring one of his players during the pregame warm-ups or not?
Did he grab his crotch or not?
Did he make the slash sign or not against Georgia?
Did he try to plant the flag at OSU or not?
Did Kansas players refuse to shake his hand or not?
Did a Georgia player shout out that he needs to show some humility or not?
I am not making one freaking thing up. Your act is old and tired. Give it up. You are embarrassing yourself.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 01/05/1811:27 PM. Reason: spelling error
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
You're way off base, but whatever you want to think.
Please elaborate where I am off base.
Was he arrested or not?
Did Patterson accuse him of throwing and injuring one of his players during the pregame warm-ups or not?
Did he grab his crotch or not?
Did he make the slash sign or not against Georgia?
Did he try to plant the flag at OSU or not?
Did Kansas players refuse to shake his hand or not?
Did a Georgia player shout out that he needs to show some humility or not?
I am not making one freaking thing up. Your act is old and tired. Give it up. You are embarrassing yourself.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
It truly is this simple. He keeps saying there are no off field issues but there is video proof of one. His act is tiresome.
One incident doesn't constitute "issues."
If I fart one time do I have farting issues?
If I get drunk one time do I need to start going to AA meetings?
Seriously guys? It's not this hard...but hey whatever you want to think. The insistence that Mayfield has off field issues and is the next Johnny Manziel is what's becoming old.
