My plan is to watch at least 5 games of each top quarterback prospect. In addition to game film I will do some outside research to try and get a full picture of each prospect.
Need to get a few things out of the way regarding Baker Mayfield. First is his size. He is small, not fast but elusive, plays from a spread offense.
There are guys we can look to that because of his size there will be comparisons: Drew Brees, Russell Wilson, Manziel.
Mayfield's background and how he got to where he is; is a big part of who he is. He has carried a chip on his shoulder for a long time about being "too small". He has had some issues off field. There has been plenty written about it. They are not complete red flags but are note worthy.
The NFL in general wants quarterbacks to be bigger.
The Oklahoma spread. Very difficult to watch this offense and forecast the player to an NFL offense. The best you can do is try to watch plays post snap and then try and find plays that display like type conditions that he would later face.
He has a plus arm with a compact delivery. For the most part he shows good accuracy however, he does miss some open guys.
In the games I watched from this year he had good protection. When protection or time gave out he was more apt to leave the pocket and try to create. Not a pocket quarterback in general. He would fall into the scrambler category. Has that "make it happen" mentality as a passer or runner. Takes way to many "body" chances running the ball.
He can throw well off the run. He can throw from multiple platforms. Shows good touch.
He is tough. Plays with passion. Those traits are admirable but can lead to injury.
He has good instincts for the college game. But may find the NFL game very different. Playing under center and delivering the ball from set drops (3, 5 ,7) to timing patterns is different game. Not his fault but there will be necessary adjustments he will have to make.
Russell Wilson played from a more pro type offense coming from college. Drew Brees is a pocket passer. Manziel I will not get into. We dissected him enough. I will say as far as style of play coming from college he resembles Manziel the most. Part of that comparison is from the offenses they played in.
Accuracy in the NFL is a must. Mayfield has shown good accuracy. He also shows the ability to go to secondary targets at times. But the way they run that offense a lot of plays are per-determined pass plays and the receiver gets stared down.
In the end analysis there are things I like about Mayfield but there are things that give me pause. The most difficult part of evaluating Mayfield is forecasting his skill set to a NFL offense.
Some guys like Mariota who came from a spread offense were easier to evaluate because in Mariota's case post snap there were many options that required progression reads. In addition he was asked to do more and had more offensive responsibility.
We shall see how Mayfield stacks up against the other prospects.
I very much appreciate you taking the time to watch video and post here about what you saw. This part of what you posted should set off alarm bells with every Browns' fan, not to mention the Browns FO:
Quote:
He is small, not fast but elusive, plays from a spread offense.
You have to understand, the spread is where QB's come from these days. I talked about this 7 years ago and told people this was the trend to watch. Some will remember.
The pro game is starting to follow the college game. They have had to because the HS game and the college game produce spread QB's.
I will look at all the top guys and anybody that catches my eye.
When I am done I will compare some of them as it pertains to the Browns. Finally I will select the guy I would like to see with the Browns.
Of course it doesn't mean a thing. They will draw their own conclusions. So far they have never selected the guy I wanted.
The only time I felt it might happen was with Andrew Luck. But of course that was spoiled when Maurice Drew had the game that put the pick into the Colts hands.
Thanks for putting in all the effort. It sux that draftbreakdown is charging. I am not going to pay. Though I appreciate all the effort they put into doing the cutups.
Mayfield looks like the real deal, but so many others have as well.Seems like size is the biggest issue. And playing in the Big 12. I was listening to the Okie St game Saturday and one of the analysts made a comment about Rudolph but it applies to Mayfield as well. When was the last time a Big 12 Qb was successful in the NFL? Those funky offenses just don't prepare a guy for the NFL game. I think Mayfield has what it takes to be the exception. But when you start looking for exceptions you get yourself in trouble.
Speaking of Rudolph. Love the way he throws the ball but reminds me of Bryce Petty. I like Petty but the NFL game is too big for him. Hard to know what is in a players head so he could be different. He throws a nice ball but it occasionally gets away from him. Accuracy has improved from last year.
Intended to add thoughts on a few other players but need to leave for work. Will chime in a little later.
Everything I have seen from Mayfield (albeit I will admit is limited) he just screams johnny manziel 2.0 to me. Flash of good here, flash of good there, but just not cut out for the NFL.
I have also paid my only $2 a month for draft break down and have watched a ton of Mayfield. I will give you my thoughts.
-Has easy zip on short and intermediate passes.
-His long ball needs work with trajectory but has plenty of arm.
-accurate with ball placement and in general accuracy.
-throws a very catchable ball, knows when to zip it and when to put touch on the ball.
-very fast processor of information. His best trait. Has always been able to recognize when and where to throw it, so not an offense familiarity thing.
-sometimes he gets too antsy in the face of pressure.
-plus escapeability but sometimes tries to do too much.
-steps in the bucket a lot.
-he is short but thick. He is 6 foot, but an easy 220 lbs. Not at all like Johnny and much more similar to Dak and Wilson.
Overall, if he were 3 inches taller, he would easily he QB1. But he is 6 feet and teams will penalize that against him. IMO? Size is not a skill.
Mayfield is a very good prospect. He is Wilson 2.0, nothing like Johnny. He has had one off the field incident that was very public, but is reportedly a VERY hard worker. Has a big chip on his shoulder too. Personally I love his attitude.
Watched what they have on the draft breakdown site.
Also, saw the OK vs Ok State game live.
I've watched almost every one of Mayfield's games. But I'm a homer for OU too so I'm staying out of this. For the record, I'm not qb whisperer but I like the kid. He's a winner.
Natural leader. Good under pressure. Quick release. Good on his feet and throws well on the run. Good accuracy and touch on the ball. Tough kid all around.
Wish he was taller, had more experience under center and that he didn't have that Manziel moment on his record.
I've not paid the slightest bit of attention to other qb's. Like I said, I'm a homer. I watch OU and OSU, not college football. I'm not advocating he be our QB. Personally I'd rather Kiser work out for us so we can spend that pick on another necessary piece to the Browns puzzle.
Most feel like bigbaddawg mentioned, it was his first bonehead action so lets move on. I agree with sentiment. People like to forgive and as long as he uses it as a teaching moment people will. If he does it again, or something equally moronic, then I'd be concerned.
All caught on video. To be fair, it was a one time thing.
Peyton had a "manziel moment." Kizer has had a "manziel moment." Big Ben has had a "manziel moment."
I think what's more important is how he handles himself afterward.
I love that he's going to want to go out there every Sunday with a chip on his shoulder wanting to prove an "undersized quarterback" can play in the NFL.
Mayfield seems like the kind of kid that if.. big if.. he comes into the NFL and lights it up, I might love his cocky brash attitude and showmanship... but if he comes in and struggles those things wear on you quickly.
Unlike some of the old sticks in the mud around here, I like my players to play and carry themselves with some attitude.. I don't want them to hand the ball to the referee when they score, I want them to celebrate... I want them talking on the sidelines and, if necessary, getting in another players face if he does something stupid.. holding each other accountable... I want them to do a little trash talking in the media... all of this, of course, comes with the caveat, that they better be able to back it up on Sunday.. I want them celebrating go ahead scores in the 4th quarter, not 4th quarter scores that pull us to within 21. I do have my limits.
Touchdown his first play of the 2nd half, That's 3 today,
He just laid out a quick throw to a receiver that had beaten coverage, part with a pick, part with a double move fade deeper, a short pass and a long run nets a 50 yd Td pass.
Ehh. He'd be better than the pick of Justin Gilbert, could be worse!
If Mayfield is fake, Nick Saban will expose him in the final 4 if they get a chance to, Alabama vs. Oklahoma.
But at the moment he's a future NFL QB. I've said it before I don't analyze these guys but I'm not willing to bet against this kid at this point. Maybe that'll change...
It’s easy, after what Russell Wilson did on Sunday night (and what he’s done the last six seasons), to look back on his draft year and say, If he was 6' 4", he’d have gone in the Top 5 picks. It would’ve been a lot tougher to say such a thing before Wilson had started a single NFL game.
But that’s exactly what Pete Carroll said five years and a few months ago. Wilson had just beaten out Matt Flynn and Tarvaris Jackson for Seattle’s starting job, and I had Carroll on the phone a few days before the Seahawks’ opener against the Cardinals. Nationally, at that point, Wilson was more of a curiosity, especially considering the high-profile, first-round rookies who’d start that weekend: Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill and, ahem, Brandon Weeden. To everyone, at least, except Carroll and the Seahawks.
“[If he was 6' 4"], he’d have been vying for be the first pick,” Carroll told me then. “He has everything you look for—all the records, the numbers, he did everything. He’d be right up there with Andrew [Luck], and you’d be trying to figure it out. That’s my opinion. I just look at him, and think that there’s nothing he can’t do.”
Six years later, could all of that apply to Baker Mayfield?
Over the next four months, that’s what the NFL will be trying to figure out, as they assess the guy whose play has stripped Saturday night’s Heisman ceremony of any drama and made it a coronation. Mayfield, like Wilson before him, is an undersized, oft-overlooked star who needed to transfer just to assure that he’d even have a shot to play.
Based on the conversations I’ve had over the last few months with dozens of scouts, as well as what I’ve seen with my own eyes, I think I can make this one pretty simple: Baker Mayfield should be a first-round pick.
He’s short. So was Wilson. And to be clear, that’s not irrelevant. There’s Darwinism in the fact that most great NFL quarterbacks are tall. Seeing the field is a significant piece to playing the position, and that’s easier to do from higher ground. So the question is whether or not Mayfield is an outlier.
“He’s extremely talented,” said one AFC college scouting director. “Guys want to play for him, players believe in him, the staff believes in him. I’ve heard the comparisons to Brees, [Johnny] Manziel, Wilson, and there’s a little bit of all of them in his game. And he’s not Manziel in terms of the off-field stuff—he studies his ass off, he goes through his progressions, he’s not a typical spread QB. He has first-round ability.”
“Big-time competitor and winner,” texted an AFC exec. “He’s on the short side, but that’s O.K. He’s mobile. Accurate. Passionate. He’s gonna be good.”
The latter exec believes that Mayfield, who’s listed at 6' 1", will come in a shade over 6-foot, which is hardly a death sentence for NFL quarterbacks. In fact, it’d probably make him a shade taller than Brees and Keenum, and put him a couple inches taller than Wilson.
All of which, as another AFC college scouting director put it, “is a problem only if a team wants to make it a problem. If a guy can make all the throws, it’s not. If it affects his play on the field, it is. Johnny didn’t see the field well because he didn’t prepare. The others know how to find windows and throwing lanes. They’re used to being 6-foot, and aware of the issues. I don’t think it’s a problem for Baker.”
There are, of course, off-field flags with Mayfield. There was his February arrest for public intoxication, disorderly conduct, resisting and fleeing in Fayetteville, Ark. There’s the on-field antics too, most notably the crotch-grab that prompted coach Lincoln Riley to strip him of his captainship for his final home game.
And feelings on those incidents vary depending on who you talk to. Most scouts I’ve spoken to see his popularity with teammates and coaches, and his maniacal work ethic (which, again, Manziel lacked), and believe that, because his football character is beyond reproach, he’ll be O.K. A few others, on the other hand, see a punk who just doesn’t get it.
Either way, Mayfield promises to be the story of the combine and lead up to the draft in Dallas, and we’ll get to see him take on one more good test before then, against Georgia in the Rose Bowl (and maybe two, should the Sooners advance to play either Clemson or Alabama in Atlanta for the national title).
For now, though, my belief is plenty of teams see Mayfield as a second-round prospect, and enough like him to make it likely someone gets itchy and takes him in the first round. That is where I believe he should go.
With the benefit of hindsight, we now know Wilson should’ve been a first-round pick in 2012. Consider what Carroll told me then, when I asked what was unique about his rookie quarterback.
“Everything is,” he answered. “His smarts, his focus, his discipline, his work habits, his athleticism, his competitiveness, his confidence. Really, however you can rank them, he’s that high on that list in all those areas. Now, all of those of things will be in question in the real season, and he needs to back all that up. But if you observe him, if you know him, you think it’ll happen.”
It did, of course. And a lot of good NFL people believe it will for Mayfield, too. Which is why I’m pretty sure he won’t have to wait too long on draft weekend.
We get to keep the wrong one though, don't we 'Peen? What would be the point to it if we don't pick the "Trust me" QB?
But I agree with the idea. Kizer is starting by default IMO. Would what he has done net him The Man position? I do not believe so. We are playing him and hyping him as new and improved, but in terms of W/L production he is not viable at this time. He plays because of Hue and because of what backs him up.
Mayfields performance against UGA will be important for me. I haven't seen any of his games, so watching his next one on a big state against a great defense... cant wait.
Mayfield has been a bigger douche than Manziel in college. I can't believe that anyone would want the Browns to draft this guy.
Whomever drafts Mayfield will love him while the other 31 teams will hate him. Mayfield is the best quarterback in the draft and is not even close. Manning is a douche. Rivers is a douche. Brady is a douche. Give me the best player, the best teammate, the best leader, that's Mayfield.
He's exceptional from the pocket, leads receivers to yac, extremely accurate, very good on the run, keeps his eyes downfield, plays with attitude, ultra competitive.... I can't believe people don't want him. People who just compare him to manziel are being ignorant.
I'll take Mayfield and you can have any or all the rest of the quarterbacks in this draft and I will beat you. It's not rocket science....but some people say 6' no thanks. Incredible!
I believe people when they say that Baker Mayfield is a douche, but he's the "right" kind of douche. He has the work ethic and his team loves him.
But I'm liking what I hear about Rosen's talent. The thing I'm worried about is his attitude. What killed Manziel's career actually wasn't the drinking/partying or the fact that he was a douche getting into trouble. Those things were symptoms of the true problem, which was that he didn't have the work ethic/drive to be an NFL QB. If he drank his champagne while going over his playbook, or curled up in his swan boat to study, he would still be in the NFL. The fact that Rosen is a douche doesn't bother me, and the fact that Mayfield was arrested for being a drunken idiot doesn't bother me. What worries me is that Rosen might not have the drive/motivation to live for being an NFL QB.
Average Athleticism, average height, average to good arm. Some will love his passion, most won't.
I've seen some people compare him to Russell Wilson, but he is not even close to that athletic. He is a boom or bust prospect and will probably be the 3rd or 4th QB off the board.
It's to the point in this QB quest that I wouldn't mind drafting both Rosen and Mayfield.
Teams spend 2 first rounders to move up and get a QB. Why not spend 2 first rounders to get 2 QB's.
Increase your odds of getting a good qb. If both are good, you will be able to trade one.
Mayfield may only be available with the #1 pick, as any other team would jump to 2 and grab him. As Rosen, I believe would be available later than the top 5 picks in the draft, which I don't believe Mayfield will make it past the top 5, (actually #1) picks.
So if you seriously want both, don't be stupid and pick Rosen before Mayfield.
Mayfield has been a bigger douche than Manziel in college. I can't believe that anyone would want the Browns to draft this guy.
I just want to see the Browns win games, I think this guy is the best player available.
I don't give a rip about his personality or who he has offended. I don't even care that much about being right, anymore, just want to see the Browns start winning.
That's actually not too terrible.... arm strength was McCoy's biggest weakness, I think.
That said, I don't think a stronger arm would have made him a franchise kinda QB... it would have elevated him to upper-tier veteran journeyman instead of backup about to fade into obscurity.
"You can't go in and thinks he's going to be a Joe Flacco that can go play action and throw seventy yards down field but if you fit an offense around him he can be special..."
--Tim Tebow
That pretty much eliminates him from Hue's consideration.
I do not see what people see in Mayfeild. The NFL draft is almost entirely about projecting to the next level. Everytime I watch the Mayfield tape all I come away with is just how bad Big12 defenses are and #5 is lightning quick.
Wide open receivers, all kinds of time, rarely ever takes sacks or gets pressured and when he does get sacked it's because he is holding the ball (Browns fans know all about this), almost never throws into tight windows making it hard to gauge.
He is accurate throwing to wide open receivers and does make some nice throws into, I guess I would call it Big12 "tight windows". He can move a little, seems to do well keeping his eyes up field. I love his passion, I love his story being a walk on and winning the Heisman.
Look he put up gaudy numbers, but like I said the NFL is all about projecting to the next level. 6 foot tall, spread offense QB that has never really been hit or had to throw into tight windows. I have to pass. Some guys on the radio down here in Columbus are in love with Mayfeild, I just don't see the projection for taking where we are drafting.
Agreed. I just finished watching the Texas game and he's just gifted all of his offense. The pockets are always clean. The WRs are always open. His game winning touchdown vs Texas was from a TE breaking free down the right sideline on a streak. I just don't see anything pro when I watch him. He's not even accurate for the size of his pockets.
I don't think we will draft him. I think it will be either Rosen or Darnold.
I think it's going to be Rosen without a doubt. Darnold will stay in school, unless he exposes Denzel Ward and the rest of the OSU secondary more so than Indiana did or Oklahoma. I think that's an unlikely scenario. I do think Jackson will shoot up draft boards once coaches can talk to him. His football IQ is very underrated. Mayfield might drop a little with this next game and at the combine, he's not nearly athletic as the Big 12 makes him out to be, although he might not. He's very charismatic and will probably be a great interviewee, I have even found myself rooting for him as of late. Josh Allen will probably be taken after 25. He's just too raw. People think he's a stone that needs to be polished, I see him as a marble statue within the confines of the raw marble block. Either way he's a 3+ year project. That's what I think of the top 4 prospects and what we'll do fwiw.
The good news is that Dorsey really likes the kid!! A good coach like Matt Nagy could have him starting much like we seen Pete Carroll do with Russell Wilson. I love this potential pick. We just need to make sure we get Barkley or Penny to compliment him!
I rewatched the OSU game and Baker only went 3-7 on throws over 15 yards. I was very underwhelmed by his performance. I can't believe OSU's defense rolled over for them.
I rewatched the OSU game and Baker only went 3-7 on throws over 15 yards. I was very underwhelmed by his performance. I can't believe OSU's defense rolled over for them.
That's all you took away from that game was that he was 3-7 on throws over 15 yards and his performance was underwhelming?
You're right though....386 passing yards is pretty underwhelming. yeesh
I do not remember a lot of details of the game, but that's a lot of yards for someone who only completed 3 passes over 15 yards. Sounds like a ton of YAC.
What I remember most of the game was some genius trying to plant a flag in AstroTurf. Played an entire game on the surface and still thought he could get a flag in there.
I rewatched the OSU game and Baker only went 3-7 on throws over 15 yards. I was very underwhelmed by his performance. I can't believe OSU's defense rolled over for them.
That's all you took away from that game was that he was 3-7 on throws over 15 yards and his performance was underwhelming?
You're right though....386 passing yards is pretty underwhelming. yeesh
No, that was me being nice to him. He looked as athletic as Colt McCoy in that game. If Georgia respects Oklahoma's play action, then Baker will be in a lot of trouble during the bowl game.
Do we have any indication of if Baker Mayfield will attend the Senior Bowl? I can't really find anything.
A lot of voices I trust have said that if Carson Wentz declined the Senior Bowl, he likely would not have been selected 2nd overall.
I think Baker could dramatically increase his stock if he attends. Put some of those arm questions to bed, and show teams that the passion and enthusiasm is infectious to a whole new crowd.
I hope he does attend. That would go a long way towards ensuring that his name remains part of the conversation with Rosen and Darnold.
I think it's different for Mayfield than Wentz. But I'd like to see Mayfield go.
I believe Wentz had been hurt much of the season but came back to play late. I also think there was a question about Wentz's level of competition and the Senior Bowl would help his cause. There's no doubt Mayfield can compete with the best of them.
This decision alone has boosted Mayfield's draft stock, in my opinion. There will be some big arms there at the Senior Bowl, and his willingness to stand side by side with them shows a lot of courage. Mayfield won't ever have a high-end arm, but if he can convince coaches that he meets the baseline, then he ticks a big box.
I think Mayfield's arm is excellent. He is incredibly accurate in the pocket and on the run and he is significantly more athletic than some are giving him credit for. I like the fact that he was a baseball player growing up. In my opinion, QBs who played baseball growing up tend to be more accurate and are more mechanical sound throwing the ball (see Brees Wilson, Brady, etc.). I think the kid is a winner and will be successful in the Pros.
This decision alone has boosted Mayfield's draft stock, in my opinion. There will be some big arms there at the Senior Bowl, and his willingness to stand side by side with them shows a lot of courage. Mayfield won't ever have a high-end arm, but if he can convince coaches that he meets the baseline, then he ticks a big box.
Looking forward to seeing what he's got.
Agreed. I think Mayfield's biggest assets are all personality based too. He's a hard worker and a natural leader. Going from walkon to starting QB at two different college programs is an insane feat. I think a coach will fall in love with Mayfield during the drafting process.
Mayfield is gonna have to answer a lot of questions in the Georgia game. I'm still not sure he can win from the pocket against a good defensive team. It's easy to look good against the Big 12, but another thing to play against good defenses that have NFL players on them.
He and Oklahoma beat Ohio State. Handily. TCU also twice. Also handily. Although someone posted Mayfield really didn't impress vs buckeyes because he threw for 380+ yds but completed only 3 passes thrown over 15 yards.
So I guess you could say he can beat a team any number of ways. Mayfield is an absolute beast from the pocket. He has been better from the pocket than any quarterback in the draft. And yes, he can make all the throws.
Apologies. I didn't want to turn this into a Baker Mayfield thread, but just commenting on some questions/comments.
Lol he beat TCU twice? Does the Hall of Fame know this? Let's be real here, Mayfield's toughest opponents were OSU, Texas and TCU in that order. That's the only place you'll find NFL talent or coaching. OSU wasn't even that good this year, Indiana torched them in the air (Laglow put up 30 more yards) and they got blown out by Iowa. Texas has a 1st round safety and a 6th round cornerback as their NFL talent. And TCU has Gary Patterson, who is a great coach, but has never had the talent to win.
You know yards after the catch count as yards towards a QB's total passing yards, right? Have you rewatched the game or going on a memory you made in September?
My notes for the Oklahoma-OSU game with corresponding time stamps. These are all of the plays where Mayfield threw the ball. Not all the plays where he dropped back.
0:13:38 Chris Worley doesn't check the TE and bites on a playaction. Mayfield throws a 6 yard pass. Runs for 3 yards. 0:14:40 Throws it right at the defensive end on a screen pass 0:15:50 Baker throws a 7 yard strike between two corners to get a first down on 3rd and 7. 0:17:35 3rd and 4. Baker has a wide open WR in the flat who he leads out of bounds on a high and away throw. 0:18:20 4th and 4. Baker overthrows a WR on a go route 0:24:10 1st and 10. Baker throws a 7 yard pass to a WR running a button hook. WR runs for 5 yards for the first down. 0:26:00 3rd and 5. Baker hits a WR sitting in a zone for 16 yards. WR runs for 3 yards. First down. 0:26:28 1st and 10. Baker gets pressured and bails out to his left. He throws a 9 yard lazer while on the move to the sideline. Dropped by the WR. 0:28:00 3rd and 12. Baker checks down to a WR running a crossing route for 5 yards. The WR runs for 3 more yards. 0:39:49 2nd and 7. Baker throws it to a TE coming off a double move for 10 yards. TE runs for 8 yards after the catch. 0:41:03 2nd and 8. Baker throws a screen pass behind the line of scrimmage. WR runs for 12 yards after the catch. 0:55:09. 2nd and 14. Baker throws a swing pass behind the los. WR runs for 29 yards. 0:55:59 1st and 10. Baker gets flushed out of the pocket and throws the ball away after surveying the field for an open WR. 0:56:35 2nd and 10. Baker throws it to his TE for 4 yards. TE runs for 20 yards. 0:58:07 2nd and 6. Baker throws a great ball between the LB and SS to his WR coming off a slant patern. WR drops the ball, although one could argue that the ball is behind the WR. 1:04:45 1st and 10. Baker throws a swing pass to his RB 4 yards behind the LOS. RB gains 8 yards on the play. 1:05:15 2nd and 2. Baker throws another swing pass to his RB behind the LOS. RB runs for 14 yards after the catch. 1:08:30 1st and 10. Baker tries a deep ball for his WR. Places it on the WRs back shoulder right next to the sideline. Dropped by the WR. 1:25:56 2nd and 6. Baker throws a 4 yard dart to his WR who is coming out of a button hook. WR manages to get 3 yards after the catch. 1:26:25 1st and 10. Baker throws a 17 yard dart to his TE/WR?. The ball is placed a bit behind him, which makes his TE have to turn around to catch and halt his forward momentum. Gets tackled immediately after. 1:27:00 1st and 10. Baker has a WR coming off a button hook, but the ball is deflected by the DT at the line of scrimmage. 1:27:35 2nd and 10. Baker finds his FB running a circle route out of the backfield for 9 yards. The back runs 26 yards for the touchdown. 1:41:20 2nd and 30, ball is on Ok's 2 yard line. Baker is able to find a check down for 8 yards. 1:42:00 3rd and 22. Baker escapes the pocket and throws the ball to his RB for 10 yards. RB runs for 8 more yards. 1:48:25 1st and 10. Baker escapes pressure throws a 13 yard pass to his WR. WR is able to scamper for 4 yards after the catch. 1:49:06 1st and 10. Baker escapes the pocket and delivers a 25 yard pass over the CB. WR takes it another 15 yards after the catch. 1:49:45 1st and 10. Baker finds his WR running into the endzone and throws a 20 yard pass to lead him there. Touchdown Oklahoma 1:59:35 2nd and 10. Baker finds his WR running a drag route across the LOS. Delivers the ball to him and the WR runs for 15 yards after the catch. 2:00:23 1st and 10. Baker rolls out of the pocket and floats a 37 yard pass down field into double coverage. Both OSU players run into Oklahoma's WR and get a PI call. 2:02:30 3rd and 3. Baker finds his WR on a slant route for a 5 yard strike. 2:04:11 1st and goal. Baker climbs the pocket! and fits the ball nicely between a corner and an incoming safety for 6 yards that leads his WR right into the endzone. Touchdown Oklahoma 2:09:26 1st and 10. Baker delivers the ball to his RB behind the LOS. RB gains 5 yards on the play. 2:10:40 3rd and 8. Baker has his WR on a go route and throws the ball 23 yards to his WR's back shoulder right next to the boundary line. WR makes off a crazy college catch to get the first down. If he leads him it's an easy touchdown. 2:31:40 3rd and 9. Baker throws it to his RB behind the LOS. The RB gains 8 yards on the play. 2:39:20 4th and 8. Baker throws it behind the LOS to his running back. Running back gets tackled behind the LOS.
If I may make a suggestion...or I could send via PM....
You might think about list/sort the plays into categories that represent the skillset/traits that you/people isolate as important and that way it easier to quantify and compare against other teams and other prospects. Maybe include the standard plus/minus grade system for the plays.
I could post an example from another game....or if you don't mind i could chart this same game?
I'd love to see some different formats. Originally, I just wanted to see how yards after catch affected his overall passing yards (The ball only traveled 197 yards that game). Like halfway through, I realized how bad this format was, but just didn't know a better way to organize it without going to excel and rewatching all of the plays. Not to mention there are a lot of variables to keep track of, so I'm not sure if they deserve its own column or not. I also have no idea how to do a passing chart outside of photoshop which seems a little labor intensive for 9 AM.
One of the reasons I included the times tamps was so that the plays could be referenced easier by people on the forum. As strong as my internet tone is, I am by no means an expert on QB play and I welcome conflicting ideas and value how other people see the game. So please post it in this thread instead of PMing me, as hopefully other people will see how the data is organized and tries there hand at either this game or another game.
I'd love to see some different formats. Originally, I just wanted to see how yards after catch affected his overall passing yards (The ball only traveled 197 yards that game). Like halfway through, I realized how bad this format was, but just didn't know a better way to organize it without going to excel and rewatching all of the plays. Not to mention there are a lot of variables to keep track of, so I'm not sure if they deserve its own column or not. I also have no idea how to do a passing chart outside of photoshop which seems a little labor intensive for 9 AM.
One of the reasons I included the times tamps was so that the plays could be referenced easier by people on the forum. As strong as my internet tone is, I am by no means an expert on QB play and I welcome conflicting ideas and value how other people see the game. So please post it in this thread instead of PMing me, as hopefully other people will see how the data is organized and tries there hand at either this game or another game.
Thanks, Ed.
NP. Its nice just to talk football.
There are tons of different formats out there.
The most common way to grade film is to give each play +/- and to give notes like you did above. Imho the easiest way couch/office chair 'scout' is to have a sheet that list the traits you want to quantify/assess and for each play. Then you check the box that marks the trait you want to quantify. Then at the end you'll have numbers from your observations (if you like %s). And you can reference the plays that illustrate the traits.
I always try to start judging a prospect by watching one of the QBs "toughest" games..never highlights.
So much of what I saw Mayfield do in the game I watched, will not give the same result, playing in the nfl. Many of his completions, his offensive line gave him an "unrealistic" amount of time.
Got a lot of time before the draft and a lot of Mayfield video to watch...far from any conclusion.
Im very torn on Baker. On one hand his collegiate stats are off the chart. When you compare him to JFF Baker is better almost all across the board. My worry is he will end up like JFF and let fame go to his head and not work on football. At the opposite end of that he is not from an affluent family and doesnt have the celebrity status that JFF had so he may not fall into that and he seems.to have great leadership qualities. He could very well be a generational type talent.
Plus displays of arm talent: 13:17, 9:20, (2nd Q) 11:36 (3rd Q) 3:32, 3:00/?(...could argue IF he had a bigger arm could have lead the receiver) (4th Q) 11:19
Held ball/missed receiver: only a half minus @ 13:17 late on the Slant/Flat concept
Off backfoot: 9:37 (4th Q) 9:45
Off target: 4th Q 9:45 underthrown (almost caught; possibly an attempted backshoulder) Bad Decisions: / Tipped: /
Had a lot of gimme passes manufactured through the offense. Play-action quick throws swings, screens and hitches....but that's what you get with some spread offenses.
A QB can only execute the system he plays in and Baker executed a high level in this game...didn't really miss any throws.
Didn't face a lot of pressure or have to throw from muddied pockets.
When he was pressured handled it well and made plays. Threw a couple off his backfoot. Flashed good arm talent on some throws and good improvisational skills...plays with confidence.
Baker a lot of gimme passes manufactured through the offense. Play-action quick throws swings, screens and hitches....but that's what you get with some spread offenses.
A QB can only execute the system he plays in and Baker executed a high level in this game...didn't really miss any throws.
Didn't face a lot of pressure or have to throw from muddied pockets.
When he was pressured handled it well and made plays. Threw a couple off his backfoot. Flashed good arm talent on some throws and good improvisational skills...plays with confidence.
Plus displays of arm talent: 13:17, 9:20, (2nd Q) 11:36 (3rd Q) 3:32, 3:00/?(...could argue IF he had a bigger arm could have lead the receiver), (4th Q) 11:19
Someone posted a picture on twitter of Mayfield from the Heisman awards, but posted the wrong one, because Mayfield was standing next to Jackson, Peppers and Watson.
I noticed that Mayfield is only slightly bigger than Peppers, quite a bit shorter than Watson, and shorter than Jackson.
Peppers clocks in at 5'11" officially while Watson clocks in at 6'2".
It looks like Mayfield is, as suggested, going to check in at 6'0" rather than 6'1".
Personally, I don't really care. An inch or two likely makes a negligible difference. Personally, I care more about hand size, arm length and bulk. Not sure about hands and arms, but Mayfield is a stocky guy like Brees and Wilson, so that's a positive.
However, as has been mentioned, NFL teams can be really snobby when it comes to a shorter quarterback. I'm even more worried about him around the combine time when he'll be standing around with (Until further notice) the likes of Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Jackson. The guy is going to look like a midget.
While we all have our opinions on what difference it makes, I wonder if NFL teams will knock him for it.
I rewatched the game and put all my notes into a spread sheet with varying criteria. I got a lot of the same conclusions you did. One thing that I really noticed this game is how strongly he rotates his hips while throwing. It's like watching a lightweight boxer, he does it so quickly. The throw you mention how he could have a bigger arm, when I watched the play, I thought his footwork was limiting his arm strength on it. He sort of hops around and doesn't get his back leg into the throw like usual.
Should I pm thoughts on it? e.g. you don't really need to chart completion/incompletion for the QB evaluation because the receiver plays a big role in that...might think about charting something like whether the throw was on target or missed or target/location etc.
Definitely like the chart.
Quote:
The throw you mention how he could have a bigger arm, when I watched the play, I thought his footwork was limiting his arm strength on it. He sort of hops around and doesn't get his back leg into the throw like usual.
On the throw 3rd Q - 3:00. I'm not knocking his armstrength on this throw. That play was definitely a 'plus' play for me. He was on scramble throwing on the run while evading a pursuing defender. I don't expect a QB to have perfect mechanics on a throw like this.
However; a bigger arm QB could have made the throw further up field. The flip side of the coin is the receiver is running a corner route and it could be that Baker was just completing the route and could have thrown it further up field and chose not to. But if he was able to throw it further up field I would have given him the 'plus' on this throw for arm strength.
When chopping up film it hard to 'know' somethings with any degree certainty and I constantly try to remind myself to stick with clearly objective assessments when grading. Just to be clear I graded Baker as a plus for evasion and improvisation on this play and didn't grade him down on anything related to the throw.
...While we all have our opinions on what difference it makes, I wonder if NFL teams will knock him for it.
NFL teams will certainly knock him or any prospect when they are 'deficient' in a measurable/trait they track.
The NFL scouting processing is as much a risk mitigation business as it is a finding a special talent business. No staff or scout wants to be the guy to trumpet the exception and get it wrong. They would rather go the 'safer' route.
I say all that to say that Mayfield being 6'1 vs 6 foot could be the difference between top 20ish and bottom of the 1st beginning of the 2nd round.
So many people questioned Watson and many said he may tumble. Not sure why. All he ever did in college was win and he orchestrated a game winning drive in the championship. Yet, for some reason people questioned him. Who knows what Watson will be like when he returns in September, but from the games we did see him play he was superb.
Personally, I am looking forward to today's game and I hope Mayfield plays well and wins.
So many people questioned Watson and many said he may tumble. Not sure why. All he ever did in college was win and he orchestrated a game winning drive in the championship. Yet, for some reason people questioned him. Who knows what Watson will be like when he returns in September, but from the games we did see him play he was superb.
Personally, I am looking forward to today's game and I hope Mayfield plays well and wins.
I don't follow college football much, but thanks for posting that Mayfield was playing today. I'm recording the game and will watch his play.
My bad, I was a tad inebriated last night and confused the plays. I confused that play with the defensive pass interference play in at 14:38 in the 4th quarter. My mistake. I actually really liked how he dropped the ball right over the cornerback.
I'd be thrilled if the Browns drafted Mayfield. Not confident at all because Hue Jackson is still the coach. At this point I have no idea what his offensive scheme is, or what he is trying to do. Also, he does not protect rookie QB's as he should by running the ball. Hopefully he (Jackson) grows up in the offseason because IMO he can't get a damn thing right. /Rant.
Baker Mayfield is obviously physically talented. There will be two things people won't be able to get past, his height and off the field issues.
I don't think the height is a real issue, talent wins out. I have no clue about the off the field issues, but I think Mayfield's teammates and coaches will rave about him enough that it will lessen his problems.
i think his off field issues are way overblown. Sorry, but many 20 somethings out there have some dunken episode they wish they could take back. Crotch grabs and pole planting are trivial in the grand scheme of things - in my opinion.
I hope Hue and Dorsey are watching what QB play should be like.
i think his off field issues are way overblown. Sorry, but many 20 somethings out there have some dunken episode they wish they could take back. Crotch grabs and pole planting are trivial in the grand scheme of things - in my opinion.
I think we'll never know the extent of his issues, but I don't think the things we know about are all that serious.
I asked an opposing college coach for his thoughts after playing Mayfield-- his response "It was like he was playing a video game. We had no chance." Looks like the same thing here today.
So of off topic, but Roquon Smith is invisible out there. That's one thing that Baker deserves a lot of credit for: When all eyes are on him, he doesn't falter.
My thoughts on Mayfield's off field issues. I think he is a douchebag. But the kind of douchebag that you love if he is on your team but hate if he is on someone else's.
Has he done some stupid stuff (I want to use another S-word)? Most certainly. But he is nothing like JFF. By all accounts, Baker is dedicated to football and a hard worker. It sounds like he is a playbook bookworm, which is the exact opposite of JFF
Mayfield looks like of good in the Rose Bowl first half.
Looks like a young John Elway, in my opinion, Elway took two of his teams to the super bowl, on about his own, and had 2 of the WORST super bowl performances ever in the history of the game.
But without a defense, (they can't keep a rb from at least 10 yards each carry, and everything else on his shoulders.
I think, if you select Mayfield, other teams in your division will be forced to select players to try to combat him.
Ya'll see Baker Mayfield as one of the first in, pushing the pile to try get his RB over the line? Following play he picks up the first down on the sneak.
Kid can be 5'8" for all I care. He sure doesn't play like a little guy. That's all heart right there.
Baker is like Tebow, but can actually play QB..he's got all those other qualities like drive and passion. But he's got great instincts and it looks natural
Ya'll see Baker Mayfield as one of the first in, pushing the pile to try get his RB over the line? Following play he picks up the first down on the sneak.
Kid can be 5'8" for all I care. He sure doesn't play like a little guy. That's all heart right there.
I love the fight in him. No one is going to out fight Baker. Going from walk on to starter at two universities is unheard of.
At this point I don't think the choice could be any clearer for me. Draft Mayfield at #1 or bust. I hope the front office feels the same way. I swear to god, if they draft some QB just because he's tall and the guy can't hit the broad side of a barn I will die.
They pay a lot more, but the require a lot more work. You're constantly building meaningful relationships with people and watching a ton of film. If it's not film of your opponent, it's film of high schoolers. It's a lot of work.
I'm glad people are opening their eyes to Mayfield. I hope this momentum can get him to #1 overall. He isn't the physical freak that Allen is, the polished guy like Rosen is, or the high upside guy like Darnold. But he is smart, passionate and has a good arm.
I'll take the best player over those guys everyday.
Former Cleveland Brown DC Mel Tucker is the DC for GA. I would say he is an infinitely better DC than Stoops - so is Smart. They made the adjustments at halftime.
most of the time it just seems easy for him. Like he's playing a pickup game in the backyard.. then you watch the replay and see all the things he's doing to get the defense in the position he wants
I do think if we had never drafted Manziel, that opinions would sway on Mayfield...I mean I like him, he plays and works hard and has moxie...I however don't feel he is worth anywhere near a #1 overall pick...regardless where and when he goes, this is a great game.
I do think if we had never drafted Manziel, that opinions would sway on Mayfield...I mean I like him, he plays and works hard and has moxie...I however don't feel he is worth anywhere near a #1 overall pick...regardless where and when he goes, this is a great game.
This is what Hue said about Wentz. We know how that worked out.
I do think if we had never drafted Manziel, that opinions would sway on Mayfield...I mean I like him, he plays and works hard and has moxie...I however don't feel he is worth anywhere near a #1 overall pick...regardless where and when he goes, this is a great game.
This is what Hue said about Wentz. We know how that worked out.
Everything about Wentz and Mayfield are polar opposites...I see zero similarity between the two.
Mayfield really crumbled in that second half. A little concerning how much worse he looked when the coverage got tighter. Those are NFL window throws, and Mayfield didn't at all seem comfortable.
Baker played well, has cemented himself as worthy of a 1st round pick in my mind. However, he couldn't get much going after Georgia got his number in the second half. The windows were tighter, the pass rush was on him. Exactly what I wanted to see out of Georgia. Good game all around.
I thought Baker was a baller and has a lot of moxie. That said..he could have won that game with 3 or 4 passes he missed on. Looks more like Colt McCoy than Carson Wentz to me..
I agree. Georgia more talented. Oklahoma had the best QB. Disappointed we won't see baker next week.
Not sure I'd say Mayfield was the better QB. Fromm played well, even more so considering he's a freshman.
Originally Posted By: AlwaysABrownsFan
I thought Baker was a baller and has a lot of moxie. That said..he could have won that game with 3 or 4 passes he missed on. Looks more like Colt McCoy than Carson Wentz to me..
I've been saying a stronger armed QB for the past month.
Outside of good accuracy and some decent arm strength, I thought he was pretty meh. Nothing Oklahoma runs on offense resembles anything at the professional level.
If the Browns draft Mayfield, I'm switching to the Eagles.
I thought Baker was a baller and has a lot of moxie. That said..he could have won that game with 3 or 4 passes he missed on. Looks more like Colt McCoy than Carson Wentz to me..
I like Mayfield, I'm not against him, but we can't ignore that this draft lacks a definitive answer at quarterback. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered.
I like Mayfield, I'm not against him, but we can't ignore that this draft lacks a definitive answer at quarterback. There are a lot of questions that need to be answered.
Well everyone has their opinions but to me Mayfield is the definitive answer. He still put up 38 pts against a top 5 defense. I'm sure several people were expecting him get blown up, but even with an illness he played well.
His team scored 40+ points in 9 games including tonight. UCLA only did that 3 times. Too bad oklahoma doesn't have a defense.
I don't think it's close. Mayfield is the best quarterback.
I like Mayfield a lot. But he seems risky as a first round pick because of his size. Not sure he can throw it like Brees and he is not as strong as Wilson. What about Mason Rudolph?
I like Mayfield a lot. But he seems risky as a first round pick because of his size. Not sure he can throw it like Brees and he is not as strong as Wilson. What about Mason Rudolph?
Rudolph doesn't have the arm strength that Mayfield has. Baker much better prospect. Need to ignore height. It's not an issue for Baker.
horrible throw, but anyone else notice how little space the receivers are getting..GA is all over them
Quote:
One challenge for Mayfield-- doesn't pull trigger unless guys are way in the clear. Stays away from tight windows. That'll be a big adjustment at next level. Has to let it go.
horrible throw, but anyone else notice how little space the receivers are getting..GA is all over them
Quote:
One challenge for Mayfield-- doesn't pull trigger unless guys are way in the clear. Stays away from tight windows. That'll be a big adjustment at next level. Has to let it go.
horrible throw, but anyone else notice how little space the receivers are getting..GA is all over them
Quote:
One challenge for Mayfield-- doesn't pull trigger unless guys are way in the clear. Stays away from tight windows. That'll be a big adjustment at next level. Has to let it go.
horrible throw, but anyone else notice how little space the receivers are getting..GA is all over them
Quote:
One challenge for Mayfield-- doesn't pull trigger unless guys are way in the clear. Stays away from tight windows. That'll be a big adjustment at next level. Has to let it go.
The better evals are those who compare him to Johnny Manziel and consider him too short, or make up stuff about lack of arm strength, right?
Both are bad.
So my evaluation is bad because... it's accurate?
I'm not making stuff up about being weak armed or the next Johnny manziel or big 12 QBs never amount to anything.
If Mayfield was 2 inches taller he'd be the consensus #1 pick. He is not prototypical size, and he's been arrested. Those are the flaws that have been pointed out by several people. If those are the 2 reasons you don't want him so be it.
The better evals are those who compare him to Johnny Manziel and consider him too short, or make up stuff about lack of arm strength, right?
Both are bad.
So my evaluation is bad because... it's accurate?
I'm not making stuff up about being weak armed or the next Johnny manziel or big 12 QBs never amount to anything.
If Mayfield was 2 inches taller he'd be the consensus #1 pick. He is not prototypical size, and he's been arrested. Those are the flaws that have been pointed out by several people. If those are the 2 reasons you don't want him so be it.
The maturity lapses on the field are an issue as well. He could grow out of that, but that comparison to Manziel is real and could lose you a game or two.
The maturity lapses on the field are an issue as well. He could grow out of that, but that comparison to Manziel is real and could lose you a game or two.
Sorry, but the comparison to Manziel is not real. They are only similar in height, but Mayfield is almost an inch taller. There will be minor similarities naturally, but their games are completely different.
Oklahomas offense doesn't require him.to.throw to covered WRs. Im.not so sure Mayfield can put the ball in a tight window with a 320 lb lineman bearing down on him. Plus I just don't recall any qb in a Sooner uni being successful in the NFL ...Jason White ...Sam Bradford....nope I don't see it Some schools just don't produce certain positions in the NFL The Buckeyes don't put out NFL qbs but they do WRS and secondary players
The maturity lapses on the field are an issue as well. He could grow out of that, but that comparison to Manziel is real and could lose you a game or two.
Sorry, but the comparison to Manziel is not real. They are only similar in height, but Mayfield is almost an inch taller. There will be minor similarities naturally, but their games are completely different.
So you don't think he's had maturity lapses on the field?
The maturity lapses on the field are an issue as well. He could grow out of that, but that comparison to Manziel is real and could lose you a game or two.
Sorry, but the comparison to Manziel is not real. They are only similar in height, but Mayfield is almost an inch taller. There will be minor similarities naturally, but their games are completely different.
So you don't think he's had maturity lapses on the field?
As far as what? Crotch grabbing? I'm not denying he did it. But to know and understand the situation wouldn't deter me from drafting him. It would actually help especially being the Browns, we need passionate players in Cleveland. We need that. I love how he is determined to proove everyone wrong. It also helps he has all the tools you want in your quarterback. But ok yes, you should vet Mayfield and make sure these aren't reoccurring issues. I believe they won't be a factor.
The maturity lapses on the field are an issue as well. He could grow out of that, but that comparison to Manziel is real and could lose you a game or two.
Sorry, but the comparison to Manziel is not real. They are only similar in height, but Mayfield is almost an inch taller. There will be minor similarities naturally, but their games are completely different.
So you don't think he's had maturity lapses on the field?
As far as what? Crotch grabbing? I'm not denying he did it. But to know and understand the situation wouldn't deter me from drafting him. It would actually help especially being the Browns, we need passionate players in Cleveland. We need that. I love how he is determined to proove everyone wrong. It also helps he has all the tools you want in your quarterback. But ok yes, you should vet Mayfield and make sure these aren't reoccurring issues. I believe they won't be a factor.
Don't forget planting the flag at OSU, running from the cops, flipping the bird, etc... They are already reoccurring issues, but young players do stupid things. What you are calling passion, I am calling stupidity. That's the last thing you want from your QB because the rest of the team will be following that lead. Talent wise I'm really trying hard not to like the kid so much because of mainly this and also a little because of his height. If we don't draft Mayfield, I won't blink because I can't be a fly on the wall in the interview room.
There are 3 things about Mayfield that give me pause.
1) Height - not the biggest concern. Other 6'1" QBs around, it's harder but not impossible.
2) Game style - his game is a lot of movement out of the pocket. There have been a few QBs who can do that successfully, but most end up either hurt or gun shy after getting hit repeatedly by the bigger, faster NFL players.
3) Immaturity - crotch grab, flag plant, no handshakes, flipping the bird, running from the police. This is my biggest concern. This is where I see the Manziel parallel. Maybe he'll grow up, but maybe he'll be a major problem for whatever team drafts him.
The maturity lapses on the field are an issue as well. He could grow out of that, but that comparison to Manziel is real and could lose you a game or two.
Sorry, but the comparison to Manziel is not real. They are only similar in height, but Mayfield is almost an inch taller. There will be minor similarities naturally, but their games are completely different.
So you don't think he's had maturity lapses on the field?
even before the game. Reports of him throwing warm up passes at the heads of opponents are in another thread. This from yesterday: link.
Mayfield is very good from the pocket. He'll stand in there and take a hit. In fact I think he is as good or better from the pocket as darnold or rosen.
Mayfield is very good from the pocket. He'll stand in there and take a hit. In fact I think he is as good or better from the pocket as darnold or rosen.
I've not heard the no handshakes one.
the handshake one was actually Kansas not shaking hands at the coin toss. It got chippy from there and ultimately led to Baker grabbing his junk.
Looks to me like he was just warming up and Georgia players were yelling at him. Also reading that Mayfield typically runs routes in warm-ups. No maturity issue there.
I don't want to argue about this, but here are my observations about Mayfield:
Good:
--Nice arm
--Moxie
--Decent accuracy
--Buys time in the pocket
Concerns:
--Immaturity on and off the field
--Short
--Doesn't take standard drops [3, 5, and 7 steps]
--Feet are very loose. He reminds me of Manziel in this manner. Feet are way too happy and it's not even close to how you teach it.
--Plays in an offense that has him throwing to wide-open windows.
Conclusion:
I think he is a guy who should be drafted in rounds 2 - 4. I do not think he will be drafted in the top half of the first round. There is a chance that a team might take a chance on him in the second half of the first, but that would be a reach.
Looks to me like he was just warming up and Georgia players were yelling at him. Also reading that Mayfield typically runs routes in warm-ups. No maturity issue there.
Each team is permitted the use of one part of the field for warm ups. At times he likes to use both. That is a maturity issue.
Looks to me like he was just warming up and Georgia players were yelling at him. Also reading that Mayfield typically runs routes in warm-ups. No maturity issue there.
Each team is permitted the use of one part of the field for warm ups. At times he likes to use both. That is a maturity issue.
Apparently he also made a throat slitting gesture towards the Georgia players, which is why one of them was later captered on camera telling Baker to "humble yourself."
If he's still doing silly things, even if he knows the camera is on him, it concerns me.
It's still not the big deal it is made out to be. Within the context of competitive spirit, I'm fine with it. With that said, it's just another silly thing that won't fly in the NFL. At this point, he should be aware he needs to chill out.
That's why it concerns me. He lacks impulse control. I am not trying to deny his talent, he's a talented kid. But do you really want to invest a top 5 pick in a kid who does things without thinking first. Did we learn nothing from the 2014 draft where we wasted 2 first round picks on players who lacked maturity.
+1, he's immature just like Johnny"Drunk" Manziel, sad Heisman doesn't consider character anymore, we've dropped lots since Tebow. Any guy grabbing his crotch, making slashing signals, etc. flapping his arms....ya he's young but SILLY. Pass please, Randolph from OKL STATE gets my vote over him easily....Lamar Jackson would be a project, but what a possible upside....GO Browns!!!!
Yes but that I believe that was Kansas not Mayfield.
That's what I said, it was Kansas. There is no story on Mayfield where he instigated not shaking hands.
What prompted them to ignore a well established 'curtesy' and collectively snub him? Do you really think he did nothing to cause them to make that decision?
Yes but that I believe that was Kansas not Mayfield.
That's what I said, it was Kansas. There is no story on Mayfield where he instigated not shaking hands.
What prompted them to ignore a well established 'curtesy' and collectively snub him? Do you really think he did nothing to cause them to make that decision?
Yes but that I believe that was Kansas not Mayfield.
That's what I said, it was Kansas. There is no story on Mayfield where he instigated not shaking hands.
What prompted them to ignore a well established 'curtesy' and collectively snub him? Do you really think he did nothing to cause them to make that decision?
Being Baker Mayfield.
Yep. It was funny last night watching Georgia players tell at Baker, telling him to "humble yourself" after the game.
I saw a kid with a lot of talent that has a lot of question marks about that talent transferring to the NFL. I saw a kid that had a great first drive and then in the second half seemed to crumble under the pressure. I saw a kid who threw into double coverage when pressed and make a terrible overthrow that led to an interception.
Now don't get me wrong, the kid looked pretty good overall. But as far as being an NFL QB, I saw more questions than answers. But hey, he won one more game than Colt McCoy and seemed to scramble better than he did when the cops were chasing him. But he was drunk then, so there's that. lol
Yes but that I believe that was Kansas not Mayfield.
That's what I said, it was Kansas. There is no story on Mayfield where he instigated not shaking hands.
What prompted them to ignore a well established 'curtesy' and collectively snub him? Do you really think he did nothing to cause them to make that decision?
Apparently he also made a throat slitting gesture towards the Georgia players, which is why one of them was later captered on camera telling Baker to "humble yourself."
Would you prefer that he offered to make tea and crumpets for the other team between quarters.
Apparently he also made a throat slitting gesture towards the Georgia players, which is why one of them was later captered on camera telling Baker to "humble yourself."
Would you prefer that he offered to make tea and crumpets for the other team between quarters.
I'd prefer he just beat them on the scoreboard, and let his play speak louder than his actions. You cut out the part of my post that said I understand the competitive spirit, but at some stage one would think he'd want his play to speak for him.
On top of that, cocky nonsense doesn't help when you choke in the second half, and it costs your team the game - a game they were only in because his defense scored on a fumble recovery.
Apparently he also made a throat slitting gesture towards the Georgia players, which is why one of them was later captered on camera telling Baker to "humble yourself."
Would you prefer that he offered to make tea and crumpets for the other team between quarters.
I'd prefer he just beat them on the scoreboard, and let his play speak louder than his actions. You cut out the part of my post that said I understand the competitive spirit, but at some stage one would think he'd want his play to speak for him.
On top of that, cocky nonsense doesn't help when you choke in the second half, and it costs your team the game - a game they were only in because his defense scored on a fumble recovery.
we must have watched two different games..i watched GA defense make adustments second half and OU OC did not. Noone was getting open, they went away from the run. Yet when they fell behind, he came right back and tied it up with a TD drive...yeah sounds like a choke to me. Playcalling in OT is what did them in, plain and simple..nothing baker did. He completed the passes...they were stupid calls . Baker Mayfield was not the reason they lost. But continue with your agenda how he's a meanie
we must have watched two different games..i watched GA defense make adustments second half and OU OC did not. Noone was getting open
lol it's almost like Georgia was told to not leave their man in coverage and let the defensive line worry about the run. Have you ever watched an Oklahoma game before? This is as bad as your Cavs take, where you swear LeBron can't play basketball and Korver can't shoot.
Baker has had a few questions about his game. Can he actually escape the pocket? Can he make tough throws in NFL windows? Georgia made Baker try to answer these questions.
we must have watched two different games..i watched GA defense make adustments second half and OU OC did not. Noone was getting open
lol it's almost like Georgia was told to not leave their man in coverage and let the defensive line worry about the run. Have you ever watched an Oklahoma game before? This is as bad as your Cavs take, where you swear LeBron can't play basketball and Korver can't shoot.
Baker has had a few questions about his game. Can he actually escape the pocket? Can he make tough throws in NFL windows? Georgia made Baker try to answer these questions.
well you're wrong on both accounts, and clueless as ever. I never said they abandoned the pass....oh I forgot...baker isn't athletic enough to move in the pocket....lmao. that might be single dumbest thing I've ever seen someone say..
I like the way Mayfield plays but it's tough to draft a QB like Mayfield acts.
There has had to have been someone at that school in his ear telling him that he needed to grow up. The fact that he isn't listening to that person is a bad sign.
Handing an immature kid that doesn't want to listen millions of dollars and then trusting him to lead your team is not something I think the Browns will consider after JFF.
I like the way Mayfield plays but it's tough to draft a QB like Mayfield acts.
There has had to have been someone at that school in his ear telling him that he needed to grow up. The fact that he isn't listening to that person is a bad sign.
Handing an immature kid that doesn't want to listen millions of dollars and then trusting him to lead your team is not something I think the Browns will consider after JFF.
consider cam newton and winston all came with character questions...they seem to have turned out well..everyone matures eventually. If Hue is respected by players as reported..he would be able to reign it in and help him.. JFF wanted no part of it, and from what I've heard, the coaching staff did JFF no favors in that regard...he wasn't really wanted
I like the way Mayfield plays but it's tough to draft a QB like Mayfield acts.
There has had to have been someone at that school in his ear telling him that he needed to grow up. The fact that he isn't listening to that person is a bad sign.
Handing an immature kid that doesn't want to listen millions of dollars and then trusting him to lead your team is not something I think the Browns will consider after JFF.
consider cam newton and winston all came with character questions...they seem to have turned out well..everyone matures eventually. If Hue is respected by players as reported..he would be able to reign it in and help him.. JFF wanted no part of it, and from what I've heard, the coaching staff did JFF no favors in that regard...he wasn't really wanted
And they'll figure that out in the interview room but given the number of issues I just can't see how he can explain them all away.
Even at the bowl game with everyone watching and his draft status on the line, he couldn't help himself.
I very much appreciate you taking the time to watch video and post here about what you saw. This part of what you posted should set off alarm bells with every Browns' fan, not to mention the Browns FO:
Quote:
He is small, not fast but elusive, plays from a spread offense.
Just say "no" - please.
JMO.
For the record he is not SMALL...he is shorter than the prototypical QB but not Manziel Short. Closer to Aaron Rodgers short than Manziel Short...almost exactly same height as Brees but BIGGER... he weighs around 220 right now.
btw...to just say no is not that wise. He's a lot more than short and not fast. He's better than Rosen that I do know.
I posted this vid on a thread in the PFF. It got one reply, but the thread turned ugly and it was ignored. I want to post it here and see what you guys think.
I encourage you to watch the video w/the audio muted. Watch his footwork. Tell me how many times he executes a 3, 5, or 7-step drop. Tell me how many times he throws from clean pockets. Tell me how many times he bails at the first sign of pressure. Tell me how many tight windows he had to throw into. But, if all of that is too much.......just concentrate on his footwork and tell me how they translate to the NFL game.
I posted this vid on a thread in the PFF. It got one reply, but the thread turned ugly and it was ignored. I want to post it here and see what you guys think.
I encourage you to watch the video w/the audio muted. Watch his footwork. Tell me how many times he executes a 3, 5, or 7-step drop. Tell me how many times he throws from clean pockets. Tell me how many times he bails at the first sign of pressure. Tell me how many tight windows he had to throw into. But, if all of that is too much.......just concentrate on his footwork and tell me how they translate to the NFL game.
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Haven't watched that game. But, CHSdawg and I both charted and posted our thoughts from the Mayfield vs Ohio State.
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
All you gotta do is watch the video and tell me if the dude executes 3, 5, and 7-step drops.
It's not all that hard to do.
Did you comment in any way regarding the breakdowns and observations that CHS and myself made on the OU vs Ohio St. game?
Discussion is a 2-way street. It's not a request followed by a demand.
I like discussing prospects, breaking down plays and exchanging ideas. I would be more then glad to have an actual discussion.
How about this, why don't you look at and give your thoughts on the OU vs Ohio St. game and I'll look at the one you posted.
Just realized I missed some plays watching the wrong youtube (highlights) as opposed to cut-ups. Will update.....
Originally Posted By: edromeo
OU vs Ohio State
Baker a lot of gimme passes manufactured through the offense. Play-action quick throws swings, screens and hitches....but that's what you get with some spread offenses.
A QB can only execute the system he plays in and Baker executed a high level in this game...didn't really miss any throws.
Didn't face a lot of pressure or have to throw from muddied pockets.
When he was pressured handled it well and made plays. Threw a couple off his backfoot. Flashed good arm talent on some throws and good improvisational skills...plays with confidence.
Plus displays of arm talent: 13:17, 9:20, (2nd Q) 11:36 (3rd Q) 3:32, 3:00/?(...could argue IF he had a bigger arm could have lead the receiver), (4th Q) 11:19
I rewatched the game and put all my notes into a spread sheet with varying criteria. I got a lot of the same conclusions you did. One thing that I really noticed this game is how strongly he rotates his hips while throwing. It's like watching a lightweight boxer, he does it so quickly. The throw you mention how he could have a bigger arm, when I watched the play, I thought his footwork was limiting his arm strength on it. He sort of hops around and doesn't get his back leg into the throw like usual.
Worse yet, once he sees pressure or receivers actually covered as they will be in the NFL, his accuracy goes downhill fast.
Unfortunately, your analysis here is so far off base. You can say you don't like him but don't blatantly make stuff up that isn't true.
Quote:
It's just me, but I don't like shorter QB'S. Never have and never will.
Actually there are some GMs that feel the same. Dorsey isn't one of them.
Quote:
Only thing I see he's got going on is when he's got a clean pocket and a wide open receiver, he's dead nuts accurate.
He's also pretty darn accurate outside the pocket.
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NO WAY will we take that at 1 or 4. He'll be a Career Back Up in my book.
Dorsey will consider Mayfield and is hopefully not going to listen to the b.s. you have to take a 6'4" quarterback at #1 overall. Mayfield's game says starter not back up.
Quote:
Eotab. You need to dive into Rosen and Darnold, these 2 are far far above Mayfield as QB'S.
Maybe you should dive into Mayfield, he is simply not behind Rosen and Darnold and in fact is better than both in many instances.
Quote:
There is NO POSSIBLE WAY in hell that we will have him rated higher than Rosen or Darnold.
Many will. Many do.
Mayfield is smartest and safest choice of as the quarterbacks.
I don't care if it is a highlight reel or not or cut-ups of plays a poster selects while ignoring other ones. It's very obvious that Mayfield is not executing basic 3, 5, and 7-step drops. He drifts way deeper than most qbs. His feet are all over the place. He often throws w/his back foot ending up in front of his lead foot. His lower body mechanics are more akin to a baseball player's throw than an NFL QB.
He also bails out of big pockets way too early. He runs around a lot back there and that isn't going to cut it in the NFL. He is not nearly as elusive as guys like Manziel, T. Taylor, or R. Wilson.
I am not saying that he won't ever be good in the NFL, but no way is he a day one starter. He has a ton to learn. He's a project.
Combine that w/his character issues and there is no way I take this kid in the first round.
I don't care if it is a highlight reel or not or cut-ups of plays a poster selects while ignoring other ones. It's very obvious that Mayfield is not executing basic 3, 5, and 7-step drops. He drifts way deeper than most qbs. His feet are all over the place. He often throws w/his back foot ending up in front of his lead foot. His lower body mechanics are more akin to a baseball player's throw than an NFL QB.
His lower body mechanics are the reason he can throw a deep bomb so easily. Look at the torq he creates in his hips that help him launch the ball. When googling for a video of Baker's long ball, I stumbled upon this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AiYYUY9mls
Which is a breakdown of his throwing motion from a physics perspective. Baker will never have a super traditional throwing motion as his size won't allow for it.
I also agree with your takes on him bailing out of the pocket and not being nearly as athletic as JFF or Wilson. In fact, I would guess that only Rosen will be slower than him out of the top 4 QBs.
My opinion on Mayfield has not changed since I started this thread on 11/13.
For those that like Mayfield this is not a negative take. It is an observation based upon film study.
Let's start with the Oklahoma offense. Spread offense, no huddle, shotgun formation. Not once did I see Mayfield play under center. So he is not asked to turn his back on the defense. He does not use play action. His receiver routes are not tied to the timing of 3, 5, 7 foot drops.
This is not his fault. The OK offense is what he has learned. He knows that system very well and executes their offense at a high level.
The issue is: It presents a longer learning curve into NFL offensive concepts.
Accuracy in the NFL is a must. Mayfield has shown good accuracy. He also shows the ability to go to secondary targets at times. But the way they run that offense a lot of plays are per-determined pass plays and the receiver gets stared down.
Physically Mayfield is at a disadvantage. He is not tall, or fast. He has to create passing lanes to throw. He often bails from the pocket early to see the field. I have seen him chased down by lineman. Because he often runs and his passion to succeed drives him to make things happen; injury in the NFL is a concern. He is a long way away from Russell Wilson who knows how to play small. Wilson plays with radar and antenna and knows how to protect himself.
A case can be made for Mayfield has the third quarterback taken. But One and Two belong to Rosen and Darnold after them there is a significant drop off.
That in no way means Mayfield can not succeed. He is simply behind Rosen and Mayfield. They are better pro prospects because they have more physical skills, more experience in pro type concepts, and will have less of a learning curve.
That in no way means Mayfield can not succeed. He is simply behind Rosen and Mayfield . They are better pro prospects because they have more physical skills, more experience in pro type concepts, and will have less of a learning curve.
I also agree with your takes on him bailing out of the pocket and not being nearly as athletic as JFF or Wilson. In fact, I would guess that only Rosen will be slower than him out of the top 4 QBs.
And not by much. There are reports that Mayfield will run around a 4.85 in the 40.
I don’t get the Mayfield talk on this board. It’s the only place I’ve seen anyone suggest he’s an option as the number 1 overall pick. If we didn’t have the 1st and 4th picks in the draft and 2 other QB rated significantly higher than him. I could see the love. Maybe for the QB needy team that has a pick in the middle of the first but there is no way I’m wasting the top pick on him.
I don’t get the Mayfield talk on this board. It’s the only place I’ve seen anyone suggest he’s an option as the number 1 overall pick. If we didn’t have the 1st and 4th picks in the draft and 2 other QB rated significantly higher than him. I could see the love. Maybe for the QB needy team that has a pick in the middle of the first but there is no way I’m wasting the top pick on him.
What got my attention focused on Mayfield was that the former GM of the redskins (Scot McCloughlin?) apparently said that Mayfield was he top draft eligible Qb and that he would build a team around him. This was a few months ago.
I don’t get the Mayfield talk on this board. It’s the only place I’ve seen anyone suggest he’s an option as the number 1 overall pick. If we didn’t have the 1st and 4th picks in the draft and 2 other QB rated significantly higher than him. I could see the love. Maybe for the QB needy team that has a pick in the middle of the first but there is no way I’m wasting the top pick on him.
Most of what you hear/see is media driven. Despite the rumors you hear about Mayfield, he will absolutely be a top 10 pick and some will rate him the top QB in the class. A guy like Allen probably will fall. All the hype are the people in the media that love their quarterback to look like a quarterback. Allen has accuracy issues. It's aiken to why the media went from predicting Kizer as the #1 pick a year ago to actually being drafted in the 2nd round. There's more to a quarterback than being 6'4" with a rocket arm. More GMs/executives will have Mayfield rated higher than Allen.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
I’m not saying he isn’t getting drafted high. He probably will. QB are always overvalued in the draft. He will probably go in the first round and he should. All I’m saying is I haven’t seen anyone other than posters on this board claim he’s the best QB in this draft. The fact is he’s the 3rd rated QB at best and there is no possible way he should be considered with the #1 overall pick.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
You're way off base, but whatever you want to think.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
You're way off base, but whatever you want to think.
Please elaborate where I am off base.
Was he arrested or not?
Did Patterson accuse him of throwing and injuring one of his players during the pregame warm-ups or not?
Did he grab his crotch or not?
Did he make the slash sign or not against Georgia?
Did he try to plant the flag at OSU or not?
Did Kansas players refuse to shake his hand or not?
Did a Georgia player shout out that he needs to show some humility or not?
I am not making one freaking thing up. Your act is old and tired. Give it up. You are embarrassing yourself.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
Furthermore, if you combine that off field issue w/his on-field issues, such as intentionally throwing a ball at an opponent before the game and injuring him; grabbing his crotch; giving the slash sign to opponents; trying to plant a flag in an artificial surface at an opponent's stadium; drawing the disdain of opponents on multiple teams, etc and then factor in that he is a pint-sized qb who isn't fast and and has played in a gimmicky offense................it's not hard to understand why he isn't going to be drafted high.
You're way off base, but whatever you want to think.
Please elaborate where I am off base.
Was he arrested or not?
Did Patterson accuse him of throwing and injuring one of his players during the pregame warm-ups or not?
Did he grab his crotch or not?
Did he make the slash sign or not against Georgia?
Did he try to plant the flag at OSU or not?
Did Kansas players refuse to shake his hand or not?
Did a Georgia player shout out that he needs to show some humility or not?
I am not making one freaking thing up. Your act is old and tired. Give it up. You are embarrassing yourself.
One incident means issues. Just like Prescott. Got it.
You said he "no off field issues." That was incorrect.
It truly is this simple. He keeps saying there are no off field issues but there is video proof of one. His act is tiresome.
One incident doesn't constitute "issues."
If I fart one time do I have farting issues?
If I get drunk one time do I need to start going to AA meetings?
Seriously guys? It's not this hard...but hey whatever you want to think. The insistence that Mayfield has off field issues and is the next Johnny Manziel is what's becoming old.
He tried to run from the cops, to me that’s a little bigger then just getting drunk. Some people are gonna give him a pass on it and that’s fine, I’m just not one of them.
I'll be real clear.............I believe the comparisons to Manziel are unfair.
I believe that because Manziel had a ton of more talent than Mayfield has. They are similar players, but Manziel could play ball. Dude was awesome. His personal life got in the way of greatness.
But make no mistake, Mayfield isn't a pimple on Manziel's ass in regards to talent.
I'll be real clear.............I believe the comparisons to Manziel are unfair.
I believe that because Manziel had a ton of more talent than Mayfield has. They are similar players, but Manziel could play ball. Dude was awesome. His personal life got in the way of greatness.
But make no mistake, Mayfield isn't a pimple on Manziel's ass in regards to talent.
Other way around. Mayfield is far more talented than Johnny. I loved Johnny but Mayfield does just about everything better than Johnny. Stronger arm, more accurate, reads defenses, much better leader. Johnny was only good at escaping. Johnny was a backyard quarterback, Mayfield is more structured. Johnny can't hold a candle to Mayfield.
He tried to run from the cops, to me that’s a little bigger then just getting drunk. Some people are gonna give him a pass on it and that’s fine, I’m just not one of them.
My problem is that he couldn't escape the cops. I get that he was in a drunken stupor, but those cops looked like they spent more time at Dunkin than at Station.
He tried to run from the cops, to me that’s a little bigger then just getting drunk. Some people are gonna give him a pass on it and that’s fine, I’m just not one of them.
My problem is that he couldn't escape the cops. I get that he was in a drunken stupor, but those cops looked like they spent more time at Dunkin than at Station.
If you get he was in a drunken stupor then you know his motor skills were completely shot and he probably thought he was running like speedy gonzalez instead of elmer fudd.
He tried to run from the cops, to me that’s a little bigger then just getting drunk. Some people are gonna give him a pass on it and that’s fine, I’m just not one of them.
My problem is that he couldn't escape the cops. I get that he was in a drunken stupor, but those cops looked like they spent more time at Dunkin than at Station.
If you get he was in a drunken stupor then you know his motor skills were completely shot and he probably thought he was running like speedy gonzalez instead of elmer fudd.
Drunken kids turn into Reggie Bush every weekend in the college towns across the nation. I've seen dudes the size of William Perry take off like a Gazelle.
So you can't pass a field sobriety test walking a straight line but you can run as fast a Reggie Bush? Is that into a light pole?
Okay the picture in my mind of William Perry as a gazelle is really funny!
Edit: I was never interested enough before to even watch the arrest video. So I just did. Baker only got 3 steps, hardly enough time to build up any speed, when glazed donuts took him down because he had the angle on him.
A really stupid decision but a drunk 21 year old making a stupid decision isn't that shocking.
Ok. EO: "He's better than Rosen that I do know." =============================================== Just curious.
You threw that out there. What makes you say that?
Make your case why.
The Oklahoma game vs Georgia, Oklahoma's D was giving up 16 yd runs multiple runs in that range in the first quarter, and mostly didn't stop the run all day. If Mayfield's not there that games not even close.
Ok. EO: "He's better than Rosen that I do know." =============================================== Just curious.
You threw that out there. What makes you say that?
Make your case why.
Tried to look for that in this thread and didn't find it. Is it from another thread. I know I said something like that to bust Vers' chops somewhere cause he is so into Rosen...lol
But I do think Mayfield is more accurate. I know Vers criticized him...in a exaggerated fashion but I will say this. If his techniques are so bad how has he been the most accurate QB in college the last 2 seasons and he doesn't dink and dunk? If he is that good in accuracy what happens after a teams fixes and improves his technique...the kid reminds me of Rodgers who can throw from any position going anywhere and be accurate and have some zip on it too.
Also I can't believe in searching for a post that I made like on page 5 edromero posted a play where Mayfield throws a pass right on the hands of the WR and he criticizes it saying a stronger armed QB would have thrown it more down field...ya mean like Kizer does way over the WRs head as for the arm part...he freaking did what he did with a jump pass 20 yards on the money!
EO... you like Mayfield and that’s fine, and I’m not defendind what anyone has said to you about him, I personally don’t like him all that much, just MO on him.
His arm is adequate, don’t know if I’d say he has a big arm but it’s goid enough. The offense he plays in is very QB friendly and he’s got some weapons there that will play on sundays. I don’t like that offense he comes from, those guys do struggle for the most part when they get to the nfl. The biggest thing for me is the arrest and how he acts on the field, he just tends to be very arrogant to me. And I’m not just talking about the Kansas game. Just not sure I’d want that type of kid to be the leader of our team.
I know it sounds like I’m attacking the kid but I’m not trying to, it’s just my take on him. But I’m very critical of all the QBs. Every year. The last QB I ever really liked and didn’t have a lot of questions on was Wentz. You may very well be right on him. I won’t tell you your wrong. You have your take I have mine. I just hope whomever we draft turns into something.
I'll be real clear.............I believe the comparisons to Manziel are unfair.
I believe that because Manziel had a ton of more talent than Mayfield has. They are similar players, but Manziel could play ball. Dude was awesome. His personal life got in the way of greatness.
But make no mistake, Mayfield isn't a pimple on Manziel's ass in regards to talent.
Other way around. Mayfield is far more talented than Johnny. I loved Johnny but Mayfield does just about everything better than Johnny. Stronger arm, more accurate, reads defenses, much better leader. Johnny was only good at escaping. Johnny was a backyard quarterback, Mayfield is more structured. Johnny can't hold a candle to Mayfield.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Oklahoma run that offense where they check with the sideline before taking the snap? You know when you see the QB look to the coach?
But I do think Mayfield is more accurate. I know Vers criticized him...in a exaggerated fashion but I will say this. If his techniques are so bad how has he been the most accurate QB in college the last 2 seasons and he doesn't dink and dunk?
I feel I need to clarify my position after reading this.
I was talking about Mayfield not taking standard 3, 5, and 7-step drops. He hasn't been asked to do that.
I was also talking about him drifting much too deep when there isn't that much pressure there.
I was talking about him throwing off balance at times and compared some of his throws to a baseball throw. Watch some videos [and yes, they can be highlight videos] and see how he has a propensity to end up w/his back foot in front of his lead foot at the conclusion of his delivery.
I was talking about him mostly throwing into wide-open windows.
I was talking about him not standing in the pocket long enough at times.
These things will all have to addressed when he goes to the NFL. He will be a project that is going to need time to develop. I think he would be a risky pick in the first round, especially given his character concerns.
I have never knocked his arm strength or accuracy in throwing to open receivers. I think he does some good things w/his feet, such as pivoting both at the same point to stay balanced. Pretty good triangle. I also have no problem w/his upper body mechanics, although I didn't study those because I was so busy watching his feet.
Your 100% right .... he has flaws with his feet .... he has no timing or rhythm in his throws as far as X number of steps and get rid of it .... he has no clue what a 3-5 or 7 step drop is everything he does is hodge podge .... he moves out of the pocket way to quick way more than he should ... hes also very hard to evaluate with the wide open windows he throws to and the number of “gimmicky” throws he makes .... he also throws off his back foot and fading back way to much ....
He has his warts ...
As u admitted and tabber has said all along there’s no denying he’s very very accurate ... and as bone has pointed out many times he can only run the offense he’s asked too .... its not his fault hes in a BS offense to evaluate NFL QB’s in .. *L* ...
He does run it very very well ... and he is very accurate .... DESPITE all his “timing issues” in his drop steps and release times he is in SYNC WITH HIS RECIEVERS .... and thats the timing that counts ... despite the fact he throws off his back foot and fading back he gets the ball to where its suppose to be going and he gets it there accurately ....
I agree with both U and tabber in that no way do we draft him at #1 ... NO WAY ...
And given what I’ve seen of Rosen (still haven’t watched Darnold yet) there’s no way I’d pass on Rosen at #1 to take Mayfield at #4 with the unknowns about Mayfield (through no fault of his own ...) and his height ....
bonefish...I know you don't mean to insult me....but I could give two craps about STATS. When I say most accurate I'm not talking about his 2 years of 70+% completion. I'm talking about watching the game and hitting the WRs in the hands and where they can get the most YAC at I'm talking about hitting 20+ routes right on the money.
Spread offenses? got news for you all these are comments that actually meant something 5+ years ago. Now a days they all seem to be spread offenses with the pistol etc.
I've seen Mayfield under center not too often but he is excellent in his play action.
Sometimes his WRs are wide open but I've seen him hit enough tight windows to feel confident in his accuracy being legit.
Granted there are 3 categories for Mayfield.
Those who believe in his skills, Those who loathe him cause of his media coverage. Those who thinks he's just ok.
Vers that was funny...Manziel more talented. You have stooped pretty low. You mean the kid who had 20 plays in college is more talented. The kid who doesn't know what to do in the film room. The kid who doesn't know how to execute a game plan. Yes he had more speed than Mayfield. Yes he had Evans who he could put the ball in the air and have him go get it. But Mayfield is more accurate than Manziel and has an equal arm strength.
don't worry we will not take him At #1 so odds are he won't be on our team. But you got all upset cause posters were actually liking Mayfield and thinking he is better than Rosen and others. How dare they...lol
Listen the height will have him drop just like Rodgers and Brees dropped. So no way he will be taken #1
Possibly #4 if we fall in love with him. Actually he's a football player that normally you would love if you weren't so political about Rosen being the guy. Rosen actually scares me.
Mental Attitude as well as Physical problems. He could be F-R-G-I-L-E, I think its Italian. Will he want to play here? Would he be a problem if he sits for a vet we get like Alex Smith. Is he a winner? That extra something. And he is not as accurate as you boast. He is very technically sound and has an excellent release and good footwork, he has been groomed at QB since he was a kid. He has a 6'4" Frame but right now weighs the same as Mayfield.
I don't know him well enough to say for sure negative things. But something just doesn't sit right with me regarding him. You act like he is Luck coming out but he is not.
You're funny as you call posters stupid and clueless if they don't agree with your analysis.
Act getting old...you mean actually knowing about QBs, not just the lingo and pretend I know. You know how you with certainty stated that 4 point stance for DE's is slow to be better for the run game...when actually technically it is the opposite.
My act is old? You mean I don't revere you as the know everything act. You can fool most on this board. But you don't know as much as you think you do especially about QBs.
HAven't watched a lot of Mayfield. Missed the tOSU game and only got to see a little of the game vs Georgia last week. There was one play that really impressed me in the 1st half of Georgia game. He actually moves the safety with his eyes to open up the receiver that he eventually completes the pass too.
Yes, I believe Mayfield to be the most accurate passer in the draft. He's also the most efficient within the pocket. If he doesn't have a stronger arm than Rosen it's pretty darn close.
I think if you want your quarterback to look the part, there's no doubt Rosen is your guy. I think there's a lot more than just looking like a quarterback. I don't think Rosen can hold a candle to Mayfield's heart. Rosen is rumored to be in this just for the money. Not something I want from my #1 pick.
In my mind Mayfield and Rosen are the top 2 as they both can start right away. If Dorsey isn't high on Rosen I can see the debate for us being Darnold vs Mayfield.
I think he can make throws but I’m very skeptical of him being a film junky and setting himself apart mentally and therefore his inability to wow me with his play making ability or rise to the occasion against Georgia makes discouraged. I was more surprised at how his coach did not put the ball in his hands to win but that could be a criticism of the coach or an indictment on the player.
Rosen has not been quoted at all. The only thing he said was I would like to go to the right team not necessarily the first pick. I don't think that is a damning statement.
Money? He is from a wealthy family. Besides who doesn't want money. I don't see anyone giving paychecks back.
It's a new year and just after Christmas....it's nice that civility has continued into the new year. JMHO, Mayfield is to much like Johnny for me- I'm old school, don't want him representing our brand. Rosen scares me due to his concussions and thin frame, he won't last as long as Johnny did before being hurt....Donald or maybe OSU....I trust Dorsey and company...I'll back their pick at QB....would love Smith on team....GO Browns!!!!
So you can't pass a field sobriety test walking a straight line but you can run as fast a Reggie Bush? Is that into a light pole?
Okay the picture in my mind of William Perry as a gazelle is really funny!
Edit: I was never interested enough before to even watch the arrest video. So I just did. Baker only got 3 steps, hardly enough time to build up any speed, when glazed donuts took him down because he had the angle on him.
A really stupid decision but a drunk 21 year old making a stupid decision isn't that shocking.
It just occurred to me that we've been reduced to breaking down tape of players' drinking binges.
So.... I think the takeaways here are that he lacks recognition skills; if he could have read what he was facing, he'd have scrambled away better. The fact that JellyDonuts caught him also re-frames his athleticism - clearly it isn't as elite as his hype videos would have you think.
So you can't pass a field sobriety test walking a straight line but you can run as fast a Reggie Bush? Is that into a light pole?
Okay the picture in my mind of William Perry as a gazelle is really funny!
Edit: I was never interested enough before to even watch the arrest video. So I just did. Baker only got 3 steps, hardly enough time to build up any speed, when glazed donuts took him down because he had the angle on him.
A really stupid decision but a drunk 21 year old making a stupid decision isn't that shocking.
It just occurred to me that we've been reduced to breaking down tape of players' drinking binges.
So.... I think the takeaways here are that he lacks recognition skills; if he could have read what he was facing, he'd have scrambled away better. The fact that JellyDonuts caught him also re-frames his athleticism - clearly it isn't as elite as his hype videos would have you think.
I will agree that he didn't go through his progressions and made the decision to scramble based on information that clearly didn't include JellyDonuts. But to say 'we've been reduced to' is a bit harsh when I was actually thinking this could be a step up.
as for the arm part...he freaking did what he did with a jump pass 20 yards on the money!