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we have 8 players with more than 5 years experience.

we have 3 players that have more than 7 years experience and one of them is a punter.

We have 51 players with 3 years or less experience in the NFL.

If we don't churn the roster in the off-season, we should see a lot of growth in players next year and most won't even be in their prime.

They truly built this team through the draft.

Nice post, Pit! I think you brought up a good point about the tackle position that I didn't really consider.

I agree w/just about everything you said. Hard to believe, huh? LOL

I want Rosen and the Fitz. That would be freaking huge for this franchise. Combine them w/Myles and you have real building blocks for the franchise.

I also think we need a craft route runner at WR. Jarvis Landry would be huge, but even someone like Danny Amendola would be helpful.

I wanted Amendola last time he was on the market. It didn't go over well on the board. lol He has sure hands and would be very helpful converting on 3rd downs.

I didn't say anything about firing Hue did I?


The answer is no.


I can't help it Hue hasn't won any games except for a fluke blocked kick.

I have to live with Hue as coach. You have to live with he hasn't coached us to a win unless you think he coached us in to a blocked kick victory.


I get it! Pun intended. Hue is back next year. It's going to be great. Go Browns.

Judging by what Dorsey has done in the past, I don’t see us taking Barkley. Fitzpatrick could be an option though, he likes DBs. As for the WRs he’s taken he tends to lean towers more explosive type of players, when the combine gets here watch the verticals.

I'm going to try to do this two ways

I'm going to start with what I think are the top 10 positions by importance to any NFL team starting from scratch.

1) QB
2) Pass Rusher
3) Left Tackle
4) Left Corner
5) Wide Receiver
6) Right Corner
7) Free Safety
8) 2nd Pass Rusher
9) Main DT
10) 2nd Pass catching target

These are the basic building blocks that in my opinion you build a team on. I know people can easily argue with this list, especially the bottom of it, and there are several ways to skin a cat, but it's my post so I'm going with the way I would build it.

This is where you want a majority of your young talent.

1) QB - Obviously our biggest need. With Kizer an unknown at this point, we need a QB of both the now and the future. I am a big fan of signing a vet and drafting a QB.

2) Pass Rusher- We are set here with Myles Garrett

3) Left Tackle- You would think we would be set here, but JT may be retired by the time we really need him. I really wish I knew how well Roderick Johnson looked to coaches before he got hurt. We may need a JT replacement, we may just need a swing tackle. Despite how well Drango did, he is not an LT.

4) Left Corner - McCourty deserves a medal for how well he did at the spot but he is on the wrong side of 30 and should be playing on the right.

5) Wide Receiver - Do we trust Gordon to stay out of trouble? Coleman to stay healthy and improve? We just need a ton of help here, starters and depth.

6) Right Corner - Even if we move McCourty here we need one for the future. Taylor and BBC are both nickel corners at best

7) Free Safety - A huge need here. And before some numb-skull mentions it, a free safety that is a big hitter is not our most important need. A FS with range is the most important need. If he isn't a huge hitter, but can police the field he'll make our corners look much much better. Why so many people like SS types as FS's and FS types as SS's is beyond me.

8) 2nd Pass rusher - If Ogbah hasn't hit his ceiling, or Nassib for that matter, I think we're okay. When our DB's aren't giving 50 yard cushions, we'll start to get sacks.

9) Main DT - We have Shelton here. We also have a lot of young DT's with promise. I think we are okay this year. If we get another, that's great too!

10) 2nd Pass catching target - For some teams this is the TE position and it may be the same for us. We have two young TE's and TE's don't really start to get it until their 2nd or 3rd year. Hopefully, we'll be going after multiple WR's and we'll improve here one way or another.


Now the team specific needs...

1) QB - Notice how it's at the top of both lists? It's that important to figure it out.

2) FS - A FS with range will suddenly make our corners look that much better. It is one of those building block positions, so hopefully in the draft or a young FA if we go the FA route.

3) WR - We do not need a speedster. We have those. We need a big physical pass catching machine. Hue has tons of vertical routes so the speedster is important as well, but those speedsters will only get open when there is a credible safety valve for the QB.

4) Left Corner - I like big press corners and I believe all of the decision makers for the Browns do too, so this should be accomplished next year.

5) WR - Just see #3, one of these WR's could be and probably will be a FA.

6) RB - I like Barkley at #4. I think he is very special. Unlike most, I think he is as special as Zeke was coming out. All that said, RB is so deep in this draft it is nuts. There will be a UDFA RB in this draft that will most likely make a run at rookie of the year. It's just that good. We'll get a RB somewhere in this draft and maybe two because it is so deep.

Notice how every position on my 2nd list is also on my first list except for RB? If I would have did a top 11 instead of a top 10, RB would have probably been the next one, but RB's are so easy to get. My 2nd list is 6 picks long which means that everything on that list could be addressed by the 3rd round of the draft. We are also going to have lower picks and free agents, so everything on the first list should be addressed as well.

It's hunting season and with our picks and cap space, we are loaded for bear. Let's just hope beyond hope that our aim isn't off this time. If we figure QB out, the rest is gravy.

Awesome post. I like this kind of posting.

I am a little buzzed and will wait until tomorrow to address your points. But man, that is a really good post. Kudos!!!!

FA target 1 and 1b.

Top CB and Landry.

QB and Fitz.

It blows my mind how so many CAN'T see how damn close we are to exploding onto the scene.

We're FINALLY going to have a REAL QB.

Hell, a real QB would've gotten us 6 wins in 2017.

I'm STOKED!

Hearing this conversation reminds me of this article:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ack-to-returner

Someone posted an article like that last year and it might be that one. That gave me the idea. His list seems fairly close to mine.

j/c

Am I the only guy not panicked about replacing Joe Thomas after watching Drango this year? In just his 2nd year in the league?

I'm not suggesting that Drango=Thomas...but Drango played quite well and he's young, young young. He just might improve upon what I would call no-worse-than-average. They are both listed as 6'6" and Drango is 3 pounds heavier at 315. Drango doesn't really look like a LT...but I thought he played like one. He's one of the many guys entering his 3rd year and with a ton of playing & starting experience.

Drango was shockingly outstanding WSU but he isn't agile enough to be a full time LT. The Von Miller's of the world will eat him alive. He could play on the right but would be a better guard.

Drango played very well, but we also used tight ends to help him out. I think he could be a starting caliber guard or a great utility linemen.

I agree w/both Dep and CHS. I am not knocking Drango. In fact, he played leaps and bounds better than I thought he would.

I would prefer him at guard or as our 6th man [considering we have two good guards in place] because I think his lateral movement isn't his strong suit and that sometimes rears it's ugly head against the quicker pass rushers.

But again.........the dude was very impressive filling in for Joe.

I see what you, CHS & Vers said about Drango and I agree. I'm just on this 3rd-yr-in-the-league thing right now and he's got a chance to improve on an already-good skillset given that he's so young and played so many meaningful snaps already.

I think it's telling when we think back about his play that our only real complaint is that he struggled against the premier pass-rushers in the league and we used a TE to chip on occasion. Pretty darn good for a 5th Rd guy in his 2nd yr. Just the mental fortitude to step in for a guy like Joe Thomas says a lot. I think he got better as the season moved along as well...primarily because I didn't notice him very much...the hallmark of a good OL.

I think Joe returns and my Drango-excitement becomes moot (thanks Pit) for now but I can't help but think what Drango could be with an off-season dedicated to improving his play - and his body - as a Tackle. If I were Coleman I'd be awfully motivated to get in the best shape I possibly could going into TC.

Need to take a page out of someones play book " did you's guys watch the Game " LOL ....

Durango surprised a lot of us with his except-able play at LT .. One of my pet peeve's with Hue is that he left Durango hanging by NOT giving him a TE to help in critical downs .. Fresh in my mind are several times when we where backed up near our own End Zone ; Hue would call a pass play and leave Durango on an Island out there ..Kiser would get squashed ..

I don't see Joe Coming back this year...he already did his part for king and country.

I think he will be back depending on how well he recovers from injury. The only thing we know for sure that Joe has actually said is that he wanted continuity. He's seen coaches come and go through the revolving door ever since he's been a Brown. By keeping Hue, no matter what people say, at least Joe knows that there is some stability and continuity to come back to. And it sure seems like that's what he was looking for.

I think he’s coming back ...

Hes a loyal fella .. hewants to help his buddy Hue out ... i mean that .. its not a joke ... I seriously think he will end up coming back to help out his buddy Hue ...

I agree.

I think he would have hung them up had we fired Hue. He is not a fan of blowing things up.

LOL.......that poor guy. Think about that for a minute. He detests blowing things up and he has spent his entire career w/the Browns. That's cruel, man! Very, very cruel.

I agree as well. I think that the odds go up if we add a veteran QB and a couple of other veteran pieces as well.

I think a guy with his legacy would want to leave the game at his choice and after the game clock went to 00:00 for his last time...not holding his arm wondering if that is it.

He'll be back. He's already said we're on the cusp of being better than good.

He also knows we're finally going to have a REAL QB.

JT isn't going anywhere but LT for the Cleveland Browns ...

sound logic for sure...an he just might come back...if not def. an O-line coach maybe?

We hear quite a bit that our DL is a strength of the team...we hear that about the OL as well. However, the difference in the number of experienced players between the two units is amazing.

I'm going to start with the DTs for the moment. It seems as if we have a lot of guys at the DT position: Coley, Meder, Shelton, Ogunjobi & Brantley. (McGill was on the 53 for much of the season, but is not on the roster today.)

The senior citizens of that group just wrapped up year #3 - Meder & Shelton. Meder was out for most of the year and Shelton was very disappointing to me. I was really hoping to see that 3rd year jump from Shelton. The Steelers went to their 3rd C near the goal line in week #17 and Shelton got blown sideways on the very next play for a TD. I wonder if he's best suited as a NT in a 3-4? Many of you guys are way more competent than me in discussing such an idea.

The other three guys just finished their rookie seasons: Coley, Ogunjobi & Brantley. Coley was a UDFA and played very well. Ogunjobi seemed more noticeable as the season went along and Brantly also more towards the end of the year. I like those three guys. There isn't a true vet to be seen in that group. I look at those three rookies and wonder how they would look if they had a good vet on either side of them...either side. They played a lot of meaningful snaps as rookies.

The DEs have a similar look to them. The only real vet is that Edwards guy who came in at the same time as Dorsey. He looked ok...in his whopping 4th year in the league. What would MG, Ogbah and even Nassib look like with a good, experienced vet beside them? Orchard just wrapped up his 3rd year and was JAG.

So...two guys are entering their 3rd year (Ogbah & Nassib)...two guys just finished an uninspiring 3rd year (Shelton & Orchard) one guy (Meder) was hurt for most of his 3rd year...and three guys just wrapped up their rookie seasons. The lack of experience in that unit is downright unbelievable...unlike the OL - a group with some young vets that I like through a good, solid 8 guys - the DL is another story...yet still a decent group.

Orchard and Edwards are JAGs and very replaceable. I'd look for a guy like Carl Lawson to replace the Edwards and Orchard types - great pickup in the 4th Rd for the Kittens - and look for a vet to help in the pass rush. I'm done with Shelton...and Meder is that guy you just have to keep on a team like this right now. I'd like to see Shelton traded and a vet FA brought in to provide some stability. If that vet is a penetrating DT and is out there to be had, I'd go after him like I would any other position of need. I really think the three yutes at DT would benefit greatly from an experienced DT in the mix.

It's a group I like and think could really be something with another year under their belts and a few new faces to upgrade some JAGs. I'd be surprised if we spend one of our first 5-6 picks here...unless some guy like Wilkins slips through the cracks - which isn't going to happen. I'd be ok going after Wilkins...but a crazy-young unit only gets younger (albeit better) with a rook.

I don't think there is an order to how a team gets built through the draft.

You have to draft the best player available (and you consider players on your own team) and build from them.

Use FA sparingly to address high priority team needs.

At the risk of appearing to be a shameless bump of one's own thread:

I'm seeing some posts recently that the next step for the new 3 Amigos is to bring in some veteran talent to help the yutes. I certainly don't disagree, but which veterans and/or which positions?

QB is easy...identifying which QB is not.

Where do you see the roster being in need of some vet presence?

I'm more interested in playmakers at this point...but some vets are certainly in order. Where and who is the tough question.

I don't know Who, but I'd like to see us fill holes at WR, CB, LB, QB.

The only QB I'm interested in, really, is Alex Smith, I think. I've never thought very highly of Cousins, despite his rise in popularity here over this past season, and I cannot think of any others worth salt that will be available.

For the other positions listed, just bring in competent players. I'd settle for "NFL Average" in terms of quality.... and then draft highly at those same positions.

Just a thought based on that post...Several years ago now, Pettine brought in Jim Leonhard to play safety. Talent wise, he didn't improve the defensive backfield, but his knowledge and experience did. He made everyone around him better. He was virtually a coach on the field.

(It says a lot that he is now a highly regarded DC for Wisconsin.)

I've touched on this before but I'll say a little about it again.

Firstly, the "who" is almost impossible to say. There's a large FA list at this point in the year but a lot of the better players on that list will be re-signed and in some cases have the franchise or RFA tag placed on them. That will make the list coming out when the FA signing period opens smaller and less talented than it appears now. Who's left on that list is anybodies guess at this point.

The where is never written in stone but it sometimes comes down to common sense dollars and cents. In our case the salary cap isn't a restriction to signing talent at any position. Yet I think this FO is football savvy enough to understand the ramifications of simply throwing money at players hoping something sticks.

Certain positions in the NFL are far more costly than others. Signing them to a FA contract is a very expensive proposition if you feel you can actually address the position in the draft. Positions like LT, QB, CB and pass rusher all command a very high salary in the FA market. I mean if you were reading the board when the Jets signed Buster Skrine, people couldn't fathom what he was being paid.

Now when you're in a position like we are, you can't address all of our needs in the draft in the secondary, at WR, QB, RB and other basic holes in the draft. So I won't be a bit surprised if we sign at least a couple of players at high dollar contracts at either FS/CB and probably QB on the FA market.

But let's look at two positions that make a ton of sense to fill via FA. WR and RB. With this years heavily talented crop of RB's in the draft, this may not be the year that this applies, but you can sign a pretty damned good RB on the FA market for a reasonable price. So in a weak RB class, why would you waste a valuable resource on a position you can get a bargain at on the FA market?

The same applies for a quality possession WR. I'm not talking about your #1 WR, but a guy you can count on with good hands for a go to guy for your QB. Think Joe Jurevicius from our past. Guys like Julian Edelman and Wes Welker. These are the type of WR's that keep drives alive that in the end make a big difference in the W/L column.

Choosing to sign players that are at bargain positions on the FA market and drafting positions that command a huge salary on the FA market is a good way to help control your salary cap and still address many positions in a smart way.

My line of thought is basically the same. I'd add a situational pass-rush vet as well.

I think the only way to get A Smith here is to promise we won't take a QB in the 1st Rd for 2018. jmo

I’m not sure we make a huge splash in free agency, except maybe at QB, could see some guys being looked at there. I like Alex Smith a lot, wonder how he’ll fit in Hues offense, Smith has always played in west coast and gets rid of the ball quickly, not sure it’s a good match for the coryell style with the reads taking a bit longer sometimes.

I think we’ll bring in some vets at key positions where we are currently very young, probably look at both Green Bay’s and Kansas cities roster and free agents GMs like those guys they’re familiar with.

Let's substitute names for "starter" or "depth"...in somewhat of a make-believe world where the guy(s) exists and is available.

Starters: QB, CB/FS, slot WR, maybe RB

Vet depth (if not addressed as "starter"): WR, RB, CB, FS, DE, LB

(1) vet WR and (1) vet DB would help immensely.

As of now, the Browns have signed 15 players to futures deals including:

WR C.J. Board
LB Austin Calitro
DB Trevon Hartfield
WR Bug Howard
RB Josh Rounds
OL Victor Salako
DB B.W. Webb
WR Kasen Williams
DL Collin Bevins
RB Kelvin Taylor
ILB Max Bullough
DL Ricky Ali’ifua
OL Joseph Cheek
DL Jeremy Faulk
DB Corey White

I really want to answer your question because this has been a true football thread [for the most part] and not the typical "Hue is responsible for global warming" thread that almost every other thread has become.

I have a hard time answering because like Pit said, I'm not sure who will be available. I'll try the position thing:

QB: I think we should bring a vet in. Not sure if it will be a big splash guy like Smith/Cousins or someone like Matt Moore/Drew Stanton. This will be interesting to watch as it unfolds.

RB: I'm guessing we draft a RB rather than go the FA route.

WR: I think this is a perfect unit to bring in an established vet. A talent like Landry would be huge. I would also like a smart, route runner who reads zone coverages very well. Maybe someone like Danny Amendola.

TE: I haven't decided. We have two talented guys, but they are so young, inexperienced, and inconsistent.

OL: I think we are good at guard and probably center. I miss Greco's versatility. The tackle situation is interesting. Do we bring in a vet to challenge Coleman? Or do we draft a guy due to JT's age?

DT: I think we could perhaps upgrade at this position. Someone who might not be a star, but is hard-working, comes from a winning team, and will be part of the rotation.

Edge: We have two good ones, but one more might not hurt. Maybe a Clayborne? Not sure about that.

LBers: I would like to bring in a couple, but mostly for Special Teams and situational instances.

CB: I think we should bring a very good vet or two and draft a 2-3 corners.

SS: We will probably not do much here as we have Kindred and Peppers, but neither are good in coverage. That puts a lot of pressure on your LBers and even your FS.

FS: We need one in the biggest way. Not sure if there are any good ones available in FA, but we need to make a big investment.

P: He's good.

K: For competition purposes.

I do think it is extremely important to bring in some guys who are true pros and have experienced winning. We gotta change the mind-set from all this losing. Losing so often is so hard to overcome.

I've been thinking, which is never good

Drango did better than I thought he would at LT. Assuming Joe comes back, what about a competition at RT between Drango and Coleman?

I agree that Drango did much better than expected, so yeah, there could be a competition. I see Drango as a guard, but like you said, he played pretty good at LT.

For the record, I don't think Hue is responsible for global warming yet, but once he jumps in the lake, all that hot air is gonna cause plenty of evaporation.