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Thanks, Jester.

Don’t know if anyone has posted this or not yet.....


Quick look at Browns GM John Dorsey's draft tendencies
u/VonJaegerDec 8, 2017, 9:29 AM
New Browns GM John Dorsey is well known and is acknowledged as being one of the old school “super scouts”, and is well respected across the league for his scouting acumen. But what does he actually look for? I’m going to try and take a closer look at John Dorsey’s draft trends and try to see what he’s seemingly valuing in players.

Kansas City's draft history, including the five drafts that Dorsey managed (2013 - 2017).

All three of the QBs Dorsey has drafted – Patrick Mahomes, Kevin Hogan, and Aaron Murray – were all upperclassmen, and all were experienced. Mahomes had the least amount of games started at 32. All of his QBs have had functional mobility as well, as they are not statues in the pocket, relatively speaking. All three had completion percentages in college above 60% for their career. This is true of Aaron Rodgers, who Dorsey pounded the table for in Green Bay, as well, though Rodgers only started 25 games.

Dorsey seemingly values running backs at lower rounds. Of the six rookie running backs Dorsey has added, only three were drafted – one of whom was a fullback, while the other two (Knile Davis, Kareem Hunt) were both third round selections.

If you want new receivers, you got the right guy. Of his 38 draft selections in Kansas City, Dorsey utilized 6 of them on receivers – nearly 16%. However, most of these were in the mid-to-late rounds, with former third rounder Chris Conley being the highest drafted. Dorsey, likewise, has signed a large number of UDFA WRs over his Chiefs tenure.

Dorsey likewise seems to value guards relatively low. While he used the first overall pick on Eric Fisher, as well as signing Mitchell Schwartz and drafting center Mitch Morse in the top fifty picks, Kansas City’s current starting guards were both sixth round selections, though Dorsey did draft a guard in the 4th round a few years ago. Despite this, Dorsey seems to value quantity and competition on the line, as he has drafted six linemen over his tenure, as well as adding eight undrafted offensive linemen.

Dorsey likewise seems to put high value on the secondary, having spent four picks on DBs in the first to third rounds. This is particularly true of the corner position, wherein Dorsey has drafted seven corners, with a half-dozen more undrafted players. He spends less resources on safeties – probably due to having had Eric Berry – only drafting two during his tenure, though he did churn the UDFA pool and sign nine safeties.

By Dorsey’s own admission, Dorsey puts significant weight on a prospect’s jumping ability – namely their vertical and broad jump.

Dorsey’s corners tend to be typically on the taller and larger side, with three of the seven he drafted being taller than 6’, and six of them being at least 5’11”.

As a general rule, Dorsey seems to favor athleticism and physical traits, particularly with higher drafted prospects. Tanoh Kpassagnon, Jehu Chesson, Chris Conley, Dee Ford, Phillip Gaines, and Travis Kelce are all example picks as to how Dorsey seemingly favors physical measurables and certain athletic traits. That is not to say that he disregards more stereotypical “football” players who may lack such things, but it is enough of a pattern to take notice of.

Self-admittedly tends to favor players with an explosive first step off of the snap, and those who can win at the point of attack both on the outside and inside.

Dorsey’s draft picks tended to be aggressive and have higher motors in college. This is seemingly especially true of his offensive and defensive linemen.

Dorsey has favored on-field production over off-field personality or even over injury concerns. Marcus Peters was notably suspended at Washington after fighting with a coach. Chris Jones’ effort was questioned during the draft process. Perhaps most notably is Tyreek Hill, who was arrested and suspended for assaulting his pregnant girlfriend. Talent reigns supreme for guys of the Ted Thompson line, and Dorsey is no different.

Dorsey is the type of GM that will have a player’s replacement waiting in the wings already. Eric Fisher took over for Branden Albert. Dee Ford was waiting if they couldn’t bring back Justin Houston / for an aging Tamba Hali. Marcus Peters took over for Sean Smith. Chris Jones was drafted in Dontari Poe’s contract year. Kareem Hunt was drafted this year for Jamaal Charles. Pat Mahomes is waiting for Alex Smith. So on it goes.

Dorsey has focused his first round picks at “premium” positions: LT, EDGE, CB, QB. Likewise, Dorsey adheres strongly to his board, and as a result, is not afraid to draft players earlier than perhaps expected: Dee Ford and Mitch Morse were both drafted fairly highly, for example.

So what does that say for the Cleveland Browns going forward? Well, here’s my (limited) thoughts regarding how Dorsey may approach this upcoming draft:

I would expect Cleveland to draft a QB in the first round, likely with the first overall pick. If I had to guess, I’d say that Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield are going to be the two names that are going to stand out for him. I’m personally of the thought that Darnold is going to be the guy who is going to really stand out the most for Dorsey, even with some of his current issues, as Darnold has the same “it” factor as Rodgers and Mahomes had, but I won’t deny that Baker Mayfield fits Dorsey’s apparent criteria better than anyone else.

At this juncture, given where Dorsey values certain positions in relation to others, I would be surprised if the Browns drafted a running back in the 1st or early 2nd. I think there’s a definite possibility that they walk out of day two with a RB. He seemingly tends to favor franchise caliber backs who can impact all facets of an offense. Guys like Sony Michel, Rashaad Penny, Kerryon Johnson, etc. are ones I’d look at as being potential fits.

Those who desire a receiver, you’ll probably be fairly happy, as I think it’s pretty likely that Dorsey’s going to end up drafting more than one of them this year. That’s a position he has always enjoyed stirring the pot in.

If I had to guess, I think it’s very likely that Dorsey targets an offensive tackle this draft, and considering how he values tackles, I think there’s a good chance he does it fairly early on as well to prepare for life after Joe Thomas. Father Time is undefeated, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Dorsey prepares for it this year.

I think it’s very likely that Dorsey dips into the secondary pool early and more than once in this draft, and it wouldn’t surprise me if the Browns walk out of the second day with both a new safety and a new cornerback. Potential names that can stick out to me are Isaiah Oliver, Tarvarus McFadden, Joshua Jackson are corner names that I’d throw out.

Not all of these will be accurate, I'm certain, as I didn't spend time combing through the bottom echelons of his draft to apply all of those rules, but I'd say in general most of these are probably fairly accurate guidelines that Dorsey tends to follow.

I think you can throw Jacksonville into the mix also !

Another article.....


Breaking down new Browns GM John Dorsey with Chiefs Wire

By Jeff Risdon | December 8, 2017 8:45 am ET

In order to get a more savvy view of new Cleveland Browns GM John Dorsey after he was hired on Friday, I turned to brother site Chiefs Wire and editor Wesley Roesch. In a series of questions and answers, Roesch provides a lot of positive information about what the Browns are getting in Dorsey.
How was Dorsey viewed by fans during his time as GM in Kansas City?

Chiefs fans trusted Dorsey. As a talent evaluator he was (and still is) considered to be among the best in the NFL. Chiefs fans knew that Dorsey had a plan in mind when drafting certain players. They also loved his ability to find diamonds in the rough in both undrafted and regular free agency.
Did he have a signature move or standout selection?

Dorsey’s first draft with the team was rough, but most fans gave him a pass since it was his first offseason. In 2014 Dorsey picked up offensive linemen Zach Fulton and Laurent Duvernay-Tardif in the sixth round, and both play significant roles on the team. (Duvernay-Tardif is the starting right guard, and Fulton is a utility/fill-in guy). In 2015 Dorsey picked up cornerback Marcus Peters in the first round when others wouldn’t take a chance on him. He also snagged center Mitch Morse in Round 2, which was considered a reach at the time, but Morse is now one of the league’s best centers.
Dorsey’s best pick probably came in 2016 when he took a chance on receiver Tyreek Hill in the fifth round despite the controversy behind Hill’s background. That pick caused a ton of backlash, but it has ultimately worked out as Hill is a top-10 receiver and has been an upstanding citizen on and off the field.
Finally, there was the selection of running back Kareem Hunt in Round 3 of 2017. That obviously turned out to be a great pick since Hunt has been one of the best rookies in the league this season.
He worked with a proven veteran coach in Andy Reid. Did they blend well or was there friction?

There were rumors of a power struggle near the end of Dorsey’s tenure, but I feel like that was a reach by people looking for answers. Dorsey and Reid seemed to share the same vision for the team. To this day Reid still credits Dorsey for finding guys like Hunt and others.
What are some moves held against him as GM?

Most of the issues with Dorsey were cap-related and sometimes cut-related. He didn’t seem to handle the release of running back Jamaal Charles well since Charles made it seem like he didn’t see his release coming. Then there was the release of receiver Jeremy Maclin when Dorsey released him via voicemail. Maclin was rightfully frustrated about that, especially since Maclin skipped his own honeymoon to attend voluntary offseason practices.
When it came to the cap, Dorsey had trouble pulling the trigger on no-brainer signings like linebacker Justin Houston and safety Eric Berry. He ended up signing both but took too long to do so, which cost the team more money in the long run. Meanwhile, Dorsey had a tendency to hand out big contracts to guys that weren’t exactly deserving. He signed left tackle Eric Fisher to a huge deal after Fisher had a mediocre season (Fisher still struggles at times). He also mismanaged the cap, which led to Maclin’s release mentioned earlier. Under Dorsey, the Chiefs had constant salary cap issues, and it’s really beginning to come back and bite them now that Dorsey is gone.
Are there any Chiefs players who will be free agents who might follow Dorsey to the Browns?

It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Browns at least entertain the idea of trading for quarterback Alex Smith. The Chiefs will probably move on to Patrick Mahomes next season, so it’d make sense to send Smith to someone familiar. Having a guy like Smith would give the Browns a chance to have some stability on offense while a young QB sits and learns, much like Mahomes is doing right now.
Other than Smith, look for Dorsey to pick up smaller-named guys that leave or are released by the Chiefs. Guys like cornerback Phillip Gaines, CB Kenneth Acker and receiver Albert Wilson come to mind — all guys that could leave KC in free agency after this season.
There are also a ton of Chiefs veterans that could be cut after this season for cap reasons. Guys like defensive lineman Allen Bailey and LBs Dee Ford, Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson — all veterans that Dorsey is very familiar with (Dorsey drafted Ford in 2014).
Do you like the fit for Cleveland?


Yes. Admittedly my first reaction was “why not sign with the Giants, a much more talented team with a proven quarterback?” Then I realized that Cleveland is actually a better fit for Dorsey. He’ll have a ton of draft picks and cap room to work with. Also, he won’t be pressured to keep an aging QB like Eli Manning. He’ll basically have free rein to do what he feels is best. Also, he may have learned from his salary cap mistakes in KC.
One thing I’ll say is that for Dorsey to work, he’ll need time. I know it’s tough because the Browns have been bad for so long, but Dorsey will need a few years to build the roster up. Jimmy Haslam must remain patient. It’ll pay off because Dorsey knows how to build a roster.

Here’s one related to the Mahomes pick.....


How the Chiefs and John Dorsey took a big swing to draft Patrick Mahomes II

BY TEREZ A. PAYLOR
tpaylor@kcstar.com
APRIL 28, 2017 12:41 PM

UPDATED APRIL 28, 2017 06:07 PM

At 10:49 Thursday evening, John Dorsey walked to the front of the room with a sly smile on his face. For a notorious draft pick-hound who had just surrendered his 2018 first-round choice to move up 17 selections in the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft, the enthusiasm in the Chiefs’ general manager’s demeanor was palpable.

The reason was simple. He loved the man the Chiefs just selected, Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes II. So much so that Dorsey passed on another QB he liked, Clemson star Deshaun Watson, who had just last season won a national championship.

“Listen, Deshaun Watson is a great kid; he’s the senior who battled for the title, who won the title,” Dorsey said. “Those are things that are very special. But at the end of the day, we had Mahomes rated above Watson.”

This is significant, considering the Chiefs interviewed all the top quarterback prospects extensively. They brought them to Kansas City and tested their ability to learn and retain plays, a significant concern considering none had experience with the lengthy play-calls that are a fundamental component of Chiefs coach Andy Reid’s offense.

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Afterward, Dorsey had the coaching staff rank the quarterbacks on their ability to learn and retain information.

“And (Mahomes) was No. 1,” said Dorsey, who also ranked Mahomes above North Carolina’s Mitchell Trubisky, who ended up getting drafted second overall by Chicago on Thursday.


So about five days ago, Dorsey started working on five or six different trades, including one with Buffalo general manager Doug Whaley. They eventually came to an outline for a deal that would cost the Chiefs two first-round choices and the No. 91 overall choice this year for the No. 10 spot.

Dorsey felt comfortable with that compensation.

“I felt to get this player, I had to be at 10,” Dorsey said. “I know there were three teams that wanted this player very badly.”

One last one.....


Dorsey’s History Gives Insight into Chiefs Future Drafts

by Chip Garrison253w ago
Everyone wants to know what John Dorsey and Andy Reid will do in this year’s draft. The Kansas City Chiefs have the top pick for the first time in the history of the franchise. Everyone knows the Chiefs need a quarterback, but with Dorsey and Reid using talking points of “best player available,” there’s a lot of uncertainty regarding their direction when April 25th rolls around.



John Dorsey (Photo Credit: Denny Medley-USA TODAY Sports)+
While there is no way to truly know the exact player the Chiefs will select first overall, we can pick up some tendencies by looking at the Green Bay Packers draft history. Since John Dorsey played an integral part in scouting and drafting, his former team’s history may give us a bit of insight into what the Chiefs will do when they are finally on the clock.


2012 – #28 – DE – Nick Perry
2011 – #32 – OL – Derek Sherrod
2010 – #23 – T – Bryan Bulaga
2009 – #9 – DT – B.J. Raji
2008 – #36 – WR – Jordy Nelson
2007 – #16 – DT – Justin Harrell
2006 – #5 – LB – A.J. Hawk
2005 – #24 – QB – Aaron Rodgers
2004 – #25 – DB – Ahmad Carroll
2003 – #29 – LB – Nick Barnett
2002 – #20 – WR – Javon Walker
2001 – #10 – DE – Jamal Reynolds
2000 – #14 – TE – Bubba Franks
Twice in Dorsey’s time with the Packers, as director of scouting and director of operations, they had a top 10 pick. Both times they chose defense. If we exclude lineman, they drafted offensive skill positions four times – or 30% of the time. Again excluding lineman, they drafted defensive skill positions three times out of 13. In all, they drafted lineman six out of 13 times, and defense seven out of 13 times.

What does all this teach us about John Dorsey’s drafting tendencies?


For one thing, he’s very versatile. Beyond that, the primary trend is that when drafting high, they draft defense and his three highest picks were all on that side of the ball. When they did draft a QB with their first pick it was at #24 and it was Aaron Rodgers who famously fell into the Packers lap. Rodgers was the second QB taken in that draft, behind Alex Smith who went first overall. Keep in mind that this pick was while Brett Favre was still in his prime. Because there were no quarterbacks taken from #2-#23, Rodgers was definitely the best player available.

Dorsey will ultimately do what he learned in Green Bay. He learned that choosing the best available player pays off. Don’t reach, but instead pick the player that has the most value at that pick. Dorsey won’t reach on April 25th. He’ll pick the player that is most worthy of the pick. If this happens, let’s trust that they have already dealt with our most pressing need and acquired a quarterback in free agency or via trade.

Thanks for all the articles.

I thought the interview article [I believe it was the 2nd one article you posted] was extremely interesting.

They can kind of give an idea what Dorsey may look at come draft time, but barring any setbacks for guys not wanting to come here if that truly is the case, I’d look for more guys then recently to be brought in during free agency. I think Dorsey likes his veterans. Don’t think the team will get drastically older but those guys with experience would help in my opinion. And competition is always good.

Yeah, I think he will utilize free agency. Unlike his situation in KC, there is quite a bit of pressure to improve the team quickly.

I don't think we will go crazy, but I think the roster is going to look a lot different next year.

I don’t understand your question.

“Just curious...in Dorsey's history has he ever had a RB of the likes of Barclay.”

He’s been involved in every draft since the 90s to some degree and hasn’t taken a RB in the first two rounds.

All RBs are not the same though.

You have to consider IF he was ever in a position to draft a RB like Barkley. IF he wasn't in the position to take that type of back then you can't assume he wouldn't.

I think the only safe assumption about what Dorsey will do is that he'll draft the Best Player Available.

j/c:

I remember the pre-draft posts that said TRich was better than Adrian Peterson. LOL

I agree in that he probably doesn't draft one in the first. I could see him drafting one in the 2nd seeing we have as many picks as we do.

Also, those 2nd round picks won't be reaches or big chance type players. Sony Michel would be a darn good addition. 5'11, 220...speed, wiggle, and power. That is the perfect NFL back.

You don't think the "arm talent" thing reminds you of Rosen?

I am going to start a RB thread. I hope you participate.

I think his movement in the pocket is extremely underrated. The guy escapes pass rushers and throws while moving.

However, I would agree about the Rodgers' comparison. Then again, bro............who the hell does throw from all the different arm angles and leg positions like Rodgers does? LOL

Rogers is prime thrower...I've seen Brees and Wilson complete some sweet weird throws...this post is singular, Dorsey has MANY key decisions...I'm glad he's bring in lots of folks to talk it out and hopefully fight about other teams draft boards compared to ours...would love to get Wolf....GO Browns!!!

I always said that Johnny U was the best QB I ever saw, but man, Aaron Rodgers is even better. That guy can do things that no human should be capable of. You would never coach some of the things he does. The guy is a freak of nature.

So he's at least as bad at evaluating QBs as Sashi...

*ducks*

Given what I know about Rosen, he will crush this portion of the "exam."

Very fun read.

Based on the articles, I'd like to think we can pencil Fitzpatrick in at #4. #1 should and will be a QB. I see a case in there for Rosen, Darnold, and Mayfield.

One factor that none of us really know about at this time is the player's ability to learn and retain plays. I was just reading how Mahomes was the only player who could do this from last year's drafts. very important aspect that we don't have access to... I wonder if we are one of the 3 teams that really wanted Mahomes. Nothing's been leaked that I've heard.

I'm still in the Mayfield camp but I believe Darnold could end up as our top choice. I wouldn't play footsy with the quarterback, just draft the one we want at 1. If it's possible to trade back and still land Mayfield at 5, so be it, but it sounds like Dorsey wouldn't take the chance. If Mayfield is his guy, draft him #1.

No I used the right name. He only has like 20% completion percentage on passes that travel more than 20 yards in the air. Under 20 yards and he is extremely accurate at something crazy like 70% which is why he will be a good QB. Mason is almost at 50% completion on passes that travel in the air greater than 20 yards. He is still over 60% on passes under 20 yards too. This is why I say Mason would really fit Hue's STYLE of offense better because Hue likes to go downfield and not dink and dunk as much otherwise Cody would have been our starter this past season.

It's not like I hate Rosen or anything like that but to me he is purely a WCO style player who will want to be an an offense that spreads to ball horizontally instead of vertically for a team to get the best use out of his skills. They better have a true #1 WR too because he throws to the left side of the field A LOT more than anywhere else.

Mason on the other hand spreads the ball evenly all over the field making use of all the catchers and forcing defenses to cover everyone. I think that will translate better to the NFL IMHO.

Neither here nor there....
Joe Namath was one of my favorite QBs. Before his knees were trashed he could really shoot that ball out and had wheels too.

Also liked Staubach and Stabler

OU vs Tulsa
4th qtr final drive
4th and freaking 10
I-form. Run.
You dance with the girl that bring ya.

TD.

AD was a b e a s t.

I used to hate Minny for wasting him.

How many times does someone like Barkley come around? My point was that he hasn’t taken a RB i the first ever before, not that he’d never do it.


And I hated the Richardson pick.

While I do most certainly agree with this, I believe the position played and what most football people's perceived value of that position is has a lot to do with BPA.

The thing is that I don't see Barkley as a value pick at #1 or #4. I don't see him all that much better than guys we can draft at the top of the 2nd round. It's a deep RB class.

In a deep class, you can wait to gain better value for your pick.

Last year was a deep corner class. I wish we had drafted 1-2 more corners last year.

I certainly agree with you. We've both been around here since Jesus was a Corporal and I believe we've both pointed out that certain positions are deep in certain drafts and there's value to be had at certain positions. Recognizing that and using it as a draft tool is a very valuable thing for a FO to use. That's why I was very critical of loading up on WR's in 2016. A very poor WR draft and we just kept taking them. That's the exact opposite of value.

I also think the position matters. I mean if you feel you can greatly improve your CB or LT position in a draft, why would you sign a FA to that position? The same goes for a pass rusher. These FA positions demand a very hefty contract if you actually sign someone of quality at these positions. From a salary cap perspective, if a draft class is deep at any of these positions, drafting a player is a much better value than signing a FA.

Positions such as RB are much cheaper and easier to sign on the FA market than a CB. You can even get a good possession WR with good hands at a more reasonable price than the more highly valuable positions.

Now I'm not sure exactly how much of that logic goes into an NFL FO's strategy, but surely some of it enters into it, or should.

What about off field problems, locker room antics etc?

Dorsey’s drafted both Peters and Tyrek Hill who both had off the field and character concerns. I think I read somewhere that athletic ability trumps things like that for Dorsey. Don’t quote me on it though.

This makes me fear for the culture of the team. Hue better have them on a straight ship next year or we'll be the Bengals. All the talent in the world, but completely undisciplined and unravel in the face adversity.

Going by what I’ve read, Dorsey thinks of himself as being good at reading people and bases a lot of the character issues on how well the kids do with his interviews. He did pretty good with those two guys I mentioned, Peters has had some on field antics but again from what I’ve read is a great teammate and Hill has been a model citizen since being drafted.

LOL..........hard for me to fear anything after watching us go 1 and 31 for the last two years.