DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Problem That Needs Addressed

For the most part I agree with you 100%. Like i've asked before, "what's the definition of insanity"?

It's said that "it doesn't take 5 years to build a playoff caliber team anymore. It can be done in much less time". I "partially" agree with this. On the other side of the coin there's also a reason the Green Bays, the Pittsburgh's, etc are always in contention. ALWAYS. Hmmmmmm?

How many offensive systems does Joe Thomas know? "Hey Joe, tks for comin back this year! Btw, ya gotta learn a new O system".

Wash, rinse, repeat.

I also think that Haslem is learning. Imo he came in thinking that you can just run it like a huge corp. "X" division isn't hitting numbers? Just fire and replace the "X" division president and everyone will start "goose-steppin" to winning/profitability. Sorry Jimmy, not gonna happen in the world of sports. I really think he's learning this, hence Hue staying.

Is Hue safe??? Imo, nyet, nada, nein, nope, but in this case imo it's the better consistency.

Imo Sashi was here to do one job and one job only. Get young and rebuild. That's it.
Imo he may have gone too far to fast.

I'm also of the belief that, prearranged, Sashi knew, on the QT, that he was gonna be here for X amount of time. Not 5 years, not 6 years, etc, etc, but "X" amount of time.

I personally just wanna see some consistency. Just 5-6-7, 10+ years of sanity please.

After, and only after some consistency I'll then decide if I should join the "I WANT MY MAYPO" crowd.

You hear people say this a lot. "No good coaching candidate would want to come here. "

And I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because we go through HC's and FO's like babies go through diapers? That no HC seems to get enough time to right this sinking ship? Maybe top HC candidates look for stability when considering their future destination?

And signing FA's. The new FO is full of respected football people now. People who players are familiar with across the league. There is now an air of respectability there. This should help land some of our FA targets.

If you actually wish to land a good HC, you're going to have to show them that you're willing to give the coach enough time to get things right. You can't keep kicking them to the curb every year or two and ever hope to gain success.

On a personal level I won't claim that Hue will end up being, or that he is some great HC. As with a lot of other posters, I see a lot of flaws with Hue. But when everything is going wrong those flaws stick out. I think he only has one year left to show the new FO signs of improvement. To me three years is enough time to start turning things around. It's enough time to show coaching candidates around the league that we gave him the proper time.

It appears the new powers that be agree with what I have seen as our biggest problem. Talent. Year after year posters keep convincing themselves we have the talent to win. Yet year after year we keep going belly up no matter who we've had coach this team. There is a reason for that.

The person running this team now agrees with that. The people who are behind the scenes in Berea who actually know what the hell's going on agree with that. People who are actually there know what's going on.

The posters on this board? Don't have a clue what's really going on but that doesn't stop them from pretending they do on a daily basis.

Not sure why u lumped me in with the guys that want Hue fired .. i’ve not once asked for his head .. NOT ONE TIME ... i’ve said I’ll be fine with it if he goes .. thats a HUGE STRETCH from me saying I could care less to me saying i want him fired ... thats not right bro ...

I’ve actually never asked for the firing of any of our HC’s ... not my style ... i think HC’s deserve a minimum of 3 years and Hue will be the first one to achieve that with the thief ... i never asked for any of the previous HC’s to get fired .. MAYBE BUTCH .. thats possible .. but he’d be the only one ...

AGAIN ... i’m not sure how i got lumped into the “firing all the HC’s OR firing Hue group ... never once asked for his or any other HC’s head ... “ ..

I’ve said i have ZERO RESPECT for the man ... AGAIN .. thats not asking for his head ...

I’ve said MULTIPLE TIMES I understand the logic for keeping him and am FINE IF WE KEEP HIM ....

I have serious concerns about Hue and how good of a HC he is ... but i have NOT ONCE ASKED FOR HIM TO BE CANNED .... he deserves a FAIR SHOT just like anyone else ....

PLEASE DON’T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH .... i get myself in enough trouble ...

You know that address you posted? It sounds like you should use it. It seems your continued tantrums should be more focused towards Haslam and the new FO than other posters. I mean they're the ones actually making the decisions you seem to detest so much.

And aren't you the one who said that these same people that Vers listed told Jimmy to stick with Hue because he's a football guy and Sashi isn't? Where was your link? lmao

This isn't rocket surgery for Gods sake!

That is a really good post!

Thanks for the post. I would like to address one of the points you brought up that maybe Haslam is starting to get it.

In Haslams opening press conference one constant that he mentioned was his marketing background. How he had changed the marketing for Pilot Flying J many times. And he said "it's a marketing world". That led me to believe that he would listen to his customers, (the fan base), maybe more so than understand the building process of an NFL team.

I pointed out at the time, with much opposition I might add, that Haslam had never actually built a product. In his business, the product, diesel fuel and gasoline was provided to him and he simply had to build the delivery system through marketing. As such, I expected things like new uniforms, and " a better fan experience" at the stadium. Maybe even cheerleaders which never actually developed.

But in short I expected the marketing aspect to be in the forefront and patience to be rare. That's exactly what we all saw.

I hope you are right that Haslam is starting to get it. It does seem he's starting to look for some expert advice from experienced, successful people across the league. Let's hope that adds to his repertoire and the future success of our Browns.

j/c:

I might not have been clear. Cal said something about me putting all of the blame on the fans and media. That wasn't my intent. I apologize if it came across that way. Obviously, when you lose as many games as we have over the years, there are a multitude of problems.

I have considered information from a multitude of sources and it's fairly clear to me that the owners of the Browns have succumbed to public pressure and fired too many people. I don't think they have given some of these guys a fair shot.

I get that the fans complain. What I don't get is having owners who cave into their demands. Firing so many people has negatively affected this franchise.

I truly believe that Haslam has asked outside NFL guys for advice. I think their message was the coach was not the problem.

I am not convinced of this, but I am hopeful that this time, Haslam is going to ignore the outside noise and actually stick w/this coach. He brought in some FO guys who are well respected to work "with" the coach instead of against the coach.

Some of you will continue to call me names and attack my character for my thoughts, but that won't change what I believe and say!

Excellent post.

I think both TTT and I touched on that. Haslam came from a marketing background and even said in his opening presser, "It's a marketing world". As such the customer and how they reacted to changes and the current sales of the product dictated his response. I think we can both agree that it's our hope that he has learned that's not how to build an NFL team and is snow seeking, and listening to people who actually know how the process works.

Yeah, good points by you guys. I agree w/them.

Off-topic, but I don't think I can truly live a complete life until I know more about you.

- You joined the forum in 2013.
- You made a single post on the 25th of March, 2013, telling a poster you were laughing your tail off at that poster sharing that they have dreams about spanking Britany Spears.
- You then stop posting until the 15th of January, 2018, after almost a five year hiatus, to explain you were driven away from the forum because opinions are ridiculed.

You fascinate me! Please post more!

Haslam also sat down with Hue + Veteran players (JT and Bitonio were certainly among them and I believe Collins and Kirksey), but Sashi was not invited to the meeting. Bitonio came out saying that "all would one day come out", but he didn't reveal any details of the meeting. A few weeks later Sashi was fired. Without a doubt the players all voiced support of Hue.

BDU, Private Eye.

Do you have a business card?

Bunch of really good posts...

I think there a lot of posters that can flush the 0-16 and 1-31 down the drain and agree we are in a great position and seem to be on the right track.

Sashi actually did a pretty solid job of completing Phase 1

He's been replaced and we have "football people" to start Phase 2

We're 4 trillion under the cap

We have 12 draft picks including 4 in the top 35

We'll have continuity with the X's and O's for the young talent that is already here

The "crusade" to get Hue fired didn't work, the media scrutiny didn't work... Maybe, just maybe, A Problem That Needs Addressed - has already been addressed. Maybe Haslam has learned enough to see that he can't let fans and media dictate how he runs his billion dollar franchise. As for the people on this board, we have no influence over what our franchise does, if we do, it's in bigger trouble than he thought. Go read a Steelers board today... this is pretty tame. Reading yesterday during their collapse was very entertaining to me. To put it bluntly, they're a couple ketchup packets short of a full togo bag. We have it pretty good here. We're diehards that have taken nothing but abuse for over twenty years. "Ignore the noise" Vers, we are on the right track.

Skipped thru the details. The only problem the fans have is continuing to support this dumpster fire of a team. If EVERY season ticket holder told the Browns to go to hell this off season then maybe, just maybe, that scumbag lying thief of an owner would consider staying out of the way and change his way of thinking with regard to his organizational structure which has CLEARLY failed in historical fashion. Anyone who thinks ANY fan or member of media having anything to do with what the Browns have done in the past is completely clueless. NFL teams do not act upon anything that fans and the media say. If they do, they really are incompetent.

I do. It's just a photoshopped image of me dream spanking Britney Spears in her "Hit me baby (One more time)" schoolgirl uniform.

I didn't mean to imply you put all of the blame on the fans and media, I'm saying they (we) don't deserve any of the blame. I don't know how accurate your sources are, or what has taken place behind closed doors, how often or if actually they succumbed to public pressure. I do know this, every string of turnovers was forced by ineptitude, not public outcry. There's not a regime we've had that wasn't poisoned by either gross ineptitude at the position, or some type of power struggle between the FO & coaching staff. This one included. To take it a step further, none of them were worth keeping.

I acknowledge there is a possibility that currently, the entire problem may be talent, that Hue is a fine coach, and moving forward, if he starts winning the shakeup will be a thing of the past. I'm saying the die had been cast. Hue has a small window with a short leash, in my opinion (because who really knows how long of a leash he is on. Will he be allowed to go 0-4, 2-8? Who knows...), and that is on him. In getting what he wanted, he likely shortened his tenure. The fans & media have nothing to do with that.

Beyond that, I understand the outrage at 1-31, at Hue's singleminded approach to the offense which ignored conventional tenants for grooming a rookie QB. The lack of discipline manifested by mistakes and penalties. Questionable game day decision making, and so on. ( I won't get into his perceived character issues because I think a lot of that is a type of witch hunting. For example, I don't believe he thew his coaches under the bus, but instead chose to upgrade those positions.) But all that is on Hue, not on the media or the fans, they merely reflect the appropriate amount of disbelief and dillusionment.

I understand there needs to be a learning curve for a young head coach, so it may all come together for him. That is what I hope for. His success means Browns success, and we'll all be having a good time. I just see the foundation for stability now as having a lot of cracks and fissure. The only way to repair it is winning, If we don't Hue is gone, and we're on to the next coaching hunt. The fans and press won't have anything to do with it.

J/c

If Hue were abducted by aliens today, not to return until exhaustive probing was complete, there's not a single thing that Hue would have left behind for his replacement to build off or continue. Not his run game, not his passing game, Not even the development of any particular player like a QB.

In essence the only thing being reinforced by this mythical 'continuity' is the weekly "I gotta watch the tape". I almost wish Zagura on CBD wpuld have a Shurmur "We Battled" on a dump button just to break up the monotony.

I imagine that Haslem is thinking of Chuck Noll the Cleveland born native who won 4 superbowls as the Steelers head coach. It wasn't until his 4th season that the lights came on and he was putrid his first 2 years. The third year hsi team still sucked but for once he showed real improvement and the rest is history.

You have to let your HCs go through their growing pains if you want to enjoy their greatness later. They make lots of mistakes before they settle down after learning from those mistakes.

IMHO it's not until they get humbled a bit that they lose their arrogance in what they dreamed up as the perfect way to do things and instead learn to adapt to whatever really works for them.

i'm not all in on Hue either, but damn bro. alien probing? lmao

It might save him from Lake Erie

His successful winning game plan has to be stashed somewhere... Lol

From 1 - 13 to 5 - 9 is progressing
From 1 - 15 to 0 - 16 is regressing

Hue has the worst record in history. Chuckie was still aweful those first several seasons.

I have about 8 games of patience left. lol

Would have to remove Mike silver's head before you could ever get a probe up there.

Same here. I don't believe I've called for his head, but Vers lumps people in groups for silly/stupid reasons. Now, I've liked what people have posted about Hue because I think Hue is a complete douche that blames everyone else for issues and only thinks about himself. But I haven't called for his head, just like you.

Douches can end up being decent coaches in the end too.

Seems like Dorsey blames someone else too. Just look at my sig.

Tell that to the tree Hue came from Marvin Lewis.

Yep,Chuck Knoll figured out to coach.
I doubt that adding those 4 or 5 future HOFer's to the team had anything to do with it.

Wasn't there 4 in 1 draft.

I'd like to address something.. the statements that certain posters on this board are "trying to get Hue fired"

This is preposterous. This assumes Jimmy Haslam checks this board before he makes personnel decisions... what an unadulterated bunch of tommyrot.

Haslam is capable of making stupid decisions all on his own. He don't need our help. And we (us posters on this board) have NO influence and do NOT have the ability to get any GM / HC fired.

Me too... so much, you wouldn't believe.
And it's not even because I'm some hugely blind Hue homer, either. It's for the very reasons you listed.

Vers and I have a history of talking each other through regime changes that goes back quite a few FO's. The last 2 or 3 have been particularly bad, as I remember. He & I would take turns being demoralized at the prospect of yet another 2 year re-boot. Vers talked me off the bridge last time. I was there for him 2 or 3 changes ago.

It is refreshing as all get-out to see general offseason stability instead of wholesale change. I see it as a net positive over the past 6 years or so.

For goodness sake, try building something right- and through completion. It's the only thing that hasn't been tried since 1999.

Bone... preachin' it.

It had a lot to do with it I'm sure. I'm sure having a system that was entrenched and well known by the team's veterans didn't help those young stars learn and adapt from college at all. I mean I am sure it's better to have a new system every 2 years and ZERO players as veterans in that system because whether they are drafted or signed as a FA everyone will always be new to whatever system is the flavor of the day.

Reality is that you need the team as a whole to be in an established system with veterans of THAT system so that as you add new talent those said veterans can mentor the new guys into getting adjusted faster and so your coaches all have confidence in what they are coaching because it's the same thing they have been teaching for years and they know it inside and out.

It takes TIME to build a new culture and it takes TIME to build up veterans to the coach's system so that most of the team is playing by instinct and at the NFL speed instead of trying to figure out where they should be and if they are in the right assignment. That is where having consistency pays off.

For the past two seasons we were a college team playing NFL teams. Sashi made it that way by running out all the veterans they would let him. Of course we lost. No amount of coaching can overcome that IMHO.

Even when we make a splash in FA this season they still wont have many vets of OUR team's system. We are getting closer though if we can just hold onto our coaches a bit longer and let all those young players develop in the same system for once.

Yeah bro, we've picked each other up--or dragged each other back into the muck, depending on how you look at it. LOL

I'm glad to hear that are w/guys like ddub, bonefish, Pit, KWhip, myself, etc in regards to retaining Hue.

Clem, I am not kidding when I say that we may have finally turned the corner. I think it is important for those of us who support keeping Hue speak up to combat all of those who are trying to get him fired. People may scoff at my proclamation that Haslam has been influenced by public perception in the past, but I firmly believe that. We have one poster who immediately gave me an address on how to contact the Browns when I first made this thread. LOL......that tells me he is probably flooding their box w/Fire Hue correspondence. Those dudes are vocal. I think we should be vocal, too. And I only believe that because I truly believe that retaining Hue is what is best for the Browns moving forward.