DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hue part 3 .. he’s here to stay ...

Because Kizer wasn't doing as he should have, and because Hue became desperate to try and get a win.

So if Hue Jackson was desperate to get a win, to the point that he benched the QB that you say he was focusing the entire season on, then how come he didn't run the ball more?

I wish he would have. However, I think that he felt that he had to get Kizer going in order to win.

Oh boy....going to be a long off season.

So why did he bench Kizer several times?

I don't really believe you can call twice, several. And even then he was never even benched for an entire game.

Why did Kevin Hogan start that game against the Texans?

Why did Hue go straight back to Kizer?

We can play this little game as long as you like. But Kizer was the Browns starting QB in 2017. He has shown very little improvement which is why we'll be moving on from him in 2018.

You can nitpick it until hell freezes over but it doesn't really change anything.

I get what your saying Pit but there was no need to have Kizer throw 35 times a game to see if he was the answer or not.

sf did not turn there team into a expansion team... thats the big differnce...

I disagree.
I think that's the definition of the kind of thing coaching is supposed to fix.

You are missing the point.

You probably don't care, I don't either, but please go back and read the exchange between YTown and myself for more context.

BULL!!! This offseason seems 2 or 3 times longer than any other offseason, because Hue couldn't even get Last year to START!

Because we never even got one win to be thankful for!!


( personally I've been in one long offseason since the Day Johnny Manziel and Travis Benjamin beat the Titans, and I remember that day tempering my excitement because I knew not to get my hopes up!)

Boy I hope not. I almost feel if Hue is back that Kizer is the best option, you've got to see his development through.

What are some on here going to say when You finaly give Hue the Qb you want and he makes them look like the Qb you don't want.

I don't believe any rational thinking person would disagree with you. And for almost any other team in the NFL I couldn't even see a reasonable scenario as to why they would do it. Whether I'm right or wrong, I have no idea, but I do see a possible scenario why it may have been done here.

I know this was a complete rebuild when both Sashi and Hue were hired. And we all heard the "patience and they'll be given time" BS we always here from Haslam. 2017 was year two of the process. We also know when they were hired that finding a QB was priority #1.

Then, they draft the fourth QB taken in the draft at the #52 selection. A kid with more question marks than answers. Now whose decision that was is anybodies guess. But one of those two still has a job and the other one does not.

So how long do you actually have to play with that experiment when the rebuild is supposed to be complete two or three years down the line? Could they afford another year, or two years only to find out that Kizer didn't develop? Now maybe he would develop, but I posted the odds of success of second round QB's on here a very short time ago. It was about 27%.

Now I'm certainly not advocating the way this was done. I certainly don't agree with the thought process behind it. Drafting a QB and throwing him to the wind that way isn't fair to the player. Especially one who isn't ready to start. But basing it on what we saw, that's certainly what was done.

Somebody had to come up with that plan. Somebody had to think that this was the QB to draft and this was the way the team should proceed. Somebody had to feel this was the way this team should handle the QB situation in 2017.

We also know that there was a rift that built between Sashi and Hue. That the two weren't on the same page. That their ideas on how to handle things weren't the same.

Considering that your odds of success with a second round QB are about 27%, trying to find an answer at the QB position at that point in the draft was a huge gamble. Taking two or three years to figure out if he could be your franchise QB isn't a sound idea from a risk/reward standpoint.

So people have chosen to blame either the FO or the HC.

What we have seen unfold is that the HC is still here and that Sashi is gone. We have seen that Dorsey was told his first priority is to find our QB. Obviously Haslam feels that they have failed to find our QB to this point. So whoever it was who made the decision to draft Kizer and throw him into the wind seems to me to be the most likely person who is no longer here.

Or they give him another rookie QB, who ends up performing just like Kizer did? That opens a whole other batch of questions. Is it Hue, the reason these QBs didn’t succeed? Did we just draft another bad QB? Does Hue get another chance cause Dorsey didn’t find the QB?


Or, to play the other side of it, Hue gets his QB, we win some games, was it the QB or Hue who won those games? Is the QB that good? Did Hue’s coaching make him that good?


All questions that hopefully can be answered. I have my own speculations on the answers but will wait to see if I’m wrong or right.

People can deny it, but Hue has been successful working w/other quarterbacks.

I won't deny that, but I would like it qualified and quantified.

Which quarterbacks and what defines "having success"?

I wasn’t saying saying anything one way or the other, just posing open questions to the board.

Which, before anything gets taken the wrong way, is the same approach for my line of questioning above.

As in: let's actually quantify this success and take an unfiltered look at it. Was he REALLY this supposed "QB Whisperer", or like Chucky/Gruden, is it mostly just something that has been regurgitated in the media so often that it just gets accepted and never challenged?

He was Flacco's qb coach when Flaco was playing his best ball. Hue was given a lot of credit for his development.

He had Dalton playing his best in his two years as OC in Cinci. Believe it or not, Dalton was in the conversation for league MVP.

He even had Jason Campbell playing very well in Oakland.

He had a rep for being good w/qbs. I know there are posters on this board [you are not one of them] who want to dismiss that, but it's why he was the hottest HC candidate in the NFL a few years ago.

I know. I wasn't getting on your case. I was just bringing up that he has been successful w/other qbs.

I have my own opinion on him and won’t try to sway anyone, but my opinion was based on before we hired him and hasn’t changed. Or he hasn’t changed it for me. But I’ll wait and see what he does this coming year and see how things go.

I said from Day 1 its a MYTH ... he’s developed exactly ZERO QB’S ... ZERO ...

He has however proven he can get the most out of his QB’s and O’s TALENT ... hes proven he can work with TALENT more than once ... he has a very very good offensive mind ... no denying that ...

That was as OC .... NOT as HC .... some seem to refuse to aknowledge that ... being an OC is one thing ... being the HC and OC is an entirely different animal ... some can handle it, some can’t ... we may or may not learn more about Hue in that regard ...

I'm not really trying to argue your point but I believe he did do a pretty good job getting the Raiders to an 8-8 record the year he was a HC before coming here.

Some refuse to acknowledge that Hue was 8 and 8 w/the Raiders and they went

4--12

4--12

and 3-13

in the following three seasons after he was fired.

I was SOLELY talking about developing QB’s Pitt ...

What he did with that Oakland O was pretty damm good ... VERY VERY IMPRESSIVE ... thats one of the big reasons I said he’s proven he has a very very good offensive mind and can get the most out of his QB’s ..

Big difference between getting the most out of them and developing them ..

As far as OC/HC split goes ... he had 1 good year at Oakland and 2 HORRIBLE ones here ... I didn’t say he couldn’t do it ... hence why i said we may learn more about that this upcoming year ....

The results in Oakland were much better than they have been here ... ...

I thought he was instrumental in developing Flaco? I thought he got a lot of credit for the latter's development? Flacco was thrust into the starting role after Boller and Smith both went down. He actually was the first rookie qb to win two playoff games. Hue was his QB coach that year. That sounds to me like he helped to develop a young qb.

Here is a comment from Harbaugh when asked a question about Kizer preceding a game this year:



I don't make things up.

I have to agree with Vers that he did a pretty good getting a lot out of Flacco as a rookie and that he also did a pretty good job with Dalton.

Sometimes you can't develop a QB who doesn't possess the skill to be an NFL QB. I mean actually finding a good QB isn't that easy and you can't get blood out of s turnip. Now if you're asking if the term "QB Whisperer" is a fitting term, I'd say no. I think that's just some made up hyperbole that nobody really deserves.

I will point out, and I don’t know if it’s a knock against Hue or support for Kizer, or neither, but as head coach does he really have the time like he did with those guys to get the same results?

He spent 1 year with Flacco ... 1 year ... that is not near enough time to develop a QB ...

Did he HELP develop Joe ... i can get on board with that ... but no way did he develop Joe in just 1 year ...

IF u want to make that stretch ... fine ... he developed Flacco ... ANYONE ELSE? ... didn’t think so ...

U don’t make things up but Harbaugh does ... I’m pretty sure Hue was the DB’s coach in Cinci for Dalton as a rookie ... either that or he was still in Oakland ... damm .. Hue is good ... ...

You are becoming impossible to talk to. Have a good one.

Thats ONE of my POINTS!!

Its actually a HUGE ONE ...

I’m pretty sure U and I agree Pit ... were on the same page here ... i agree with vers and U that he got a lot of Dalton in Cinci ... BUT FOR THE RECORD ... Gruden had that O humming the year before and I believe they added Eifert in Hue’s first year to an ALL READY GREAT O ... i’m sure he did with Flacco also, i just don’t recall the specifics from that year ...

I’m not debating that at all ... just saying he DID NOT DEVELOP either of those QB’s ...

I SAID ... he’s PROVEN he can get the most out of his QB’s and has a very very good O mind ... not sure how much plainer I can make that ...

For some reason U and I are having a disconnect here ... not sure why ...

Not really a disconnect. I see where our opinions line up pretty well.

I'm just not seeing a lot that getting the most out of your QB is that much different than developing your QB. I mean isn't the very definition of developing a QB getting the most you can out of them?

I guess if you mean long term development over their first four year contact, ie.. long term development, I understand what you're saying. Hue never held a position with a rookie QB to do that.

But if you can get the most out of a QB, wouldn't that hold true on a long term basis if he had been there to do it? I mean I agree that's a question left unanswered, but it seems to me that getting the most out of a QB and developing a QB are pretty much the same thing.

Bill Walsh developed Joe Montana while getting the most out of him ...

Norv Turner developed Troy Aikman while getting the most out of him ...

Kyle Shannahan developed Matt Ryan in the sense that he brought him to an entirely different level and he obviously got the most out of him ...

Hue has developed no one while getting the most out of them ...

Make Sense? ...

Were splitting hairs here ...

No, because Flaco and Dalton have regressed.

Look, Hue has his issues, but he is good w/qbs. That is WHY he was the hottest candidate to among the available coaching candidates when we hired him.

I always doubted his qb evaluations, but I never doubted about his ability to coach qbs.

But, none of that fits the current narrative that Hue sucks at everything.

Believe it or not, I am too.

There just seems to be added things for all of us to disagree on, and after two horrible season, patience is a little thin everywhere.

Hue is good with QB's?

There is no indication of that. Actually most of them had better seasons without Hue, namely Flacco, and I think Dalton too.

And his ability to coach QB's? Where do you take that from?

Thre is no single piece of evidence pointing to any good QB coaching by Hue, actually judging from what we have seen in here, its quite the opposite.