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In time Charlie Frye will have a better grasp of a clipboard.
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Mensa... You are accusing someone of not watching games? Yet, all you can do is throw out stats. Laughable. Tell me, what improvments did Charlie show from Start #1 to Start #16? Maybe YOU should watch the game, and realize that Charlie Frye is NOT a starting NFL QB.
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"channel 5 and was talking to Reggie Rucker the other day, he thinks that Anderson is pretty much a lock to be starter because he has a better grasp of the O."
1. Your buddy is pulling your leg.
2. Rucker is pulling your buddy's leg.
3. Rucker is a Bozo.
Take your pick. Got news for you guys - there is no competition...thats just a word. Its Frye's position to lose and so far he has clearly established himself as the front runner.
Maybe,,,MAYBE if we are playing touch football with 5 Mississippi's - then I would consider Anderson. Once there is a rush involved and live action Anderson falls apart and becomes highly inaccurate. He is not going to remotely be in the running of our starter. BQ was the only one that could unseat Frye but as the days wear on that is becoming a mute point...Day 2 of real TC is today - 8 more and the Offense is in with no more TUTORING of it just execution and repitition. BQ will then have to wait till 08 or injuries in 07 for his debut.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Amen Big C,
That statement says way more than 23 words can normally generate.
I do not understand today's "Internet" Browns fan. Why some people hate on current Browns players is beyond me. You can like Charlie because he is a Brown without being pro-Frye...yet internet people do not seem able to do it. (BTW,you can substitute a whole lot of other names in place of Frye in that context.)
In my younger days...pre-Internet...a Browns fan could be critical of a player without absolutely bashing said player to death.
Leave the own-team player bashing to those teams who's fans can't carry our keyboards.
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What was Charlie Frye's rating in the 4th quarter alone,Mensa.....
A QB's job is to put the offense in position to score TDS 1st and then if you have to,settle for a FG.....
I know that I'm probally off,but Charlie Frye led to the Browns offense to 140 PTS when he started.
In only 4 games that he started did the offense generate over 20 points..
I'm sure a lot of QB's ratings are probably lower in the 4th quarter... well if you are not that good of a team... b/c most likely you are throwing the ball since ur down.. and throwing the ball late in a game to catch up means more chances of throwing INTS...
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Charlie is fine. He has not, and still isn't, the problem. He's starting our first game, and most likely the whole year. Get used to it everyone.
He's not a disaster, and he's not great. He's just good enough. And frankly, until the rest of the team becomes "good enough," I'm not going to complain about him.
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Charlie is fine. He has not, and still isn't, the problem. He's starting our first game, and most likely the whole year. Get used to it everyone.
He's not a disaster, and he's not great. He's just good enough. And frankly, until the rest of the team becomes "good enough," I'm not going to complain about him.
Amen.
People, let's not lose sight of the fact that Anderson vs. Frye doesn't really matter.
Quinn is the future of the team, and this year is the last year we will take any major bumps.
This team becomes legitimate next year.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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People, let's not lose sight of the fact that Anderson vs. Frye doesn't really matter.
Oh it matters a lot more then you realize. Brees' breakout year was his 3rd year in the league. Charlie was a 3rd rounder for a reason. Now going into his 3rd season, hopefully he can make some adjustments and step up much as Brees did(even though I don't think Frye has Brees talent). I'd love for us to have to debate "They're both Pro Bowl caliber QBs, which one do we keep?" and this season is going to tell us if Charlie has that in him or is he just what he's shown us.
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People, let's not lose sight of the fact that Anderson vs. Frye doesn't really matter.
Oh it matters a lot more then you realize. Brees' breakout year was his 3rd year in the league. Charlie was a 3rd rounder for a reason. Now going into his 3rd season, hopefully he can make some adjustments and step up much as Brees did(even though I don't think Frye has Brees talent). I'd love for us to have to debate "They're both Pro Bowl caliber QBs, which one do we keep?" and this season is going to tell us if Charlie has that in him or is he just what he's shown us.
I disagree that we have the potential to have a Brees/Rivers situation here. If I didn't, I wouldn't have said what I did.
Frye and Brees are in two different categories, IMO. Brees was a first round pick for a reason. Frye was a 3rd round pick for a reason. Brees, from my untrained eye, has far superior passing skills than Frye.
I'm looking for an improved Charlie Frye this year. I hope he wins the starting spot. I'm looking for improvement in decision making, game management, accuracy, and an improved arm.
But I think it is far-fetched to even consider he'll play like Brees did in his 3rd year.
If I'm wrong, I'd love to eat crow on that. Just don't see it.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Oh it matters a lot more then you realize
No it doesn't. We moved up and traded next year's #1 to do it becuase we don't believe CF or DA are legitimate starters in the NFL. If there was any doubt in Phil's mind I doubt he would have sacrificed that much to get a QB. Our situation is different that the Bolts..........the Bolts where picking #1, and figured 2 top QB prospects where there so they drafted one. We on the other hand thought QB to be such a huge need that we traded a high 2nd and probable top 15 pick to aquire one..............apples and oranges.
Fry will win the job out of camp, but by week 10 BQ will be the starter for at least the next 3 years (and that's if he sucks), becuase we have invested ALOT in him.
Sorry bud, but their's a reason we mortgaged the future to obtain the 22nd pick.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
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People, let's not lose sight of the fact that Anderson vs. Frye doesn't really matter.
Oh it matters a lot more then you realize. Brees' breakout year was his 3rd year in the league. Charlie was a 3rd rounder for a reason. Now going into his 3rd season, hopefully he can make some adjustments and step up much as Brees did(even though I don't think Frye has Brees talent). I'd love for us to have to debate "They're both Pro Bowl caliber QBs, which one do we keep?" and this season is going to tell us if Charlie has that in him or is he just what he's shown us.
I disagree that we have the potential to have a Brees/Rivers situation here. If I didn't, I wouldn't have said what I did.
Frye and Brees are in two different categories, IMO. Brees was a first round pick for a reason. Frye was a 3rd round pick for a reason. Brees, from my untrained eye, has far superior passing skills than Frye.
I'm looking for an improved Charlie Frye this year. I hope he wins the starting spot. I'm looking for improvement in decision making, game management, accuracy, and an improved arm.
But I think it is far-fetched to even consider he'll play like Brees did in his 3rd year.
If I'm wrong, I'd love to eat crow on that. Just don't see it.
Brees was not a first round pick. He was in fact the first pick in the second round by San Diego in 2001.
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Sorry about that, and thanks for correcting me.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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No biggie, you were very close. Only 1 pick off 
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Impact you are hopeless.
Frye isn't why the team stunk so bad last year. The lack of a running game and the inability to stop the run is why the Browns lost.
8 times Frye had a higher QB Rating than the opponents QB
5 times Frye had a lower QB Rating than the opponents QB
(4-4) - Browns record in the 8 games where Frye had the higher QB Rating than the opponents QB
(0-5) - Browns record in the 5 games where Frye had the lower QB Rating than the opponents QB
QB play was not the problem last year.
Being 31st in rushing offense is why the team stunk last year.
Only generating 1007 yards rushing between our top 3 RB's combined is why the team stunk last year.
The Browns as a team went over 100 yards rushing 4 times
The Browns opponents as a team went over 100 yards rushing 11 times
The Browns as a team went over 150 yards rushing 1 times
The Browns opponents as a team went over 150 yards rushing 7 times
(3-1) - Browns Record when rushing for over 100 yards
(1-11) - Browns Record when not rushing for over 100 yards
(3-0) - Browns Record when rushing for over 100 yards - excluding QB rushing yards
(1-12) - Browns record when the RB's couldn't generate 100 yards rushing
Football 101: Games are won and lost in the trenches. They are not won or lost by who's team is getting the better QB play.
If it was all about the QB's then why did Carson Palmer's team go 8-8 and Rex Grossman's team go 13-3?
5 worst Rushing offenses
Tampa - 95.2 rushing ypg --- (4-12)
Oakland - 94.9 rushing ypg --- (2-14)
Arizona - 83.6 rushing ypg --- (5-11)
Cleveland - 83.4 rushing ypg --- (4-12)
Detroit - 70.6 rushing ypg --- (3-13)
Funny how the 5 worst rushing teams all had bad records.
And you want to know why the Bengals were 8-8 last year and not 12-4.
2005 - 11th in the NFL in rushing 119.4 ypg
2006 - 26th in the NFL in rushing 101.8 ypg
The Bengals were 26th in rushing last year, but still averaged nearly 20 more yards rushing per game than the Browns.That just goes to show you how poor the Browns were up front. Hopefully the additions of Lewis, Steinbach, Thomas and McKinney to the offense will help out.
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Mensa... You are accusing someone of not watching games? Yet, all you can do is throw out stats. Laughable. Tell me, what improvments did Charlie show from Start #1 to Start #16? Maybe YOU should watch the game, and realize that Charlie Frye is NOT a starting NFL QB.
You must be blind if you didn't see improvements.
Did you notice Frye throwing the ball away more often? I did.
Did you notice Frye taking less sacks? I did.
Those were just 2 little things someone who actually watched the games could easily see. Next time watch the games before you post.
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And again, the organization doesn't trust Frye long term. This is why Quinn is around.
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so Mensa... if we run it.. we will win? lol...
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Actually, Quinn isn't around yet........ 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Mensa... You are accusing someone of not watching games? Yet, all you can do is throw out stats. Laughable. Tell me, what improvments did Charlie show from Start #1 to Start #16? Maybe YOU should watch the game, and realize that Charlie Frye is NOT a starting NFL QB.
You must be blind if you didn't see improvements.
Did you notice Frye throwing the ball away more often? I did.
Did you notice Frye taking less sacks? I did.
Those were just 2 little things someone who actually watched the games could easily see. Next time watch the games before you post.
#1- If you are talking about throwing the ball away to the other team more, then yes I did notice that. He VERY rarely threw the ball away. He, instead, tries to force everything and always tries to make the big play. See the Oakland game for the perfect example.
#2- Since you are the master of stats, I'll let you show me how many sacks he took in his first 8 games opposed to his last 8 games. But, you won't show that stat, because the two will be very close.
I really wonder if you watch the game or if you just get on nfl.com and check stats and act like that makes you knowledgable about the game 
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General reply: This means absolute nothing but it's just for fun. I simulated the Browns season in Madden 07 and Quinn's rookie numbers ended up being... 275/464 Completion % of 59% for 2,917 yards, 19 TD's 19 INT's Rating 74.2 Absolutely worthless outside of the virtual world, but I figured I'd bury it in a QB post. And Jamal Lewis ran for 1,733 yards and we went 9-7 and made the Wild Card. 
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I too simulated the Browns in madden 07 in franchise mode... i created Chris Barclay and put him on the Browns... he had similar numbers to Jamal Lewis..
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If the OL didn't resemble swiss cheese so badly last year then you might have gotten it. You could put Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Mike Vick (I only include him because of his legs and ability to buy time (he's a terrible QB)) or anyone else back there and you wouldn't get consistent play out of them. Unless we're talking consistently bad. It's the same reason our running game has slacked since our return. No OL. Now that we're better you will see more consistent play from our QB's. And more importantly from out team as a whole.
P.S. Mensa I agree with you on Charlie's turnovers. A couple of those fumbles could have been attributed to him holding on the ball too long though. Still.....I expect big things from Charlie this year. (no Anderson will not get the nod)
[color:"yellow"]"Everybody has an opinion. And so whoever's opinion that is....that's his opinion" -Romeo-
[color:"blue"]Boo fair weather fans!......Hooray Browns![/color]
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You must be blind if you didn't see improvements.
Did you notice Frye throwing the ball away more often? I did.
Did you notice Frye taking less sacks? I did.
Those were just 2 little things someone who actually watched the games could easily see
So those two little things now make Frye a boneifide long term starter?
Yeah he's one of the few QB's I see who actually turns his back to the pass rush when he drops back..
Did he become more accurate and read blitzes/Coverages better?
No..and none of the stats U will try to pull out your you-know-what will prove that.
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#1- If you are talking about throwing the ball away to the other team more, then yes I did notice that. He VERY rarely threw the ball away. He, instead, tries to force everything and always tries to make the big play. See the Oakland game for the perfect example.
You are serious, aren't you? Now that's sad.
I let you in on a secret. Oakland was at the beggining of the year. Maybe if you actually watched the whole season and didn't stop watching once the Browns lost their 6th game then you'd have seen improvement.
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#2- Since you are the master of stats, I'll let you show me how many sacks he took in his first 8 games opposed to his last 8 games. But, you won't show that stat, because the two will be very close.
He's another secret. Frye played in 13 games not 16.
In Frye's last 2 starts he was sacked a grand total of 1 time. Guess you weren't watching.
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So those two little things now make Frye a boneifide long term starter?
Those were just 2 that anyone who actually watched the games would have noticed. There are more, but it actually takes someone who understands the game of football to see.
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Did he become more accurate and read blitzes/Coverages better?
61.7% - under Carthon
67.0% - under Davidson
Boy oh, boy was he inaccurate. 
Did you even watch the games.
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And again, the organization doesn't trust Frye long term. This is why Quinn is around.
It's also the reason SD drafted Rivers, they didn't trust Brees.
It's also the reason TB drafted Vinny T, they didn't trust S. Young.
Just because someone is drafted doesn't mean that the player they are trying to replace can't still make it in the NFL.
I thought you had a better grasp of reality than that.
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so Mensa... if we run it.. we will win? lol...
If we do it effectively we will.
Maybe if our running backs run it more than 11 times vs Cincinnati this year, then maybe our QB's will have a slight chance of succeding.
We had the 31st most rush attempts last year. We didn't even try to help our young QB's.
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I said were those two things going to make him a long term starter ? 61.7% - under Carthon
67.0% - under Davidson
Boy oh, boy was he inaccurate.
Did you even watch the games I watch the games...so do the Browns GM..thats why they drafted a new QB.. and I WOULD have too Oh and BTW he was ranked 30th among QB's..stick that little tidbit in your stat log.. no stat you can post can take that ranking away.. 
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I said were those two things going to make him a long term starter ?
61.7% - under Carthon
67.0% - under Davidson
Boy oh, boy was he inaccurate.
Did you even watch the games
I watch the games...so do the Browns GM..thats why they drafted a new QB.. and I WOULD have too
Oh and BTW he was ranked 30th among QB's..stick that little tidbit in your stat log.. no stat you can post can take that ranking away..
He ranked 17th in the weeks Davidson was calling the plays. Hmmm, improvement.
Again, what does drafting a QB have to do with whether or not Frye will make it in the NFL?
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And again, the organization doesn't trust Frye long term. This is why Quinn is around.
It's also the reason SD drafted Rivers, they didn't trust Brees.
It's also the reason TB drafted Vinny T, they didn't trust S. Young.
Just because someone is drafted doesn't mean that the player they are trying to replace can't still make it in the NFL.
I thought you had a better grasp of reality than that.
I never said it was right or wrong, I'm telling you how it is. You can throw as many stats out there as you want, but it is what it is. I think you need to grasp reality outside of the stats that Football Outsiders and KC Joyner throw at you.
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I think you need to grasp reality outside of the stats that Football Outsiders and KC Joyner throw at you.
Sorry pal, I don't use those sites. I use my brain. Maybe you need to get off those sites and join reality.
Quinn will not be the starter this year so maybe you should start backing our 2007 starting QB.
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so Mensa... if we run it.. we will win? lol...
If we do it effectively we will.
Maybe if our running backs run it more than 11 times vs Cincinnati this year, then maybe our QB's will have a slight chance of succeding.
We had the 31st most rush attempts last year. We didn't even try to help our young QB's.
well hey.. i'm with ya..
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He ranked 17th in the weeks Davidson was calling the plays. Hmmm, improvement.
End of the season he was at the bottom still..don't try to spin it ..it is what it is..
He's not a top ten QB ...even the 17th ranking in how many games proves that..but wait..lets see what happens this season..
Again, what does drafting a QB have to do with whether or not Frye will make it in the NFL?
Even the most ignorant sports fan would know the answer to that stupid question..
Apparently the drafting of any QB outside of Cleveland doesn't mean squat, but the fact the Browns spent a 2008 # 1pick to draft Brady Quinn to be the future starter..only after TWO YEARS for Frye means they DON'T FEEL FRYE is going to make it here..got that?
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stats or no stats.. its a team effort.. and i am certain that all the players have confidence in Frye to do this thing as the QB...
I'm confident in him..
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He ranked 17th in the weeks Davidson was calling the plays. Hmmm, improvement.
End of the season he was at the bottom still..don't try to spin it ..it is what it is..
He's not a top ten QB ...even the 17th ranking in how many games proves that..but wait..lets see what happens this season..
You cry and cry about how Frye didn't show improvement. Then when someone shows improvement you try to brush it to the side.
67.3 QB Rating first 6 starts
77.3 QB Rating last 7 starts
I call that improvement. Can't wait to see if he can move that up to 85+ this year.
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Again, what does drafting a QB have to do with whether or not Frye will make it in the NFL?
Even the most ignorant sports fan would know the answer to that stupid question..
Apparently the drafting of any QB outside of Cleveland doesn't mean squat, but the fact the Browns spent a 2008 # 1pick to draft Brady Quinn to be the future starter..only after TWO YEARS for Frye means they DON'T FEEL FRYE is going to make it here..got that?
But it still means absolutely nothing in terms of whether or not Frye will be a solid pro.
Tampa Bay gave up on Steve Young after 2 years
San Diego gave up on Drew Brees after 2 years
Atlanta gave up on Brett Favre after 1 year
The only thing drafting Quinn proved is that Frye will not be a Brown much longer. It had no bearing on whether or not Frye will end up becoming a solid pro or not.
What I do find odd is how so many people are expecting Quinn to be a franchise saver so quick. It takes time for QB's to adjust to the NFL, yet people pretend that he'll take the team to the top in no time.
And if you look back over the course of history. The chances Quinn becomes a HOF level QB are very slim. Most QB's that were drafted around where Quinn was have not had the best of success in the NFL.
Last 30 QB's taken between pick #15 and #30 in the NFL draft before Quinn
pick #15 - George Mira
pick #16 - Jack Concannon
pick #16 - Randy Johnson
pick #29 - Rick Norton
pick #25 - Don Horn
pick #30 - Bob David
pick #25 - Eldridge Dickky
pick #30 - Gary Beban
pick #30 - Terry Hanratty
pick #30 - Dennis Shaw
pick #19 - Steve Pisarkiewicz
pick #27 - Tommy Kramer - 1 Pro-Bowl
pick #17 - Doug Williams
pick #23 - Steve Fuller
pick #15 - Marc Wilson
pick #18 - Mark Malone
pick #15 - Tony Eason
pick #24 - Ken O'Brien - 2 Pro-Bowls
pick #27 - Dan Marino - 9 Pro-Bowls
pick #26 - Jim Harbaugh - 1 Pro-Bowl
pick #16 - Dan McGwire
pick #24 - Todd Marinovich
pick #25 - Tommy Maddox
pick #26 - Jim Drunkenmiller
pick #18 - Chad Pennington
pick #19 - Kyle Boller
pick #22 - Rex Grossman
pick #22 - JP Losman
pick #24 - Aaron Rodgers
pick #25 - Jason Campbell
A lot of you guys are guaranteeing that Quinn is the 2nd coming of Marino, but better because you think he's going to win us multiple Super Bowls.
I just hope he's at least as good as Ken O'Brien. History says that more than likely the Browns gave up way too much to get Quinn.
From what I saw of Quinn at Notre Dame, 30+ games of action. I think he'll be a solid NFL QB in time, just not great.
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77.3 QB Rating last 7 starts
Oh how I ever leave out that under Davidosn he was transformed into this all pro QB?
Lets see he threw 4tds and 7ints in those same games under JD..the same OC who said he didn't have confidence in Frye after the season was over??
See? I can use stats to manipulate my stance also..
So lemmie get this straight..in your stat blogs Frye really improved..(which he did make some improvements)but in the OC's mind he wasn't impressed by those improvements..which means those improvements still didn't build much faith in the kid..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 07/30/07 09:46 AM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,341 |
No offence to anyone, but I don't see the point in arguing about this over and over (not telling people what to post or think, I'm just saying...). I just prefer the wait and see approach with this topic...
It's 2007 now, and CF will either take his game up a notch and we'll have a nice problem (as in, who's our future QB?), or CF won't take his game up a notch, in which case the BQ era will start around October or November.
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Hall of Famer
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You are calling someone out for saying they don't watch games, but yet all you do is throw out stats. Watch the games, watch his reads, watch him run with his tail between his legs as soon as a D-Lineman comes through the line rather than staying in and taking a hit and delivering a pass.
But, you go ahead and keep going by QB ratings. Like I said, anyone who realy watched the games knows that Frye hasn't improved. He's no better now than he was in his first start. But, your stats say otherwise, don't they?
We get it... You have a man crush on Charlie Frye. But, at some point you have to face reality.
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Quote:
History says that more than likely the Browns gave up way too much to get Quinn.
History says we got a Super Bowl winning, league leading passer QB.
Go check the history of 4 year starters in college who were taken in the first round. But, you won't come back with that stat, because it doesn't "prove your point"
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CF will start this year. I guarantee it. And with a LINE in front of him, and a running game. He will have the opportunity to succeed---this is something he didn't have last year.
I really don't get what people expected from a QB that didn't have a line--no run game--little experience--poor play-calling---two offensive coordinators--receivers who ran the wrong routes, etc. etc.
How can you judge CF as a QB when he had no real opportunity to manage anything. With a porous line a QB has a tough time staying in rhythm. With no run game, you can't covert short yardage plays and more importantly--you can't run the clock. With receivers not being where they are supposed to be, its kind of hard to know where to throw the ball.
OK---lets see, we changed coordinators in the middle of the season. That means someone new in charge, have to adjust to the new play-calling.
But somehow--people expected CF to play well despite all of this adversity.
Any judgement on a QB, when you can't run the ball and don't have any semblance of a line are not going to be accurate. You can't judge a guy when he doesn't have any kind of support.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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