DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dorsey and our future.

I love the Pure Football Forum!

Nothing Pure Football about it anymore.

Thanks to some of you, yes.

Do you have a mirror handy?

I don't criticize posters like some... And I never start anything... I only defend myself when some people lie about my character and accuse me of lying. I guess some people are so desperate to win an argument...

Since my post wasn't addressed to you, exactly what do you think you're doing right now?

You called me out on another post that I just read, I can't help if it's fresh in my mind and it leaks over...

Most people call a plumber when they have leaks.

or a urologist ...

Lol!!!

Mike Holmgren says Browns' John Dorsey will 'get it going' and 'no more analytics'

Updated 3:22 PM; Posted 9:12 AM

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/02/mike_holmgren_says_john_dorsey.html

MINNEAPOLIS -- Former Browns President Mike Holmgren, who made an appearance in the Super Bowl media center Thursday, believes that his longtime Packers colleague John Dorsey can get the Browns turned around -- under one condition.

"Yeah, they'll get it going,'' Holmgren said of the Browns' new GM. "You've got to find the quarterback. Once you find the quarterback, you can fix the other things.''

He admitted that things didn't work out when he lured Dorsey to Seattle to run his personnel department in 1999.

"Dorsey was one of my first hires in Seattle,'' Holmgren said. "He was my Director of (Pro) Personnel. At that time -- and I love him -- he was a super-scout. But as the director, I could never find him. He'd be at some little college some place. I said 'John, you're the director now. You're not super scout. You can still go (but not as much). So that didn't go (well), that lasted only a year. I didn't fire him but he left and went back to Green Bay and that's when I brought Ted Thompson in."


Holmgren said Dorsey, a former Packers player, "loved being on the road. He loved sleeping in little hotels.''

Obviously, he learned a lot from that experience. The next time he got a chance, as Chiefs GM with Andy Reid, he went 43-21, and went to the playoffs three times in his four seasons. He turned the Chiefs around from 2-14 before he got there to 11-5 in 2013.

"I haven't talked to him,'' Holmgren said. "I was planning on giving him a call. You'll like him. He's a good guy. I'm sure he's learned. He did that in Kansas City for Andy (Reid).''

Holmgren is happy that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam has loaded up on good talent evaluators such as Dorsey and assistant GM Eliot Wolf, the son of Holmgren's longtime colleague, Hall of Famer Ron Wolf.

"Eliot still looks like he's 12," joked Holmgren, who remembers him hanging around the Packers as a young boy.

Holmgren was not a fan of the Sashi Brown regime or philosophy.

"No more analytics. Jiminy Christmas,'' said Holmgren. "The others are smart guys, they're good guys and their approach is different. It's a different game. It's a different thing.''

Holmgren, who went 14-34 in his three seasons as president of the Browns, believes he was on the right track before Haslam bought the team and wiped out the regime after the 2012 season, including GM Tom Heckert and coach Pat Shurmur (9-23 with Browns), who was just named coach of the Giants.

"If Shurmur had a little more time and if he found the quarterback, it would've worked,'' said Holmgren. "That was my feeling.''

Instead, the Browns have turned over coaches, GMs and quarterback since then, going 15-65 since 2013.

"You've got to find that guy,'' said Holmgren. "And now you've got draft choices. If they like somebody, don't trade back. Don't do any of that stuff. Get the guy. Am I correct in saying they could've had Carson Wentz?''

He said they tried to make it work with Brandon Weeden, but it was a stretch.

"You get in that situation and you desperately need one, so you do it and you coach him to death and hope it works,'' he said. "If they find the quarterback everything will fall into place.''

Have another beer, Mike.

The Big Show needs to shut the hell up. He is a piece of crap who still thinks his words carry clout.

He talks about Dorsey needing to be in the building, but The Big Show was hardly ever in Berea. He used to vacation to his multiple homes during the season.

I agree. His days are over.

Mike “here for a check “ Holmgren needs to shut the hell up and mind his own business

Those were the days,the best seasons in decades.
Who would thought that someday we would fondly look back on the white wine spritzer crew.

For any of the golf fans out there....Does Dorsey look just like Tom Lehman? Man, they could be twins.

I like what we have done thus far. We seem to have a good staff in place. Now it just a matter of bringing in "real" football players.

That is the measuring stick to which all GMs are held.

I think the thread is doing well. I went back and didn't see much bickering, and when it happened it didn't last long.

Face it, any time you have passionate sports fans discussing players, coaches, front office types, etc. there is going to be disagreement. Then there is going to be discussion about those disagreements which can lead to super passionate discussion.

You also have to consider the personalities of the individual posters. Some come in here to shoot the bull about their team. Others want it to be a learning experience or poke others in the ribs. Some people can go with the flow. Some people get all wadded up.

It's the nature of a message board. You and I have been talking sports on this, or some past form of this board for near 20 years now. You should know this by now.

I'm continually amazed at how the folks on here can dissect a topic and elaborate on it until the cows come home!

It's not special. We just like to beat dead horses until the cows are done playing. Then we get bored and enjoy some steak and ribs =)

j/c

Dorsey was a good hire, and he has assembled an all-star FO team. I have my preferences on who I'd like to see drafted, but they know more than I, and I trust them to do a better job than I would.

I have one concern with Dorcey as our GM.

I don't know their cap situation when Dorsey took over in KC. I do know he was there for 4 years. KC is now up against the cap, (pre-Smith trade). I'm curious how much of their cap issues was due to Dorsey.

Reid was heavy into personnel and the roster in Philly. Also that he was not nearly so much in KC. But I can't imagine he stood by without pressing his weight around in KC. Could he have contributed to the cap troubles there?

The reason it concerns me is that although Dorsey, like any good executive, learns from his mistakes, but I'd hate to see the Browns up against the cap 4 years from now. Of course by then the Browns should be perennial play-off contenders but having cap issues, even then, could make it difficult for the team to remain competitive. I want a long, sustainable success.

So, how much of KC's cap issues can be attributed to Dorsey?

Dorsey and Highsmith are sailing unto very uncharted waters with the Browns
Both have had success in their previous roles in Kansas City and Green Bay.
But Green Bay had no threats in the NFC North to contend with
Dorsey and the Chiefs only threat in the West was Denver
Now they both have to erase the board of a 0 16 season and a team that only finished over .500 twice in 18 years
Plus somehow overtake 3 other teams in the North who have 15 combined playoff appearances in the past 8 years
Dorsey needs to draft players that can make immediate contributions now and not 4 years from now
Previous Browns gms failed miserably at drafting guys that could make plays right out the gate
The front office and coaches have to be on the same page in order for this to succeed

Glad the Big Show took the time to break it down at long last for all of us who never figured it out. So THAT'S what's wrong.

Why didn't you fix it while you were lounging in the golf cart? IF we got this and did this
and . . . . What worthless garbage. Hindsight is always 20-20. Slouch off into retirement and a keep it shut. We already found this draft's Mister Irrelevant.

I feel good about the Browns future also.

I wish Holmgren would not comment in, on or about us in any sort of fashion. What a pile of worthless he was, and it actually bothers me when he chimes in about us.

IMO, no mic, camera or anything should be interested in what crap he's got to say unless it's about what drink to order or food to get. He'll always be a loser in my eyes.

That's why we should reserve our opinion until we see what the FO is doing.

He's the Dwayne Bowe and Kenny Britt of football executives, with a bigger belly.

I laughed pretty hard at this, but it's also very true. Holmgren was the "most-football'est" of football people. It still blows my mind how much of a disappointment he was because I still remember what a coup it was to get him working for us.

Honestly, when it was clear that regime wasn't working was when the hopelessness really set in for me.

My passion balloon was deflated the most after that fiasco, too. I let myself get so amped and I thought "here we GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" and then...

We are what we are...

I don't know about hopelessness.... but I knew things weren't going to work when...

...The Bengals scored an easy TD when it looked like we weren't "ready." Shurmur wasn't ready then, maybe he is now.

...We panicked and drafted Richardson and Weeden in the first round.

...Farmer was found out to be texting the field during a game.

...(and subsequently) the OC Shanahan wrote a letter why he didn't want to be here.


Realistically, if it wasn't for Ron Wolf, there never would have been a Mike Holmgren.

j/c

The moment I knew we were in trouble is when Crennel was so indecisive he had to flip a coin to decide who the starting QB would be.

I thought that was Butch, but you could be right. Hell, maybe we are both wrong and it was someone else.

I am pretty sure it was RAC, but I also believe it was a pre-season game.

"Davis was the coach when it was a Tim Couch/Kelly Holcomb quarterback debate, Davis picking Holcomb to open the 2003 season partly on a "gut feeling."

Link: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2017/08/former_cleveland_browns_coach.html

Yes, that is true.

Are you backing me up or challenging me? LOL.........hard to tell. I have a good memory and I don't feel like looking it up, but I believe it was RAC who flipped a coin and I also believe it was before a preseason game.

Maybe, and you may be right about preseason.



I don't care if I am wrong on the details, I just don't remember.

Dang, we have had a lot of coaches.

Both are correct

Butch had his gut feeling
RAC had his lucky quarter - and yes it was a Pre-Season Game 1