DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cousins Part II

Yes. Yes they can. And be stuck in 6-10 and 9-7 seasons.

Kirk Cousins needs very good weapons around him. Go ahead and pony up New York. You have NOTHING in weapons. That's a desperation move. Go get him.

He is. And I don't agree either.

There is NO WAY on this good green Earth that ANY Team will EVER sign a FA QB to a North of 100M Contract and then turn around and take a QB #1 Overall.

Won't EVER happen. Stupidity. Cluelessness.

And we'll also look silly if we draft a bust QB #1 overall while Cousins goes to another team and leads them to a championship game. That hypothetical scenario sways both ways.

In my mind, I'm a balance of probabilities guys. The probability Cousins continues to be a 4,500 yard + 30 TD per year kind of guy? Pretty damn high. Three years is enough for me to feel like someone has solidified what can be expected.

Now, the probability of drafting a QB who produces like Cousins? Actually, pretty low. There are a lot of busts, and a lot of guys who don't put up such numbers. Especially when the top pick assures nothing. A lot of the beloved franchise quarterbacks were not the first quarterback taken.

I'd feel more comfortable giving Cousins $30M per year to be himself than I would hoping a rookie becomes someone I want to give $30M per year too. (forgive the self-important tone, I just like pretending I'll ever have $30M to give haha).

I also admire Cousins as a leader. Watching some of his mic'd up moments is super impressive. Hearing about his work ethic and dedication is incredible. I'd love to add a guy like that to this roster. A legitimate quarterback with elite leadership traits to lead a young roster.

I'm not under the illusion that Kirk Cousins will be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers - but Cousins would debatably be the best QB in the AFC North, and absolutely would be when Roethlisberger retires in a year or two.

I just don't want the Browns trying to outsmart the world. Cousins is a damn good QB; why throw that away in the hopes one of the rookies becomes a top 3 quarterback?

Did y'all talk about that in PMs?

And the dude you are defending just said that Dorsey should be fired immediately if he signs Cousins. That's "your people."

Maybe. I am past the point of maybe.

I really don't want us to sign Cousins, but you make a very good argument.

Cousins is underrated by many. They point to his record and playoff appearances, but it's pretty obvious that most who are criticizing really haven't watched him play. There is nothing wrong w/that in and of itself. Heck, it probably means they have a life. However, making bold statements about how he isn't a good qb over and over again w/out really watching his games is not cool.

I'm not sure what the Browns should do. I get your points. My hesitation on signing him is because I do not believe we will draft a qb w/the first overall pick if we sign Cousins to a huge deal. That bothers me because I truly think that there is a qb in this draft who is destined for greatness.

But again, you make a strong argument and I can see the value in both opinions.

We know what we are getting, a proven QB. Add a weapon like Barkley at back, and we challenge for the division crown NEXT year.


A real top QB doesn't go free very often. Screw some rookie who sells hope. Bring in a guy who can sell results.



I am all about results at this point. I mean results this year, not 2-3 4 years down the road.


I'll admit, as time goes on, my road gets shorter, but so does yours. You young blood's will be nearing the end of your road sooner then you think.
Just saying....

This is a reasonable take and respect your opinion. I just don't agree. I see the production from Cousins but I don't think he instantly gives us the same production. The thought seems to be Cousins is automatically going to be good and is an answer to our QB woes. I don't necessarily agree. And I don't necessarily agree he brings better odds than a rookie you do so.

You will never stop, will you? SMH....





I agree with this. In fact I think there might be 2 or 3 or more. Could this be akin to the 1983 class? Too early to tell of course, but I do think this is a great QB class. However, we want to sign Cousins for 30 mil? No thanks, I'll take my chances in the draft.

I would like a QB that we know is proven, who can make the reads, who does not need to be tutored. One who has the footwork, the arm, who does not have concussion problems. I'm tired of the experiments. I'm tired of, "He has promise." I'm tired of the "We don't have a QB excuses." Get Cousins and fix the QB problem.

I will say this. If you want Cousins it's because you want to win now. You want to win while we still have Joe Thomas. You want to draft Saquan and another big playmaker like Courtland Sutton or Ridley. That's a huge and immediate impact.

If your drafting a QB at #1 then we don't win this year, you probably won't get an offensive playmaker in the first round and go defense instead. Well at least we will know in a year or two if our 50-50 shot at a QB works out but we didn't really do much to improve our ability to score except get a rookie QB who will play with a big hole at LT.

I prefer the picture we make with Cousins at QB vs drafting one.

Agree-ish.

But...I am not planning this season around Joe Thomas. I love him but it's not about him.

Obtaining Cousins is an attempt to win asap at whatever cost. Drafting a QB at #1 doesn't automatically mean you're not going to win. Wentz and Goff both took their teams to the playoffs in their second year.

Guys like Roethlisberger, Prescott, Dalton, Wilson, and Flacco led their teams to the playoffs as rookies. I think there are at least two rookies who could start right away. I think Darnold and Allen will need to sit. If we draft one of them, the veteran QB we sign could also lead the team to some wins. So it's no gaurantee we are losing by passing on Cousins.

Unlike you, I don't normally team up. Although I have got a few PM's asking me why I haven't put you on ignore yet like they have.

Someone needs to put that crap that you spew in it's place, is the answer I most often give.

Priceless!

These videos do nothing but make me angry and depressed. Angry because these guys are totally dissing the Browns, and depressed because they aren't wrong.

I went on a bender of those videos the other day, and one thing I consistently noticed - the hosts hated the Browns, the former players loved the idea.

Greg Jennings and Ladainian Tomlinson think Cleveland would be a great destination for Cousins, but the hosts who look about as athletic as an asthmatic turtle think it's a poor decision.

In reality, you can drive a nail through all the teams chasing Cousins. The "set" team in Minnesota won't be set for long because they just can't afford Cousins. Especially if they want any hope of bringing back the likes of Stefon Diggs, Danielle Hunter, Shariff Floyd, Anthony Barr, Eric Kendricks, Joe Berger and a host of other role players - not including the quarerbacks and running backs, with only Bradford having a large deal expiring.

The Browns, Broncos and Jets have serious roster issues. The Browns and the Jets are the only team with real assets to build. The Broncos have basic picks and no cap space, plus an aging roster that needs plenty of overturn over the next two years. Cousins, basically, is going to have to hope that Denver can hit on an uncommon amount of picks while convincing their other players to either take a pay cut or re-sign on the cheap.

The Jets are equally uncertain. They, too, have a lot of struggles on the offensive line. Their best receiver is currently facing nine charges, three of them felonies. Their best TE, with a long list of off-field issues himself, is off-contract. Forte and Wilkerson are expected to be cut. The Jets have a lot of cap space, but it's anticipatory space because they've got so many players off contract - all their receivers, and key defenders, including all their corners. That's one reason why there are rumors swirling that the Jets want to give him the contract that provides a $60M hit in year one - eat the cap hit in year one in attempts to have a chance to make some re-signings in the future.

SO Denver, New York and Minnesota are all incredibly uncertain. They've got more proven talent than the Browns, but to varying degrees all teams will struggle to maintain their existing talent. The onus will be on Cousins to carry the team unless their free agents and aging veterans can be effectively replaced.

The Browns, however, pose a lot more certainty.

Outside of Joe Thomas and Duke Johnson, the Browns have an incredibly young offense that is under contract for years to come. Gordon has his issues, but I feel we should be more confident than ever that it is behind him. Personally, I love Njoku.

The Browns also have implied certainty. Cousins almost certainly leads to Barkley. Given Haley's success with Roethlisberger and Bell, why wouldn't Cousins feel confident that himself and Barkley could run Haley's offense with similar effectiveness?

One would also assume that while the front office is new, you can have a great deal of confidence with Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf and McCloughan are going to do, at least, a good job.

I could write a novel on it, but I think this is one reason that former players seem more receptive when it comes to a Cousins to Cleveland connection than some of the non-football voices within the media.

With our without Cousins, I love what the Browns offer. That stands true if Cousins goes elsewhere and we're building around a rookie.

I believe there is a lot of anti-Cleveland bias among the talking heads. I remember the day before LeBron signed to return to Cleveland, there were talking heads on ESPN absolutely denying James was coming back, even though he, himself, had pretty much said his wife wanted to come home and anyone man with any sense would certainly consider what his wife wants if he wants to stay married, but the talking heads said NO WAY. LeBron's wife LOVED Miami.. etc etc.

No one knows. Opinions are like a__holes, everyone has one. At this point in time, it is all speculation. Personally, I think Cleveland would be the best place for Cousins. A Young team that has been learning together, with huge cap space, 4 draft picks in the top 35, and a proven GM. No one else can match that.

May I ask a rather dumb question, why would Cousins come here?

Moneywise, yeah, we got the cap room to pay whatever we need to.

But from a winning standpoint, we are further away then Denver.. We have about $110 Million and Denver has about 25 million.

The Jets sure could use a QB, and they have about 82 Million.

If MOney is all it takes, we could win hands down. If he wants to win now, Denver can find a way and he'd have a much better chance at a ring fast.

As I've said many times, I'm flip-flopping all over the place on how we should address QB this offseason. It's a double-edged sword, really. You could get Cousins, who I think is an unusual FA QB option, in that I think he'll be very good if he joined up with us. Getting Cousins lands you a QB that carries much less uncertainty than any drafted prospect (even Rosen... at the end of the day, the draft is a crapshoot). Getting Cousins also allows you to seriously load up on some great talent. Getting 2/3 of Barkley, Minkah, and Chubb AND having your QB of the future is mind-blowing. The other side is that the QB talent coming out is really hard to pass up. Rosen looks like the real deal, Darnold might have to clean some stuff up, but he's also a prototypical prospect... and we have the pick of the litter.

It's a double-edged sword. If you get Cousins, it's doubtful you're grabbing one of those QBs in the draft. If you decide you're going to draft a QB at 1, that means you're passing on Cousins.

Tough decisions.

Yeah, it's hard what to do. We have options. Pay in FA. Top #1 pick to select whichever of the crop of QBs in the draft and etc - just hope we get it right and lay this issue to rest and start building it.

Don't forget the possibility of Dorsey finding a QB he really likes in rounds 2 - 4, oobernoober. If we picked up Cousins and loaded up on talent at the top, that is.

To me that's the biggest question of all. Now people can sit here and knock the national media for dissing the Browns all they want. Yet we've actually EARNED every single word of it! But the world we live in today is quick to shoot the messenger.

People say that we have the cap space to build around him. The draft picks to build around him. Yet we've had multiple draft picks and a huge amount of cap space for years now and where has it gotten us? Once again people will say but now we have a good core. A good DL and so on. Are people even willing to admit that people can obviously see a 1-15 record and an 0-16 record? That we have scant talent on O at the skill positions? Our fans are the ones that have a denial problem.

There will be teams with far better O's than we have bidding for Cousins. Cousins wants to win and is looking for the best opportunity for himself. Given the teams that will be looking to acquire his services, we will be viewed very low on that list.

To think a few million dollars one way or the other will be a deciding factor when looking at around 150 million dollar contract I think people may be fooling themselves. That's why the media doesn't see us as a likely destination for Cousins. Because it just makes sense not to see us that way.

Just as any Browns fan, I often overrate our talent. I often overrate our players. There are times I see through those orange colored glasses myself. Yet at the same time, I can pull back away from that long enough to be objective. It's highly unlikely that we have a shot of landing Kirk Cousins. In large part it is because of who we are.

The teams interested in Cousins, with the wherewithal to actually get him are drastically limited. We are one of the (probably) three teams that actually has a shot at landing him.

And I don't see that as a positive.

This will be one topic we will just have to disagree on.

IMO, to say the Browns lack of established talent would turn off Cousins, but the similar lack of talent on the Jets, and the impending cap/roster issues with the Vikings and Denver aren't a problem is being a bit hypocritical.

Agree wholeheartedly. I think if we pass on Darnold or Rosen, we will be watching and regretting it for years to come as they become 2 of the better QBs in football - much like a number of QBs over the years. We have the opportunity this year to make it right - don't F#(@#()k it up.

I think it's still going to be the Broncos that end up with Cousins. The Jets with an outside shot. I feel these two teams have a better chance at him than us.

If it is true that we are interested in Allen at #1, then I would be all for signing Cousins and drafting Lauletta or White in the 2nd round.

If there is a way, we might be the first in Berea. Those are astronomical numbers. No way in my lifetime I hope. Has to be some ceiling on the game's costs.

I could see it with him here, but nobody else gets payed. Just crazy math.

As always, it's JMHO.

Good point, Cal.

I don't want to be part of the "count the suckers" game for Cousins. Market will make everybody squirmish. A bidding war is one thing; there has to be a price too high. Make your best pitch and watch. I am more concerned about what we were willing to pay AJ. Cousins by comparison would be about ten times that.

I’m drawn, I get that Cousins is far better then what we’ve had in recent memory, but......

HE isn’t worth 30 mil, but and luckily for him that’s what the market says he’s worth. So depending on how you look at it he kinda is worth it. It’s a lot to pay a guy.

Ideally you have your “bridge” guy to hold the reins till the rookie is ready, we all know that. But that bridge guy also has to be the right type of player also. In a perfect world it’s a seasoned vet who is in the twilight of his career, I don’t see that option available to the Browns. Plus that guy has to have the right character, and mindset to be that guy. And Dorsey’s wanting to win(I tho k all of us want that), right away compounds that to a degree. I felt Alex Smith could have been a good candidate, but we lost out there. Looking at our options now, I’d say McCown is the closest. Not sure he’d want to come back or even if the FO views him as an option.


Rosen is the most ready to play right away, but I believe we’d struggle for another season with him out there. He’s good but he would still be a rookie on a young team. Darnold, imo, still needs some work on mechanics before he’s ready to get out there. I’m not sure how I feel about throwing a rookie out there right away, like what we did with Kizer who didn’t look ready. Kizer struggled, and people have written him off cause he did, I understand the feelings behind it, even if I don’t agree. So what happens when our new rookie struggles, similar to what Kizer did? Do we write him off too? I understand a 1st round pick is given a little more leeway being a 1st rounder, but if he puts up similar numbers to what Kizer did, then what?


Cousins is a proven commodity, he gives us the best chance to win right away, which this team needs more then any team has ever needed to. But the rookies have a chance to be better then Cousins in a few years, so I’m drawn. Win now, even if it is only mediocre, build around Cousins and move forward, or bring the rookie in be just above bad or continue being bad for a year or two then start winning, with a possible Rams type of turnaround in year two for the rookie.

I'm holding my breath until that shoe drops.

We do have the CAP space, we've almost always had it.., But having it and using it is the problem. We need to actually use the money to get the players we need.

My Sentiments to a Tee!

I agree with this. (I find I usually agree with Bone.) I want to throw 1 more comment in this mix.

We know Cousins is good but not great. He's better than any QB we've had in recent memory. Signing him would have immediate impact. Cousins is 30 this year. Of all the top QBs in the draft, Baker is the oldest at 23, Darnold is 20, and Rosen is 21.

Signing Cousins (and forgoing the top QB in the draft) yields a considerably shorter run before the need to replace (barring injury.) Even if the drafted rookie ends up no better than Kirk, we would likely have about 10 more years of that level of play available to us. And if they're better than Cousins, signing Cousins for a year or two of good play now could very well cost us 10 years of better play down the road.

I agree with all the vetting and the evaluating...the people whose jobs are to do all of the above. To watch hours upon hours of tape and to meet with and discuss it endlessly into the wee hours of the morning. However, all of the above took place and yet we passed on Wentz and said he wasn't a top 20 QB. We then passed on Watson. Not to mention the others we missed out on over the years and the ones we ended up choosing.

Don't get me wrong..I believe we have some brilliant guys in our FO and things are looking up. But, I don't see Dorsey having some top QB drafts in his resume (jury is still out on Mahomes). Also, I did get super excited when we brought in Holmgren only to be very disappointed. Again, I don't expect such an epic failure with Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf calling the shots...BUT, I am guardedly and cautiously optimistic and at this point would prefer to take Cousins knowing what he can bring to the table. Then bring in Barkley at 1 and Fitz at 4. Take a QB later (Rudolph is my immediate choice for tier 2 QB...maybe White?).

I don't know...I am keeping my mind open and trying to get on board with the top 4 (Rosen/Darnold/Mayfield/Allen). Jackson doesn't seem to factor...not sure why. Watson didn't last year and he has had the last laugh. Maybe Lamar will too?