The other thread locked, so I figured I'd open another. I'm guessing until he officially signs somewhere, there will be people wanting to talk about him.
Quote:
Originally Posted By: eotab no I hit reply to the person Im talking to if not I put j/c.
Its ok for u to have an opinion. All I know is I watched at least 6 full games. I was very impressed with his arm strength, accuracy, command of the playbook, leadership n comfort in the pocket. If he was 6'3" + he would be the front runner for overall #1 pick. I love him but I cannot rationalize taking him #1 why I say he is not slotted for us to get him in the draft. I do see him dropping because of his height. FA QB pick up could have us target him.
You know who will end up taking him?
NE Patriots...wont surprise me at all.
Stating u dont want him over n over doesnt cut it with me. Not cause of disagreement but because u didnt state why. Note I dont know what u did just in that reply u didnt.
Device does over do it but at least he is pationate on who he wants.
Coolio, I refered to him in my post directly before your reply, so I was just checking.
As per saying I don't wanting him in the first round over and over not cutting it, I can appreciate that. I watched 4 or 5 of his games this year, and a couple in previous years.
What I like: +His production is unquestionable. +He's a passionate dude +From what I've seen and read, he's liked by his teammates and coaches +Accuracy +Good enough arm +Very good athlete +pretty good pocket awareness, and shows the ability to get out of trouble
What I question: +His size +Mechanics and footwork need improvement (but I think they're coachable) +Immaturity reminds me of Manziel-lite +Not sure him being somewhat of a gunslinger will translate +While not a Mike Leech offense, his offense was very QB friendly
What I don't remember: +his ability to lead receivers +time under center +can he read defenses and adjust
I think he's part Manziel, part Russell Wilson, part Jeff Garcia. If he's more of the latter 2, whatever NFL team gets him will be at least content, if not happy or very happy. If he's more of Manziel, then he may have a short career. Because of the above, I wouldn't take a chance on taking him at 1 or 4. Late first maybe, second or later yes.
I like your NE pick, I can see that. The other team I can see is New Orleans.
I was all happy and then that nagging thought of the 80's playoff games where John Elway and the Broncos bite us in the butt in the final seconds crept in.
I still think too many people are unfairly critical. I die a little inside when people in the media, and social media, complain that Cousins wants to join a winner and thus the Browns aren't an option - but the 5-11 Jets and Broncos are?
Give me a break.
I'm right there with Ocho. The Browns have an already-exciting young foundation to work with. Gordon, Johnson and Njoku are not only excited, but they'll undoubtedly be boosted by additional skill options for a quarterback to utilize.
I'm also there with Thomas. What the Browns have, that no other team offers, is an incredible capacity to build upon the existing talent. It's a young team with cap space and draft picks to do something special. I'd take that over the 5-11 teams with an older roster and far fewer assets to build with.
Why not us? The stigma is worse than the reality. Anyone can stare at the record and see a team going nowhere. I think anyone objective is going to see a team with incredible potential and exciting options to grow into a window of contention with.
It doesn't mean we will sign Cousins, but I'm not buying the idea that the Browns have zero chance.
I still haven't decided whether or not I want the Browns to sign Cousins. I finally figured out why I am indecisive about this decision.
I really, really want the Browns to draft Rosen w/the first overall pick and I feel that we won't do that if we sign Cousins.
On the other hand, I am not real confident in the Browns choosing Rosen even if they don't sign Cousins and I would much rather have Cousins than any of the other qbs in the draft. The prospect of the Browns taking either Allen or Mayfield at #1 is like a nightmare.
Oh, and these are only my opinions and I understand that there are people who don't like Rosen and love either Allen or Mayfield.
If we can land a guy like cousins, then you can go after Fitz and Barkley with the first two picks or maybe trade down for more picks, pickup a mayfield, allen or rudolph later Thats going to go a long way to the rebuild. I like Rosen and Darnold but its a devil you know vs the devil you don't, Cousins has proven he can play in the NFL, Rosen is fragile and I think Darnold is a year or two away. If Rosen didn't already have concussion issues I'd say yeah no brainer(no pun). The great thing is we have a ton of capital to change this overnight. Next year should be exciting, I think we probably are looking for 5-6 players from this draft, I think we need to draft some special teams headhunters in the later part of the draft and not projects. WE have enough of those.
I still haven't decided whether or not I want the Browns to sign Cousins. I finally figured out why I am indecisive about this decision.
I really, really want the Browns to draft Rosen w/the first overall pick and I feel that we won't do that if we sign Cousins.
On the other hand, I am not real confident in the Browns choosing Rosen even if they don't sign Cousins and I would much rather have Cousins than any of the other qbs in the draft. The prospect of the Browns taking either Allen or Mayfield at #1 is like a nightmare.
Oh, and these are only my opinions and I understand that there are people who don't like Rosen and love either Allen or Mayfield.
I get the overall feeling of what you're saying. I think Cousins is a top notch QB that improves this team tremendously and allows the Browns to build other positions in the draft. That being said, I think many of us have that QB coming out that we just have to have on the Browns and don't want to see him go somewhere else and be a 15 year superstar. It's a question of a bird in the hand or 2 in the bush. For me that guy is Darnold. Like others with their guy, I just have a feeling about him. It's more than that, too. I love what I see in how he just seems to lead a team, doesn't get rattled, and has risen to the occasion often. He reminds of Brett Favre (both the good and the bad). I guess time will tell in all cases.
I don't dislike Rosen, it's just that he scares me more than Darnold, why, well he has a history of concussions for one and also his attitude (if reported correctly), that's why I would rather draft Darnold, if we pick Rosen I wouldn't be disappointed ...
j/c... 1. If we get Cousins I expect to for us to trade back from #1. Now it might be just to #2 as the Giants would want to prevent someone from jumping them for Rosen, I would expect their 2nd round pick. Or a boat lode of picks making #4 our first pick???
We know Cousins is a good QB. The question for me is whether or not Cousins is good enough to pay ~30 mil per? At Cousin's ,reported, asking price is there still enough left to build a championship team?
I think trading down from 1 could net us the 5th or 6th pick and a hatful of other picks including next year's 1 .... And we'd be very likely to snag Barkley and Minka at the top of the draft and then have a ton of ammo to move back up for more top talent in this draft.
Signing Cousins potentially could mean:
Starting QB. A #1 CB. An elite RB. A future #1 next year and collateral to move up this year and take more top talent in a deep draft class. It's a hell of a remedy to get good quickly.
No matter which Quarterback you like in the draft, they all come with risk. There is potential for some of them to be great. But there is equal potential for some of them to be busts including the one you think is a can't miss prospect
for a team with 110 mil in cap space and ONE TOTAL WIN in 2 seasons. I dont think the 30 mil or close to it will be an issue. You are talking about justification...we would most definitely justify it.
for a team with 110 mil in cap space and ONE TOTAL WIN in 2 seasons. I dont think the 30 mil or close to it will be an issue. You are talking about justification...we would most definitely justify it.
IF Kirk is on the table forecasting his salary in terms of team building is something the FO will have to factor in their decision making process.
And maybe the answer is yes, they believe there is enough to pay Kirk his reported ~30 mil per and still build a championship caliber team.
But lets make no mistake.....this team is not a QB away and has many areas that need to be addressed with all that cap space.
Kirk is in his prime and he is a proven QB. You pay him whatever it takes and to hell with cap numbers. If we don't have to draft a QB then we have two top five picks that can both gain us game changing talent.
There are also some very good CBs hitting FA so say we get saquan and fitz then we have an explosive offense and quite possibly an extremely dominant defence for a VERY long time.
to me if they don't do everything possible to make SURE they get Cousins they are crazy. If we just can't land him then we can't land him. But I better hear we offered him the most money in the NFL for a QB in the history of football with the cap space we have. If that ain't good enough then he can go where the sun don't shine.
I think he signs with us or the Cardinals. We can out pay them by a LOT though.
To me, I don't know why I should assume that we are going to get the same production of Cousins as he gave in Washington...
To me Cousins is like going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 over the next 3 years.... whereas if we take the best quarterback in the this draft, it could be like going 5-11, 9-7, 13-3.
We know Cousins is a good QB. The question for me is whether or not Cousins is good enough to pay ~30 mil per? At Cousin's ,reported, asking price is there still enough left to build a championship team?
If we win games it is worth it, simple as that in my opinion.
I'd offer the exact deal Matt Stafford signed in Detroit. But with some front loading.
Stafford signed a 5 year, $135,000,000 contract, including a $50,000,000 signing bonus, $92,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $27,000,000. Stafford’s cap hit in year one was $16,500,000.
I'd offer Cousins the same deal, but front load some of the guarantees (first year roster bonus for example) say $25m or so, making his first year cap hit around 42 million. With a reported 118m avaialble, we'd still have 76m to play with. This also releives future salary caps.
Yet his agent has made it clear to Washington that he was looking for ~30 mil and he wouldn't have accepted the same deal that Washington gave Smith.
That could very well mean he doesn't wish to remain in Washington. I don't know. But let's face it, he's done about everything humanly possible to show Washington he doesn't want to sign long term with them.
All I can tell you is what Cousins has been saying about his plans as a FA. According to him his decision will not simply be based on the top bidder.
Well that's really not what I'm trying to say. With the FO we have in place and Haley as our OC, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Dorsey can make certain guarantees to Cousins that could entice him to come here. I'm not saying that's a strong possibility but stranger things have happened.
My position is that those saying that all we have to do is throw the most money at him doesn't in any way line up with what Cousins has said about signing with a team in free agency.
I think they sign a front loaded contract and then 2 years from now when he sees we can win with him they will rework it be more cap friendly so he can have the wins he craves continue similar to how NE got Tom Brady to do it. Tom takes a huge pay cut so that the team can afford to surround him with talent to win.
Cousins already has a net worth of over 100 million so he is not worried about being poor.
Impending free agent Kirk Cousins implied he'd have interest in signing with the Broncos this offseason.
"I'm going to keep my eyes and ears open to anything and everything. I’m in the information-gathering stage," said Cousins. When asked specifically about the Broncos, Cousins said he'd "love it if Denver is interested." Von Miller and C.J. Anderson have both publicly advocated for Cousins to join the Broncos, who have been plagued by subpar quarterback play the last few seasons. With the Redskins now committed to Alex Smith, Cousins should have no shortage of suitors on the open market. The Broncos, Browns, Cardinals, Jaguars, Jets and Vikings should all be in the mix.
Eli Manning confirmed he'll be back with the Giants in 2018.
"Yeah, obviously knowing I will be a New York Giant, that helped. Been told that, so that’s a starting point," said Manning. The Giants are committed to Manning for next season, though the veteran said he'd understand if the team selected a quarterback early in the upcoming draft. "Hey, whatever they draft I’m fine with," said the 37-year-old. "It’s about me doing my job and that’s playing quarterback." USC's Sam Darnold and UCLA's Josh Rosen could be in play for the Giants at No. 2 overall.
Eli Manning confirmed he'll be back with the Giants in 2018.
"Yeah, obviously knowing I will be a New York Giant, that helped. Been told that, so that’s a starting point," said Manning. The Giants are committed to Manning for next season, though the veteran said he'd understand if the team selected a quarterback early in the upcoming draft. "Hey, whatever they draft I’m fine with," said the 37-year-old. "It’s about me doing my job and that’s playing quarterback." USC's Sam Darnold and UCLA's Josh Rosen could be in play for the Giants at No. 2 overall.
Source: northjersey.comFeb 2 - 1:22 PM
You can have ROSEN. Seem less transition. You're welcome.
"If" signing Cousins means not drafting a QB with the first pick; I don't want him.
Cousins is a solid quarterback. He is going to get max money which will sque team salary structure.
In addition I seriously doubt that he would sign with the Browns.
There are better options that fit where the Browns are.
It is rare that you pick first. And there are good QB prospects that are worth the top pick.
You just never know who those guys are going to be. People can point to Wentz. Denver drafted Paxton Lynch in the first round. In this draft it is said they are seeking a QB.
"If" signing Cousins means not drafting a QB with the first pick; I don't want him.
Cousins is a solid quarterback. He is going to get max money which will sque team salary structure.
In addition I seriously doubt that he would sign with the Browns.
There are better options that fit where the Browns are.
It is rare that you pick first. And there are good QB prospects that are worth the top pick.
You just never know who those guys are going to be. People can point to Wentz. Denver drafted Paxton Lynch in the first round. In this draft it is said they are seeking a QB.
Bad comparison, Peen.
Lynch went where again? 20's.
Darnold and Rosen are FAR and away Better talent than Lynch.
I'm not looking this up, but who was the last QB taken at 1 or 2 that FAILED? Outside of Russell?
"If" signing Cousins means not drafting a QB with the first pick; I don't want him.
Cousins is a solid quarterback. He is going to get max money which will sque team salary structure.
In addition I seriously doubt that he would sign with the Browns.
There are better options that fit where the Browns are.
It is rare that you pick first. And there are good QB prospects that are worth the top pick.
You just never know who those guys are going to be. People can point to Wentz. Denver drafted Paxton Lynch in the first round. In this draft it is said they are seeking a QB.
Bad comparison, Peen.
Lynch went where again? 20's.
Darnold and Rosen are FAR and away Better talent than Lynch.
I'm not looking this up, but who was the last QB taken at 1 or 2 that FAILED? Outside of Russell?
Maybe I will look it up, I'm curious lol.
I don't think you can limit it to the first or second pick.
I have some time. All first round QBs since 1999
2017 Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson
2016 Geoff, Wentz, Lynch
2015 Winston, Mariota
2014 Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater
2013 EJ Manuel
2012 Luck, Tannehill, Weeden
2011 Newton, Locher, Gabbert, Ponder
2010 Bradford, Tebow
2009 Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman
2008 Ryan, Flacco
2007 Russell, Quinn
2006 Young, Leinert, Cutler
2005 Smith, Rodgers, Campbell
2004 Manning, Rivers, Burger, Loesman
2003 Palmer, Leftwich, Boller, Grossman
2002 Carr, Harrington, Ramsey
2001 Vick
2000 Pennington
1999 Couch, McNabb, Smith, Culpepper, McNown
That goes back to our return. 52 QBs selected. Less than half have had what I would call a really good career, and i am including a few of the young guys. That can turn around and simply be flash in the pan seasons, but I will give the benefit of the doubt.
However, you have to trust your evaluation process.
When the Eagles traded up to get Wentz everybody said they got the bad end of the deal.
There are legit QB prospects. The Browns don't have to make a trade.
I totally get that Cousins is a proven guy. And that has merit. He going to get close to $30 mil. He is not that good. You give him thirty how are you going to be able to sign all these young guys when their second contracts come up?
The Browns are at this point where they are assembling a load of young talent. In a year their top pick quarterback will be ready.
Cousins would help short term. He could then become an anchor.
It is a risk. I grant that. But for me I believe Darnold will be better than Cousins is now.
Was just listening to WFAN New York and they were interviewing someone from I believe was Pro Football Weekly and he said He felt Cousins is going to the Jets with the Broncos as 2nd choice. He said the Jets have a good O-line and are ascending with some of their moves while the Broncos are on the way down. No mention of the Browns at all.
I will not feel like we missed out on something great if we do not land Cousins. I would have rather had Smith, but will go with any number of veteran QBs who will allow us to draft a QB #1. My fear with Cousins is that we get stuck in 7-9, 9-7 hell for five years with no franchise QB sitting behind him.
I like Cousins more than that - I think he is good enough to take a team deep into the payoffs and win the SB. But I do agree that if we sign Cousins there won't be a QB taken in the first couple rounds which means that for anyone that covets one of these QB's coming out in the draft, we'd be missing out.
Question for anyone that knows - has Cousins ever had a really legit running game to help him? I had a quick look and in 2015 they averaged just 3.7 yards a carry. In 2016 that was up to 4.5 with Robert Kelley and Matt Jones ....
Cousins is putting up top 10 numbers. That is not mediocrity. We would be fools not to grab him. It leaves us open to draft weapons that make our offense deadly no matter how the QB is.
Interesting that Washington who drafted Cousins and had him all this time said not interested.
They picked Smith over him.
Maybe they are wrong. Then again maybe they are right.
It's Cousins that didn't want to play for them. They offered him a LOT of money to sign long term. He refused them. They just finally got tired of pursuing a guy that didn't want to be there.
Was just listening to WFAN New York and they were interviewing someone from I believe was Pro Football Weekly and he said He felt Cousins is going to the Jets with the Broncos as 2nd choice. He said the Jets have a good O-line and are ascending with some of their moves while the Broncos are on the way down. No mention of the Browns at all.
I wouldn't listen to anything home-cooked radio says, especially big-city based radio. They're always trying to convince themselves that top free agents are coming to them, and will find anyone that shares that opinion to put on.
LA radio is the worst. They've had Lebron going to the Lakers Pretty much every years since he's been drafted. Kevin Love and Kyrie going there when they were free agents, and pretty much every other big-name free agent. They've been talking Lebron to the Lakers all year, until it became apparent that the Lakers weren't really good and Lavar Ball was a colossal douche. Now suddenly, Lebron wants to go to the Clippers.
My fear with Cousins is that we get stuck in 7-9, 9-7 hell for five years with no franchise QB sitting behind him.
7-9, 9-7 looks like heaven from where we sit. Nobody goes from bad to great; gotta get good first. Hell, simple competence would be a huge upgrade for Browns' fans.
My fear with Cousins is that we get stuck in 7-9, 9-7 hell for five years with no franchise QB sitting behind him.
7-9, 9-7 looks like heaven from where we sit. Nobody goes from bad to great; gotta get good first. Hell, simple competence would be a huge upgrade for Browns' fans.
I would kill for a .500 team...You know how much interesting and fun it would be to root for a competitive team again...This board would be joyous again
No, the board would be fighting. Some would say that it proved Hue can coach given some talent and that new FO deserves a lot of credit. Others would say the only reason we are winning is because of the great plan that Sashi had and how it's a damn shame that Hue got him fired.
Interesting that Washington who drafted Cousins and had him all this time said not interested.
They picked Smith over him.
Maybe they are wrong. Then again maybe they are right.
It's Cousins that didn't want to play for them. They offered him a LOT of money to sign long term. He refused them. They just finally got tired of pursuing a guy that didn't want to be there.
Exactly. He never felt respected by Washington. When they finally wanted him, it was to late.
Getting Cousins gives you a franchise QB. The need to try and get one in the draft is unnecessary. Drafting a QB is to get a franchise guy, it doesn't always work out that way. Not saying it couldn't, but there still is a learning curb.
This team has won one game in two years. If a franchise guy who is proven is available, IMO, screw trying to hit it with the draft. You still take a QB somewhat high, but adding playmakers in the top of the first round would make this team competitive out of the gate. Drafting a guy could lead to a couple more years of development. Does anyone here really want to wait a couple more years? I don't.
Even if we can't get Cousins, a proven vet who has some success is what the doctor ordered. I'm tired of "developing" QBs. Get a proven guy, so the development guys can actually develop before we need them to play.
Interesting that Washington who drafted Cousins and had him all this time said not interested.
They picked Smith over him.
Maybe they are wrong. Then again maybe they are right.
SF did the same thing with Smith. He was disrespected. They chose to move on and he went to KC.
Before all the political hoopla with Kap his playing took a nosedive. Meanwhile, Smith went east to KC, won a lot of games and stabilized that franchise for five years.
I like to look at it this way... I'd rather have these quarterbacks over Cousins:
Brady Roethlisberger Rivers Carr Luck (healthy) Mariota Prescott Manning Wentz Wilson Garopollo Goff Stafford Rodgers Brees Ryan
That's what...16? That's like half the league. I still might include Newton or Flacco but probably not. Smith might be in the same boat and I'd probably even take the chance on Mahomes or Watson before I'd choose Cousins.
Cousins is light years better than what we have now, but why upgrade to mediocrity when you should be able to have something better in the draft?
I like to look at it this way... I'd rather have these quarterbacks over Cousins:
Brady Roethlisberger Rivers Carr Luck (healthy) Mariota Prescott Manning Wentz Wilson Garopollo Goff Stafford Rodgers Brees Ryan
That's what...16? That's like half the league. I still might include Newton or Flacco but probably not. Smith might be in the same boat and I'd probably even take the chance on Mahomes or Watson before I'd choose Cousins.
Cousins is light years better than what we have now, but why upgrade to mediocrity when you should be able to have something better in the draft?
No offense but your list is horrible.
Kirk cousins ranks #8 in TD #9 in completion % #7 in passing yards #9 in Passing yards per attempt
That makes him a top 10 QB in this league who was just barely being a top 5. He did all of that while behind a bad offensive line. If he comes here then he will definately play much better behind our o-line especially since Joe T. would play another couple of years.
Half the people on your list will retire in the next 3 seasons and the other half put up worse numbers with teams that were a lot better talent wise.
You give me Cousins, Saquan, and Sutton added to this team and our offense will freaking explode.
Furthermore, when signing a FA QB to a multi-year contract, one must consider the age of each particular FA. Guys like Brees, Ben, Brady, etc are nearing the ends of their careers. I think Cousins is 28. That's a big factor.
this team is not a QB away and has many areas that need to be addressed with all that cap space.
Actually this team is A QB away from being a contender. Ummm you still have 80 mil in cap space and draft picks to build. Of course we don't stop building the team.
But my reference to a team that is 1-31 is that we have to start winning. 1. The young talent have to get it in their system. 2. Hue will not last with another 3-4 win season.
FA Starting QBs just do not make the FA market often. There is no NEED greater for our team than QB. We will not sign more than approx. 3-5 stud FA. We will build from the 30 or so young players that we got in the draft n UDFA the last two seasons.
We cannot ignore or simply pass up legitimate NFL Starting QB talent. I don't understand your reasoning there. So if you don't agree fine but the statement of why just doesn't make sense. Sorry.
Redskins consider tagging Kirk Cousins to recoup money
By ADAM SCHEFTER via ESPN Feb 4, 2018, 7:39 AM ET ESPNAPI_IMG_NO_ALTEXT_Value
In what sets up as an offseason game of chicken that would markedly influence the quarterback market, the Washington Redskins will consider placing their franchise tag on quarterback Kirk Cousins so they can trade him and recoup some of the compensation they are sending to Kansas City for quarterback? Alex Smith, per league sources.
Tagging Cousins would prevent him from becoming a true unrestricted free agent, able to sign where he wants once the new league year opens March 14, and could impact how other teams approach free agency and the draft. Without a franchise tag, Cousins would be considered the NFL's top available free agent, expected to draw interest from Arizona, Denver, the New York Jets and other quarterback-needy teams.
Cousins would still have leverage with franchise tag
But Washington might want a say in where Cousins winds up, which would enable the Redskins to try to extract compensation in the 2018 draft rather than having him walk away for nothing this year.
However, Cousins still would be able to wield some control of the situation and could force Washington into a challenging if not uncomfortable situation. Washington could not trade him until he signs the franchise tag, and if Cousins wanted, he could delay signing it for weeks or even months, with the Redskins having to count his approximate $34.5 million against their salary cap.
Cousins also could tell any of Washington's potential trade partners that he is unwilling to sign a long-term deal there, dampening that team's enthusiasm for surrendering a top draft pick for his services and holding up any potential trade.
If Washington decided to pull the franchise tag to get Cousins' contract off its salary cap, it would lose the right to recoup a 2019 compensatory draft pick that it would get if Cousins were able to leave right away as a free agent. So tagging Cousins would undoubtedly carry risk.
Redskins coach Jay Gruden did not give Cousins a sense that the team would use its franchise tag on him when the two spoke this week, but others connected to the team insist that Washington is considering it. They believe it is nothing more than a business decision, a way for the team to try to get back at least the third-round pick it is trading to Kansas City for Smith.
It is a decision that Washington will have to make in the coming weeks. Teams can begin designating franchise players on Feb. 20.
I like to look at it this way... I'd rather have these quarterbacks over Cousins:
Brady Roethlisberger Rivers Carr Luck (healthy) Mariota Prescott Manning Wentz Wilson Garopollo Goff Stafford Rodgers Brees Ryan
That's what...16? That's like half the league. I still might include Newton or Flacco but probably not. Smith might be in the same boat and I'd probably even take the chance on Mahomes or Watson before I'd choose Cousins.
Cousins is light years better than what we have now, but why upgrade to mediocrity when you should be able to have something better in the draft?
Sorry - Eli hasn't been a good QB for at least a couple years. Adding him to that list undermines everything immediately.
As others have also said - we're building for the future - suggesting we can lay a foundation for winning over the next 5 years by having Rivers, Big Ben, or Brees (and Eli) as a better 5 year plan than Cousins is flat wrong. Even the GOAT is a huge question mark past the next season. . . but I think for the GOAT we'd all give up the farm even if it was for 1 year.
So simply using your list and removing the old and infirm - we have 12 QB's that include a 40+ year old Brady and a injury question over Luck. . . . So you don't want a top 13 QB starting for the Browns? And that's based on your opinion - because as others have highlighted - on a somewhat dysfunctional team he's put up some great numbers.
And instead you would want to roll with an unproven rookie QB - where there is very real risk that whoever we take ends up as a (comparative) bust. I think that's some some skewed logic because regardless of your opinion of guaranteed success of whichever rookie QB you like (and I think it's Mayfield) statistically there is a much higher probability the rookie will not be a top 13 QB in the NFL than that he will be in the top 13. . . . . and that's without even trying to debate the merits of some of the younger QB's on your list like Prescott where it comes down to pure personal opinion to claim they are better NFL QB's than Cousins.
Furthermore, when signing a FA QB to a multi-year contract, one must consider the age of each particular FA. Guys like Brees, Ben, Brady, etc are nearing the ends of their careers. I think Cousins is 28. That's a big factor.
I think he is 29, but none the less, I agree. Cousins isn't a bridge option. He is a legit player who can play at a high level past the contract he will sign. A 5 year deal puts him at 34/35. He still has good football in the tank at that point. I will qualify the previous comment assuming he still wants to play or doesn't sustain some sort of injury that narrows his playing window.
Tom Brady will be playing in about 7.5 hours. How old is that guy? Looks to me like he still has a few years in the tank.
this team is not a QB away and has many areas that need to be addressed with all that cap space.
Actually this team is A QB away from being a contender. Ummm you still have 80 mil in cap space and draft picks to build. Of course we don't stop building the team.
But my reference to a team that is 1-31 is that we have to start winning. 1. The young talent have to get it in their system. 2. Hue will not last with another 3-4 win season.
FA Starting QBs just do not make the FA market often. There is no NEED greater for our team than QB. We will not sign more than approx. 3-5 stud FA. We will build from the 30 or so young players that we got in the draft n UDFA the last two seasons.
We cannot ignore or simply pass up legitimate NFL Starting QB talent. I don't understand your reasoning there. So if you don't agree fine but the statement of why just doesn't make sense. Sorry.
I agree. A QB changes much.
As you point out, we are going to go after some free agent players. We are poised in the draft to add several playmaker players on both sides of the ball, and we have players currently on the team who were held back by QB play.
We can win next year. We were better than our record last year, and that comment isn't a knock on anybody. It just didn't work is the way we can leave that.
I think we can win 9 games next year. Lot's of people with the team can go from chump to champ in a hurry.
Furthermore, when signing a FA QB to a multi-year contract, one must consider the age of each particular FA. Guys like Brees, Ben, Brady, etc are nearing the ends of their careers. I think Cousins is 28. That's a big factor.
If Washington tags Cousins and he signs the tag, they are screwed.
That should prevent them from completing the trade with KC. They can’t afford both.
According to Spotrac it will be real close. Including Smith's contract the Skins have $36 mill left in cap space and I believe that if the Skins franchise tag Cousins again it will cost them about $34 mill.
If Washington tags Cousins and he signs the tag, they are screwed.
That should prevent them from completing the trade with KC. They can’t afford both.
They would then trade Cousins so they could recoup some of what they paid for Smith. If that was the case the Browns would be able to get Cousins in a trade. Other wise, I doubt he will sign with Cleveland in FA.
If Washington tags Cousins and he signs the tag, they are screwed.
That should prevent them from completing the trade with KC. They can’t afford both.
They would then trade Cousins so they could recoup some of what they paid for Smith. If that was the case the Browns would be able to get Cousins in a trade. Other wise, I doubt he will sign with Cleveland in FA.
Because then we’d have a 34.5 million dollar qb on a one year deal and less a draft pick. Not at all worth it if you can’t get him signed long term. I’d rather we let the skins keep him and see if we can get Smith on the rebound he’s cheaper and willing to sign longer.
“Is money a part of it? Sure. Is it the only thing? No,” Cousins said on PFT Live. “It is about winning, and that’s what I want more than anything, so I’m going to be willing to make sacrifices or do what has to be done to make sure I’m in the best possible position to win, and that’s what the focus is going to be.”
Well, right on the scene at radio row, things got a little more interesting with Paul Allen and Paul Charchian for KFAN.
The Pauls were chatting with Bleacher Report senior writer Master Tesfatsion, formerly of the Washington Post, about Kirk Cousins and how he might fit with the Vikings. Stemming from that conversation, Paul Allen received a text message from what he called an "incredibly well respected opinion" with some VERY interesting information around Kirk's preference for a landing spot.
The mystery text message read as follows:
"Listening to you, I'm told Cousins has been telling people this week the Vikings are #1 with a bullet on his preference list. If offers are similar he's taking the Vikings."
You guys are kinda missing the point with my post, but that's ok.
But anyway, I think a lot of people assume Cousins will play well if he comes here. I don't know if he will or not. But I also don't believe he's as good as his numbers suggest.
Paul Allen of KFAN Minneapolis reports the Vikings are "number one with a bullet" on Kirk Cousins' wish list.
Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer agrees that Minnesota would be a "prime location" for the impending free agent. Cousins has garnered widespread interest since Washington traded for Alex Smith last week with the Broncos, Cardinals, Jaguars, Jets and Vikings emerging as his top suitors. Cousins reportedly has a desire to "win right away," which would make Minnesota an appealing destination. The Vikings also boast one of the league's strongest receiving duos in Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs. With Sam Bradford, Teddy Bridgewater and Case Keenum all headed for free agency, the NFC runner-ups will be aggressive in pursuing a quarterback this offseason.
If Cousins isn't coming to Cleveland, I hope it's Minnesota.
Denver and New York are both picking #5 and #6, respectively, and both need a quarterback. We could dangle that #4 pick for trade bait. Arizona is a long shot but could realistically help build value if they're rumoured to trade up.
In 2017, the 49ers got 2x 3rd round picks and 1x 4th round pick just to move back one spot. If we could get a deal like that from Denver, and still get the guy we wanted from the #4 pick, that would be amazing.
Heck, I wonder what our chances are of getting #5 and #40 in exchange for #4.
I have seen the reports about Minnesota being a prime location for Cousins, but has Minni said they are even in the market for a new QB? Are they really that dissatisfied w/their 3 QBs that they won't even try to re-sign one or two of them?
And the last one only started because the top two were down.
And teams simply can not rely on Sam Bradford. For the life of me I can’t figure out why Minnesota Gave up a first round pick for a guy who’s built out of glass.
True. I guess my point is that Cousins is going to be extremely expensive. I question whether or not the Vikings will pursue him. I can see teams like Denver, NYJ, Arizona, and Cleveland giving him a huge contract but I question the wisdom of Minni doing so.
Those are just my thoughts. I'm not actually predicting anything.
And teams simply can not rely on Sam Bradford. For the life of me I can’t figure out why Minnesota Gave up a first round pick for a guy who’s built out of glass.
They were in a pinch because Teddy Bridgewater's leg fell off a week before the season. To be fair to them, he played really well and they made the playoffs.
This may have been discussed already, but yesterday while listening to the run up to the superbowl, I heard a couple of talking heads say that Washington will tag cousins then trade him. (not sure which tag they'll use)But it wouldn't make sense for them to just let him walk with nothing in return.
This may have been discussed already, but yesterday while listening to the run up to the superbowl, I heard a couple of talking heads say that Washington will tag cousins then trade him. (not sure which tag they'll use)But it wouldn't make sense for them to just let him walk with nothing in return.
and if they can't move him? omg, talk about a trainwreck.
I'm cool with giving cousins a max deal. but to give up money AND draft picks?
If I was Cousins, I would tell them that I will sign the tender immediately, if they do that.
There aren't a lot of trade partners for a $34 million QB on a franchise contract. The Skins would be required to create that $34 million in cap space to fit that tender before they could tender him. Good luck keeping their team together, let alone improving it.
If I was Cousins, I would tell them that I will sign the tender immediately, if they do that.
There aren't a lot of trade partners for a $34 million QB on a franchise contract. The Skins would be required to create that $34 million in cap space to fit that tender before they could tender him. Good luck keeping their team together, let alone improving it.
And then make a public announcement that any team that trades for him that he will refuse to resign.
There is zero chance they tender him. They can't possibly be that stupid.
This may have been discussed already, but yesterday while listening to the run up to the superbowl, I heard a couple of talking heads say that Washington will tag cousins then trade him. (not sure which tag they'll use)But it wouldn't make sense for them to just let him walk with nothing in return.
and if they can't move him? omg, talk about a trainwreck.
I'm cool with giving cousins a max deal. but to give up money AND draft picks?
hell no.
I agree. Nobody is going to do that. Washington will be stuck with him at 30 mil, or whatever it is this time.
This may have been discussed already, but yesterday while listening to the run up to the superbowl, I heard a couple of talking heads say that Washington will tag cousins then trade him. (not sure which tag they'll use)But it wouldn't make sense for them to just let him walk with nothing in return.
and if they can't move him? omg, talk about a trainwreck.
I'm cool with giving cousins a max deal. but to give up money AND draft picks?
hell no.
$ and draft picks, I wouldn't walk away, I would take crack and run as fast as I could away hahaha.
This may have been discussed already, but yesterday while listening to the run up to the superbowl, I heard a couple of talking heads say that Washington will tag cousins then trade him. (not sure which tag they'll use)But it wouldn't make sense for them to just let him walk with nothing in return.
and if they can't move him? omg, talk about a trainwreck.
I'm cool with giving cousins a max deal. but to give up money AND draft picks?
hell no.
$ and draft picks, I wouldn't walk away, I would take crack and run as fast as I could away hahaha.
My interest in Cousins was based on getting him and keeping our draft picks as well, I'm not so sure he is worth the draft picks, the 34 mil for 1 year expense, plus the hassle of attempting to sign long term.
How I understand the transition tag, that doesn't sound like it'll work. Cousins can negotiate a contract and then Washington has the option to sign him at the same contract like we did with Alex Mack. Would be kind of crappy for Washington to just sign him to make sure they get something in trade.
If Washington wants something for him they're just going to have to wait a year, not sign any FA and receive a 3rd rd compensation pick.
No that isn't what I said kwhip. I said that $34 mil and a draft pick would probably eliminate Denver. If he has a $34 mil deal in hand he isn't going to sign for less money that year if other teams are willing to pay it and other teams will. Denver just doesn't have the cash to offer him.
Cousins has the leverage once he's tagged, and Washington can ill afford him to quickly sign the tag. He has that threat in his pocket.
devicedawg, this deal will all be done before the tag deadline. It doesn't matter what tag they use because they are only tagging him to have trading rights. Teams don't have to match any deals or trade any certain picks. Washington just has to accept their offer.
The problem that a team like Denver would have would be that Kirk can choose to sign his tag and stay in Washington for a year for $34 mil and repeat the process at an even higher price next year. Denver and every other team would have to start their offers at $34 mil for at least that first year to be in the running.
And yes it is all just a guess, but a guess is all that anyone can offer at this point. Even Washington has to guess at this point and so far they haven't guessed well when it comes to Cousins.
True. I guess my point is that Cousins is going to be extremely expensive. I question whether or not the Vikings will pursue him. I can see teams like Denver, NYJ, Arizona, and Cleveland giving him a huge contract but I question the wisdom of Minni doing so.
Those are just my thoughts. I'm not actually predicting anything.
I was thinking he'd sign a deal similar to the Stafford deal (it was 6 years, 135m I believe), but I read something on ESPN yesterday that some talking head thinks he'll sign with the Jets at 6 years 186m. That's just assinine money.
I beleive that Cousins has to actually sign the tag in order for Washington to be able to trade him under the franchise tag, let me know if I’m wrong. If they propose a trade to somewhere he doesn’t want to go he just doesn’t sign the tag, therefore no trade, why would Washington give him all that leverage? I understand wanting to get something for him but they could screw themselves.
Matt Miller reports hearing from multiple sources that all four of the first selections are being shopped, with the Browns willing to move one of the two selections but not both.
At this stage, I expect it is little more than due diligence. As the saying goes, every selection and player is on the trade block: Every team will listen to any offer out of either curiosity or insight in to another team's line of thinking.
However, what I found the most fascinating is the suggestion that Dorsey would have aggressively attempted to trade the first overall selection if his plan to acquire Alex Smith had worked.
Given the similarities, I'll assume that plan would likely extend to Kirk Cousins if the Browns get his signature - would the #1 pick still be shopped? I would think that's a strong possibility.
I think that trade would make a lot of sense. With the Giants at #2, Denver at #5, and the Jets at #6, there are options to amass some additional selections without falling too far off the map.
One thing that has been pointed out plenty is when McCloughan was asked on Twitter who he preferred - Guice or Barkley. McCloughan said (8/9/2017) Guice. While I don't think he carries that much influence in the building, it is a reminder of the front end talent in this draft providing valuable options. Guice is a tricky one - I often see him mocked early first or mid-second. He's a lot less pinned down that some of his fellow prospects.
With Washington and the 49ers out of the Cousins sweepstakes, it ultimately leaves the Browns and Jets as the most realistic suitors. I think Denver is overrated (Broke, old, 5-11) and the Vikings are somewhat up in the air.
If the Browns do sign Cousins, it will be interesting to see what Dorsey does with the first round selections.
Being reported the Jets are going to offer Cousins a 5 year, $150M contract. The interesting thing, however, is $60M would be paid in year one. For the remaining four years, his contract would drop to an average of $22.5M.
Jets are also expected to cut Mo Wilkerson and Matt Forte, amongst other moves that could push their cap space north of $90M.
It only looks big because every starting QB to get a new contract ultimately sets the market. Stafford and Jimmy G just got $27M per year deals. Luck and Carr before that got $25M per year deals. Rodgers, Flacco and Wilson before that got $21M-ish deals. Pretty much all starting QB's are on at least $20M per year.
If we want a quarterback, this is what we'll be paying him. They don't stay on rookie deals for long.
I don't understand the "price" arguments against Cousins. We're not finding someone who is taking $5M per year. Sooner or later, we're going to have to actually open the wallet for someone.
It only looks big because every starting QB to get a new contract ultimately sets the market. Stafford and Jimmy G just got $27M per year deals. Luck and Carr before that got $25M per year deals. Rodgers, Flacco and Wilson before that got $21M-ish deals. Pretty much all starting QB's are on at least $20M per year.
If we want a quarterback, this is what we'll be paying him. They don't stay on rookie deals for long.
I don't understand the "price" arguments against Cousins. We're not finding someone who is taking $5M per year. Sooner or later, we're going to have to actually open the wallet for someone.
hey bud !
I would not pay him that much because with a better team he has not pushed deep into the playoffs recently for me.
He is worth 35 a year or 175 mil for 5 years. All it takes to make it easy is to pay him a lot up front while we have huge cap space this year. Then his cap hit the following years becomes very manageable. We could give him 80 mil the first year so that his cap hit would only be 23.75 mil the next 4 years which is a very manageable cap hit. We are the only team with the cap space to do it. It still leaves us 35 mil in cap space to sign our rookies and free agents this year which is more than enough. Next year we would be back to having a large amount of cap space again but with a lot better team to draw in that one or two FA we need.
You're kinda right because it's not even my money. But still I'd rather pay Glennon 10 than give Cousins anything near 20.
If we sign Cousins I will obviously root for him, but I'll be doing so knowing we could have done better. It's going to look pretty silly in a couple years if we still have the mediocre cousins and Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen are leading their team to a Championship game.
Honestly, I don't see how anyone here can want him. We bypassed drafting a QB 2 years ago to try our luck with an ex-Redskin QB, it didn't work and people want us to do it again.
People will contend that Dorsey did this in 2013 when he took over with the chiefs. They had the first pick and traded for Alex Smith. Well look at the QBs in that draft, not one worth the first pick. In this draft, there's 4-5 talked about as being the #1 pick.
Cousins is nothing more than a desperation move to make the franchise relevant. We will probably win games, but we won't be going to any championships.
Wow, Kirk loses all my interest if those are the numbers needed to get him to talk contracts. He's just not THAT elite to me. I'm so up and down with signing/ignoring Kirk that I feel like seeing those numbers makes it easier to let the Jets, or whoever else, throw all their $ to a slightly above average QB. All jmo.
He's definitely not top 10... and it's debatable whether he's in the top half of the league. But he is better than what we've had and he'll probably win us a few games.
It only looks big because every starting QB to get a new contract ultimately sets the market. Stafford and Jimmy G just got $27M per year deals. Luck and Carr before that got $25M per year deals. Rodgers, Flacco and Wilson before that got $21M-ish deals. Pretty much all starting QB's are on at least $20M per year.
If we want a quarterback, this is what we'll be paying him. They don't stay on rookie deals for long.
I don't understand the "price" arguments against Cousins. We're not finding someone who is taking $5M per year. Sooner or later, we're going to have to actually open the wallet for someone.
I agree. I don't want to team to stay on cheap rookie deals.
The structure of rookie salaries was altered some years back with the idea that vets would be getting the money. Some may think it is too much, but the reality is that's what it takes to get a quality starting QB. Add in that there are 32 NFL teams and maybe 20 have decent QB's and the price gets higher.
We have been screwing around trying to find a QB for 20 years. Now we have a chance to get one. I am going to be seriously ticked if we don't make every effort to sign him. It better not come down to we didn't make the best offer. If Cousins goes elsewhere, it better be he just decided it was a better fit for him.
He's definitely not top 10... and it's debatable whether he's in the top half of the league. But he is better than what we've had and he'll probably win us a few games.
It's a fact that his numbers place him in the top ten. Period. The fact he put up those numbers under a dysfunctional owner like Synder is even more amazing. He would radically improve our team if we somehow got lucky enough to sign him.
It only looks big because every starting QB to get a new contract ultimately sets the market. Stafford and Jimmy G just got $27M per year deals. Luck and Carr before that got $25M per year deals. Rodgers, Flacco and Wilson before that got $21M-ish deals. Pretty much all starting QB's are on at least $20M per year.
If we want a quarterback, this is what we'll be paying him. They don't stay on rookie deals for long.
I don't understand the "price" arguments against Cousins. We're not finding someone who is taking $5M per year. Sooner or later, we're going to have to actually open the wallet for someone.
I agree. I don't want to team to stay on cheap rookie deals.
The structure of rookie salaries was altered some years back with the idea that vets would be getting the money. Some may think it is too much, but the reality is that's what it takes to get a quality starting QB. Add in that there are 32 NFL teams and maybe 20 have decent QB's and the price gets higher.
We have been screwing around trying to find a QB for 20 years. Now we have a chance to get one. I am going to be seriously ticked if we don't make every effort to sign him. It better not come down to we didn't make the best offer. If Cousins goes elsewhere, it better be he just decided it was a better fit for him.
He's definitely not top 10... and it's debatable whether he's in the top half of the league. But he is better than what we've had and he'll probably win us a few games.
It's a fact that his numbers place him in the top ten. Period. The fact he put up those numbers under a dysfunctional owner like Synder is even more amazing. He would radically improve our team if we somehow got lucky enough to sign him.
If Kirk was Brady, Manning, Brees or similar, okay then... throw the money his way and let's forget about it!!!!!!!!!! Kirk is pinch of salt above average to me. Nothing more, nothing less.
Is it better than what we have? Yes.
Is it better to have a vet QB you KNOW can hack the job and get it done? Yes.
Have we've been looking for years and years for a QB? Yes.
Is it better to overpay for someone/pay more for a slightly above average QB, and, pay more than the actual elite QBs are making, in a draft class where there's actually some notable QBs with talent and etc? That's the golden question. We all want the sure fire route to solidify the position, I know. We have a ton of cap, I know. What I don't know is if Kirk is just simply worth what he'll apparent will/is going to get and worth the huge hit to our cap, cap we will need in the future hopefully.
Maybe in another draft class where the QB selection is "less notable" would I be willing to just make the likes of a "get it done, but nothing more" QB the highest paid player, but we're not in that situation. Seeing the numbers from the Jets report, I just lose most if not all interest in Kirk.
He's definitely not top 10... and it's debatable whether he's in the top half of the league. But he is better than what we've had and he'll probably win us a few games.
It's a fact that his numbers place him in the top ten. Period. The fact he put up those numbers under a dysfunctional owner like Synder is even more amazing. He would radically improve our team if we somehow got lucky enough to sign him.
In fantasy football?
Kirk cousins ranks #8 in TD #9 in completion % #7 in passing yards #9 in Passing yards per attempt
Your the one in a fantasy world man. He IS a TOP 10 QB. That is fact.
Honestly, I don't see how anyone here can want him.
1. He is an established NFL QB something we have never had here...not too hard to figure out why dawgs would want him here.
2. Some fans just don't trust the drafted QB markets as evaluation is so hard to get right History shows 50% success. So the thought process is OK Sign Cousins and don't have to worry for QB investment at #1 n #4...go get other talent or trade back and get a boat load of futures.
ugh... so he's a pretty good fantasy quarterback... oddly, the exception Stafford (not sure he's top 10 either), the other top ten quarterbacks have been to a Super Bowl or Championship game while Cousins has never won a playoff game. Andy Dalton much?
ugh... so he's a pretty good fantasy quarterback... oddly, the exception Stafford (not sure he's top 10 either), the other top ten quarterbacks have been to a Super Bowl or Championship game while Cousins has never won a playoff game. Andy Dalton much?
I'd take any QB like Dalton, Cousins Stafford, Luck because they give us a shot to win some games. Heck if we can win some games, we can recruit better talent.
right now... we have no reason for someone to come to CLE except $.
give me cousins and the FA's will sign in CLe and and we keep Thomas for another year or two.
We have a real opportunity to draft our Franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. It's too bad that a $150 million dollar QB with an average record is muddying the waters.
Maybe if he had a better team around him he would have a better record. BTW Drew Brees W/L record for the last 4 years is 32-31 so I guess he is an average QB too.
I really think Dorsey will take a QB at #1 or #4 no matter who ( or if ) we sign in FA ..
I think that's a given.
What I don't get is that so many seem opposed to signing a high quality NFL starter as well. Heck, worst case scenario is that Cousins starts for 2 or 3 years, while the rookie sits and learns. (and we win a lot of games in the meantime, while we build the rest of the team to a high level)
I have soured a bit on signing Cousins because of the recent news of what the Jets are willing to pay. It would be an all-out bidding war that might reach epic proportions.
With that said, I think there is an issue on here about how good Cousins is. He is a far better qb than some are saying. They are not factoring in things like how his entire OL was hurt during the year, the lack of good RBs, and that Jake Reed was injured almost all year.
We have one poster in particular talking out of his butt, just like he always does. He says the same things over and over and logic and reason are thrown out the window. He told us emphatically 4-5 times a day that Hue was guaranteed to be fired and Sashi would remain. He keeps telling us over and over that Dorsey is going to draft Mayfield w/the first pick. He says things like Coleman is better than Michael Thomas. He claims that Rosen's teammates and coaches don't think he is a good leader or teammate.
Don't let his nonsensical trolling ruin the thread.
I am not sure what the Browns should do. We all have our preferences and some valid reasons for our opinions. I can honestly see why people could either really want Cousins or be skeptical of the signing. I like reading logical explanations on both side.
Maybe if he had a better team around him he would have a better record. BTW Drew Brees W/L record for the last 4 years is 32-31 so I guess he is an average QB too.
Yeah, he's probably getting there. But I'd take him over Cousins.
I really think Dorsey will take a QB at #1 or #4 no matter who ( or if ) we sign in FA ..
I think that's a given.
What I don't get is that so many seem opposed to signing a high quality NFL starter as well. Heck, worst case scenario is that Cousins starts for 2 or 3 years, while the rookie sits and learns. (and we win a lot of games in the meantime, while we build the rest of the team to a high level)
Given/say we intend to go all out for Kirk, won't dropping a first round on a QB make him mad or deteriorate any will he, and others, might have to come here?
Maybe if he had a better team around him he would have a better record. BTW Drew Brees W/L record for the last 4 years is 32-31 so I guess he is an average QB too.
Yeah, he's probably getting there. But I'd take him over Cousins.
I'd take Brees over Cousins any day if age weren't a factor as Brees is a HOF QB but I think Cousins is a top 10/12 QB in this league. I'd put him on a par with Stafford from Detroit. I don't have a problem with drafting a QB but the problem there is, are you gonna get a Tom Brady or a Ryan Leaf. Cousins may not be the best but he's still pretty good and you know what you are getting. My ideal situation is sign Cousins and draft Mike White with our late 2nd or our 3rd rnd pick.
lol, I don't like Stafford either, but I get your point and understand why you like Cousins. I don't think it's any more of a crap shoot drafting Rosen or Darnold that it was taking Wentz, Mariotta, or Winston. It's like we have a shot at our Elway or Aikman and all the Cousins situation is doing in my view is mucking up the decision process.
It doesn't muck anything up for me. I'd still draft a QB at #1 if we signed Cousins.
Either guy is trade-able if we choose go with the other long term. Hoping for the best by putting all of our eggs in one basket is a far worse scenario in my opinion.
It doesn't muck anything up for me. I'd still draft a QB at #1 if we signed Cousins.
You might, but Dorsey won't.
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Either guy is trade-able if we choose go with the other long term.
Not really, not at that price.
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Hoping for the best by putting all of our eggs in one basket is a far worse scenario in my opinion.
It's not hope, it's a strategy, and teams do it all the time. But I can't think of one instance where a team has signed the most expensive FA QB ever then drafted a QB #1.
I don't think anyone knows what Dorsey will do at this point. We do know he made an effort toward Alex Smith
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Not really, not at that price.
Do you mean Cousin's price? The price that teams are fighting to outbid each other on right now? Or the price of a rookie contract? Either of those contracts are going to look pretty cheap in a few years.
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It's not hope, it's a strategy, and teams do it all the time. But I can't think of one instance where a team has signed the most expensive FA QB ever then drafted a QB #1.
There is no strategy in skipping on one option because you are counting on being right in what amounts to your best guess in another option. Not many other teams have had the cap room and and the draft picks to do both. But "nobody has done it before" is a horrible excuse.
Wow, Kirk loses all my interest if those are the numbers needed to get him to talk contracts.
To be fair, it was not said that’s what it would take to get him to talk. I don’t think there have been any numbers thrown out there by Cousins or his agent. Those numbers came from the Jets. Reportedly.
Wow, Kirk loses all my interest if those are the numbers needed to get him to talk contracts.
To be fair, it was not said that’s what it would take to get him to talk. I don’t think there have been any numbers thrown out there by Cousins or his agent. Those numbers came from the Jets. Reportedly.
That said, the Jets can have him.
Yes. Yes they can. And be stuck in 6-10 and 9-7 seasons.
Kirk Cousins needs very good weapons around him. Go ahead and pony up New York. You have NOTHING in weapons. That's a desperation move. Go get him.
I think you're reaching on all counts, but I get your opinion. Just don't agree.
He is. And I don't agree either.
There is NO WAY on this good green Earth that ANY Team will EVER sign a FA QB to a North of 100M Contract and then turn around and take a QB #1 Overall.
If we sign Cousins I will obviously root for him, but I'll be doing so knowing we could have done better. It's going to look pretty silly in a couple years if we still have the mediocre cousins and Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen are leading their team to a Championship game.
And we'll also look silly if we draft a bust QB #1 overall while Cousins goes to another team and leads them to a championship game. That hypothetical scenario sways both ways.
In my mind, I'm a balance of probabilities guys. The probability Cousins continues to be a 4,500 yard + 30 TD per year kind of guy? Pretty damn high. Three years is enough for me to feel like someone has solidified what can be expected.
Now, the probability of drafting a QB who produces like Cousins? Actually, pretty low. There are a lot of busts, and a lot of guys who don't put up such numbers. Especially when the top pick assures nothing. A lot of the beloved franchise quarterbacks were not the first quarterback taken.
I'd feel more comfortable giving Cousins $30M per year to be himself than I would hoping a rookie becomes someone I want to give $30M per year too. (forgive the self-important tone, I just like pretending I'll ever have $30M to give haha).
I also admire Cousins as a leader. Watching some of his mic'd up moments is super impressive. Hearing about his work ethic and dedication is incredible. I'd love to add a guy like that to this roster. A legitimate quarterback with elite leadership traits to lead a young roster.
I'm not under the illusion that Kirk Cousins will be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers - but Cousins would debatably be the best QB in the AFC North, and absolutely would be when Roethlisberger retires in a year or two.
I just don't want the Browns trying to outsmart the world. Cousins is a damn good QB; why throw that away in the hopes one of the rookies becomes a top 3 quarterback?
I really don't want us to sign Cousins, but you make a very good argument.
Cousins is underrated by many. They point to his record and playoff appearances, but it's pretty obvious that most who are criticizing really haven't watched him play. There is nothing wrong w/that in and of itself. Heck, it probably means they have a life. However, making bold statements about how he isn't a good qb over and over again w/out really watching his games is not cool.
I'm not sure what the Browns should do. I get your points. My hesitation on signing him is because I do not believe we will draft a qb w/the first overall pick if we sign Cousins to a huge deal. That bothers me because I truly think that there is a qb in this draft who is destined for greatness.
But again, you make a strong argument and I can see the value in both opinions.
I have soured a bit on signing Cousins because of the recent news of what the Jets are willing to pay. It would be an all-out bidding war that might reach epic proportions.
With that said, I think there is an issue on here about how good Cousins is. He is a far better qb than some are saying. They are not factoring in things like how his entire OL was hurt during the year, the lack of good RBs, and that Jake Reed was injured almost all year.
We have one poster in particular talking out of his butt, just like he always does. He says the same things over and over and logic and reason are thrown out the window. He told us emphatically 4-5 times a day that Hue was guaranteed to be fired and Sashi would remain. He keeps telling us over and over that Dorsey is going to draft Mayfield w/the first pick. He says things like Coleman is better than Michael Thomas. He claims that Rosen's teammates and coaches don't think he is a good leader or teammate.
Don't let his nonsensical trolling ruin the thread.
I am not sure what the Browns should do. We all have our preferences and some valid reasons for our opinions. I can honestly see why people could either really want Cousins or be skeptical of the signing. I like reading logical explanations on both side.
We know what we are getting, a proven QB. Add a weapon like Barkley at back, and we challenge for the division crown NEXT year.
A real top QB doesn't go free very often. Screw some rookie who sells hope. Bring in a guy who can sell results.
I am all about results at this point. I mean results this year, not 2-3 4 years down the road.
I'll admit, as time goes on, my road gets shorter, but so does yours. You young blood's will be nearing the end of your road sooner then you think. Just saying....
This is a reasonable take and respect your opinion. I just don't agree. I see the production from Cousins but I don't think he instantly gives us the same production. The thought seems to be Cousins is automatically going to be good and is an answer to our QB woes. I don't necessarily agree. And I don't necessarily agree he brings better odds than a rookie you do so.
That bothers me because I truly think that there is a qb in this draft who is destined for greatness.
I agree with this. In fact I think there might be 2 or 3 or more. Could this be akin to the 1983 class? Too early to tell of course, but I do think this is a great QB class. However, we want to sign Cousins for 30 mil? No thanks, I'll take my chances in the draft.
I would like a QB that we know is proven, who can make the reads, who does not need to be tutored. One who has the footwork, the arm, who does not have concussion problems. I'm tired of the experiments. I'm tired of, "He has promise." I'm tired of the "We don't have a QB excuses." Get Cousins and fix the QB problem.
I will say this. If you want Cousins it's because you want to win now. You want to win while we still have Joe Thomas. You want to draft Saquan and another big playmaker like Courtland Sutton or Ridley. That's a huge and immediate impact.
If your drafting a QB at #1 then we don't win this year, you probably won't get an offensive playmaker in the first round and go defense instead. Well at least we will know in a year or two if our 50-50 shot at a QB works out but we didn't really do much to improve our ability to score except get a rookie QB who will play with a big hole at LT.
I prefer the picture we make with Cousins at QB vs drafting one.
But...I am not planning this season around Joe Thomas. I love him but it's not about him.
Obtaining Cousins is an attempt to win asap at whatever cost. Drafting a QB at #1 doesn't automatically mean you're not going to win. Wentz and Goff both took their teams to the playoffs in their second year.
Guys like Roethlisberger, Prescott, Dalton, Wilson, and Flacco led their teams to the playoffs as rookies. I think there are at least two rookies who could start right away. I think Darnold and Allen will need to sit. If we draft one of them, the veteran QB we sign could also lead the team to some wins. So it's no gaurantee we are losing by passing on Cousins.
These videos do nothing but make me angry and depressed. Angry because these guys are totally dissing the Browns, and depressed because they aren't wrong.
I went on a bender of those videos the other day, and one thing I consistently noticed - the hosts hated the Browns, the former players loved the idea.
Greg Jennings and Ladainian Tomlinson think Cleveland would be a great destination for Cousins, but the hosts who look about as athletic as an asthmatic turtle think it's a poor decision.
In reality, you can drive a nail through all the teams chasing Cousins. The "set" team in Minnesota won't be set for long because they just can't afford Cousins. Especially if they want any hope of bringing back the likes of Stefon Diggs, Danielle Hunter, Shariff Floyd, Anthony Barr, Eric Kendricks, Joe Berger and a host of other role players - not including the quarerbacks and running backs, with only Bradford having a large deal expiring.
The Browns, Broncos and Jets have serious roster issues. The Browns and the Jets are the only team with real assets to build. The Broncos have basic picks and no cap space, plus an aging roster that needs plenty of overturn over the next two years. Cousins, basically, is going to have to hope that Denver can hit on an uncommon amount of picks while convincing their other players to either take a pay cut or re-sign on the cheap.
The Jets are equally uncertain. They, too, have a lot of struggles on the offensive line. Their best receiver is currently facing nine charges, three of them felonies. Their best TE, with a long list of off-field issues himself, is off-contract. Forte and Wilkerson are expected to be cut. The Jets have a lot of cap space, but it's anticipatory space because they've got so many players off contract - all their receivers, and key defenders, including all their corners. That's one reason why there are rumors swirling that the Jets want to give him the contract that provides a $60M hit in year one - eat the cap hit in year one in attempts to have a chance to make some re-signings in the future.
SO Denver, New York and Minnesota are all incredibly uncertain. They've got more proven talent than the Browns, but to varying degrees all teams will struggle to maintain their existing talent. The onus will be on Cousins to carry the team unless their free agents and aging veterans can be effectively replaced.
The Browns, however, pose a lot more certainty.
Outside of Joe Thomas and Duke Johnson, the Browns have an incredibly young offense that is under contract for years to come. Gordon has his issues, but I feel we should be more confident than ever that it is behind him. Personally, I love Njoku.
The Browns also have implied certainty. Cousins almost certainly leads to Barkley. Given Haley's success with Roethlisberger and Bell, why wouldn't Cousins feel confident that himself and Barkley could run Haley's offense with similar effectiveness?
One would also assume that while the front office is new, you can have a great deal of confidence with Dorsey, Highsmith, Wolf and McCloughan are going to do, at least, a good job.
I could write a novel on it, but I think this is one reason that former players seem more receptive when it comes to a Cousins to Cleveland connection than some of the non-football voices within the media.
With our without Cousins, I love what the Browns offer. That stands true if Cousins goes elsewhere and we're building around a rookie.
I believe there is a lot of anti-Cleveland bias among the talking heads. I remember the day before LeBron signed to return to Cleveland, there were talking heads on ESPN absolutely denying James was coming back, even though he, himself, had pretty much said his wife wanted to come home and anyone man with any sense would certainly consider what his wife wants if he wants to stay married, but the talking heads said NO WAY. LeBron's wife LOVED Miami.. etc etc.
No one knows. Opinions are like a__holes, everyone has one. At this point in time, it is all speculation. Personally, I think Cleveland would be the best place for Cousins. A Young team that has been learning together, with huge cap space, 4 draft picks in the top 35, and a proven GM. No one else can match that.
As I've said many times, I'm flip-flopping all over the place on how we should address QB this offseason. It's a double-edged sword, really. You could get Cousins, who I think is an unusual FA QB option, in that I think he'll be very good if he joined up with us. Getting Cousins lands you a QB that carries much less uncertainty than any drafted prospect (even Rosen... at the end of the day, the draft is a crapshoot). Getting Cousins also allows you to seriously load up on some great talent. Getting 2/3 of Barkley, Minkah, and Chubb AND having your QB of the future is mind-blowing. The other side is that the QB talent coming out is really hard to pass up. Rosen looks like the real deal, Darnold might have to clean some stuff up, but he's also a prototypical prospect... and we have the pick of the litter.
It's a double-edged sword. If you get Cousins, it's doubtful you're grabbing one of those QBs in the draft. If you decide you're going to draft a QB at 1, that means you're passing on Cousins.
Yeah, it's hard what to do. We have options. Pay in FA. Top #1 pick to select whichever of the crop of QBs in the draft and etc - just hope we get it right and lay this issue to rest and start building it.
Don't forget the possibility of Dorsey finding a QB he really likes in rounds 2 - 4, oobernoober. If we picked up Cousins and loaded up on talent at the top, that is.
May I ask a rather dumb question, why would Cousins come here?
To me that's the biggest question of all. Now people can sit here and knock the national media for dissing the Browns all they want. Yet we've actually EARNED every single word of it! But the world we live in today is quick to shoot the messenger.
People say that we have the cap space to build around him. The draft picks to build around him. Yet we've had multiple draft picks and a huge amount of cap space for years now and where has it gotten us? Once again people will say but now we have a good core. A good DL and so on. Are people even willing to admit that people can obviously see a 1-15 record and an 0-16 record? That we have scant talent on O at the skill positions? Our fans are the ones that have a denial problem.
There will be teams with far better O's than we have bidding for Cousins. Cousins wants to win and is looking for the best opportunity for himself. Given the teams that will be looking to acquire his services, we will be viewed very low on that list.
To think a few million dollars one way or the other will be a deciding factor when looking at around 150 million dollar contract I think people may be fooling themselves. That's why the media doesn't see us as a likely destination for Cousins. Because it just makes sense not to see us that way.
Just as any Browns fan, I often overrate our talent. I often overrate our players. There are times I see through those orange colored glasses myself. Yet at the same time, I can pull back away from that long enough to be objective. It's highly unlikely that we have a shot of landing Kirk Cousins. In large part it is because of who we are.
There will be teams with far better O's than we have bidding for Cousins.
The teams interested in Cousins, with the wherewithal to actually get him are drastically limited. We are one of the (probably) three teams that actually has a shot at landing him.
Cousin's is a good quarterback. He has proven that.
I know the money is not mine but $30 mil for Cousins? I don't think he is that good.
I totally understand the idea behind getting Cousins. Win now etc.
I just don't want him over the number one pick in the draft.
I really like Darnold and Rosen. I believe both can be better than Cousins. You don't often get the number one pick in the draft.
I hear peoples "concerns" about Darnold and Rosen. But drafting one of these quarterbacks is a process. It is vetting at the highest level. At this point and up till draft day these players are going to be looked at as career players. Meaning we want a "franchise" guy for the next fifteen years.
When this decision is viewed under that light if one of these quarterback prospects passes all the in house tests then I want that guy over Cousins.
My opinion is Darnold is going to be a great player for a long time.
If Rosen is selected his injury history will be reviewed along with any other concerns about leadership if there are any. If he is selected then I am all in with Rosen.
Cousins addresses team needs today. He will be payed as if he is a top quarterback. As much as I respect him as a quarterback I would rather go with the top pick in the draft.
IMO, to say the Browns lack of established talent would turn off Cousins, but the similar lack of talent on the Jets, and the impending cap/roster issues with the Vikings and Denver aren't a problem is being a bit hypocritical.
Agree wholeheartedly. I think if we pass on Darnold or Rosen, we will be watching and regretting it for years to come as they become 2 of the better QBs in football - much like a number of QBs over the years. We have the opportunity this year to make it right - don't F#(@#()k it up.
The teams interested in Cousins, with the wherewithal to actually get him are drastically limited. We are one of the (probably) three teams that actually has a shot at landing him.
I think it's still going to be the Broncos that end up with Cousins. The Jets with an outside shot. I feel these two teams have a better chance at him than us.
If it is true that we are interested in Allen at #1, then I would be all for signing Cousins and drafting Lauletta or White in the 2nd round.
If there is a way, we might be the first in Berea. Those are astronomical numbers. No way in my lifetime I hope. Has to be some ceiling on the game's costs.
I could see it with him here, but nobody else gets payed. Just crazy math.
I don't want to be part of the "count the suckers" game for Cousins. Market will make everybody squirmish. A bidding war is one thing; there has to be a price too high. Make your best pitch and watch. I am more concerned about what we were willing to pay AJ. Cousins by comparison would be about ten times that.
I’m drawn, I get that Cousins is far better then what we’ve had in recent memory, but......
HE isn’t worth 30 mil, but and luckily for him that’s what the market says he’s worth. So depending on how you look at it he kinda is worth it. It’s a lot to pay a guy.
Ideally you have your “bridge” guy to hold the reins till the rookie is ready, we all know that. But that bridge guy also has to be the right type of player also. In a perfect world it’s a seasoned vet who is in the twilight of his career, I don’t see that option available to the Browns. Plus that guy has to have the right character, and mindset to be that guy. And Dorsey’s wanting to win(I tho k all of us want that), right away compounds that to a degree. I felt Alex Smith could have been a good candidate, but we lost out there. Looking at our options now, I’d say McCown is the closest. Not sure he’d want to come back or even if the FO views him as an option.
Rosen is the most ready to play right away, but I believe we’d struggle for another season with him out there. He’s good but he would still be a rookie on a young team. Darnold, imo, still needs some work on mechanics before he’s ready to get out there. I’m not sure how I feel about throwing a rookie out there right away, like what we did with Kizer who didn’t look ready. Kizer struggled, and people have written him off cause he did, I understand the feelings behind it, even if I don’t agree. So what happens when our new rookie struggles, similar to what Kizer did? Do we write him off too? I understand a 1st round pick is given a little more leeway being a 1st rounder, but if he puts up similar numbers to what Kizer did, then what?
Cousins is a proven commodity, he gives us the best chance to win right away, which this team needs more then any team has ever needed to. But the rookies have a chance to be better then Cousins in a few years, so I’m drawn. Win now, even if it is only mediocre, build around Cousins and move forward, or bring the rookie in be just above bad or continue being bad for a year or two then start winning, with a possible Rams type of turnaround in year two for the rookie.
I don't want to be part of the "count the suckers" game for Cousins. Market will make everybody squirmish. A bidding war is one thing; there has to be a price too high. Make your best pitch and watch. I am more concerned about what we were willing to pay AJ. Cousins by comparison would be about ten times that.
May I ask a rather dumb question, why would Cousins come here?
To me that's the biggest question of all. Now people can sit here and knock the national media for dissing the Browns all they want. Yet we've actually EARNED every single word of it! But the world we live in today is quick to shoot the messenger.
People say that we have the cap space to build around him. The draft picks to build around him. Yet we've had multiple draft picks and a huge amount of cap space for years now and where has it gotten us? Once again people will say but now we have a good core. A good DL and so on. Are people even willing to admit that people can obviously see a 1-15 record and an 0-16 record? That we have scant talent on O at the skill positions? Our fans are the ones that have a denial problem.
There will be teams with far better O's than we have bidding for Cousins. Cousins wants to win and is looking for the best opportunity for himself. Given the teams that will be looking to acquire his services, we will be viewed very low on that list.
To think a few million dollars one way or the other will be a deciding factor when looking at around 150 million dollar contract I think people may be fooling themselves. That's why the media doesn't see us as a likely destination for Cousins. Because it just makes sense not to see us that way.
Just as any Browns fan, I often overrate our talent. I often overrate our players. There are times I see through those orange colored glasses myself. Yet at the same time, I can pull back away from that long enough to be objective. It's highly unlikely that we have a shot of landing Kirk Cousins. In large part it is because of who we are.
We do have the CAP space, we've almost always had it.., But having it and using it is the problem. We need to actually use the money to get the players we need.
Cousin's is a good quarterback. He has proven that.
I know the money is not mine but $30 mil for Cousins? I don't think he is that good.
I totally understand the idea behind getting Cousins. Win now etc.
I just don't want him over the number one pick in the draft.
I really like Darnold and Rosen. I believe both can be better than Cousins. You don't often get the number one pick in the draft.
I hear peoples "concerns" about Darnold and Rosen. But drafting one of these quarterbacks is a process. It is vetting at the highest level. At this point and up till draft day these players are going to be looked at as career players. Meaning we want a "franchise" guy for the next fifteen years.
When this decision is viewed under that light if one of these quarterback prospects passes all the in house tests then I want that guy over Cousins.
My opinion is Darnold is going to be a great player for a long time.
If Rosen is selected his injury history will be reviewed along with any other concerns about leadership if there are any. If he is selected then I am all in with Rosen.
Cousins addresses team needs today. He will be payed as if he is a top quarterback. As much as I respect him as a quarterback I would rather go with the top pick in the draft.
Cousin's is a good quarterback. He has proven that.
I know the money is not mine but $30 mil for Cousins? I don't think he is that good.
I totally understand the idea behind getting Cousins. Win now etc.
I just don't want him over the number one pick in the draft.
I really like Darnold and Rosen. I believe both can be better than Cousins. You don't often get the number one pick in the draft.
I hear peoples "concerns" about Darnold and Rosen. But drafting one of these quarterbacks is a process. It is vetting at the highest level. At this point and up till draft day these players are going to be looked at as career players. Meaning we want a "franchise" guy for the next fifteen years.
When this decision is viewed under that light if one of these quarterback prospects passes all the in house tests then I want that guy over Cousins.
My opinion is Darnold is going to be a great player for a long time.
If Rosen is selected his injury history will be reviewed along with any other concerns about leadership if there are any. If he is selected then I am all in with Rosen.
Cousins addresses team needs today. He will be payed as if he is a top quarterback. As much as I respect him as a quarterback I would rather go with the top pick in the draft.
I agree with this. (I find I usually agree with Bone.) I want to throw 1 more comment in this mix.
We know Cousins is good but not great. He's better than any QB we've had in recent memory. Signing him would have immediate impact. Cousins is 30 this year. Of all the top QBs in the draft, Baker is the oldest at 23, Darnold is 20, and Rosen is 21.
Signing Cousins (and forgoing the top QB in the draft) yields a considerably shorter run before the need to replace (barring injury.) Even if the drafted rookie ends up no better than Kirk, we would likely have about 10 more years of that level of play available to us. And if they're better than Cousins, signing Cousins for a year or two of good play now could very well cost us 10 years of better play down the road.
I hear peoples "concerns" about Darnold and Rosen. But drafting one of these quarterbacks is a process. It is vetting at the highest level. At this point and up till draft day these players are going to be looked at as career players. Meaning we want a "franchise" guy for the next fifteen years.
When this decision is viewed under that light if one of these quarterback prospects passes all the in house tests then I want that guy over Cousins.
I agree with all the vetting and the evaluating...the people whose jobs are to do all of the above. To watch hours upon hours of tape and to meet with and discuss it endlessly into the wee hours of the morning. However, all of the above took place and yet we passed on Wentz and said he wasn't a top 20 QB. We then passed on Watson. Not to mention the others we missed out on over the years and the ones we ended up choosing.
Don't get me wrong..I believe we have some brilliant guys in our FO and things are looking up. But, I don't see Dorsey having some top QB drafts in his resume (jury is still out on Mahomes). Also, I did get super excited when we brought in Holmgren only to be very disappointed. Again, I don't expect such an epic failure with Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf calling the shots...BUT, I am guardedly and cautiously optimistic and at this point would prefer to take Cousins knowing what he can bring to the table. Then bring in Barkley at 1 and Fitz at 4. Take a QB later (Rudolph is my immediate choice for tier 2 QB...maybe White?).
I don't know...I am keeping my mind open and trying to get on board with the top 4 (Rosen/Darnold/Mayfield/Allen). Jackson doesn't seem to factor...not sure why. Watson didn't last year and he has had the last laugh. Maybe Lamar will too?
Yet when you think about it, a lot of our QB troubles are by doing exactly as you suggest we do. We pass on top rated QB's and draft one later. We pick the third or fourth rated guy while we ignore the top guys.
Forgive me if I don't suggest we follow down that same path.
Yet when you think about it, a lot of our QB troubles are by doing exactly as you suggest we do. We pass on top rated QB's and draft one later. We pick the third or fourth rated guy while we ignore the top guys.
Forgive me if I don't suggest we follow down that same path.
That's fine. As long as they do their due diligence and their homework and get it right for a change! Going on past draft picks (with exception to a few notables such as Sipe and Kosar, some could argue our QB draft woes extend as far back as Phipps!) I think I am forgiven for being a tad worried we might botch it up again.
To me, the key to your post is, "Cousins is a good quarterback. He has proven that." In 20 years, the Browns have not had a proven QB, in his prime, as Cousins is. A proven QB, not an unproven rookie. A QB with no injury concerns, no concussion issues, no footwork problems, no questions about his ability to read defenses, no windup issues, no questions about his ability to move in the pocket, no questions about him being able to feel pressure. The most proven QB to reach Free Agency at this stage of his career. EVER. Proven. No Questions of his ability. No crap shoot.
If the Browns do not go for Cousins, you have to seriously question the Front office's desire to improve the team. All the complaints about Hue, have to be tossed aside. The Browns have the 5th toughest schedule in the NFL next year. A clear chance for another 0 - 16. The Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals schedules are not as tough.. Why ?? Because they play the Browns twice each.
I want to see the Browns succeed. I want to see Hue succeed. Against next year's schedule, the only way I see the Browns winning any games is NUMBER 1.. SIGN COUSINS. As Vers pointed out last year, yes .. the Browns will improve in the draft and Free Agency, but so will the other 31 teams. Make the effort. Pay the man, get some other quality Free Agents, then build thru the draft. We have only tried to improve greatly 1 time since the return, and made the playoffs that time. No more half way measures.
Cousin's is a good quarterback. He has proven that.
I know the money is not mine but $30 mil for Cousins? I don't think he is that good.
This makes me wonder if bringing in Scot McCloughan was primarily to get his take on Cousins. Interviews and meeting a player in person is a big part of the decision making process. But it's one thing to Interview a guy and have him in for a workout and a whole nuther thing to have spent a season or two around him.
I know McCloughan said Cousins is not special but there's always more behind a statement like that than meets the eye/ear.
Decent discussion in the most recent round of posts.
I want to throw something a bit different out there. Most of the conversation is about whether or not the Browns should go all in for Cousins. That's a worthwhile conversation.
However, what if you are Kirk Cousins? Why would you choose the Browns?
I can only answer that question by using my own personal feelings on the situation. If I am Kirk Cousins, I look at the Browns and see:
Positives:
--Lot's of cap space --Many upcoming draft picks --A solid FO --A respected HC.
Negatives:
--Browns are 1 and 31 over the last two seasons --Lack of talent/production/experience at WR and TE --A town whose media and vocal fan base wants the coach fired --An owner who fires coaches/FO personnel every year
Bottom line: If I am Kirk Cousins, I could get over the Brown's recent record and lack of production from the skill players because of all the draft picks and a pretty good FO in place. However, no way in the world would I want to go to a team where the fan base and media are calling for the HC to be fired and the owner has a history of firing people. No, I would want to go to a team w/a more stable environment.
Moral of the story: Sometimes, Brown's fans are their own worst enemy.
May I ask a rather dumb question, why would Cousins come here?
Moneywise, yeah, we got the cap room to pay whatever we need to.
But from a winning standpoint, we are further away then Denver.. We have about $110 Million and Denver has about 25 million.
The Jets sure could use a QB, and they have about 82 Million.
If MOney is all it takes, we could win hands down. If he wants to win now, Denver can find a way and he'd have a much better chance at a ring fast.
I think we can with a QB and good use of our picks. We now have Haley in charge of the O....a big upgrade. We will end up using the players who help
We still have Hue....that could drive Cousins away, but all Hue has to do is remember where he put his red flag when someone upstairs tells him to challenge a call and call time out when his associate head coach tells him to call one.
However, what if you are Kirk Cousins? Why would you choose the Browns?
1. Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf are all highly respected FB guys. 2. Hue Jackson is a highly respected coach. 3. The cap space and the draft picks 4. The belief that with FA and the current draft picks the Browns are actually looking like a team that could dramatically improve (if the three gents in #1 get it right). 5. Best LT in the league, however, you can't expect him to be there this year, let alone the 4 years you may sign as a contract. 6. The fans 7. The history of the club 8. If you win you will literally be a hero in a city that would be more than willing to trade LeBron and a Cavs championship for a Browns one.
I'm sorry, but no way in the world would I choose the Browns if I were Kirk Cousins and it all starts w/how many fans want Hue fired and that we have a trigger-happy owner. No way would I sign w/a team who might lose their HC during or immediately following the season.
Hell, just look at the mindset of peen in the post prior to yours. Nope, too many dumb ass fans who get the ear of the owner for me to sign w/that team.
However, what if you are Kirk Cousins? Why would you choose the Browns?
1. Dorsey, Highsmith and Wolf are all highly respected FB guys.
They are, but so are a lot of other people on other teams 2. Hue Jackson is a highly respected coach.
I guess. I think there are about 26 other coaches respected more. 3. The cap space and the draft picks
I agree with this point 4. The belief that with FA and the current draft picks the Browns are actually looking like a team that could dramatically improve (if the three gents in #1 get it right).
I agree with this point. 5. Best LT in the league, however, you can't expect him to be there this year, let alone the 4 years you may sign as a contract.
I agree on Joe, just not sure how long he is going to play 6. The fans
Sounds great, but there are lot's of teams with dedicated fans. We aren't anything special. 7. The history of the club
That doesn't matter at all, and for most players in the league, the Browns have sucks for as long as they have watched football. For that matter, most fans of the game. We won out last championship in 1964. How old were you in 1964?
8. If you win you will literally be a hero in a city that would be more than willing to trade LeBron and a Cavs championship for a Browns one.
I doubt Cousins sees that side of the fanbase and even if he does he will know how to drown the noise out. Pretty sure a lot of the players ignore the distractions from fans and journalists, social media, criticism etc. Otherwise, it would be too much for any person to handle.
All of us fans want the same thing....to win. But, we will always have differing opinions as to how to get there. As we have had years and years of losing it only exacerbates the passion and patience has worn thin.
I doubt that Cousins is impressed by the Brown's history and I think he knows that he will be revered in any location if he wins.
I am being truthful. No way would I sign w/a team if I thought their HC was probably going to lose their job. That is far more important that the Browns winning a championship in 1964 and winning a few in a league that does not exist anymore.
Once again...........our fans and media outsmart themselves.
I doubt Cousins sees that side of the fanbase and even if he does he will know how to drown the noise out. Pretty sure a lot of the players ignore the distractions from fans and journalists, social media, criticism etc. Otherwise, it would be too much for any person to handle.
All of us fans want the same thing....to win. But, we will always have differing opinions as to how to get there. As we have had years and years of losing it only exacerbates the passion and patience has worn thin.
You would think it a plus the fan base wanted a 1-31 HC gone to get rid of the loser mentality. He was fired from the Raiders at 8-8 and players still want to go there.
I doubt that Cousins is impressed by the Brown's history and I think he knows that he will be revered in any location if he wins.
I am being truthful. No way would I sign w/a team if I thought their HC was probably going to lose their job. That is far more important that the Browns winning a championship in 1964 and winning a few in a league that does not exist anymore.
Once again...........our fans and media outsmart themselves.
If we win, Hue wont lose his job.
If we throw $$$ at FAs and have another great draft and we continue to bottom out and only win 3-4 games. He loses his job and at that point I will say, rightfully so.
Not sure what the magic # will be to keep him.....maybe .500 given we are 1-31. Maybe higher. But, I do believe we can dramatically turn the team around if we get the right players in both FA and Draft.
But, last year we all spent a lot of time and energy talking about JG and it never happened. So, I am not getting my hopes up. I am fully expecting Chase Daniels, Matt Moore, Bradford or McCarron to be signed and drafting a QB high. This is why I asked you a few questions last night about Rosen and spent 30 minutes watching video of him.
I agree with Verse. Hue should be fired and replaced before we go after Cousins. If I were Cousins, I wouldn't want anything to do with a 1-31 coach. I blame the fans as well because they haven't been vocal enough for Haslam to listen.
I'm sorry, but no way in the world would I choose the Browns if I were Kirk Cousins and it all starts w/how many fans want Hue fired and that we have a trigger-happy owner. No way would I sign w/a team who might lose their HC during or immediately following the season.
Hell, just look at the mindset of peen in the post prior to yours. Nope, too many dumb ass fans who get the ear of the owner for me to sign w/that team.
LOl....well, maybe, OR, maybe he isn't as thrilled with a coach who hasn't been able to win a game for this team. I don't count a blocked kick as coaching us to a win.
I really don't want Hue fired. I don't. I just don't see how he is going to be able to coach well enough to keep his job. Maybe with all the help we have brought in they will be able to help prop him up.
It's all about wins. You seem to blame Shasi for all out woes. No doubt he screwed up not drafting a QB last year. That cost him his job.
I don't think Hue is a team player.
I think he is way overrated as a coach.
He isn't a head coach.....he is a coordinator.
So call me a dumb ass....I can take it, not do I care. I have come to know you and know there isn't a coach you don't like....good or bad. That's cool. As you said, we all have our opinions.
History says Hue has had the worst 2 year run in NFL history.
History is history. It doesn't change until people try to make revisions.
Plus, IMO opinion the dumb ass to get the ear of the owner was Hubris.
I will ask you a question.....how many years do you think it will take Hue to get HIS record back to .500 as the Browns head coach? 2-3...7..12, NEVER?
Offer him 5 years, 170 mil, 70 mil up front, 25 mil each year for the last 4 years. Fully guaranteed. A very team friendly contract. Then see what he says. If he says no, then we tried and offered him the best we could do. We have to try. We would still have cap space to proceed. After all, we just paid more than 15 mil this past year for Osweiller to play in Denver.
First, I don't want Cousins... but saying you don't think he'll sign here because he wants to win is a bit crazy. If that's his reasoning, then I don't want him even if I did.
I would want him to feel he could come in here and carry a franchise. Not the other way around. I want him to think he would be the reason his HC keeps his job.
There are at least two maybe three quarterbacks in the draft who welcome this challenge of turning around a failing franchise. Allen, Mayfield, and I think Darnold have all seemed to embrace the idea of being a Cleveland Brown.
If Cousins is offered a great deal from the Browns and turns it down for less money to go somewhere else... he's simply telling you he couldn't do the job. I get the winning part, but my quarterback has to believe he is good enough to make a difference.
He has to show some of that cockiness and be a little arrogant about who he is and what he can do. If he doesn't, and doesn't want to be here because he "wants to win" he's the wrong guy plain and simple.
1. Blow away the market for Kirk Cousins. The Browns have approximately $110.7 million in cap space and all the draft picks on the planet. They're the worst team in football and have no viable option at quarterback, which isn't anything new. Pro Football Reference's adjusted net yards per attempt index (ANY/A+) measures a quarterback's performance against league average and adjusts it for era. The new Browns have had just one quarterback post an ANY/A+ greater than the average mark of 100 over a 300-attempt season, and that was Derek Anderson a decade ago.
If you were Cousins and about to become absurdly rich regardless of where you decide to head this offseason, why would you choose the Browns? Why would you pick $100 million over three years from the Browns if you could get $90 million over the same time frame from the Broncos? Why would you pick the annual organizational chaos of Jimmy Haslam in Cleveland over the stability of the Jaguars or Vikings?
No, if the Browns want to be a credible choice for Cousins, they need to make an offer that fundamentally blows away whatever anyone else in the league is thinking. Cousins is set to become the league's first $30 million-per-year quarterback. If you're the Browns and you want to give Cousins something to think about, what's stopping you from offering him $40 million per year? You want a quarterback, right? The Browns could hand Cousins a five-year, $200 million deal with a $20 million signing bonus and $30 million roster bonuses in each of the first two seasons of the contract, guaranteeing him a total of $91 million over two years. Cleveland could then offer Cousins an opt-out after Year 2 if things go horrifically south, with Cousins pocketing a $30 million option bonus if he decides to stay. The resulting deal would pay Cousins $144 million over its first three years, which would be a totally unprecedented total:
That's probably the absolute ceiling of what a Cousins offer would look like. The Browns might be the only team in the league that can make this sort of proposal without kneecapping its roster, in part because they have so many players who will be on cheap rookie contracts over the next several seasons. This deal gives Cousins the chance to leave or renegotiate after two seasons if things aren't the way he wants while also giving the former Michigan State product one more trip to free agency at 34.
Cousins could theoretically ask teams for a fully guaranteed deal, but teams would likely reduce the money available to Cousins on a fully guaranteed pact, and quarterbacks with Cousins' leverage and track record of staying healthy are better off opting for a traditional deal with a higher ceiling than the elevated floor of a fully guaranteed pact.
Should the Browns do this? At the very least, it's defensible. Hue Jackson could go after AJ McCarron and take a quarterback with the first overall pick, but why should anyone have faith in the Browns to successfully develop a passer after the past couple of seasons under Jackson? All things equal, the Browns are going to have to overpay for talent. They might as well overpay for a franchise quarterback.
This is an organization that valued a second-round pick from the Texans at somewhere between $10 million and $16 million as part of the Brock Osweiler swap. Signing Cousins frees up a far more valuable asset -- the first overall selection -- to be used elsewhere on the roster. If Cleveland signed Cousins, the Browns could parlay that first overall pick into Saquon Barkley, a terrifying one-two punch at defensive end with Myles Garrett and Bradley Chubb, or trade down for a massive haul from a team in love with one of the draft's quarterbacks at No. 1 overall.
2. If they don't get Cousins, pay for a bridge quarterback in advance of drafting a QB No. 1, and don't make a serious investment in McCarron. Assuming the Browns don't persuade Cousins to make his home in Cleveland, they'll be in the market for a veteran quarterback and a guy with one of their two first-round picks. The logical move has been to link the Browns to McCarron, whom Hue Jackson nearly traded for at the deadline in October.
The infamous failed attempt to acquire McCarron actually worked out well for the Browns, who almost dealt second- and third-round picks to the Bengals to acquire the former Alabama starter. An 0-8 Browns team would have been trading for McCarron under the assumption that he would have lost his arbitration dispute with the league and remained under contract through the end of the 2018 season. Instead, McCarron won his dispute, which would have meant that the Browns would have been paying for the privilege of letting McCarron prop up a meaningless season before either giving him a long-term contract, franchising the 27-year-old or allowing him to leave.
The trade value Jackson was willing to offer suggests that the Browns would be interested in making McCarron a meaningful offer to take over as their quarterback. That would be a very risky proposition. If you're a McCarron backer, you can point out that he went 2-1 as a starter with the Bengals in 2015, left Cincinnati in line to win a playoff game over the Steelers before Jeremy Hill's improbable fumble and has a 93.6 career passer rating. All of those things are true.
They're also far from a complete story. McCarron took over an offense that was humming on all cylinders during what was a career year for Andy Dalton, and given Dalton's track record in every other one of his pro seasons, it suggests that the players around Dalton -- and, therefore McCarron -- were driving much of Cincinnati's success. The Bengals had one of the league's best offensive lines that year, with Andrew Whitworth & Co. combining to miss only two starts in 80 regular-season games. Hill and Giovani Bernard were both healthy and effective. Tyler Eifert suited up for 13 games. A.J. Green, Marvin Jones and Mohamed Sanu were in for full seasons. That offense oozed talent.
McCarron was worse than Dalton across the board save for a modest jump in completion percentage, which was due to the fact that his average pass traveled nearly one yard shorter in the air. Dalton's yards per attempt and passer rating were well above McCarron's. McCarron's sack rate was double that of Dalton, which is in part due to inexperience, but also suggests McCarron might not be the quickest to make decisions in the pocket. Dalton's Total QBR was 72.5 that season, which was good for fourth in the league. McCarron's was 54.8, which ranked 26th.
In addition, McCarron had virtually no success moving the football in that Bengals-Steelers playoff matchup. The Bengals scored 16 points in a game where he threw an interception and fumbled three times, one of which cost Cincinnati a likely field goal opportunity. The team racked up all of two first downs in the first half, and while McCarron improved after the break, the Bengals' two touchdown drives in the game each started from the Pittsburgh 45-yard line. It's true that the Bengals were in a position to win before the Hill fumble, but the Bengals crawled back into the game only after temporarily knocking Ben Roethlisberger out.
Is McCarron worth a shot as a bridge passer? I would say yes at the right price, but it's really about the right level of emotional investment. If the Browns sign McCarron and give him a shot before turning to the first overall pick if McCarron struggles, that's totally reasonable. If they sign McCarron to a multiyear contract, commit to him as their starter and don't otherwise address the position? That would be throwing up a prayer.
3. Re-sign Josh Gordon and Jason McCourty. Gordon is an exclusive rights free agent, so the Browns will have no trouble bringing him back. They could try to offer Gordon an extension with modest money up front and heavy per-game roster bonuses, which wouldn't be the worst idea in the world with the right protections.
Outside of Joe Thomas, who has suggested the Browns should start thinking about a future without their future Hall of Fame left tackle, McCourty is Cleveland's most pressing free agent in 2019. The 30-year-old had an excellent rebound year after being dumped by the Titans, and while the Browns have him signed for one more season at less than $3 million, now would be a good time to approach McCourty with an extension designed to keep him in the building through 2019 or 2020.
The other 2019 free agent-to-be worth mentioning is Duke Johnson, who plays a valuable role as the team's receiving back and would continue to serve as a safety valve for whomever ends up playing quarterback in 2018. Johnson could stick around at a deal just north of the three-year, $12 million pact James White signed in New England.
4. Don't overpay for a running back. It's understandably tempting for the Browns to draft a quarterback with the first overall pick and hope to select Penn State's Saquon Barkley with the Texans' selection at fourth overall. I don't think anybody could fault Cleveland for doing that if Barkley is still on the board, given how explosive he looked at Penn State.
At the same time, we don't have a ton of evidence that taking running backs at the top of the draft has really been a great idea. Trent Richardson was obviously a disaster. Ezekiel Elliott certainly delivered for the Cowboys, but Dallas passed on Jalen Ramsey to take Elliott, and Ramsey is a better player at a more valuable position. The Cowboys might look back and wish they had selected Ramsey and taken a running back like Jordan Howard later in the draft.
The Jaguars are happy to have taken Leonard Fournette in 2017, but is Fournette the best back from his draft class after Year 1? Third-round pick Alvin Kamara is certainly a different sort of player, but he was far more productive than Fournette last season. Third-rounder Kareem Hunt might be the most complete back of the class so far. The Jags shouldn't regret taking Fournette, but what would have happened in 2017 if they had drafted Deshaun Watson?
Barkley could be a better prospect than any of those guys, and the Browns do need a running back with Isaiah Crowell hitting free agency. Barkley could turn out to be a transcendent superstar. It's also not difficult to imagine Cleveland getting more out of waiting to draft a running back -- or signing someone like Dion Lewis in free agency -- and using the fourth pick on NC State pass-rusher Bradley Chubb, Alabama defensive back Minkah Fitzpatrick or the draft's best offensive tackle.
5. Acquire a free safety and add help at cornerback. While Jabrill Peppers has the athleticism to play just about anywhere, his rookie year suggested that the Michigan product is likely best as an in-the-box safety. Unfortunately, this isn't a great market for free safeties. The best option is Lamarcus Joyner, who had his first excellent season as a pro while primarily playing free safety in 2017, but he could still return to the Rams. More likely, the Browns will have to use one of their many draft picks to find a player capable of playing center field.
First, I don't want Cousins... but saying you don't think he'll sign here because he wants to win is a bit crazy. If that's his reasoning, then I don't want him even if I did.
I would want him to feel he could come in here and carry a franchise. Not the other way around. I want him to think he would be the reason his HC keeps his job.
There are at least two maybe three quarterbacks in the draft who welcome this challenge of turning around a failing franchise. Allen, Mayfield, and I think Darnold have all seemed to embrace the idea of being a Cleveland Brown.
If Cousins is offered a great deal from the Browns and turns it down for less money to go somewhere else... he's simply telling you he couldn't do the job. I get the winning part, but my quarterback has to believe he is good enough to make a difference.
He has to show some of that cockiness and be a little arrogant about who he is and what he can do. If he doesn't, and doesn't want to be here because he "wants to win" he's the wrong guy plain and simple.
Absolutely agree. The ‘challenge’: if you are up to it and perform, you will have a statue erected at the stadium entrance...
It's not gone unnoticed how you set up a scenario that if the Browns do start winning with Hue as the HC all of the credit will go to everyone but Hue for it.
It's not gone unnoticed how you set up a scenario that if the Browns do start winning with Hue as the HC all of the credit will go to everyone but Hue for it.
Actually Hue set that up all by himself.He did that by shifting the blame to everyone else. There's nobody left to blame now.
Cousins has made it pretty clear. I have made a lot of money. I am going to get paid a lot of money. I want to win.
The Browns are behind other better options for the criterion set by Cousins.
I don't think he will be with the Browns and have never thought he would. Overall for both parties it is not a good fit.
Should the Browns throw a number out there? Sure. But don't hold your breath. ============================================
As I have stated I don't really care if Cousins goes elsewhere.
The Vikings situation will give us an option. And really I have no problem with McCown. In fact I would hire McCown to play and then coach.
It's going to work out. The Browns as we have known them to be are gone. This FO is a new regime and they will get results. The group is staffed with knowledgeable professionals who know what to do. They have the owners backing. They have the money. They have the draft capital. And they have a good core of young talented players.
If Cousins is offered a great deal from the Browns and turns it down for less money to go somewhere else... he's simply telling you he couldn't do the job. I get the winning part, but my quarterback has to believe he is good enough to make a difference.
I fully expect the Browns to show significant improvement simply because of the people we've added the past two years, amount of picks in a good draft, the expectation that a better QB will be on this roster, and we have a different offensive coorindator. Both the HC and the FO are in really good spots right now.
Cousins has made it pretty clear. I have made a lot of money. I am going to get paid a lot of money. I want to win.
The Browns are behind other better options for the criterion set by Cousins.
I don't think he will be with the Browns and have never thought he would. Overall for both parties it is not a good fit.
Should the Browns throw a number out there? Sure. But don't hold your breath. ============================================
As I have stated I don't really care if Cousins goes elsewhere.
The Vikings situation will give us an option. And really I have no problem with McCown. In fact I would hire McCown to play and then coach.
It's going to work out. The Browns as we have known them to be are gone. This FO is a new regime and they will get results. The group is staffed with knowledgeable professionals who know what to do. They have the owners backing. They have the money. They have the draft capital. And they have a good core of young talented players.
I am not sweating this process. Super confident.
Once again, I agree with everything Bone says here. But I think a lot of people are expecting instant results. The thing to remember that as much quality as we get in this draft class, they will all still be rookies. We can expect a learning curve. The rookies from last year (and here I include S. Coleman) should be better. The team, overall, should be better just by growth of the 2nd and 3rd year players. If this FO is as good as we all hope, then the Browns future looks bright. But this year will not be the year we make the playoffs.
Trying to diss a QB because he looks for the best possible scenario to play in makes zero sense. Putting yourself in a worse situation on purpose would make him the fool.
Out of all the options ... McCown is the one that makes the most sense so i hope he’s our bridge QB .. he fits the definition in every way for what our version of a bridge QB is ...
I really hope the Jets get Cousins .. that would open the door for McCown to come here ...
I want to see the Browns put out the effort to get Cousins. If he says no, then he says no, but no effort makes the new Front Office seem like "same ol' Browns."
I think the Browns need a Plan A, Plan B, Plan C, etc., and need to communicate this to fans. The need for transparency is obvious. Where working behind the scenes is good to try to get the players here, the closed mouthed policies of the past will just create more animosity. We have seen too many times where other teams have made trades, or signed players and wondered.. Did the Browns even try to get them?
To get the players in here and fans in the seats, the FO needs to show they are willing and able to do what is needed to improve the team.
Read the posts before and after yours to get a sense of just how messed up our fan base is.
...We've won 1 game in 2 years and saw little to no progress from our young players (particularly on O.)
How should the fan base feel?
Would any fan base handle that much losing well?
Steelers fans were wanting to get rid of Tomlin after a playoff season.
A lot of fans have stuck with the team despite years (decades) of losing. Winning fixes a lot.
The thing that gives me a small inkling of hope with Cousins is proximity to his family in Michigan whom it appears he is really close to. He owns land on the lake.
I'd focus my pitch on that. I'd also probably mention the investment in keeping the QB upright through the OL, and have JT make an appearance.
It's not gone unnoticed how you set up a scenario that if the Browns do start winning with Hue as the HC all of the credit will go to everyone but Hue for it.
Great. I think the guys an idiot. I don't veil my feelings.
I know that will get both you and Vers mad at me, but I don't care. I still consider both of you good friends.
I just don't think the guy is a good head coach. I don't like him. He's a "me" type of guy.
Again, this is just my opinion....Me, mine, I....I don't expect to change anybody elses thinking. I am not even trying. I am just expressing my opinion on a message board.
We are all here just "talking," sharing our opinions but it seems there's 2 or 3 who are just looking to divvy up teams for a dodgeball game.
I wonder how upset some would be if a poster frequently expressed how much he/she loved Hue? I wonder if it's the difference in opinion or the frequency at which someone expresses their opinion that is most upsetting? Hmmm...food for thought.
I wonder how upset some would be if a poster frequently expressed how much he/she loved Hue?
I'm guessing it would be the same two posters who would be equally upset if the opinion was reversed. The rest of us would just continue the daily debate as normal.
I know that will get both you and Vers mad at me, but I don't care. I still consider both of you good friends.
I'm not mad at you Peen. Not in the slightest. That's not how I roll unless someone makes it personal as a few on here do.
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I just don't think the guy is a good head coach. I don't like him. He's a "me" type of guy.
Again, this is just my opinion....Me, mine, I....I don't expect to change anybody elses thinking. I am not even trying. I am just expressing my opinion on a message board.
And that's fine that you feel that way. I'm not trying to begrudge anyone of their feelings. It does however bother me that you are setting up a scenario that no matter what happens, even if it's good you will give Hue zero credit for it.
As if Hue will be nothing more than a figure head and if the team does well everyone around him will receive all of the credit and and Hue will have played no part in it. So no matter what happens, you have zero ability to be wrong.
Believe me, I don't feel that Hue is some great coach no matter what comments people make on the subject. I do believe that if given some actual talent on on O he could easily grow into the role. I don't know that's true but I believe that it's possible.
I just never thought of you as a guy who would try to set up a scenario to where your mind is made up no matter what the future holds. That you would not at least be open minded to see progression in Hue if and when it does occur. That's just an angle that I didn't expect from you.
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Hope you are doing well my friend.
My family and I are doing very well Peen. I hope the same holds true for you and yours my friend.
“I think those chances are out the window, to be totally honest with you,” Thomas said. “It doesn’t seem like the Browns are going to land Kirk Cousins.”
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“I think Kirk is looking for a team like Denver that has a really good defense that in his opinion is like a quarterback away,” Thomas said.
“I think those chances are out the window, to be totally honest with you,” Thomas said. “It doesn’t seem like the Browns are going to land Kirk Cousins.”
Quote:
“I think Kirk is looking for a team like Denver that has a really good defense that in his opinion is like a quarterback away,” Thomas said.
Denver is more than a QB away. They have average RBs. From what I read this past week, Elway has soured on both Sanders and Thomas. Their OL was not good in the games I saw. Defense yes, but Talib is likely gone and their DBs were average overall. They have, last I looked about 25m in cap space, more if they cut/trade Talib, so they can be somewhat active in FA. Regardless, they're more than a QB away.
I think the actual number of teams as a viable destination for Cousins is three. Jets, Denver, and unfortunately us. Jags were never in consideration, IMO and forget the Vikes too.
Unpopular Opinions: Kirk Cousins, Browns perfect for each other
By Adam Rank NFL.com Writer Published: Feb. 20, 2018 at 09:05 a.m. Updated: Feb. 20, 2018 at 03:07 p.m. 0 Likes | 0 Comments Read Discuss
Listen, I don't try to live my life as a contrarian. That's not true -- I kind of do. I spend a lot of time in public houses and taverns, and I have a two-hour commute that allows me to hear a lot of the sports world's most popular opinions. Sometimes, I think it's best to take a look at the other side.
In this space, I'll be articulating a handful of positions that are the opposite of what most people think -- unpopular opinions, if you will -- and explain why, well, my unpopular opinions are right and everyone else is wrong.
UNPOPULAR OPINION: Kirk Cousins should go to the Cleveland Browns.
I know -- I hate telling people what they should do. I don't like when people tell me what to do. I'm going out to Arizona for Spring Training in a few weeks. Any time I bring it up, nearly everybody has a suggestion of something I MUST do or see or eat while I'm out there.
"Oh, you'll be in Tempe? You have to check out this place I've discovered called Portillo's."
Yes, thanks for the tip on your secret spot. Like there wasn't one on Golf Road in Schaumburg (near the mall) where I lived the first four years of my life. I know Portillo's. Back off.
So, I don't want to be That Guy ... but I'm excited for Cousins to get his opportunity to test the free-agent market. How often does a top-15 quarterback in his prime just jump into free agency? (Well, if he does. Don't laugh. The NFL is a copycat league. The Eagles just won a Super Bowl with two starting-caliber quarterbacks on their roster. Maybe Washington wants to follow suit. Unlikely, but you never know in this wacky sport. OK, maybe in this instance, we do know. But I digress.)
It's exciting for Cousins, who undoubtedly will have many options at his disposal. Although one of them won't be a reunion with Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco, as the 49ers just locked up Jimmy Garoppolo on a record-setting deal. I feel for Cousins there. His fallback date for the prom just asked out a quarterback who is younger and hotter. It's like when Zack shows up at the prom in "She's All That" and Laney Boggs is there with Paul Walker.
But, yeah, I'm sure Cousins has this free agency thing handled. He doesn't need anybody else's help.
Dude, he does want help! (And yep -- this is my new thing. I now take everything on the Internet literally. Especially Twitter. Because you people do this to me all the time.)
If Kirk comes knocking on my door, I point him in one direction: Cleveland, Ohio.
I know, I know. It's a yearly tradition to tout the Browns' upside potential in the offseason. My esteemed colleague Dan Hanzus was in earshot when I mentioned this and he nearly sprained his eyes rolling them so hard. I get it. I'm surprised there isn't a Google alert on your phone for Browns fluff.
But Kirk, we're doing Cleveland. It's time to return to your Midwest roots.
I know what most of you readers are thinking ...
Bro, he's going to Denver. Nope.
Yes, the Broncos recently enjoyed success by signing another high-profile free-agent quarterback, making two Super Bowls and winning one. So there is a history. Von Miller has been courting Cousins on social media, often with the same desperation Lloyd Dobler had when he held that boom box over his head outside of Diane Court's house in "Say Anything" years ago. (We just had Valentine's Day weekend -- it wouldn't kill you to see something other than a superhero flick. Look for this on your streaming services.)
But the expectations are too high in the Mile High City. Anything less than Lombardi Trophy hoistage will be deemed an utter failure. John Elway is a top-four all-time QB for me, right behind Tom Brady and Joe Montana and just ahead of Randall Cunningham (don't @ me). That's a lot of pressure. It's one thing to have to answer to a software giant, or a guy who built an empire of big-box retail stores. It's quite another to answer to a guy who wears a gold jacket every August. Plus, Elway ran poor Tim Tebow out of town for having the audacity to win a playoff game. The only QB he's ever loved, it seems, is Brock Osweiler.
Another option for Cousins could be the Vikings, but you don't want that, because Aaron Rodgers is back in Green Bay, and the Bears are building the next great dynasty. And let's say you did do well in Minnesota -- you'd just be a guy replacing another successful guy. Like Jason Patric in "Speed 2." Or Mark Ruffalo taking over as The Hulk. Oh wait, that was an upgrade. No matter -- don't ruin my narrative.
Arizona is intriguing because of David Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald, but you have no idea what that will look like with a new head coach at the helm. And the Jets? Well, they are the Jets. Sorry, Hanzus. You asked for that.
So, it's Cleveland. Joe Thomas feels me.
This isn't a money grab, either. Cleveland boasts a bunch of young talent. And draft picks out the wazoo. (See: six selections in the first 65 draft slots this April.) The offensive line is stout. You have Josh Gordon. This cupboard's anything but bare.
And you saw those celebrations in Philadelphia, right? You win a Super Bowl in Cleveland, and the Browns' parade will make Philly's celebration look like the opening of a Dollar Tree in Parma. You'll be a conquering hero. Half the 2037 graduating class at Roosevelt High in Kent, Ohio, will be named Kirk or Kirkina. The airport ... Well, it probably won't be renamed after you. But you'll have a cool display right here next to Superman. You'll be Kirk Kent, dog. You will be Superman.
This is such an easy call.
Of course, free agency's a two-way street. Player interest must align with team interest. Well ...
UNPOPULAR OPINION: The Cleveland Browns should go all in on Kirk Cousins.
Don't draft a quarterback. Put all the eggs in the Cousins basket in March, then have fun in April.
I know what you want to do, Browns. You really want to sign AJ McCarron and draft Josh Rosen. But please, can you not be the Browns for just, like, a second? Just one time. Make the smart football move here.
Sign the guy who is already a Pro Bowl-caliber quarterback. A guy you know can run an NFL offense. You've bought enough spare parts for that rusted-out beater. Instead of throwing good money after bad, just get a new car. Sure, it's been driven -- that just proves it's reliable.
Hear me out here. You sign Cousins. Then draft Saquon Barkley with the No. 1 pick. I know, clutch my pearls ... A running back first overall?? The dude is siiiiick. I've been waiting to put this guy on my fantasy teams ever since I saw him ruin USC in the Rose Bowl a couple seasons ago. And Daniel Jeremiah has him as his top prospect, if you don't want to take my word for it.
Then use the fourth pick on the best player available. Minkah Fitzpatrick, for instance. Take a run at Allen Robinson -- if he shakes free from Jacksonville -- and Jarvis Landry. Suddenly, you have a well-rounded team ready to take on the AFC North for years to come. And you don't have to worry about the quarterback you drafted becoming just another name on that fabled jersey of failed signal-callers.
But you're going to do the McCarron thing, aren't you? Hot damn it. All I can do is tell you what I think. Oh, and if you're in Portillo's in the near future, please try the Italian beef. You'll love it.
Cap wise the only teams that can afford Cousins are us, the Jets, and Minnesota depending on what they do at QB. Denver, Buffalo, and Arizona all would have to rework their cap space somehow to afford Cousins.
Cap wise the only teams that can afford Cousins are us, the Jets, and Minnesota depending on what they do at QB. Denver, Buffalo, and Arizona all would have to rework their cap space somehow to afford Cousins.
It's not like it would be all that hard for those teams to do.
No it wouldn't but all 3 teams have a bunch of other holes to fill too and they won't be able to do that in Free Agency if they sign Cousins. Denver needs help on the OL, DL and secondary plus where ever they cut people to get the money for Cousins. Buffalo needs a OC, WRs, DL, LBs, plus a CB opposite White. Arizona has huge holes on the OL, they have no WR other then Fitz, and they need help at DL and ILB and a CB opposite Peterson.
Here's a question: Are the Browns smart enough to sign Cousins and Draft Darnold or Rosen?
I've been against signing Cousins mainly because of his record and the likelihood it would prevent us from drafting a QB #1 overall. (The cost to bring him here is prohibitive too, but that's the world we live in.) I do, however, think Cousins is the best QB in the FA market, who will actually hit the market. If we were to sign him to a four year deal and still draft the best QB in the class that would put us in a great situation overall. We could win now, and allow the rookie to sit and learn, and when Cousins contract expires, we'd still have a year left on the rookie deal and would clearly know what we had in him. It also would give us the option of trading Cousins if the rookie began to outperform him at any point over the next four years. This is the one scenario where I would get behind signing the guy. I just don't know if the FO has the smarts or the stones to make that move.
I know folks will jump all over this as a chance to draft Saquon, or trade down, or any myriad of other scenarios, but passing on the best QB in the class would be the Browns thing to do. JMHO
Cleveland Browns offseason roadmap: How would signing Kirk Cousins alter their course?
by Dan Labbe, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The NFL offseason is warming up and it’s about to hit its stride in less than a month. The combine takes place in Indianapolis beginning next week and then the real fun starts when the so-called “legal tampering” period opens on March 12 and the new league year begins on March 14 at 4 p.m.
The Browns are facing, perhaps, the biggest offseason the franchise have ever faced. They have cap space, draft picks and are as equipped as ever to completely change their fortunes.
That’s why I’ve decided to map out two hypothetical offseasons that I would consider a success. In the first hypothetical, the Browns find their quarterback of the future in the draft. You can find that here.
In this version, the opening question is simple: What if the Browns sign Kirk Cousins? That would create a ripple and likely change how the team approaches the quarterback position in the draft. Signing Cousins seems unlikely, but it's at least worth trying on for size.
Of course, a lot of this is easier said than done. The Browns aren’t exactly a prime free agent destination and 31 other teams get to participate in the draft, too. This comes with the full acknowledgement that it is, in essence, fantasy football.
The goal here, however, is to lay out an idea of areas in which the Browns need to invest and to offer an idea of what a successful offseason might look like.
Sign Cousins (Previous: Sign AJ McCarron or one of the Minnesota quarterbacks)
Cousins is going to be expensive, but the Browns can blow him away with the money they have to offer, which would certainly help sell them over other teams that have better reputations and are more set up to win now. That said, signing Cousins changes the math for the Browns, as it would signal that they believe they can start winning quickly and Cousins is the guy who can lead them for the next four to five years at least.
Sign LaMarcus Joyner (Previous: No change)
The Rams could opt to use their franchise tag on Joyner, but if they don’t, Joyner could be the veteran free safety the Browns covet.
At 27 years old, he has a history with defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and has played in Williams’ system. Signing him would allow Jabrill Peppers to move to strong safety, a move that would be welcomed by all parties involved. Peppers struggled with the responsibilities of the position at times last season and always looked more comfortable playing closer to the line, which is how the Browns want to use him.
The Browns should also look at cornerback Trumaine Johnson now that the Rams are set to acquire Marcus Peters from Kansas City.
Find a veteran wide receiver (Previous: No change)
I mentioned Terrelle Pryor here in the other scenario, but he struggled last year with Cousins in Washington. Would that have an impact in taking a flyer on the former Brown who gambled on himself and lost?
The place the Browns should monitor is down south in Jacksonville. Marqise Lee has caught 119 passes the last two seasons combined for 1,553 yards. He’s coming off of a season in which he caught 56 passes for 702 yards.
Another Jaguars receiver, Allen Robinson, is bound for free agency. He’s coming off of a torn ACL, but the Jaguars would be foolish to let him walk.
Assuming that, it makes Allen Hurns an interesting player to watch. The Jaguars could cut him if they keep Robinson and rely more heavily on the emerging Dede Westbrook. Despite having not come close to matching his 1,000-yard season in 2015 the last two years, Football Outsiders actually ranks Hurns ninth in DVOA among receivers and credit him with 586 effective yards, a stat that shows he might have played better than his 39 catches for 484 yards would indicate.
Extend Duke Johnson's contract (Previous: No change)
I thought about removing this based on the next entry, but I don’t think you can have enough weapons and I don’t think an extension here would be that expensive.
With quarterback settled for the next few years with Cousins, Barkley is the kind of super weapon the Browns could use. Cousins needs talent around him and, while taking a running back at No. 1 is always risky, the idea in signing Cousins is to win a lot sooner rather than later. Barkley helps you do that.
Trade the No. 4 pick (Previous: Draft Minkah Fitzpatrick)
Here we go again. Yes, trading Top 5 picks is dangerous. Browns fans know that all too well. The reality here, though, is that the Browns can benefit from the domino effect of signing Cousins and taking Barkley No. 1. There will be a quarterback here and the return on this pick could be big and might not include all that steep of a fall. What if it’s the Jets trying to jump the Broncos? Could the Browns do this deal and still land Minkah Fitzpatrick?
If nothing else, maybe the Bills come calling with their two firsts, though I’d be wary of dropping that far.
Draft Lamar Jackson (Previous: Not included)
The biggest wild card on the first two days of the draft will likely be Jackson. If he’s there on Day 2 in this scenario, I’d take him. Heck, if he’s falling far enough on Day 1, I’d consider using one of those second-round picks to move up and snag him.
He could simultaneously be your quarterback of the future and a weapon for your offense while he’s waiting his turn.
Draft a cornerback in the second round (Previous: Add a young wide receiver in the late second or early third round)
The Browns need to throw resources at their secondary and this is part of the equation. Use one of those second-round picks -- however many you end up with, to find a guy who can cover.
Could the Browns do this deal and still land Minkah Fitzpatrick?
Maybe. Possibly.
Or, and hear me out, the Browns can just take Minkah Fitzpatrick and ensure we've added on of the most incredible talents in this draft with incredible leadership skills the and versatility to benefit our defense in a plethora of ways limited only by imagination?
Browns media is killing me. This isn't complicated. Minkah would be an incredible asset to our defense who could completely transform the secondary. The teams picking at #2 and #3 already have that position addressed. He's all ours.
Just. Take. Him. Dorsey.
I can understand questions at #1. If we get Cousins, who knows what we'll do with the first pick. But the fourth pick is a no brainer, in my opinion.
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Vikings will be "in very heavy" on free agent Kirk Cousins.
RapSheet's report was seconded by colleague Mike Garafolo, hours after NFL.com's Gil Brandt said the same thing. In addition to a win-now team and ample cap room, the Vikings can offer Cousins an indoor playing environment -- where all quarterbacks are historically more productive -- and an exciting young offensive nucleus of Stefon Diggs, Adam Thielen, Kyle Rudolph, and Dalvin Cook.
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Vikings will be "in very heavy" on free agent Kirk Cousins.
RapSheet's report was seconded by colleague Mike Garafolo, hours after NFL.com's Gil Brandt said the same thing. In addition to a win-now team and ample cap room, the Vikings can offer Cousins an indoor playing environment -- where all quarterbacks are historically more productive -- and an exciting young offensive nucleus of Stefon Diggs, Adam Thielen, Kyle Rudolph, and Dalvin Cook.
Related: Vikings
Source: Ian Rapoport on TwitterFeb 26 - 5:05 PM
Throw out three good toys for the shiny new one who has yet to win ten games. Gotta love it. I'll be honestly surprised if they give up on their others guys. Just seems silly. (I'll happily eat my words if Cousins is successful in that division.)
My gut tells me Vikings nab Cousins. And the Broncos get either Keenum or McCarron.
If he proves to choose money over the right fit, I see him picking the Jets. Unless they are, you
And he never even considers us.
As I said, that's what my GUT is telling me.
Butch, out . . .
If that's the case, I sign Bridgewater as long as he checks out health wise, and draft a guy at 1. Why not have a bridge QB who could actually turn out to be very good and is still young enough to be here a while. If he doesn't pan out, you have a top of the 1st round QB to take over. If he does, you trade one down the road and move on.
Yeah, there's no way the best QB in the league (imo) is paid less than Kirk. Unless Rodgers takes less to open up cap to be spent elsewhere but still...
wow! That could be something Cousins going to Vikings all 3 going into FA. Keenum, Bradford n Bridgewater out on the market. Only Bradford I heard linked to the Browns who I think would be perfect.
wow! That could be something Cousins going to Vikings all 3 going into FA. Keenum, Bradford n Bridgewater out on the market. Only Bradford I heard linked to the Browns who I think would be perfect.
Interesting.
Bradford is always hurt... if the goal is to take a vet QB to play until a young, highly drafted QB is ready - then the option and history of Sam Bradford's availability is not going to assist in achieving your goal.
His knees are shot bro, especially his left one. He had what, a bone bruise and then re-aggravated it AGAIN after that last year? And yet another arthroscopic surgery on that knee, or the other knee I can't remember? Even cheaply, unless you want someone who has been in some NFL games just to talk to the rookies as a vet/locker room coach guy that's on the roster, then I'd understand it but still pass. Just me, of course!
The type of offense we would be running would be a terrible thing to grab Keenum.
He would fail. He needs to go on a team that would make a switch to his style of QB play. I don't see Haley switching up his playbook before he even gets it installed.
The type of offense we would be running would be a terrible thing to grab Keenum.
He would fail. He needs to go on a team that would make a switch to his style of QB play. I don't see Haley switching up his playbook before he even gets it installed.
Why?
Roelisberger was not the "Big Ben" of old in Haley's offense. There were a ton of short, quick passes, that kept him from taking the abuse he did earlier in his career when he would consistently try to hold the ball forever.
What do you see in Haley's offense that Keenum could not do?
Depending on how this whole Minnesota QB thing shakes out, I could definitely be convinced to take a shot on Bridgewater. He's the one that got away in that draft, imo.
My reasoning is this. Keenum is a flash in the pan, and that flash was last season. Let another team chase last year's performance. Bradford is always injured. Like, literally... constantly injured. Bridgewater has the injury risk, but there's still hope that what he's gone through was just a fluke. Once he really heals up, he might be good to go after that. Depending on what his demand is, it might be a savvy move to grab him on the cheap.
Depending on how this whole Minnesota QB thing shakes out, I could definitely be convinced to take a shot on Bridgewater. He's the one that got away in that draft, imo.
My reasoning is this. Keenum is a flash in the pan, and that flash was last season. Let another team chase last year's performance. Bradford is always injured. Like, literally... constantly injured. Bridgewater has the injury risk, but there's still hope that what he's gone through was just a fluke. Once he really heals up, he might be good to go after that. Depending on what his demand is, it might be a savvy move to grab him on the cheap.
Not sure Keenum is a flash in the pan. I never cared for him before, but it sounds like the VRT has helped his game and if it continues to help, it could be the wave of the future for QBs. 2 years ago I wouldn't have said this, but I think Keenum is the best of the lot and will have some success in the future.
I wouldn't mind signing Keenum and drafting Mayfield. Makes a lot of sense.
The type of offense we would be running would be a terrible thing to grab Keenum.
He would fail. He needs to go on a team that would make a switch to his style of QB play. I don't see Haley switching up his playbook before he even gets it installed.
Why?
Roelisberger was not the "Big Ben" of old in Haley's offense. There were a ton of short, quick passes, that kept him from taking the abuse he did earlier in his career when he would consistently try to hold the ball forever.
What do you see in Haley's offense that Keenum could not do?
I agree that they went with shorter quick strike passes to save Big Ben from the beatings.
I don't see the fit becasue they also dialed up the home run ball a lot. Brown had a ton of catches over 20 yards. I believe about 1/3 of his catches were deep passes and Ju Ju had about 20% of his catches over 20 yards. They both averaged over 15 yards a catch. Bell really brought down the average too. He had 7.7 catch average and with around 80 catches was # 2 in receptions.
I just don't see Keenum being that guy to deliver the deep pass with enough accuracy. He doesn't have the arm for it. It's one of his limitations.
The type of offense we would be running would be a terrible thing to grab Keenum.
He would fail. He needs to go on a team that would make a switch to his style of QB play. I don't see Haley switching up his playbook before he even gets it installed.
What kind of offense are we running? Haley has said he doesn't have a system. He molds it to the players.
Both Hue and Haley run a down field passing offense. Haley may mold/adjust his offense to the player's skills but he's not likely going to change from a down field offense to a West Coast offense just because he's saddled with a temporary QB having those skills.
You don't want to mold it to fit your bridge QB getting the whole offensive team accustomed to it only to have to mold/adjust again for your #1 pick. And you dang sure don't want to have to pick a QB in the draft to match skill sets with the bridge vet. Why make drastic changes in your philosophy to suit a guy who will be here only a short time.
You know me, I know nothing. But that's some of my thoughts on the issue.
Cleveland boasts a bunch of young talent. And draft picks out the wazoo. (See: six selections in the first 65 draft slots this April.) The offensive line is stout. You have Josh Gordon. This cupboard's anything but bare.
In so many forms and fashions, this sentiment always keeps coming up. Huh.
Confession time...I am in love with Sam Darnold. I fell in love with him in the '17 Rose Bowl. Penn State was the favorite, and had a commanding lead going into the 4th, but Sam put the team on his back and carried them to victory. I had liked him before, fascinated by how he took over a struggling USC team and almost single-handedly made them a champion. But that game clinched it for me.
I was sad that the Browns had picked the wrong year to have the #1 overall pick. But as bad luck would have it, they pulled off the improbable and scored the #1 pick 2 years in a row. Now they have the chance to take Darnold. I was in heaven, we got the best player in the '17 draft and still get to draft Sam in '18.
I have not liked the idea of signing Cousins. Doing so means we'll pass on my guy. Yeah he's good, but Darnold's going to be great, I know it! I've argued against Cousins, convinced it's the road to mediocrity. We have that golden opportunity to draft the next great QB.
But Cousins is growing on me. Not so much because I like Cousins or have lost interest in Darnold, but because it opens the door for drafting both Barkley and Fitzpatrick. Both those guys are going to be studs. Having both on the team along with Cousins, I GRUDGINGLY admit would be better than having Darnold and just one of them.
I hate myself already, but Cousins signing with the Browns is the best scenario...as long as we draft BOTH Barkley and Fitzpatrick.
Confession time...I am in love with Sam Darnold. I fell in love with him in the '17 Rose Bowl. Penn State was the favorite, and had a commanding lead going into the 4th, but Sam put the team on his back and carried them to victory. I had liked him before, fascinated by how he took over a struggling USC team and almost single-handedly made them a champion. But that game clinched it for me.
I was sad that the Browns had picked the wrong year to have the #1 overall pick. But as bad luck would have it, they pulled off the improbable and scored the #1 pick 2 years in a row. Now they have the chance to take Darnold. I was in heaven, we got the best player in the '17 draft and still get to draft Sam in '18.
I have not liked the idea of signing Cousins. Doing so means we'll pass on my guy. Yeah he's good, but Darnold's going to be great, I know it! I've argued against Cousins, convinced it's the road to mediocrity. We have that golden opportunity to draft the next great QB.
But Cousins is growing on me. Not so much because I like Cousins or have lost interest in Darnold, but because it opens the door for drafting both Barkley and Fitzpatrick. Both those guys are going to be studs. Having both on the team along with Cousins, I GRUDGINGLY admit would be better than having Darnold and just one of them.
I hate myself already, but Cousins signing with the Browns is the best scenario...as long as we draft BOTH Barkley and Fitzpatrick.
I was interested in Darnold and was looking forward to see him in the Cotton Bowl, to see him play against a quality Defense. I was not impressed. The Browns need quality improvement in many areas, not just at QB. To me, that means utilizing Free Agents as well as the draft. To improve at QB, RB, FS, CB, WR and add depth, the question is .. what are the best options to improve the team.
To me, the best option is to sign Cousins, draft Barkley and Fitzpatrick at 1 and 4, Then draft Brown ( WR Notre Dame ) and either Oliver or Hill at CB in the second round. Any other additions later in the draft or FA is icing on the cake.
Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports the Broncos are prepared to go "all-in" on free agent Kirk Cousins.
Robinson reports the Broncos have "examined scenarios" to clear up to $50 million in cap space this offseason. The Vikings have looked like the early favorites to land the market's top player, but the Broncos and Jets appear prepared to play ball. Cousins, at least temporarily, seems poised to become the highest-paid player in the league.
Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports the Broncos are prepared to go "all-in" on free agent Kirk Cousins.
Robinson reports the Broncos have "examined scenarios" to clear up to $50 million in cap space this offseason. The Vikings have looked like the early favorites to land the market's top player, but the Broncos and Jets appear prepared to play ball. Cousins, at least temporarily, seems poised to become the highest-paid player in the league.
Related: Broncos
Source: Yahoo SportsMar 1 - 11:00 PM
If they clear 50 mil in cap space .. they lose a portion of their team as well. No one can match us, if we want him and money is his concern. We already have more than 100 mil in cap space. I do not think Elway will cripple his team when he has the 5th pick in the draft.
I think we were never in the Cousins race.....he was using the Browns to potentially raise the price. I would almost guarantee the Jets have taken that role, and they have no realistic shot at signing him. I don't know who has or can generate the most cap space out of the Broncos, Vikings, or Cardinals, but that is the team that will sign him imo.
were you joking Peen? Fire him. We are committing to a young drafted QB not a QB that will cost us 30 mil+ I get it. We will give AJ a shot. Fire him? Come on man!
With Cousins .. we can also get Barkley AND Fitzpatrick. We can have upgrades everywhere. Without Cousins, we spend a draft pick on a rookie that has proven nothing. One we do not know if he get the reads and survive in the NFL. We know Cousins can. He's done it,plus we get upgrades in other paces of need as well.
Back to reality. I really don't think Cousins is going to sign here. I don't think it matters whether or not the Browns want him. If he has options like Denver and Minni, I just don't see him risking his career by signing in Cleveland. Hell, we have fans talking about firing the new GM before he has even made a draft pick or signed a FA. LOL......incredible!
If it's AJ, then yeah, fire him and the idiot coach that thinks he's an upgrade.
Based on what I'm reading, it doesn't sound as if the Browns are considered a front runner in the Cousins sweepstakes.
What so many seem to forget, it's not always the highest/best offer that convinces a free agent to sign with a team. Not every free agent looks at the Browns as their best fit.
This talk of firing people because a player doesn't sign with the Browns..that is pure unrealistic rational by those suggesting such a thing.
I would be surprised if Cousins has Cleveland as his top choice for future employment.
I'm not about to say the Browns do not have a chance, but the odds are slim, imo.
An alternative explanation for our apparent lack of interest in Cousins is that Dorsey is going to go for the shock and awe approach. He can't sign yet, so why give him time to think about the negatives/have other teams try to talk him out of it. Hit him with the dollar signs when he can actually put pen to paper.
Bridgwater, Bradford or McCarron as bridge QBs could open the door to waiting on someone like Rudolph or even Mike White. I'm not advocating that by the way but I think most agree we need some sort of veteran presence as a bridge. Bridgwater or Bradford may even pan out but their injury history forces me to simply consider them as placeholders. Kizer would also benefit.
With that, if we go QB just pick whoever we think is best at #1. The #4 pick is a bonus and we can mess around with that if needed. We could trade down 6-8 spots and still pick up James or Jackson and then move back into the first to pick up the BPA, hopefully a receiver or someone like Trumaine Edmunds. We have so many options, if we walk away with just 3 elite blue chip talents including QB, we can all send Sashi a thank you card in the post. I'd be happy waiting on someone like Guice at the top of the 2nd round. I think this is a deep RB draft and although Barkley looks the part, I have too many visions (irony ) of Trent Richardson but I will admit I have not watched much of him at all.
There's TWO QB'S in this draft that are far and away more talented than Cousins, and a helluva lot YOUNGER.
THAT'S why I want NOTHING to do with Cousins and the BS Contract he's going to get.
Grasp this thought------
Kirk Cousins---HIGHEST paid QB in the NFL.
That's just CRAZY thinking.
Now I'll go PUKE.
Don't you see what's going on here? They're already setting up scenarios to call for firing Dorsey. It's been that way from day one. They're butt hurt that Sashi was fired and looking for any excuse to call for Dorseys job.
It's only obvious if you look at the posters attatched to it.
are you suggesting AJ would not be an improvement on kizer?
That is a pretty wild idea. And the wor fired? Put me on the idiot list... But I got a suggestion for you.
We had a guy walking the streets talking to himself saying all others were crazy...hmmm maybe you are being that guy calling all others idiots...lol
In what way is AJ an upgrade over Kizer? Please be specific because I can't think of anything other than he has had more years of riding a bench. Kizer has played more games than AJ in the NFL and doesn't have the noodle arm that AJ has either. I can't see any benefit at all to having a QB whose only benefit is that he has watched NFL film for longer. I would rather just let Kizer play a second year in a row than to have a bum like AJ come in.
U know QB’s .. you’ve proven it ... how u can’t see how DIFFERENT and BETTER McCarron is than our boy ... it makes me wonder why ....
For starters McCarron is about 9 million ti,es more accurate than Kizer ... McCarron also has a history in college of taking care of the ball and being very football smart .... Kizer ... ya .. not so much ...
Come on dude ... you dont like McCaron and/or have questions about him ... i get that ... but to say u dont see how hes better than our boy .... come on man ... thats footballs version of Trump Derangement Syndrome ...
J/C...I think the Vikings landing him triggers a chain reaction considering the QBs they have and would likely become available. Bridgewater and Bradford would surely command interest?
The point of bringing in a veteran QB is to bring in someone who has more experience and can improve the team. AJ has less playing time than Kizer, a lot less. So what exactly is he supposed to have to share? How to warm the bench? AJ doesn't do anything at all to improve our QB room. Also, his arm is way too weak to run a vertical passing game which means our WRs won't be learning how to play in the system we want to run but some altered version of it that won't get them ready for whoever we draft.
I think Kizer will improve a great deal this offseason and I would prefer to see if he did or not vs signing someone like AJ. It just doesn't make ANY sense to bring AJ here.
J/C...I think the Vikings landing him triggers a chain reaction considering the QBs they have and would likely become available. Bridgewater and Bradford would surely command interest?
You never know .. they both had a lot of success in Minnesota, but got injured. If the Vikings don't want to give them another chance, with their success there, not sure others will either.
If Cousins is all about the money but has marked Cleveland off the list, our FO should shoot a ridiculous fully guaranteed 5 year deal his way. He either comes calling or uses that to make another team pay through the nose. I'm happy either way.
That may be. I wouldn't allow that to keep me from trying.
We need to have a contract drawn and ready to send to his agent the minute the window opens.
If we don't do that, Dorsey isn't worth much in my book unless he comes right out and says Cousins isn't good enough, or is to old for our needs, or more expensive then we want to spend. There has to be a reason why we wouldn't try, even if Cousins agent has told us not to bother.
If we send a good offer and are turned down, there is nothing we can do about that.
I’m still mad at Sashi for not picking up the phone and calling the Pats about JG on Monday even though he called on Friday and was appearanlty told hes not available now and won’t be ... with the trade deadline approaching ... I’D OF CHECKED IN TUESDAY MORNING ALSO ,...
Don’t try ... those two words parsed together are NOT IN MY VOCABULARY ... my theory ...
0.000000000001 has a shot ..... 0.0000000000000 does not have a shot ...
Minni, Denver, and the Jets do not have the first pick in the NFL draft. The Browns do.
I think the Browns should pass on Cousins if they have determined that one of the QBs in this draft is their long-term franchise qb. The Browns may never be in a position to have the #1 overall pick again. This is a rare opportunity to solve the qb position for a long, long time.
I keep seeing people say that. Did I miss something? Has Dorsey come out and said we weren't interested in Cousins?
No but Joe Thomas did say that and he is keeping close tabs on that and has better info than us.
Also some top analysts on the subject have stated we are not in the picture and by choice not because Cousins decision.
So Peen if you need it from Dorsey's mouth than No.
But Ive done my homework n gotten use to my phone and it me...as soon as I click to come here they have an article about the Browns. I dont have the phone skills to copy n paste so I do not share. But I am educated enough to say we do not wish to pursue and commit to Cousins...again why I think #1 will be QB as that is who we are committing long term.
Minni, Denver, and the Jets do not have the first pick in the NFL draft. The Browns do.
I think the Browns should pass on Cousins if they have determined that one of the QBs in this draft is their long-term franchise qb. The Browns may never be in a position to have the #1 overall pick again. This is a rare opportunity to solve the qb position for a long, long time.
And that's the entire picture. IF you have a target at #1 who you feel will be your future franchise QB for years to come, you draft that QB. That's how teams traditionally build a franchise. Now people will point out drew Brees and Alex smith. But those are the exceptions, not the rule.
Acting as though this FO would be wrong to address the QB position the same way almost the entire NFL does it as some big mistake are losing sight of reality.
If Cousins is all about the money but has marked Cleveland off the list, our FO should shoot a ridiculous fully guaranteed 5 year deal his way. He either comes calling or uses that to make another team pay through the nose. I'm happy either way.
If Cousins is all about the money but has marked Cleveland off the list, our FO should shoot a ridiculous fully guaranteed 5 year deal his way. He either comes calling or uses that to make another team pay through the nose. I'm happy either way.
If Cousins is all about the money but has marked Cleveland off the list, our FO should shoot a ridiculous fully guaranteed 5 year deal his way. He either comes calling or uses that to make another team pay through the nose. I'm happy either way.
... 
Throw out three good toys for the shiny new one who has yet to win ten games. Gotta love it. I'll be honestly surprised if they give up on their others guys. Just seems silly. (I'll happily eat my words if Cousins is successful in that division.) 
