DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft 2018 Draft QB Film Breakdown

PFF loves Mayfield.

So does devicedawg.

No each team aquires its own information. It's very hard to find consistent statistics across major stat providers. NFL.com, espn, cbs, pff, etc don't have universal stat information even on things like completion percentage. I always find it aggravating doing analytics and having different results depending on which sites I gather info from.

pff is not any better than nfl.com they just have their own flavor of stat tracking. I am not saying they do a bad job at it but everything should be taken with a grain of salt.

on the 2.5 let me rephrase that. To me its the ideal time a QB should hold the ball. At 3 seconds and longer things start to really break down in protection. Sure sometimes a pass takes longer due to many issues but I want to draft a QB who can process and get rid of the ball at that speed because it's a good sign they will adjust well to nfl game speed. It's not the end all but its a darn good sign.

Naked eye told me that Ferguson has one fast release .

I couldn't disagree more.
I don't consider it a matter of opinion either.

PFF is unquestionably better then nfl.com.
Hearing you say that makes me believe you don't u understand what they do.

Your post is very puzzling to me. On one hand you dismiss their metrics and say they should be taken with a grain of salt but then turn around and say that their time to throw metric can be used to assess how an individual QB processes information.

To each his own......strikes me as bit hypocritical though.

Just for reference some of the QBs that take longer your 2.5 benchmark:
Tom Brady
Matt Ryan
Carson Wentz
Russell Wilson
Alex Smith
Jimmy Garappolo
Aaron Rodgers
Tyrod Taylor
Marcus Mariota
Matt Stafford
Jamies Winston
Dak Prescott
Blake Bortles
Jared Goff
Kirk Cousins
Mitch Trubisky
Cam Newton
Deshaun Watson
Jacoby Brissett
Nick Foles

Film breakdown, Mayfield slow out of blocks, cops make clean takedown....his best verbal...Are you kidding me? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezjlgpg-9iw How many NFL QBs run from cops cuz they're drunk...name one who grabs his crotch who represents an NFL team/ city. I'd pass for sure, judgement....GO Browns!!!!

I believe Lauletta will be drafted day 2.

I agree. He impressed at the Senior Bowl, and if he does well at the combine, I see him going as early as round 2.

Hey guys, I am new here. I apologize if this has been discussed a lot here, but I was curious, do ya'll think the Browns could pass on taking a QB in the first round?

I think all of these QBs have some question marks. While I definitely think some of them will be good, none of them seem to be a sure thing. With the Browns history, can they afford to take that chance at #1 overall, or maybe #4 overall?

I was just wondering, what do ya'll think the possibility is that the Browns sign a guy like Cousins, or if that fails, try to find a stop gap QB like McCarron. If they take that route, they can draft Barkley and Fitzpatrick, while taking a bit more time to develop Kizer. If in a year, its still not looking promising, then target a QB again next year.

Do ya'll view that as a possibility or do you think the Browns are definitely going to get their guy this year in the draft?

Thanks!

Welcome aboard!!!!!

Thanks man!

Full disclosure though, I'm not actually a Browns fan, but I would like to see them do good. I think ya'll have a very bright future with last years draft class, plus this years coming up. Ya'll definitely seem to be heading in the right direction, which is great.

Welcome 8Taylor2. The answer to your question is that all of the permeations and possibilities have been dissected and discussed all over the board. In this forum there are threads (sometimes multiple threads) for each of the draft possibilities, and the the "Pure Football" forum there are multiple threads about the FA and trade possibilities.

But possibly the best place to get a quick feel of the board is 2 threads; "User Name record of Number 1 pick wish ?" in this forum has a running ballot for what most of the regular posters want to do with the first pick; and in the Pure Football forum; "What Is Your plan?" is a good thread to read what everyone's overall plan for FA and the draft would be.

It's exactly because of our history with Qb's that we hav to take a Qb with the #1 or #4 pick.

Except for Couch we haven't taken a Qb in the top half of the 1st round.
Our failed selections have been at #22 (Quinn, Weeden and Manziel) in the 1st round or we hoped to luck into someone in the later rounds. We haven't taken the first Qb in a draft either (again except for Couch).

We now have the opportunity to get out Qb of choice in a talented Qb draft.
We have guys who have shown that they know how to talent evaluate - for the 1st time since the return.
If we pass on Qb this year, who knows when we will have this kind of opportunity again.

In my mind we should take a Qb #1 overall, but if not we need to take one at #4.

Thank you! I actually did read the "Number 1 pick wish" thread a little bit, but a lot of that seemed to indicate the Browns would take a QB at #4 if not at #1. At least from what I saw.

That definitely makes some sense.

Thanks for the opinions!

One reason I was thinking this is with the reports the Browns tried to trade for Alex Smith, but that obviously would have been more of a stop gap guy. If they were trying to get Smith, would they have still gone QB?

We could have only hoped.

Haha yea, I definitely thought that would have been a weird move for ya'll.

It was a weird move for the Redskins too, but yea.

I think if you read the other thread, and read the 2-3 'Cousins' threads, you'll see that many, if not most, on the board agree that our best course would be to sign Cousins. The problem with that plan is that Cousins has to agree, and the odds seem to be against that.

(for the record, I'm all in on drafting Darnold or Rosen with a preference for Darnold.)

Welcome to the board!

Full disclosure I visited this board just like you are looking for information (fantasy football and podcast show) and keeping track of Robert Griffin. I ended up sticking around.

You can probably find the answers you're looking for in the other threads like other posters have said. My ideal would be to sign Nick Foles, but he's not even available yet. Personally if I was drafting for the Browns I would listen to offers for both pick #1 and #4. I think the QBs in the class are all about the same and none jumps out to me as a must have at pick #1.

But, that's what I would do...I think they'll take Darnold at #1 though and keep their fingers crossed that Saquan makes it back to them at #4.

Anyhow....this thread, or at least the pie in the sky hope for this thread, was to be purely a film based discussion of the 2018 QB draft prospects. Check out some of the earlier posts in this thread if you have time.

If you stick around would be interested in any film based takes you have on the QBs.

Cheers!

I figured this could go here, since it is mostly about the QBs.

Will Hue Jackson have more say in the QBs and other questions for the Browns at the 2018 NFL Combine | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/02/will_hue_jackson_have_more_say.html#incart_m-rpt-1


Will Hue Jackson have more say in the QBs and other combine questions

The Browns head to Indianapolis for the 2018 NFL Scouting Combine this week with a new general manager in John Dorsey, a new offensive coordinator in Todd Haley and a new personnel consultant in Scot McCloughan.

With six picks in the first 65 of the draft — including No. 1 and No. 4 overall — it’s like the Browns’ Super Bowl again.
For the fifth time in the last seven years, the Browns head into the draft with two first-round picks, and for the sixth time, they have at least one top-10 pick. They also have the No. 1 pick for the second straight year, and a chance to transform the franchise with a star player.

This year, it’s all about the quarterbacks, with top prospects such as USC’s Sam Darnold, UCLA’s Josh Rosen, Wyoming’s Josh Allen and Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield headlining the field and in the mix for the Browns at No. 1.

The Browns will also consider elite prospects such as Penn State running back Saquon Barkley, North Carolina State edge-rusher Bradley Chubb, and Alabama defensive back Minkah Fitzpatrick, most likely with their No. 4 pick.


1. Will Dorsey draft the QB that Jackson wants?
In his two seasons with Sashi Brown, Jackson didn’t have much say in who the Browns acquired or drafted at quarterback. Brown traded away the No. 2 overall pick in 2016 despite the fact Brown liked Carson Wentz over Jared Goff in that draft. Brown also drafted Cody Kessler in the third round with almost no input from Jackson or then top offensive assistant Pep Hamilton.

Last offseason, Jackson pushed hard for Jimmy Garoppolo and AJ McCarron to no avail. When the Browns lost Garoppolo to the 49ers at the trade deadline, Jackson appealed to Jimmy Haslam to trade for McCarron, and Brown didn’t execute the trade in time. In the 2017 draft, some members of the front office wanted Mitch Trubisky over Myles Garrett at No. 1, and they ultimately agreed on DeShone Kizer at No. 52 after trading away from Deshaun Watson at No 12.

This year, the Browns must agree on a veteran QB to likely start right away, and reach a consensus on one of the rookies, from the pool of Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, and depending on how things go in free agency, Lamar Jackson and Mason Rudolph.
All signs point to Jackson, who will take the combine podium Wednesday at 9 a.m., having a much bigger voice in his QB this season.

2. How will Dorsey run this show?
Dorsey, who has final say over all roster decisions, has surrounded himself with a strong supporting cast in assistant GM Eliot Wolf, Vice President of Player Personnel Alonzo Highsmith, and McCloughan. He also still has Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta and Vice President of Player Personnel Andrew Berry from Sashi Brown’s staff. The Browns have significantly upgraded their scouting ability, and are shifting away from the analytics-based approach.

Questions for Dorsey include:
How much will he take into account what the coaches need to run their schemes?

How much will he rely on McCloughan, who could join the team long-term if this draft goes well?

If Dorsey and his group like a quarterback and Jackson likes another, who wins? McCloughan is already on record as saying he loves Mayfield, and Dorsey has watched most of his games and likes him. But enough to draft him No. 1? Jackson, on the other hand, doesn’t generally like 6-foot QBs.
Would Dorsey be willing to trade the No. 4 pick if they get their QB at No. 1?

With an overhauled coaching staff and front office, it will take some time for this crew to figure out how to best work together.

3. Sam Darnold's turnovers
If the draft were tomorrow, Darnold would have a good chance to be taken No. 1 by the Browns, but it’s still fairly early in the process, and the Browns must determine why Darnold turned the ball over so much at USC.

In two seasons as a starter, the 20-year-old threw 22 interceptions and lost 14 of his 21 fumbles in 27 games — more than one an outing. Three of those turnovers came against Ohio State in the Cotton Bowl, on a pick-six and two lost fumbles.

“The biggest 'if' for me with Darnold is the turnovers,” NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock told 92.3 The Fan last week. “He’s got more fumbles than any other quarterback I’ve seen in recent history, and that, by the way, goes back to high school. He fumbled the ball a bunch in high school, and it continued at USC.

“Some of that you can cure. The fumbles in the pocket, the strip sacks, those kind of things, he’s got a tendency to keep his off hand, his left hand, off the ball. It needs to be on the ball. You can learn how to do that in an NFL pocket, however, he’s a bit of a gunslinger. He makes some bad decisions. He makes some bad throws.”

Darnold’s hand measurement at the Combine will be key, with the threshold for most teams somewhere around 9.1 or 9.2 inches. He checks off a lot of boxes, but also started only two seasons at USC, which makes the projection tough.

4. Josh Rosen's issues
When it comes to the Browns, Rosen must address a report by ESPN’s Adam Schefter in December that he’d prefer to play for the Giants over the Browns. To this point, Rosen has done nothing to dispel that report. If the Browns have a comfort level that he’d be "all-in" here, he’ll remain in the mix for the No. 1 pick. But the Browns must also have a comfort level that he can move well enough to escape pressure and be scheme-versatile.

He also has some injury concerns, including multiple concussions and a shoulder injury. But some believe he’s the prototypical NFL QB.

“Nobody throws a prettier ball,” Mayock said. “Nobody is a more natural thrower in this class or maybe the last five classes than Josh Rosen. He’s always on balance. He’s accurate at all three levels, but I would take your point about injuries, and I’d take it one step forward.

“When you complement that with the fact that he’s less athletic than I thought he was, he struggles getting out of trouble in the pocket. When you combine the two, his lack of escapability and his propensity for injuries and his slight frame, I’m not sure he can survive an NFL pocket over a 16-game season for any extended length.”

The Browns will conduct private workouts with all of the top QBs over the next month or so, attend their pro days, and bring them to the Browns facility for visits. By then, they’ll know which one is their No. 1.

5. Josh Allen's accuracy
At 6-5, 233, the Wyoming product passes the eyeball test. He’s also a high-character player with exceptional arm talent. But his 56.2 completion percentage has NFL scouts and coaches on red alert. If Allen performs well in Indianapolis, and also wows the Browns at his private workout and Pro Day, he might be able to sway them. But many coaches believe inaccuracy follows a quarterback throughout his career, and won’t touch one with that completion percentage.

ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr., however, has Allen going to the Browns at No. 1.

"He's got the best arm of anyone in this draft,'' Kiper said on his pre-NFL Scouting Combine conference call Wednesday. "He has tremendous size, he has tremendous athleticism for a big man. You saw his mobility. You go back to that Iowa game earlier in the year. You go look at the Senior Bowl, in that first half, that second quarter, his mobility there. He's just got all the physical traits you want. Athletic prowess, he's got the will to learn, he's got great competitive desire on the football field, (Wyoming coach) Craig Bohl raves about him.''


6. Baker Mayfield's height and character
McCloughan said before the Browns hired him that Mayfield would be his man if he needed a QB, and that he reminds him Brett Favre in the gamer department.

Dorsey has also said that Mayfield’s height — a shade over 6-0 — wouldn’t be a dealbreaker.

But the Browns will have to get comfortable with his size and character concerns if they’re to reach a consensus on the Heisman Trophy winner. As for the height, he measured 6-foot-3/8 at the Senior Bowl. Will it be the same at the combine? The two successful QBs in the NFL shorter than 6-1 — Drew Brees and Russell Wilson — both have exceptionally large hands at 10.25 inches. Mayfield’s measured 9 1/2 inches at the Senior Bowl.

As for the character issue, he’s out to shed the Johnny Manziel comparisons, but at least in the minds of some evaluators, he has a ways to go in this regard. He’s been arrested for disorderly conduct and fleeing the arrest, taunted the Kansas sidelines by grabbing his crotch, and planted a flag on the Block O at Ohio State after beating the Buckeyes. Dorsey seems to like his moxie, but most agree that maturity is a big issue.

“Some teams are going to say it’s not a problem. Other teams are going to say it is a problem,’’ said Mayock. “I struggle a little bit with it because I want your quarterback to be that guy that’s never going to be in trouble. He’s going to work his tail off and he’s going to be your ‘Alpha Dog’ in the locker room, and right now, with all the stuff surrounding him, it gives me some agita, I don’t think agita equals the first pick or the fourth pick for me.”

7. Do the Browns view Barkley as a top five pick?

Would the Browns draft Barkley with their No. 1 or their top No. 4 overall picks? It’s doubtful they’d use their No. 1 pick on the Penn State back, but would they take him at No. 4?

If they determine he’s in the mold of an Ezekiel Elliott, Todd Gurley or Leonard Fournette — all recent top-10 picks — they’ll likely strongly consider it. But they must decide if they need to spent a top-five pick on a back or if they can get a game changer in the second or third round. At 5-11, 229, Barkley catches as well as he runs. But he must prove to the Browns he’s a special, dynamic runner to be picked that high.

"If you think a running back is a top-five or a top-10 talent, and you're willing to commit your offense philosophically to 20 to 25 touches a game, then draft him,’’ Mayock said. “And look at recent history, whether it's (Elliott) in Dallas, Gurley in LA, Fournette (in Jacksonville) this past year, all three of those guys were top-10 picks, all three teams committed to them and they've been phenomenal.

"This kid at 230 pounds is as good as any of them if not the best, and he's totally clean off the field. He's explosive, he's quick, he's got burst, acceleration, he can catch the football, he can pass protect. He can be a three-down back in this league for a long time.''

Darnold vs Texas 2017

THIS right here is my problem with Rosen. Mayock NAILS it. And I'm not sure if ANY of these things are correctable.

"When you complement that with the fact that he’s less athletic than I thought he was, he struggles getting out of trouble in the pocket. When you combine the two, his lack of escapability and his propensity for injuries and his slight frame, I’m not sure he can survive an NFL pocket over a 16-game season for any extended length.”

Ronnie Jones II is going to be a STUD in the NFL.

Looked pretty damn good to me. USC O-line sucks, by the way. 6 drops that i counted, 1 resulting in a pick 6. 1 other horrible interception. Some very impressive throws on the money as well.

After watching that video one of the links was to Josh Allen vs Iowa.
Holy cow, Allen is frick'n Derek Anderson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pqRs8Z8eGA

I have a question for you? Did you watch the USC/UCLA game video I provided? Did you not hear Fowler and Herbstreit talk about how he bought time in the pocket? Did you not see him avoid rushers w/subtle moves in the pocket so he could get the pass off?

Some of you guys act like a guy has to run around like a chicken w/head cut off when all that is really needed is pocket presence and moves that keep you in the pocket so you can deliver the ball on time.

Look KWhip, I don't care if you don't like Rosen. I just think you really haven't watched him because it is pretty obvious to anyone w/a clue that he does indeed buy time in the pocket w/movement. I am NOT saying he is scrambling all over out of the pocket. I am talking about movement that buys him an extra second as he avoids the rusher and he delivers the ball to his receiver.

Watch the damn video if you haven't watched it yet. It's as clear as day to see.

KWhip, here is a quote from Rosen's head coach, Jim Mora:



Full article here: https://www.ocregister.com/2015/12/24/uc...-his-fast-feet/

Want another one?



https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/dynasty/dynasty-scouting-report-josh-rosen-ucla

Here is one more for you, KWhip:



https://www.ganggreennation.com/2018/1/1...s-new-york-jets

Let me know if you need more.

Oh, what the heck. Here is one more. It's from Greg Cosell, perhaps the brightest mind out there in his field:



http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-darnold-rosen-nfl-20170827-story.html

He can manipulate the pocket well, but there is still some small concern with me in his ability to deal with free rushers. He will stand in there and deliver, but he hasn't always gotten back up. When there aren't open receivers, he can hold the ball too long and take extra hits instead of throwing it away. Having free rushers as well as not having open receivers are things he'd probably see here often enough to be a concern worth considering.

That's a different argument. He does stand in there and take shots. Some might see that as a positive. Others may not. However, I was specifically addressing a couple of posters trying to say he can't move in the pocket. That is "false."

I don’t know exactly what Mayock was trying to articulate there but the way I took it was that what Rosen does struggle with is when he has to escape the pocket he has a much harder time then when he can just slide away from pressure within the pocket. I personally think Rosen does well when he moves around in the pocket. Can he run away from pressure? Probably not. If Dorsey and company want a true pocket QB who’s gonna live and die in the pocket then Rosen is that guy. If they want someone who can break the pocket and scramble ala a Rogers type then maybe Rosen isn’t their guy. We’ll have to wait to see what they like better.

Whoops* trying to link a post

Grimm and dean,

I'm gonna quote myself here, lol, but here's part of my observations and comment from the Rosen's USC every throw cut-up that i think fit this current conversation:



link to post:
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1395454/edromeo#Post1395454


So i noticed some of the same things you guys mention and Mayock mentioned.*





Rosen's escapability and playmaking (scrambling) doesn't compare to some of the other 1st round QB prospects in this class.

*If you guys want to discuss some of these types of play from the USC game I charted them by time stamp and category...I would be happy to post them as gifs

cfrs posted this today in the new Josh Rosen thread. There are some negatives and you can read the entire article in that particular thread. I just posted the above comment because it addresses the question of whether Rosen can move w/in the pocket. Lot's of people seeing him being good in this area, including his head coach and NFL scouts.

Are they all wrong?

I think people just mean different things when they talk about evading the rush.

If he is a "great pocket QB" there will never be a free rusher, he will have them recognized and all rushers will be expected... Actually he will be able to exploit it...

If he can't, then you have big problems,because you end up with a statue with problems reading the game...

That's what makes or breaks pocket passers, and that's why they are so hard to find...

I'm guessing there might be misunderstanding here....and I could be wrong but I don't think Grimm is referring only to unblocked/unaccounted for rushers owhen he said 'free rushers'.

There are times when an OL is gonna get beat and a rusher will come free closing in on the QB. That's not the QBs fault.

But its a bonus skill when a QB can make those free rusher miss or escape from the pocket and occasionally turn what could be a driving killing sack or incompletion into a positive play. That's a pretty good skill to have and when it comes to this area Rosen from what I've seen on tape isn't on par with the other top prospects.