DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Rosen

I want to ask a question and I get that it will be met w/skeptical eyes. I'll even preface the question w/a comment.

I get why fans on a message board get tied into certain QBs and do their best to champion their guy and diss the other dudes.

However, what I don't get is how so many media guys that know the game are placing Rosen so low on their mocks and qb rankings? That boggles my mind.

I heard some guys on the NFL Network today say that Darnold is the "most polished pocket passer in the draft." What?

I heard Stephan A Smith and others say Mayfield is the most accurate QB. What?

This is so reminding me of the Jimmy G debate we had last year. People undervalue mechanics, accuracy, quick release, and reading coverages and go ga-ga over athleticism and how far a guy can throw the ball.

There's way more to qb play than most people consider.

I’ve wondered the same thing. Even when you look at most mocks. If they have the Giants taking a QB it’s always Rosen. It doesn’t matter who they have going #1 if a QB goes 2 it’s Rosen. I’ve never seen them attached to another QB.

My question is if he’s good enough to be the first QB off the board at 2 then why wouldn’t he be the first QB taken at #1?

I agree. Like Mel Kiper who says today that Josh Allen has been improving his draft stock since this offseason.

I mean, seriously? Improving his draft stock? I don't buy into that. Guys workout, and when they underperform in the workout, you look at the tape to make sure that it was just a bad performance at a workout. You re-check the tape.

But a workout shouldn't improve a guy's draft stock. Maybe with an obscure guy, it might get your attention, but for the guys who already had your attention, I don't buy it one bit


EDIT: Oh, and i wouldn't listen in on Stephen A Smith too much anyway. He was on his radio show (i think it's a local NY thing), and he was talking about Baker Mayfield and telling a caller that Mayfield played in a pro-offense at Oklahoma. But I don't think that's true. Not a traditional pro-offense at least......

LOL...............no, Oklahoma does not run a pro-style offense.

Yup, I changed the station after I heard that one.

The thing with guys like him is that they have their shows and then have to follow a broad range of things. So really they only know the surface of everything.

I mean, I bet I focus a heckuva lot more on these QBs than Stephen A Smith does. Because I don't have to follow NBA basketball that closely, and my college basketball season has been over since November or December, and I'm not that interested in Baseball. And that's pushing aside Golf and whatever else they discuss.

Unless he meant that the Oklahoma players get paid

I don't trust a think Kiper says anymore. Wasn't he basically exposed several years ago for talking up the draft stock of guys that agents were paying him to rave about? Why should a guy like that be given an ounce of credibility after that? I seem to remember a story too about either him or McShay revising the history of their "big boards" on previous drafts so that they better aligned with how the draft turned out.

Kiper was also they guy that was all over Johnny Manziel and was shocked he was dropping so far in the draft. Guys at ESPN are all about "selling" big names for stories.

That was Chad Ford.

Ah, that's who it was with the re-rankings. Kiper still was the guy that was having sketchy meetings with Agents:

https://www.sbnation.com/2010/10/12/1747...f-investigation

I it is probably because I like and want Josh Rosen, but I have a really hard time understanding how anyone thinks he is not clearly the best QB.

My biggest problem with him is the injury history. That said, I probably still have him as my top QB right now.

J/C

Browns had Alonzo Highsmith at Rosen's pro-day.

He looks so good. He's hit the gym this offseason. Look at pictures/video from him from just a few months ago. He's bigger, has more defined muscles and is really growing in to that frame of his. He's a big guy, and he's only going to get more talent out of it. Just because he's refined does NOT mean he doesn't have upside.

Nice pro-day, too. Typical Rosen. He's got all the tools, and finished it up with a pinpoint 60 yarder.

Can't figure out why he shouldn't be the #1 pick. There is some exciting talent in this draft at QB, no doubt, but Rosen still stands out.

It IS strange listening to some of the so called experts. Every one of them say Rosen is the typical PRO QB prospect with a flawless release and footwork. Strong arm good accuracy..etc etc. And how hes perfect for this team or that team but not for the Browns. LMAO. I think many of them will move Rosen higher once some of the personal interviews with the media come out. Even Mayock was laughing with him today , while last week spitting the party line about Rosen may be too aloof to blend in well.

I think the national media guys are just trying to will Rosen to New York, because he's the better QB and they want him in their cash-cow city. The biggest reason I see for him not going to the Browns is that "he doesn't want to play there", which has pretty much been debunked.

I think a large part of "improving his draft stock" has been in improving the perception people have of him. Rosen was a frequent caller on Colin Cowherd's radio show and was championed by Cowherd during the regular season. Cowherd is mouthy, opinionated, and tried to talk as Rosen's surrogate. It was Cowherd who was saying that Rosen would/should stay at UCLA if the Browns had the # 1 pick. Since the season ended, Rosen has distanced himself from Cowherd, and has been saying "All the right things." For someone whose main detriments were a self centered attitude and concussion issues, a perceived attitude adjustment would increase his draft stock in the NFL.

Yeah, I feel the same way. Rosen is my number one guy.

The only reason I can think of that Rosen wouldn't be the number 1 pick is something with his personality (which would be difficult for us to know) and injury questions (which is something that would be difficult for us to know).

Those are things that have to check out.

After that, it seems like a fairly easy decision to me.

I saw video of his pro-day but didn't really watch close or analyze (same as Baker Mayfield's). Not that much to learn from the thing other than, can he physically throw the NFL deep out.

After that, it's just guys playing catch.



But watching all these guys, Rosen is clearly ahead of the rest from what i've seen. He's got three years experience as a starter too. I definitely think that means something.

But, like I said, the personality/medical are things we don't get to see the way the staffs get to. So, I'll put my trust in them. And I think they'll get it right.


Also, like I've said. If we select a diff QB than Rosen, that doesn't mean that it's a mistake or a big screw up. There can be multiple good QBs in a draft. Like the Eli, Big Ben, Rivers draft. So I don't think everyone should be getting depressed if they don't get their guy. There doesn't have to be one way to get the job done

Its because the NFL draft has become such a huge media frenzy that these guys need to draw attention by saying off the wall things, then after they throw enough poo against the wall and something sticks they can hold that up and exclaim how great they are for sayng this when no one else did .

I think many times what the talking heads have in their crazy ass notes and what the actual real football guys have are completely different

Sure hope so. Everytime I see the Josh Allen to us at 1 thing i get so confused.


If that's who we take, i'll embrace the guy and have faith.

But I just don't get that one at all (how excited the media is about this guy). It amazes me how enamored these writers get over combines and pro-days.

Isn't real actual football what matters the most? Cause I watch his tape and he reminds me of Jake Locker. And Jake Locker wasn't particularly good in the NFL. Rosen, he looks like an NFL QB. Comfortable and ready to go. Like a better version of Matt Ryan (in college)

I agree. That's why I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak. I'm not in the meetings. I'm not at the combine or the workouts. I just have to pray that these guys know a franchise QB when they see one and take the right one. I also have to hope that the need for one doesn't make them stupid if they don't see a QB worth the #1 pick. Taking a QB at #1 is both a blessing and a curse. If you get lucky and he's a great player that takes you to a championship or three it's an awesome thing. We NEED that. But if you miss... If you chose wrong? Man, that kills you for years. It set the entire organization back. So it's on them to make the right decision. I hope they do. I'm not getting any younger nor any healthier. They better win one pretty damned soon!

He's big and he has a big arm so the talking heads immediately equate him to Carson Wentz. Wentz played in a west coast pro-style offense in college. He plays in the WCO with Philly. Much easier transition. I don't know if Allen will be a good pro or not. But I seriously doubt that his career path is the same as Wentz had.

All I'm going to say is that YOUR Horse is Rosen. MY Horse is Darnold.

We BEST be calling ONE of them a BROWN at #1.

There is NO other choice.

Baker Mayfield aint bad either. He's caught on with me the more that I watch his games.

Accurate, good arm, plays with swagger, lots of experience

I think it all depends on what you're looking for... I've heard Rosen #1, Darnold #1 and Mayfield #1.

Let's say all 32 teams need a QB and have the first pick, not all are going to be vying for the same one.

Haslam with not drat Rosen, and Mayfield will not be drafted #1...

So if we draft a QB #1 it will be Darnold.

Why wouldn't Haslam draft Rosen? Makes too much sense?

lol

1. Darnold - CLE
2. Allen - BUF
3. Mayfield - DEN
4. Rosen - NYJ
5. Rudolph - AZ

I thought of the 'big four,' Mayfield was the most accurate passer?

http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php

Am I missing something here, or were you trying to prove a point with the rest of what you said? (I'm thinking the latter.)

cfrs, I have a hard time understanding how someone cannot see how knowledgeable people can have a legitimate disagreement about which qb to take at 1.

The throws that each guy are asked to make are completely different. I think Rosen is by far and away the most accurate qb in the draft. In fact, I think he is one of the most accurate qbs I have ever seen.

I am not relying on stats. I am talking about ball placement, fitting the ball into tight windows, being able to make every throw, and most importantly leading his receivers in YAC.

Got ya. But I for one will be happy if we draft either one.

I love Rosen for his short to medium passing accuracy. I love Mason for his deep ball accuracy. I would love either one of these guys. I also love these two the best at reading defenses post snap because they do it better than any of the other QBs in this draft.

I agree that Darnold will be the pick, but Mayfield is still under consideration. I wouldn't say he would not be drafted #1. In fact we could be sitting here in 10 years wishing we had drafted him #1.

You could probably have a throwing contest with Rosen and Mayfield and it would be a fun, close game of horse, but yes Mayfield is the more all-around accurate passer.

It's also a wash on arm strength as well with Mayfield having slightly higher velocity than Rosen.

I think overall Mayfield will be the better quarterback, but unfortunately I see Rosen or Darnold a better fit for Hue and Haley. I think Mayfield could become that guy, so I don't think he's necessarily off the table at #1.

One threw to wide open WR's and the other did not. That says a lot more about accuracy than stats do.

But is that a knock on Mayfield? Not his fault that he plays in a more effective offense

first, you cannot possibly know that any more than I can. s cond, I do not think there is any way in heck haslam interjects himself in the qb decision. does Manziel ring a bell?? plus he is paying big bucks for a team of talent evaluators to make that very decision.

Something I have noticed about Rosen is that he consistently seems to hit guys in stride. Many of Mayfields deep passes seem to be slightly under thrown, requiring the receivers to hesitate a bit and wait for the ball to arrive. When the receiver has 5-7 steps on the DB like Oklahoma's receivers often did, I guess it doesn't matter. But Mayfield won't see that in the NFL. The stats will also not reflect this when looking at his accuracy. That being said, I think we are going with Mayfield at #4.

I wouldn't call it a knock on Mafield per say. I do however believe that a guy who can consistently throw into tight windows has displayed something the other QB hasn't. You can project the guy who hasn't done that may be able to. But there is a lack of evidence to show that's the case.

All you have is the film. The film shows that Rosen has shown the ability to squeeze footballs into NFL windows. The same can't be said about Mayfield. Now who you wish to blame that on or if you wish to project something we haven't seen, you have every right to do so.

I'm simply basing what I'm saying on the film of both players and the evidence dictates we've seen something on film from Rosen we haven't seen from Mayfield.