DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Allen

I really don't get the whole "take the guy that needs to sit" for a year or two and let him learn behind TT. How do U know TT is the answer already. He hasn't played one game here. Will be in a new system with different players. No know has a CLUE of how it will turn out with him. Maybe he has injury game one.. Then you gonna trot Allen out there ? Or Mayfield ? GMAB. You draft the guy that has the most talent right now and if he beats out your starter, then GOOD.. That's whats SUPPOSE to happen !! I don't want to see Kesler and Allen or Mayfield this year at all. They aren't CLOSE to being ready. When was the last time we had a QB play 16 games ? Plan for the WORST, hope for the best.. Pick your most NFL ready QB at one and be done with it.. If we don't go Rosen at one we are making a HUGE mistake.

It still concerns me that Allen has had the injuries to the shoulder, any news from his medicals at the combine?

I personally don't need to see ANY medical.

I KNOW he's got a throwing shoulder full of Metal, Screws and Staples. I don't give a BM about any medical. I know it's there. Don't waste your time showing me the medical.

Just MY humble opinion.

Funny how people can discount facts just because ...

.. Every time I make one of those absolute ( sure thing comments )I get burned , lol ..

.. The only absolute in this draft ( in my opinion ) is drafting " A " QB in the first . I have my favorite , but I am no football Guru by any stretch of the imagination ..

.. there are going to quiet a few up-set posters by the time the Draft ends ..lol .. You know , the ones that will never post again !

I'll give you Rosen, but despite your thoughts, Mayfield will be ready to go week 1. I wouldn't trust Allen or Darnold in that position, but the thinking Mayfield will need to sit a few years is just erroneous.

There, I added Stafford. The site doesn't list Bradshaw. I had originally looked for Unitas and Otto Graham, but they weren't listed either.

The thing is I don't think you look at completion % to judge accuracy.

A lot of things can attribute to completion % that wouldn't necessarily mean he's an inaccurate passer. In that, I think you have to look at the tape and although I'm impressed with his deep ball, I feel his overall accuracy is lacking.

And also with that, many people have said just look at the lack of talent around Allen. However, Billick made a good point when they drafted Kyle Boller. They took the lack of talent into consideration and thought he'd perform better with better talent around him. They were wrong and drafting Boller was a mistake that ultimately got Billick fired.

So because Kyle Boller never got better, the same will hold true for Allen. That's complete BS. A lot of QBs got much better from a completion % standpoint when they reached the NFL. In fact, a number got better just from staying in college for 4 years vs 2 years. In other words, experience matters with regard to such things.

Didn't say that.

I simply quoted Billick who said they felt the lack of talent around him in college skewed his stats and that he was actually better than his play and stats suggested. Many people have stated here that Allen is being hindered by the talent around him.

Boller didn't improve with better talent.

Much of the chatter coming out of the Combine was about the strides Allen had made since the end of the season .. Disclaimer , Allen is my pick .

BTW, I posted this before, but anyone who hasn't seen it and wishes to read...

Billick and Kyle Boller

To each his own ! lol

I agree with this. My only point was that to judge a QB strictly by his comp pct would be a mistake. There are circumstances affecting that stat which are beyond the QB's ability to affect. If some of our QB gurus on this board, or NFL insiders, or experts in the media say he has accuracy issues based on having watched his tape, then I'm fine with it, and I would defer to their judgment. Other than a few highlights, I have not watched Allen play. And surprise-surprise ... he looks really good in his highlight film.

Did Dorsey draft Mahomes in KC?

Yep !

Look I am not trying to convince anyone on Allen .. I have watched from his Junior year on ..

I just looked it up. Yes, Dorsey was still the GM in KC when they traded up for Mahomes.

I mention that because Allen kinda gives me a similar feeling as Mahomes. Super high ceiling, just needs a little bit of time to groom, but will still require a high draft pick to get him. Dorsey pulled the trigger on Mahomes (even moreso, traded up), I could see him do something similar in grabbing Allen at 4, now that he has Taylor to weather the storm out of the gate.

I'm just wondering, did you guys read this sentence in my original post?

"Completion rates may not be the truest measure of accuracy, but there are some interesting names in the same range as Allen."

I know what you guys are saying, I said so in my original post. I was just pointing out that, when most of Allen's detractors point to his completion percentage as evidence of inaccuracy, that his completion percentage is in very good company.

And again, I'm not on the Allen bandwagon.

See, I don't get this. It's hard to see much in the way of strides until the bullets start flying and things get uncomfortable for him.


That's how you really know. Because throwing at the combine, and even working out at the combine, is not the same thing as being put in real football situations. You can use it to practice your technique, etc.

But real football is what matters the most. The one, in the games. So it's hard for me to change that much of my opinion about a guy based off the combine, etc.

It's why the film matters the most. Combine can emphasize what you think, but if what you see doesn't show up on the tape, that you're taking a real risk.


So yeah, I really don't trust these "strides" that Allen has made

And we all have opinions ..

https://twitter.com/Cianaf/status/972975196222173185

I know you can find lowlights of just about any prospect, but I don't want to draft this guy at 1.

Did you let Dorsey know?

I can find a similar play for everyone of the top 6 candidates.

As we inch closer to draft day, this guy is starting to get a lot of "to the Browns at 1" chatter... and I hate it. I hope it's just chatter without any substance. I can't see how this guy can be the #1 overall pick.

The 3rd best quarterback of the Mountain West conference can't be the overall #1 pick in the draft?

Yes, he was not 1st or 2nd team conference QB last year. He was honorable mention.

Question, for the thread:

What do you view as Allen's weaknesses?

Accuracy. Of the top QB talked about he is by far the least accurate. I worry that he’s Derrick Anderson 2.0

j/c

Does anyone know what thread the QB under center stats are in?

that he sucked despite playing in a joke of a conference.

that he has a fine throwing motion, almost perfect, yet is undisputedly the most inaccurate QB out of the top 5.

he wasn't even the best QB in his own conference. yet somehow he's a top QB in the draft.

His feet, decision making, which leads to his inaccuracy at times, other times his throws are outstandingly accurate, especially on the run. Problems a lot of QBs have coming out. Watch the two early throws vs Hawaii he made to the opposite hash, ropes that were on the money, perfect throws, both dropped. Those type of throws are what’s gonna get him drafted higher then most want. Whether he deserves it, only time will tell. He’s got a long way to go.

I feel that Josh Allen is the perfect QB for the Cleveland Browns. He is 6'5" 233lbs. In the AFC North, a QB needs to have size to him. I understand people who are apprehensive about Josh Allen's college completion percentages. I would mention that Josh Allen threw the ball down field often in college. His completion percentage suffered a little because of it. I would like to mention that he is a winner. His team was 7-3 in his senior season and won a Bowl game. This cannot be said of Darnold. As a final plug for why I think Josh Allen is the correct QB for the Cleveland Browns, I give you HoF QB John Elway. John Elway did not complete 60% of his passes in the NFL until his 11th season in the league (1993). John Elway had taken his team to playoffs 6 times and had a 7-5 record before he completed 60% of his passes in a NFL season. We have better receivers in Cleveland than Josh Allen had in Wyoming. I believe that building a team to win the AFC North should be the only goal of the Cleveland Browns. I believe Josh Allen is the best player for that purpose.

Have you watched his tape?

Yes I have Petey. I think that Josh Allen is the best option for the Browns. I could also mention the success rate of NFL QB's who start an NFL game prior to their 22nd birthday. This list of failed QB's gives me apprehension about Darnold. Rosen is not an AFC North QB nor is Baker Mayfield. If you believe that the Browns should take a QB at #1 overall. I believe the obvious choice is Josh Allen.

Why the heck aren't Baker Mayfield or Josh Rosen AFC North QBs?

I watch the film, and it's not even close. Rosen and Mayfield are far and away better QBs than Josh Allen. I don't care what a combine or pro-day shows. The game is what matters. Real defenses.

When that happens, Allen is inconsistent and not accurate.

I love the kid. It will be fun to watch him progress and become a better QB. I think he will. I don't think we'll see him do that in Cleveland. I don't think our FO see themselves in the position to take the risk.

"Inconsistent and not accurate", yes... but not as bad as people make it seem. Most also agree that he can be much more efficient with something as simple (and coachable) as proper footwork and balance.

TBH, I question the few points of completion percentage being some "kiss of death". Trade 2-3 completions per game for a QB that can throw any pass, to any part of the field, at any velocity? Sign me up.

I hope he lands in a good position to grow as an NFL QB... I just hope it's not with a different team in the AFC North.

The only thing I can find is that we have scheduled a private workout with Baker Mayfield. No date was given.

I think putting outliers on positions like this will get you into trouble. Take the best player regardless of size.

If we go into the draft saying we need to have a quarterback of a certain size then we are doing it wrong.