DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Roye out

pittman and purcell, are still way too small to be playing 3-4 de in the nfl. they still need to add much bulk. these guys were drafted as developmental players. if we are w/o roye, which i feel will be the case, then, we need harris to step up, shaun smith could see some time at nt and end, fraser on passing downs, and we need to get parker and osho in at some end too. this will be our only hope is to rotate guys in and keep the bigger guys in there to clog the los, otherwise, pushed off the ball all year long and seeing every team rush for 150 yards a game

Please not another year of that......

And Cleveland's bad luck strikes again..

Get well soon Orpehus, we need you.

Fraser playing with 3rd team???

Wow, i thought the coaches would give him a better look than that....I was thinking he could even start this year especially now with Roye out.

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Youd take your chances with a 7th round rookie over a veteran player whose had some playing time?

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Well that depends, is he from the SEC?

basically if we are w/o roye, we need to scheme in the biggest run-stuffers we can on 1st and 2nd down. then on 3rd down, you bring in the smaller dl who are quicker for added pass rush. actaully, i'd be happy w/ having our whole dl be 3NT sized guys who could just clog up the whole line of scrimmage, try running against that.

D-Line is weakest spot on the team..... I'm hoping Orien Harris shows up. I remember watching him at Miami, he was pretty good. Big boy who was quick. He's definitely built to be 3-4 DE. I think he might be our solution this year for a rotational DE. I wanted him when he came out in the draft. We could really use a developing DE to pan out. That would leave us with one less need next-year. Leaving us with the need for a real NT and another RB. Harris could be the DE that would be scratched off the need sheet.

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i'd be happy w/ having our whole dl be 3NT sized guys who could just clog up the whole line of scrimmage, try running against that.

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That would be similar to running against San Diego. All three of their guys are pretty big dudes if i'm not correct.

Peen, over the years I've chatted with you on line here,, I've got to say that most times, I may tease you and rib you in a good natured way,,

But taking Pittman (Who, in what little action I've seen, impresses me), a Rookie drafted in the late rounds, over a guy that's played in the league for two years and has steadily shown improvement....

Well, lets just say, your hatrid for some players is out in the open,,, I'm afraid I don't understand your thinking at all...

Listen, if Pittman beats Fraser out to start in place of Roye (and we can DEADBATE that all we want) then sure,, I'll watch,,, and I'll root for the guy. I've already stated that I like his attitude so that's not much of a stretch really...

But to say you would rather have a late round rookie over a guy that's played and shown improvement,,,, that's just crazy man.. Makes no sense at all.

OK Just clicking. Also just read about this.This is not aimed at anyone.
But I am soooo over the doom and gloom after every injury.
( I am guilty of this as well.)
But starter, vet, rookie or not. The mentality "MUST" be OK!, we have a spot that has to be filled and has to be filled effectively.
If the first guy cannot hack it there will someone else who would like to have a spot on this team. The players gotta stay up and not let this get them down.
Injuries are going to happen, and we as Browns fans gotta stop crying in our beers. ( I like a little salt as much as the next guy but sheesh) We must effect change. WOOF!( I know ,I am on a rah rah kick )

j/c
It isn't bad luck.It should be expected when you have aged veterans playing such a phyisically abused postion.Although I've liked Roye,it isn't nearly as bad as it seems.Robaire,Orpheus andTed should have seen thier reps at Tackle,End and Nose dimished this year.It just hastens the time for someone else to step up.

Well, is anyone really surprised? I mean the DL is made up of aging guys near the end of their careers. Now it's time to see which, if any, young guy will step up. Daman, I like what you have to say about Pittman, I also liked how Fraser showed steady improvement. So maybe there can be a rotation between these guys. I'm sure Roye will be back as soon as he can. Next offseason has got to focus on D-Line.

Just Clicking,

If The Browns Are Going To Move Forward As a Team, Players Need To Step Up, This Is The Time To Do It.

Its Too Bad For Orpheus, He Played Good Ball For Us, His Time Might Be Up..

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but there are MUCH worse case scenarios

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....and we've already suffered through most of them.


I agree, if this is as bad as it gets, we're blessed.

It's True PPE, if this is as bad as it gets,, we ARE lucky

our DL needs to be addressed next year.

just clicking...

Ummmm its an injury - it was bound to happen but I see a lot of Chicken Littles running around exclaiming that the sky is falling...lol

Because of Roye's age and frequency now on injuries to the same knee - I'm going in with the frame of mind that he will not be there for us.

But with the additions of Robaire Smith, Shaun Smith and the steal off of the Steeler's Practice Squad Orien Harris we have added some depth on the DL.

Ethan Kelly did show good work prior to his season ending injury last year Shaun Smith can slide outside on running downs. Parker looked good in his brief appearance last year (of course he went down with injury as soon as he came on) Fraser improved and a lot of the young kids are coming on.

I think we got a lot more depth than people give us credit for.

JMHO

Lets Hope That Depth Equates To Production On The Field

Cleveland Browns Defensive end Orpheus Roye, who signed a three-year contract extension with the Browns in March 2006, will undergo arthroscopic surgery on his right knee, an early training camp setback for Cleveland, which could be without its best lineman to start the season.

Roye, who missed the final five games last season with a knee injury, had been bothered by a "clicking" sound during the first days of camp, coach Romeo Crennel said Wednesday.

"They are going to clean the joint out," said Crennel, adding Roye has torn cartilage in his knee.

The 34-year-old Roye will have surgery on Thursday. The procedure will be on the same knee Roye had operated on during the offseason. Crennel said doctors will not know until after the operation how long it will take for Roye to get back on the field.

Although bothered by bad knees the past few seasons, Roye, who has been with the Browns since 2000, has been one of the team's most dependable and durable players. Roye's experience is vital in Cleveland's 3-4 defensive scheme, which puts a premium on its ends to rush the quarterback and contain the perimeter. Cleveland's defense was ranked 29th against the run last season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2957283

Tell ya' right now...CUT THE CHAINS...

Orien Harris can staff that End spot...All u need is a good rotation with a Defensive Coordinator that KNOWS when a RUN is coming...

CUT THY CHAINS...HE's DONE DONE...

Watch how we SLAM the DL next off season...We're getting ready for a RUN in 2008 and beyond...LIKE IT OR NOT PEEN...

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Knee sidelines Roye again
Zac Jackson, Staff Writer
08.01.2007
Orpheus Roye's knees are giving him problems again, and the Browns hope arthroscopic surgery will allow Roye to be ready for the September 9 season opener against his former team.

Browns coach Romeo Crennel said Roye will have some cartilage cleaned out of his left knee Thursday morning. It's the same knee Roye had surgery on last winter, though Crennel said the loose cartilage is "in a different spot" than the previous problem.

Crennel said it's too early to tell how long Roye will be sidelined, but the Browns hope to have him back in time for the regular season. Crennel said the players who will get a chance to fill Roye's role as the starting left defensive end are Shaun Smith, J'Vonne Parker, Simon Fraser and Orien Harris.

"They're all going to get some work," he said.

Smith has been projected as the backup nose tackle behind Ted Washington but has taken some reps at end. Parker has been a nose tackle the last two seasons but saw time at end during the spring. Fraser started five games last year in place of Roye, and Harris in his first training camp with the Browns after being signed off Pittsburgh's practice squad last winter.

Roye's absence should also mean more reps for second-day draft picks Melila Purcell and Chase Pittman. Alvin Smith, another young defensive end, is out with a broken leg he suffered while playing this spring in NFL Europa.

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Orien Harris can staff that End spot...All u need is a good rotation with a Defensive Coordinator that KNOWS when a RUN is coming...

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What leads you to believe this? SteelHack has said he was cut by the Steelers because of his work ethic. The two practices I saw this year it is probably a tie between Harris and Kelly for the laziest lineman.

I think Orien Harris is underrated personally...

Oh No!!!!! Not the rolling Ball of Butcher Knives!!!!!

Do we lose something...probably(chances are he will be close to ready by seasons start) But what we will miss most is his experience... It does, however, give us a better look at the youngsters....Frankly, I will not be all up in arms over this...

Orpheus....geat back as soon as you can...hoping the best for you...we certainly can use you this year....

Earlier this year I stated that when Andruzzi was cut we would all look back and realize that was the moment when the team made a quantum leap toward competitiveness. I will now state that the day Roye, Ted and Willie are gone the Def. will do the same. Unfortunately, that might not be until sometime in 2008 or 2009.

I think it will be completed in 2009 when we get another 1st round pick to use on a d-linemen...

UNLESS...

Shaun Smith fills in at NT...
Chase Pittman fills in at one of the DE spots...
Orien Harris fills in at the other...

Thats what I would like to see..

Sorry to hear this. we need him & this "indefinitely" concerns me. We haven't been entirely straight up with fans about injuries, severity, etc. Hope he is better than I think.
Meanwhile, go Browns! And may the Elf be with you!

so with Roye out until AT LEAST game 1...i mean, even if he comes back, how many games before he's out again?..., i thought we could discuss possibilities for filling that hole...i'll list my thoughts, and please offer your opinion, any new ideas you might have...

obviously, there are the backups...

1. Shaun Smith...personally, i'd rather have this guy focus on filling in for big Ted...we need someone in that spot for rotation, and the other possibilities are Baba-Osh and Parker, which were key reasons for our poor runD last season...no thanks, let's park big Shaun there for awhile, and let the coach-in-training show him how it's done...

2. Fraser...been there, done that...again, a reason our line stunk last year, but he was young and inexperienced...i say you give him reps, keep him as rotational guy...

3. Harris...an unknown...doesn't have the experience that Fraser does...then again, he doesn't have the experience Fraser does ...again, i think this is a earn your reps guy for the rotation, but not your starter, if we're looking for solid line play...

4. Corey Simon...he's reportedly going to be released by the Colts...didn't pass their physical, but didn't sound like he'd be out for a long time...he's 30, so still got some legs...he's 6-2, 300, so he's in the ballpark for 3-4 end size...and if he's looking for a team, wouldn't he like to catch on with a team that he could start for?...no experience in a 3-4 that i know of, but is that a deal-breaker?...like J Lewis, we could offer him 1 year to showcase his stuff...will give us some much-needed help bridging the gap to what will surely be an offseason targetting the Dline in 08...

ok, now tell me why #4 won't work ...

Yeah let's save some money, forget trying to sign this #10 fool and use that money to sign Simon instead!

Hmmm. Interesting topic.

Its entirely possible that Roye is just being pro-active. Might be optimistic, but this type of follow-up procedure isn't all that uncommon. At least this is what I'm hoping for.

I think most of your options are pretty valid. Grantham tends to rotate a lot of guys in anyway. He's very package oriented (like Romeo was). Our "3-4" defense rarely has 4 true LBs and 3 true down linemen. They move those guys all over the place.

Smith (unless he's having learning problems) could certainly play end on run downs while Ted's in the middle and rotate to NG on passing downs. Baba ad Parker could rotate in to keep him fresh on less critical downs.

Simon is okay on medium to longer yardage situations, but really struggled against the run last year. Hopefully he continues to improve. Remember he's still changing his body from college, where he was more of a rusher than a stuffer. Don't know how much more he can improve, but he's improved every year so far.

I don't know anything about Harris.

I'm not that familiar with Simon either, but he sounds like he's in a similar physical situation to Roye. I'd rather stick with what we have.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/IND/10274948

Simon absent from Colts camp, status unclear

NFL.com wire reports



TERRE HAUTE, Ind. (July 30, 2007) -- Corey Simon's mysterious absence from the Indianapolis Colts entered its second season with no immediate resolution.

Nearly 10 months after the Colts put the former Pro Bowl selection on the non-football illness/injury list with an undisclosed ailment, the 6-foot-2, 300-pound defensive tackle was absent.

Published reports last week indicated Simon planned to report on time. But he wasn't seen on campus before the players' reporting deadline and was missing again when his teammates took the field for the first time.

What's going on?

Even the Colts struggled to explain it. Team president Bill Polian said he was still waiting to hear if Simon passed the team physical. A few minutes later, coach Tony Dungy said Simon had failed the medical tests. Later in the afternoon, Simon's agent, Roosevelt Barnes, said he also had learned Simon had failed the physical.

"It's unexpected. Corey's in great shape," Barnes told The Associated Press. "He's ready to play. He's been ready to play. It's a mystery to me why he didn't pass the physical. When he talked to them Friday, they told him to pack enough clothes to stay until Sunday."

When asked what the Colts might do next, Dungy responded: "There's a couple of different lists we can put him on based on when he might be able to play again."

Polian wouldn't say what the team might do although he did acknowledge Indy had only two options if Simon was cleared to practice -- keeping him on the active roster or releasing him.

"We're awaiting word on some test results, and I don't want to address that right now," Polian said. "If he passes the physical, we'll address that then."

Simon's status was one of two prominent questions the Super Bowl champs faced as camp opened. The other, of course, was finding a replacement for recently retired left tackle Tarik Glenn, a three-time Pro Bowler who protected Peyton Manning's blind side the past nine years.

Rookie Tony Ugoh will get the first chance.

That's no surprise. Polian drafted Ugoh in the second round, expecting him to be Glenn's heir in 2008. Originally, Polian said Ugoh would play guard this season.

When Glenn retired, the plan changed.

"We drafted him to play that position and we think he'll be OK," Polian said. "Charlie (Johnson) will get some work there, (Daniel) Federkeil will get some work there, but I'm sure the best five will be out there to start the season."

What it means for Ugoh is that he'll spend the next three weeks cramming -- and there's plenty to learn.

From Manning's trademark audibles to the Colts' no-huddle offense to blocking one of the league's most feared pass rushers -- Dwight Freeney -- in practice, Ugoh will get a crash course in how to protect the Super Bowl MVP.

"There's no better preparation, and I enjoy working with him (Freeney)," Ugoh said. "But the system here is a lot more complex than what we did in college. My main concern now is learning the system and getting the system down."

Some speculated the Colts may start by putting a veteran on Manning's blind side, which would have meant moving either Johnson or Ryan Diem from the right side to the left.

Diem has started at right tackle each of the past four seasons.

Johnson, a second-year player from Oklahoma State, is best known for replacing the injured Diem in the Super Bowl and dropping what would have been a touchdown pass from Manning on a tackle eligible play last season.

But just because Ugoh's there now doesn't necessarily mean he'll be there on opening night against New Orleans.

"That's what training camp is all about," Dungy said. "We can say it's Peyton's job to lose or Marvin (Harrison's) job to lose, but we've got a lot of guys who can play out there. We've got a lot of guys who can play corner and a lot of guys who play linebacker."



I saw something on the bottom line on NFL Network that they may release him.. With Orpheus being hurt he would be worth a look, thoughts??

well, he didn't pass his physical so that would be the first thing to get past... find out why and move forward if we can.

RE: Shaun Smith
NT: Ted Washington
LE: Robaire Smith

when Ted gets tired.. move Shaun to NT.. and let Orien Harris, Simon Frasier, or the LSU dude in there at RE..

DANGLET...

well, Simon is younger than Roye...maybe someone else could verify or debunk, but MO was that he's on par with Roye when Roye was at that age...unfortunately, Roye's much older and more worn now...

KIDD...

thanks for the posting the article/link...that was one of the reports that put Simon into my head...

SBDOGG...

clearly, passing the physical would be a must, no matter who he plays for...just kind of assuming that he'll be ready to play this season...

TURK...

do you think S Smith has the endurance (mental and physical) to play 2 downs at end and a 3rd at NT most of the game?...i question that...especially coming off so little playing time last season...

like i said, i'd rather have him rotating in for Ted and grooming to be the replacement (yes, we may bring in a draft stud or other young NT next year, but for now, it doesn't hurt to make him the understudy)...

Hmmm, Is it out of the question to place Wimbley at DE? lol. For a 4-3 maybe not. but yeah probably not a great idea for 3-4 right now huh.

I'm a Fraser Pimp so id say lets give him a shot along with the other backups. Let our DL try to show us what they got for one more year and then we worry about it next year in the draft.

Unless we trade away, get some major injuries, or loose some people becuase of a contract. The only positions i see us drafting next year is possibly WR and DL. Maybe QB but theirs always FA next year also.