DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Josh Allen

This is a good point. Many qbs wait to throw until the receiver comes open. I think there are only two qbs in this draft that throw w/anticipation. One does it extremely well and the other has shown flashes, which at times leads to picks...but, I get the read he was making.

Mayock just kept saying it over and over but kinda brushed it off as being okay because of his arm strength allowed it. I just kept hearing ‘red flag’. I was surprised that Mayock didn’t point out the downside.

Or he could simply need more experience working on timing and anticipation. I think in a few years (3, 4, 5?) this kid will be lighting it up and will be a 15 year starter.
His ability to sling it quickly when he sees an opening is not a negative. He's going to burn a lot of defenses with that quickness and big arm.

I didn't listen to it, but waiting to throw until the guy is open results in a lot of problems for NFL qbs. We saw it first hand w/Kizer last year. Weeden was atrocious in that regard.

Throwing w/anticipation is complex because it isn't just about knowing which option your receiver will choose on the stem of the route tree, but also what the defensive player's responsibilities are in certain coverages and how fast the closing speed is of individual defenders. Heck, you even have to consider if your receiver tends to round cuts or makes quick, precise cuts.

I think it's a huge qb trait that isn't talked about as much because it's harder to recognize and explain by most analysts.

I think it's directly tied to a QB's ability to read defenses and to KNOW where he is going with the ball before he even snaps it. At least in general anyways. This is what allows you to throw with anticipation vs not being able to read the defense and only throwing once you see them open.

Yup. Same page.

A very risky prospect. And definitely not who I want to take at 1.

He could end up being an excellent player. But too dangerous for me.

My rankings are what they are, and just because I definitely don't want Josh Allen, doesn't mean that I don't think he's a 1st round prospect or anything like that. I just see 3 or 4 players better than him.



Everyone, in the right situation can work out. We're picking our guy at 1 though, and I want the cream of the crop. That's why I've been an adament no about Josh Allen. Doesn't mean he can't be successful, just, I'd like some other guys much much more

I saw the same thing. In comparison Darnold's feet were much quicker in those drills.
I thought the camera angle that was shown of Allen's pro day was much better than what they showed of Darnolds....it was a bit difficult to see if Darnold hit his receiver in stride without slowing down sometimes.

I believe Darnold is the better prospect than Allen and I think he is the one we should take. Allen with his size and arm strength is intriguing but the concerns that have been brought up about him on these posts are real and legit. Basically, those concerns are what we saw with DK. We don't need to repeat.

Agreed. The accuracy, consistency, and decision making questions I have with Allen just make me nervous.


As someone said, he wasn't even All-Mountain West, period, in 2017. He was second team All Mountain West in 2016. He's not even regarded as the best in his own conference. A conference regarded as weak. Doesn't mean he's a bad prospect, but those kind of things are a bit alarming.

The word I want to hear when discussing QB is accurate. It does not matter if a QB can throw a fastball if he cannot hit the broad side of a barn.

And if accuracy is the deciding factor you have to go Rosen all day. I still take Darnold, or Allen even (if I'm picking anywhere but #1) because of the durability concern.

Just a little history and it's not even the same sport but it's pertinent to the topic. Back in the early 60's there was a pitching prospect named Steve Dalkowski who was said to be able to throw a baseball 105-110 MPH. The problem? Couldn't come close to getting it over the plate most of the time. If a QB has a rocket for an arm and can throw it 90 yards that's great but if he never becomes accurate and can never anticipate separation he will never be a top QB. I think everyone on this board knows that but it's worth noting.

I don't think you can narrow down being an NFL QB to 1 trait.
Being an NFL QB is a combination of skills.

e.g. if it was all about accuracy Sam Bradford be considered a better QB then Cam Newton.

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He only passed for 200 more yards then Lamar Jackson rushed for.
Allen has a ton of question marks.
Level of competition. Lack of production/efficiency/accuracy/decision making at said lower level of competition. Injury.

He has huge "plus" categories.
Other worldly arm strength. Great athleticism considering his size.
Comes from an offense and coaching staff that coached Carson Wentz.

Carson Wentz helped dispel some of the level of competition concerns since he faced the same situations.

But Allen is actually, bigger, more athletic and has a stronger arm.

Like with any QB can you build an offense around Allen that emphasizes his strengths? That doesn't force a power thrower like Flacco into a dink and dunk West Coast Offense with Morningwhig?

Can you devise a scheme, gameplan and passing game that caters to his throwing style? Do you have a plan in place to improve his weak areas?
Footwork, decision making and anticipation?

He's not my top QB prospect.
But I can understand why he's considered one of the top 5.

Well, I tried to add some knowledge and insight to these qb threads w/out praising anyone or trashing anyone. I was hoping that some might be interested in learning, but again, that isn't the case. Everyone understands the nuances of the position implicitly and aren't interested in learning.

Yet another brick in the wall.

... And then there's this report:
Browns baiting Giants to trade up for Sam Darnold

Why? Because I guess we are enamored with Josh Allen. Yes, the source is Dan Patrick, and he doesn't strike me as someone who's entirely "connected". But we just signed Taylor and Stanton which seems to point to letting a rookie sit on the bench.

I can just see a board meltdown if we trade out of #1, only to take Allen #2. Hopefully this is all a smokescreen.

I've seen you pimping Mayfield for a bit now, and I wanted to say that this has eased my mind on the Browns drafting him. My only knock on him is that I wish he was 4 inches taller. And if you like him that much, then maybe there's something there. I'll be happy with Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield.

My question to you is this, what would you say to the people out there that say Mayfield has reached his "Ceiling" for development? To those that say he is as good as he's going to get?

Honestly, I think I'd have a meltdown.

I'm trying to prepare myself for this. But Jesus God No

Ugh, I still can't get over this. There's no way this is possible.

Cleveland Browns Daily, says it's between Darnold and Mayfield.


If we select Allen over Rosen or Mayfield, it would be a real test of my faith in this regime. A real test. I can roll with Darnold. I'd be happier with Mayfield. I'd be happiest with Rosen.


But Allen. Oof. That could possibly ruin my summer

I don't get hung up choosing one prospect over another prospect.

There are different reasons for everyone of these prospects to succeed or fail.

It will all play out in time. I dont see the point in having a preconceived negative or positive reaction to the QB they pick.

I will judge them on the outcome.

Yeah, I'm with you there. I also don't know where Dan Patrick is getting his sources from, but he's been really, really high on Allen for some crazy reason. He's been saying something to the effect of, "We might have 3 QBs go in the first picks ... Darnold, Rosen and Allen".

I think part of it has to do with him interviewing Jordan Palmer and he raved about how good Josh Allen was. But you have to remember, Palmer is working for Allen right now. He should be out there stumping for his guy, but we shouldn't be taking what he is saying as gospel either. He's not some objective scout giving his opinions on the incoming class.

I dunno how you do it then. Cause there are some guys that I just don't want.

Especially at the number 1 pick. This year. When we have the chance to change everything, instead of continued losing over and over and over like we've done for every season since we went 7-9, and every season before that since we went 10-6 and every season before that since we went 9-7 and every season before that since we came back twenty years ago

I've been a coach or instructor for the bulk of my life. I approach all prospects as if i was gonna coach them. One of the few things ive learned is there isn't just 1 way. Terry Bradshaw and Roethlisberger to Montana to Elway to Wilson to Brady to Flacco.

I tend to fall on the Bill Walsh/Mike Shananan spectrum in that i look at what players can do. And all the prospects have aspects of their game that an offensive can build around.

I trust that Dorsey will find a guy that fits into the Hue and Haley's coaching requirements. I believe this organization has a good structure in place to develop a QB. And at the end of the day rhe sutuation is just as important as the prospect, imo.

Fair enough. Situation is certainly critical. It's just difficult to have that kind of faith to be okay with whoever they get. I'm accepting of a number of guys. Josh Allen is one i'm less accepting of. Cause, from my scouting, he's certainly not deserving of that pick.

We all have a lot invested in this team. And we all desperately want the Browns to become successful.

Obviously Dorsey, Hue, and Haslam are in the same boat there. It's just hard, looking at someone that you definitely don't think is the right choice, and staying calm and being okay with it. Not like I can do anything of course, but I'm quite emotionally invested here, lol.

They are professionals though. I just hope to God that if they whoever they select is the right person. And I'll have a difficult time keeping the faith if they select a guy that I don't think fits our organization.

Patrick is from the New York area and broadcasts from the home ESPN studios in Bridgeport. He is going to go for anything that pushes the NY teams and drive time ratings.

j/c

Ultimately, these QBs will be not judged by where they are drafted, but by their careers. We can say Allen or Jackson aren't worth the 1st pick, but if they stud out while whomever we pick at #1 doesn't, few will remember how they were ranked coming into the draft.

I'm a Darnold guy, with Rosen very close behind. I see Mayfield's talent but question his character. I worry about Jackson's frame. Allen has huge upside but has more to improve than any of the others. Rudolph is a bit of a wild card.

But while I'll be happy with Darnold or Rosen, if they prove to be good while Allen (or any of the others, but this is Allen's thread) has a HOF career, we will be seen as having blown the pick. The truth is, it's all a crap shoot. You can play the odds but can't predict the outcome.

+ 1

Yeah, I can completely agree with that as well. I said as much in another post, wondering if the mainstream (spelled, New York/LA) media was trying to talk up Allen so that their LA guys could get to NY teams.

Just listed to the podcast an hour ago too. He did say "former scout" which made me wonder why he would have any inside information.

Patrick may be in Connecticut, but that's still somewhat of a "suburb" of New York City. In fact they do shows from a New York Studio occasionally. They may not be a true New York'ers, but I still think they know where their bread is buttered.

Bristol (where ESPN Studios and the Dan Patrick Show are filmed) is sort of on the border of the New York and Boston Sports Markets. Half way between New York and Boston, and probably an even distance from the New York State and Massachussetts border.

It's kinda funny. Cause it's right in the battleground of those two markets.

For example, down near me, we're Yankees, Mets, Jets, and Giants. Whereas, I imagine where RockyHillDawg is, it's Redsox and Patriots, hands down. There's some rivers which I consider dividing lines, but that far North, the river boundaries blur

Am I the only one that thinks all of this nonsense Hue is putting out leads to Josh Allen.

"Will not play no matter what".



Incoming disaster.

Sure hope not. I don't know how anyone can think this guy is a number one pick. He wasn't even a particularly good college player in a terrible conference for godsake

My hope is that we don't want either Darnold or Allen, but we're trying to create a buzz to entice either the Giants or the Jets to trade up to #1 and take them since we think those quarterbacks are their respective choices.

I've been praying every night we draft Mayfield. Maybe I should just pray we don't take Allen.

My hope is that we just pick the guy we want most. Be it Rosen, Mayfield, or Darnold (all of whom I like).

Just don't select Josh Allen.


I figured his name would fizzle out at some point, and it just doesn't. I just don't get it. It makes me crazy. I mean, am I the crazy one. As I pointed out before, every other small school QB has awards and accolades. They've been the best in their conferences, etc.

Josh Allen, hasn't. In a garbage conference. It's absolutely nuts to think that this guy, who's ridiculously inconsistent, inaccurate, makes poor decisions, is somehow justifiable to be a number 1 pick.

Honestly, it's sad because i'm 32 years old and married, and kind of have a life. But, i'll be losing sleep over Josh freaking Allen. Honestly, i'm ready to start praying. I wish that John Dorsey could just say in an interview, "Don't worry guys, we aren't selecting Josh Allen"

How can you select a football player with the first pick in the draft, who has proven nothing in actual football games other than, he's not that good

Hues comments about the QB sitting no matter what suggest it is definitely one of the two. Saying he is sitting no matter what screams "project" which indicates allen.