"He has enough pluses that I still like him," said one NFL quarterbacks coach. "If he was really sharp with that, then he would be a top-10 pick. It was bad, but not the worst I've ever seen. Not even the worst at this combine."
Vick wants to help Jackson navigate the draft process, but aside from a few conversations, he's had a difficult time contacting him. Jackson has a tiny camp, electing to represent himself instead of hiring an agent. His mother, Felicia Jones, serves as his manager.
"The preparation is everything in the National Football League, from the time prior to the draft to your last game," Vick said. "That has to be at a premium for him now more than ever. It's very important, and I'mma get him there. I'm gonna continue to fight to help get him there."
Regardless of whether he does or doesn't "get there," Jackson deserves this opportunity. He played his entire career at quarterback. He was a Heisman winner, then a finalist the following year, playing the position. He is one of the best playmakers in the draft.
Jackson has earned the opportunity to play quarterback in the NFL. Anyone saying different should check the tape.
I think this was overlooked in your article Swish.
This was what I was saying about hiring an agent to navigate him through the draft process.
Yet folks said I didn't know what I was talking about.
Shows up to the combine, unprepared for the whiteboard talks. Probably not as much because he is lazy or anything, but instead because he probably didn't know how important it was (because he didn't hire an agent to get him with the people to help him through the process).
Vick, who's been in the league a long long time, is having trouble reaching him.
There's more to what an agent does than just negotiating your contract. Lamar would be much better served if he had followed the route of so many other players, instead of being his own agent and having his mom be his "manager".
Mom's are great. But so are people that know how the NFL operates. You can use both. Lots of money is on the line here. A reputable agent understands the process and pays for itself
I noticed Jackson wasn't on the QB grand tour stops... just saying.
The top 4 QBs all had their pro days around the same time. Louisville pro day isn’t until the 29th.
We can make that judgement if come the 29th, the browns aren’t there.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I'm sure somebody will be there. Just don't be surprised if we only send Defensive coaches along with the FO as the guy they might be taking a big look at is Jaire Alexander, CB.
Lamar just doesn't seem to be in our wheel house this year. But he is gaining respect as a QB.
But a lot of bad grades in the interview stuff so far.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I was saying the same thing. An agent does so much more then negotiating a rookie contract.
Imho Lamar Jackson's perception was limited by lack of having an agent advocating for him during the draft process. I don't know who Lamar is working with for prep in the draft process but preparation is key. I know Josh Rosen worked with Athlete's First which has ties in the NFL community including QBs and former HCs. Josh Allen and Sam Darnold's agents hooked them up with Jordan Palmer for their prep. Palmer previously worked with Deshaun Watson and other QBs.
Maybe Lamar is working with someone credible and well contected behind the scenes...but imho an agent would have helped his draft process....a lot.
The top 4 QBs all had their pro days around the same time. Louisville pro day isn’t until the 29th. We can make that judgement if come the 29th, the browns aren’t there.
But can't you agree, it doesn't seem to make much sense to not hire an agent, who has a plan to get you ready for the draft?
I mean, you saw right there reports that his white board skills were bad, that Michael Vick (a guy who played in the league a long time) is having trouble contacting him.
Maybe Lamar is working with someone credible and well contected behind the scenes...but imho an agent would have helped his draft process....a lot.
I really hope so. There's some folks really canning this guy as not a high talent.
At the very least, he's a steal in the 2nd round. He should go in the 1st, and I think he definitely will because of where the NFL is at with the age of QBs and his talent.
Someone like the Chargers, Bills, Dolphins, Saints, Steelers, Cardinals, will select Lamar Jackson and will really luck out. Cause he can really play.
I just hate to see someone screw themselves out of money/draft position after all they accomplished and showed in college
"Stats are for losers, in my opinion. The guy won," ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. said on a January conference call when asked about Allen's completion percentage. A month later, when asked why he doesn't believe Jackson is a first-rounder, Kiper responded, "It's the accuracy throwing the football."
Has Kiper never heard of COPY RIGHT INFRINGEMENT ... ...
You better let him know; we got your back.
Stats are for......TM (R) DiamDawg@dawgtalkers.net
I agree now that not getting an agent probably hurt him. At the time it made sense as far as rookie contracts go, but hey he tried something different and it didn’t work out.
But what does that have to do with ability on the field? Him not having a good interview as far as X’s and O’s Will be interesting to see play out.
Cause he certainly understood X’s and O’s When we watch the tape.
And so I’m just judging him based on the same criteria others have on QBs.
He ran pro style concepts at louville under petrino. So doesn’t that put him in the category of Rosen and Darnold?
Just talking pure passing ability, the only QB who put up better overall numbers was Mayfield. And I have hammered that point in with facts.
His throwing motion compared to the others is fine. His biggest issue is lower body mechanics. Can’t say that about Darnold.
People talk about injury risk. Ok, fair. So then somebody has to explain to me how a QB who didn’t get hurt in college is a bigger injury risk than the guy with an actual injury history.
He stayed healthy over the likes of Rosen and even Mayfield.
Then, somebody explain to me how Allen, despite not even being the best QB in his own conference, has supporters saying stats are for losers, then turn around and slam Lamar Jackson’s completion percentage despite the fact that he is more accurate than Allen?
And THEN, somebody has to explain to me why somehow, someway, all these other QBs can get better, but Lamar somehow can’t?
That’s the thing that gets me the most. Somehow the golden boys can get better even though they were WORSE than Lamar on the actual field, yet Lamar can’t?
Last edited by Swish; 03/27/1810:07 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I dont think the problem was not getting an agent ... i have no probs with his moms as his agent now as theres really no negotiating ...
Not taking Vick’s help IMO is not at all related to not having an agent ... its simply a BAD DECISION ... not sure whose leading this train ... but that is one DUMB ASS DECISION ... and to me ... thats a lot scarier than not having an agent ...
Maybe ... whoever he is working with to prepare has given what IMO would also be HORRIBLE ADVICE and told them to not let any outside influences in and to listen strictly to them ...
This makes NO SENSE TO ME ... and i dont think it has a thing to do with moms as his agent ... this is more along the lines of NO COMMON SENSE ... and thats very very scary to me ..
I agree now that not getting an agent probably hurt him. At the time it made sense as far as rookie contracts go, but hey he tried something different and it didn’t work out.
But what does that have to do with ability on the field? Him not having a good interview as far as X’s and O’s Will be interesting to see play out.
Yeah. There's just a process that I think the Agents know and understand. These big name agents have seen it time and time again. They talk to the teams, they have strategies. And they want their names to be linked to these kids. It's a symbiotic relationship.
I really hope he's training under one of these QB guru types. Jordan Palmer. Or Chris Weinke. Or another one of these NFL Backups who makes a career out of this stuff, lol. I just can't find any information about it.
I always say, that if I'm one of these kids, I do whatever I can to meet one of these players/top coaches and simply ask them, "Hey, what do you think I should do?" And just do it.
In general, people aren't there to backstab you. Get the ear of someone in the business for a long long time who's been successful. Someone like Drew Brees, and just do whatever he tells you.
As I said, Mike Vick knows people. At the least, he can put Lamar in touch with someone, right now, who would love to give him some advice that can help him (which his Mother won't be able to give him)
I always find these guys that go without agents, at any level, get screwed over. They just do.
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Cause he certainly understood X’s and O’s When we watch the tape.
And so I’m just judging him based on the same criteria others have on QBs.
He ran pro style concepts at louville under petrino. So doesn’t that put him in the category of Rosen and Darnold?
Just talking pure passing ability, the only QB who put up better overall numbers was Mayfield. And I have hammered that point in with facts.
His throwing motion compared to the others is fine. His biggest issue is lower body mechanics. Can’t say that about Darnold.
I'm with it, but I don't see Darnold's upper body as much of a problem. He's a very accurate passer. More accurate than Lamar.
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People talk about injury risk. Ok, fair. So then somebody has to explain to me how a QB who didn’t get hurt in college is a bigger injury risk than the guy with an actual injury history.
He stayed healthy over the likes of Rosen and even Mayfield.
When has Mayfield been hurt? The only games I see he missed was his Freshman Year at Texas Tech. Mayfield played 4 years. Lamar only played 3. I don't think that's very fair.
Quote:
Then, somebody explain to me how Allen, despite not even being the best QB in his own conference, has supporters saying stats are for losers, then turn around and slam Lamar Jackson’s completion percentage despite the fact that he is more accurate than Allen?
Can't explain that one. Just people enamored by a rocket arm and the occasional big-time pass. But you only throw those rocket passes so many times a game.
I'd gladly take Jackson over Allen any day of the week and then some. As you said, Jackson played in a system with pro-style reads. And he's a far more accomplished passer than Allen.
I don't understand how folks are talking about how Allen would be top of the class, let alone ahead of Lamar Jackson.
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And THEN, somebody has to explain to me why somehow, someway, all these other QBs can get better, but Lamar somehow can’t?
That’s the thing that gets me the most. Somehow the golden boys can get better even though they were WORSE than Lamar on the actual field, yet Lamar can’t?
Oh, I agree. Lamar is a 1st round pick, and has a good chance to be successful in this league.
Anything about him being converted to a WR is just lazy.
While I prefer Rosen, Mayfield, and Darnold ahead of Jackson, it doesn't mean I think Jackson will suck or anything like that. Just, the skills that I value the most, those guys are ahead of Lamar.
Lamar is going to run much less then he did in college and the other prospects are going to be hit more often then they were in college.
Care to elaborate as to your crystal ball telling you what he is isn't going to do in the nfl?
No crystal ball here. Just deduction and past history.
How many of Lamar Jackson's run do you think were designed runs vs scrambles?
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
Quote:
Doesn't it seem more logically and accurate to say that despite his frame and despite the fact that Lamar has taken more hits then the other top QB prospects he's has not been injured.
Not when the hits are going to be bigger, harder, and faster in the NFL. Players who have never sustained injury in their entire life get hit and go out every other play in the NFL.
I think you are missing my point then. Because I actually agree. So if Allen and Rosen sustained major injuries in college when as you say the hits aren't as big, hard or fast as the NFL then why aren't the QBs that actually were injured in college as much or more of an injury risk then the QB that wasn't hurt despite sustain more hits then the QBs that got hurt.
My point is simple. It doesn't make sense to say that a QB without an injury history is more of an injury risk then QBs that have actually been injured.
Originally Posted By: willitevachange
There is not really a algorithm to predict injuries, however
Since you mention it there is predictive data for athletes based on prior injuries vs without injuries. Collecting medical data is a big/biggest reason why they have the combine.
Lamar idolizies Vick. So with him not linking up with Vick, at least since those reports came out, says that maybe they’re having a hard time linking up?
I’m guessing them being able to hook up would’ve been a lot easier with an agent than his mom.
Now, this is pure speculation on my part bro. But it COULD be that if you look at how Lamar was raised, his mom is strict. He grew up in a single family household because his dad died at a young age. It COULD Be that his mom doesn’t want him around someone like Vick, ya know, due to his history.
Again, pure speculation. But since it’s the mom and not an actual agent, those kinds of dynamics is something I have to consider with this whole situation. The mom isn’t gonna view things like a typical agent would. She will look at it from a more motherly perspective.
Unfortunately, that might be turning out for the worst.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
again, he's durable. im not calling mayfield an injury risk, but he has been hurt. lamar hasn't.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Unfortunately, that might be turning out for the worst.
Sure seems to be. I knew this was a bad idea. She doesn't have connections, she doesn't know the ins and outs. She's playing from behind.
Sometimes, tried and true, is tried and true for a reason.
I love my mom and know that she'll always be in my corner. I talk to her about all facets of my life. One of my top advisors.
But I sure as hell know that it might make sense to have another advisor as well. Especially in something that I don't know anything about (like getting drafted into the NFL). There's millions of dollars on the line here.
Im gonna project Lamar getting drafting in the best situation for him - to Jacksonville.
He will not have the instant pressure of having to compete to start - as Bortles will be the starter, so he can sit (for a little while at least). He will also get the benefit of that amazing defense to rely upon.
yea until they realize that lamar might already be better than bortles.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Maybe Lamar is working with someone credible and well contected behind the scenes...but imho an agent would have helped his draft process....a lot.
I really hope so. There's some folks really canning this guy as not a high talent.
I've maintained that Lamar Jackson's ranking by the NFL doesn't match his perception in this forum or from draft media as a whole. (the media thing I get, saying something outlandish about a prospect (even if they don't believe it) gets clicks and media draft or is still media)) Some people, lol, view him as WR conversion project or a mid-late round prospect.
A lot of draft media have been talking about this^^ segment.
But lost in the segment was this @1:34s: "One of the scouts said they would not be surprised if Lamar went top 10"
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Someone like the Chargers, Bills, Dolphins, Saints, Steelers, Cardinals, will select Lamar Jackson and will really luck out. Cause he can really play.
I was guessing earlier that I think Lamar wouldn't make it past the Cardinals. Their OC is Mike McCoy, an Erhardt-Perkins coach, same as Louisville, and McCoy has designed some creative offenses in the past.
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I just hate to see someone screw themselves out of money/draft position after all they accomplished and showed in college
Same here, and even though I think an agent would have helped who knows what he's doing behind the scenes *shrugs* At the end of the day though, agent or no......talent will out.
Someone like the Chargers, Bills, Dolphins, Saints, Steelers, Cardinals, will select Lamar Jackson and will really luck out. Cause he can really play.
I was guessing earlier that I think Lamar wouldn't make it past the Cardinals. Their OC is Mike McCoy is an Erhardt-Perkins coach, same as Louisville, and McCoy has designed some creative offenses in the past.
Oh, definitely. I don't think that teams like the Steelers and Saints are going to get him without trading up.
Cardinals are at 14, Bills are at 12, Dolphins at 11. That seems about right. I don't think the Broncos would take him at 5, but who knows.
I'll be very interested to see how many teams are at this pro-day. That'll say a lot. Cause a bunch went to see Josh Allen
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IAt the end of the day though, agent or no......talent will out.
I'm sure somebody will be there. Just don't be surprised if we only send Defensive coaches along with the FO as the guy they might be taking a big look at is Jaire Alexander, CB.
Lamar just doesn't seem to be in our wheel house this year. But he is gaining respect as a QB.
But a lot of bad grades in the interview stuff so far.
Are these "bad interview" takes coming from the football side or the media side?
I'll be the first to agree that he's not the best speaking in front of a camera. However, I think that is being subconsciously correlated with him on the whiteboard. Petrino is big on watching film and the X's and O's and Lamar was spending time in the VR headset, so I don't think his football knowledge is an issue.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
yea until they realize that lamar might already be better than bortles.
Could you imagine a Fournette Lamar RPO? I hope he goes there and not to Pittsburgh. I think if he goes to Jacksonville they will be a very early super bowl favorite.
JC: I was listening to Adam Schefter's Podcast this morning (the newest one, Browns interview with Jackson starts at 12:30 into the show), and he pretty much eliminated Lamar Jackson as a candidate.
This is unfortunate, but he almost went even further. Adam asked him why he thought this year's draft was better than last year's, and he said because this year there were four guys who would go in the first round, when last year there was only three.
Adam asked him about the big four, but not once did Hue mention Lamar. And Hue didn't fight to try to add Lamar in there.
Kind of sad to see. I think this guy is getting overlooked as a first round prospect
yea until they realize that lamar might already be better than bortles.
Could you imagine a Fournette Lamar RPO? I hope he goes there and not to Pittsburgh. I think if he goes to Jacksonville they will be a very early super bowl favorite.
SB favorites? I think Lamar will struggle his rookie year if he starts at all. Actually for those who really wishes him success he would be better off sitting a year. If he starts oh he might make some noise but he will simply be following what he does in the past and not learn to get better.
He might have a DAK type of season (I'm using him for Lamar's best case scenario) but Dak did not learn and he is actually struggling now. Jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Why is Dak his best case scenario and not Deshaun? Also, do you think Lamar Jackson could somehow be worse than Blake Bortles? They were already the 2nd best team in the AFC last year. I'm not sure how they're not SB favorites with THAT defense and a potential lethal offense. How do you stop Fournette and Jackson in an RPO offense, Eo? Do you stack the box against them if they're running their offense in a 10 or a 11 personnel set? Do you spy Jackson with someone and what position would you spy him with? Do you blitz him often or try to make him beat you with his arm?
If your offensive guru isn't a moron, you can script an offense around a QB who can only do a few things right. Look at how Doug Pederson called his offense with Foles and Carson. Or McVay with Goff. Doing simple things like only having them read 1 side of the field helps a ton.
Why not Watson? Well for the simple reason that we hardly got to see much of Watson play before he got hurt...oh wow what do you know a QB making a lot out of running gets hurt. Maybe he is a good example.
Actual I think Dak is really being complimentary of Lamar. Watson played how much, Dak played how much? Well that is why Dak n not Watson. Just what has Watson done? Get on the IR?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Why not Watson? Well for the simple reason that we hardly got to see much of Watson play before he got hurt...oh wow what do you know a QB making a lot out of running gets hurt. Maybe he is a good example.
Actual I think Dak is really being complimentary of Lamar. Watson played how much, Dak played how much? Well that is why Dak n not Watson. Just what has Watson done? Get on the IR?
"What's so good about a QB averaging 3 touchdowns a game?"
What are the similarities between Lamar and Dak that you see on the field? How are their games similar?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Posted by Mike Florio on March 29, 2018, 11:32 AM EDT
Quarterback Lamar Jackson decided that he didn’t need an agent. Some teams may be wishing he’d made a different decision.
Via Albert Breer of SI.com, NFL Network’s Mike Mayock said during the coverage of the Louisville Pro Day workout that teams are having trouble setting up workouts and meetings with Jackson. If Jackson had an agent (more accurately, a good agent), inability to communicate, coordinate, etc. wouldn’t be an issue.
This didn’t stop the Texans from setting up a private workout with Jackson, a curious move by both team and player given the presence of Deshaun Watson and the absence of a first- or second-round pick. But if other teams are having a hard time getting in touch with Jackson, that necessarily means he’s missing opportunities to make his case to be picked. Given his willingness to work out for the Texans, it’s safe to say he’s not being all that picky.
As a result, his Pro Day throwing session could be the last thing plenty of interested teams see from him. Which, given a so-so showing at the Scouting Combine, potentially raises the stakes.
Yeah, the rumors of his mom screwing things up might not be overstated
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
...
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