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Everyone thinks intelligence is important for a QB.
I haven't read a post from a single person that says intelligence is not important or valued.
I think people question (with good reason if you do the research) whether the wonderlic actually measures intelligence for QBs. And people also question whether the wonderlic has any predictive value.
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Typically, QB's are suppose to be one of the smartest players on the team. Obviously, that's not always the case. However, history shows the average QB needs a wonderlic score of 25+ to increase their odds of success in the NFL.
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Typically, QB's are suppose to be one of the smartest players on the team. Obviously, that's not always the case. However, history shows the average QB needs a wonderlic score of 25+ to increase their odds of success in the NFL. I would love to read where you got the above claim from.
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Fitz is lacking in physical talent ...  ... Well all righty then ...
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That was Ryan Fitzpatrick, not Minkah!
I would not be very concerned about Minkah's Wonderlic, whatever it may be. But I do want the guy leading the huddle to be smart, and until edromeo devises a better test, the Wonderlic is as good a gauge as we have to know whether our QB is smart.
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I swear posting in this forum is like playing telephone.
And like I said before there IS another test that half the league already uses called the AIQ.
Let me say this again.
Of course having a smart QB is important.
But do your research on the wonderlic before preaching about it.
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oooops yet again .... is on me ... *L* Sorry man .. my mistake ..
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Typically, QB's are suppose to be one of the smartest players on the team. Obviously, that's not always the case. However, history shows the average QB needs a wonderlic score of 25+ to increase their odds of success in the NFL. I would love to read where you got the above claim from.
"the average Super Bowl winning quarterback scored a 30.7. (That’s not counting Brady’s 33 five times or Eli Manning’s 39 twice either. If you did that the average score bumps up to 32.3)"
That’s statistically significant.
"the fact that Cam Newton and Derek Carr are the only successful NFL quarterbacks in the league right now with Wonderlic scores below 25 seems like a pretty significant data point to consider if you’re drafting a quarterback. "Scoring high doesn’t guarantee you’re going to be a Super Bowl winner — hello, Ryan Fitzpatrick — but scoring low does make it significantly more likely that you won’t be one. https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nfl-quarterback-wonderlic-scores-matter-a-great-deal-042417/
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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So Blaine Gabbert scored a 42? Is this for real? Also Deshaun Watson scored more touchdowns this year than he had points on the wonderlic lol
My biggest problem with these IQ tests is that they just measure the mathematical part of one's intelligence. While that part is extremely important, I would put a lot more emphasis on spatial intelligence aspect of IQ rather than logical reasoning. I wonder if the AIQ helps measure that.
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I read somewhere that NFL teams like your wonderlic to be higher the closer you are to the ball.. Centers and QB's high, WR and CB not so much.
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Those are interesting points but don't speak to the actual statement I was asking about. I just wanted to know if you had an actual source to your statement that history shows the average QB needs a wonderlic score of 25+ to increase their odds of success in the NFL.
Also, its hard to distinguish your comments from the article you quoted because you mixed them in together.
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http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/won...7g1kpu2nuasywkj"I can basically tell you, from what we see," said University of Louisville business school professor Frank Kuzmits, "it’s a huge waste of time and money."....However, other academics who have studied the Combine — while not as blunt as Kuzmits is — are as definitive about the lack of direct connection between that test and NFL success.
To be fair, though, says Michael Callans, Wonderlic’s vice president for research and development, teams are fully aware that they don’t paint a complete picture, and aren’t supposed to. They put the players’ test scores in proper perspective, no matter how much the scores get blown out of proportion by others You’ve probably never heard of the AIQ, and that’s by design; two teams are under contract with Bowman and Goldman’s company—Athletic Intelligence Measures—and purchase the rookie data in full. (The company does not disclose the names of its clients.) About a half dozen additional teams each year buy portions of the data (typically, the test scores for the Top 100 prospects on their boards). The company has administered more than 4,000 tests across each of the major American sports leagues, and started administering the test at the combine in 2012........“Years ago, we discovered the Wonderlic was the only test that was used to measure intelligence at the combine, and that was based off a theory from 1934,” Goldman says. “It’s language-dependent, and it has socioeconomic and cultural biases. So we spent years looking at all the forms of intelligence and cognitive abilities that impact unsolvable puzzles.”
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I read somewhere that NFL teams like your wonderlic to be higher the closer you are to the ball.. Centers and QB's high, WR and CB not so much. Garrett Bolles scored a 9 last year and got picked in the first round
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Well, I happen to think intelligence is a good thing to have as a QB.
Seems to me, some people dis the test and scores if whoever they are championing has a relatively low score.
Also which would you rather your QB have. Wonderlick Intelligence, or football intelligence.
I see no dummies here including Allen. Jackson is the only one that has a possible question mark and 13 is still no where near the lowest score.
But for some reason the top score by Allen is suppose to mean his football just got better?
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I said relatively low score - you figure out who that represents.
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Those are interesting points but don't speak to the actual statement I was asking about. I just wanted to know if you had an actual source to your statement that history shows the average QB needs a wonderlic score of 25+ to increase their odds of success in the NFL.
Also, its hard to distinguish your comments from the article you quoted because you mixed them in together.
That was the source. Those comments all came from the article.
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Those are interesting points but don't speak to the actual statement I was asking about. I just wanted to know if you had an actual source to your statement that history shows the average QB needs a wonderlic score of 25+ to increase their odds of success in the NFL.
Also, its hard to distinguish your comments from the article you quoted because you mixed them in together.
That was the source. Those comments all came from the article. No worries. But again you are mixing you interpretation of the comments in the article. Nevermind that the article is an opinion piece, a well supported opinion piece, but still any opinion piece. Some of the comments he makes are actually disputed by scientist that actually study this stuff for a living but that's neither here nor there. Maybe you didn't mean to represent the specific comments bolded in my first as a direct quote but that how you made it seem. Again. No worries just a mix up. This is the closet quote from the article: The truth is this, there is no dispositive test that proves what will make a successful quarterback in the NFL. But the fact that Cam Newton and Derek Carr are the only successful NFL quarterbacks in the league right now with Wonderlic scores below 25 seems like a pretty significant data point to consider if you’re drafting a quarterback.
Scoring high doesn’t guarantee you’re going to be a Super Bowl winner — hello, Ryan Fitzpatrick — but scoring low does make it significantly more likely that you won’t be one. I'm not even sure we disagree. The wonderlic is a piece of information. Whether it actually measures intelligence and has predictive value is disputed. But, here's my stance. Its important because players know they are gonna be tested on it. You can prepare for it. I posted a link earlier that showed Rosen agency had hooked him up (along with a bunch of other players) with a wonderlic prep specialist. I'm sure no one watched the video. To me its like the bench press. Does it measure functional football strength? Meh. But it does reveal how much work you put it.
Last edited by edromeo; 03/31/18 02:05 PM.
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Some of the comments he makes are actually disputed by scientist that actually study this stuff for a living but that's neither here nor there.
btw, did you just make that up???
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Some of the comments he makes are actually disputed by scientist that actually study this stuff for a living but that's neither here nor there.
btw, did you just make that up??? What do you think psychologists do?
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lol. My wife was a psychology major. I call it "Psycho-ology" cause it seems to the be the choice of most crazy people. Drives her nuts. I love that answer though
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J/C
I think the scores are important to a degree. It gives you a baseline of sorts, but in the end if the guy can play, he can play.
It probably helps with borderline players, borderline meaning do I take this guy or that guy, be it the first round of the 7th round.
If a guy has a good score, it might push him over the top. A bad one might lead you to pass.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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The scores are a data point. Nothing else.
Is there a direct correlation to NFL performance? No.
Is there some correlation? I would say yes.
I personally believe that some type of spatial awareness test would be more accurate (ex: Perhaps a test that is similar to the one they give fighter pilots to test their aptitude.)
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Only score that mattered was Lamar's, and he blew it.
Low scores are really a problem, IMHO.
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Only score that mattered was Lamar's, and he blew it.
Low scores are really a problem, IMHO. Couldn't agree more... Great scores make you say "hmmm..." Bad scores make you say "oh, no..."
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Well it's not like its a very hard test. I mean an average person should score at least a 20-25. It's not a total deal breaker but man it's a red flag when the score is THAT low. Having low cognitive ability means it can take a lot longer from someone to adapt and pick up on rapid changes.
Still he obviously plays football very well so you have to take it with a grain of salt. Maybe you just keep the offense simple and then add more over time. Then again I would do that with Any young QB.
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I believe Marino had the same score...my biggest concern with Jackson outside of accuracy was his white board reports. Its not like there are tricks or anything. Its point blank Football and the feel for football to have it as a part of you understanding the concepts and the purpose of the routes and what the goal is of a X's and O's back n forth.
I want my QB to be able to make his own plays and have his own knowledge of the game to be 4 plays ahead in setting a defender up! From all the reports I read, Lamar was not doing to well in that department.
I think that will be his undoing in the draft and in his success in the NFL.
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I believe Marino had the same score...my biggest concern with Jackson outside of accuracy was his white board reports. Its not like there are tricks or anything. Its point blank Football and the feel for football to have it as a part of you understanding the concepts and the purpose of the routes and what the goal is of a X's and O's back n forth.
I want my QB to be able to make his own plays and have his own knowledge of the game to be 4 plays ahead in setting a defender up! From all the reports I read, Lamar was not doing to well in that department.
I think that will be his undoing in the draft and in his success in the NFL.
jmho What you're describing is a major aspect of spatial intelligence, which isn't measured on the AIQ or Wonderlic.
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The idea that this test doesn't matter is crazy. The idea that this is proven by the fact that Ryan Fitzpatrick measures out as a genius, yet isn't a Hall of Famer is stupid.
Being smart makes you better at just about everything. Having physical talent (where Fitz is lacking) makes you better at sports. These are both good attributes. Hard to believe that needs to be stated.
Allen has the most physical talent of any QB in the draft. He is by far the smartest of the quarterbacks in the draft. The only qualities left are things like fundamentals, training and leadership/personality. These are important. But brains and athletic ability are a good thing in a QB. I am not an allen fan, but I agree with you on this statement. It absolutely lets you see how a QB may SEE and PROCESS things on the field. If FITZPATRICK wasn't a genius, maybe he doesn't last as long as he did in the league since he didn't have it physically. It absolutely gives you some insight, or they wouldn't do it.
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My link is right next to your Walsh said 1 out of 5 pass plays end up in a scramble. 
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I know...don't know the technical term you used...I call it football lol  What I'm saying is that part of Lamars process is more disturbing to me then the Wonderlick score. Not sure if there is a relation to it but I do know Marino knew the x's n o's but did not score high.
Also I think more emphasis has been made to the Wonderlic in our present era than in some of the past.
I forgot the one player who just ignored it totally and scored like a 7 or something.
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My link is right next to your Walsh said 1 out of 5 pass plays end up in a scramble. Lol, so you don't have a link or a source you're just going to spew for completely unsupported opinion and pass it off as something you heard on the internet? Um...okay. I find it quite interesting that Lamar by your account hasn't been good on the white board considering Mike Mayock reported that teams are having a hard time scheduling interviews and visits with him. How can he be poor on whiteboard when he hasn't been up on the whiteboard? Maybe you know something we don't. That's why I was asking for a link because I actually appreciate having as much information as possible. If you have a source/link post it...don't meltdown when asked about it. -Oh, and stop with the false equivalency. Just because you are ignorant of Bill Walsh's Book: Finding the Winning Edge. doesn't mean you get to lump your lack of source to arguably the best football book of all time.
Last edited by edromeo; 04/02/18 04:40 PM.
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What you're describing is a major aspect of spatial intelligence, which isn't measured on the AIQ or Wonderlic. At this point imho I don't think tab actually cares if its about the Wonderlic or not. He just likes takeing shots at Lamar Jackson because of tab's personal dislike for me.
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I believe Marino had the same score...my biggest concern with Jackson outside of accuracy was his white board reports. Its not like there are tricks or anything. Its point blank Football and the feel for football to have it as a part of you understanding the concepts and the purpose of the routes and what the goal is of a X's and O's back n forth.
I want my QB to be able to make his own plays and have his own knowledge of the game to be 4 plays ahead in setting a defender up! From all the reports I read, Lamar was not doing to well in that department.
I think that will be his undoing in the draft and in his success in the NFL.
jmho This day and age a QB with functional intelligence is required, its not because of the game, but the media pressure and exposure is so much bigger... In the past we could have QB's with low intelligence like Marino, QB's who love to party like Kozar, etc, but the game has changed. I'm not worried with Lammar being the QB, the problem is he being the face of the franchise. Not to be insulting, but the kid just looks lost.... And IMHO, sports knowledge has nothing to do with IQ... there are lots of really intelligent players in most sports that are has dumb has a door..
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If given the choice, without taking into account arm strength, accuracy, personality, etc:
A. The player scored a 40 on the wonderlic test
B. The Player scored a 15 on the wonderlic test
I'd prefer to have A
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft QB Wonderlic Scores
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