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With his holdout, Quinn ventures down perilous path Sunday, August 5, 2007 3:44 AM By James Walker THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH BEREA, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns receiver Travis Wilson weathered a contract holdout in 2006 and knows exactly what quarterback Brady Quinn is facing. "It was the longest week of my life," said Wilson, who held out three days and missed his four-day rookie orientation. "All you can do is stay positive." Wilson, a third-round draft pick, arrived in camp with high expectations but rarely played last season, catching two passes for 32 yards. He's still struggling to gain playing time a year later and competing for the third and fourth receiver spots. Their situations are different, but Wilson's story could serve as a blueprint for Quinn's rookie season -- especially considering the Browns' history. Quinn, a first-round pick, remains in a contract holdout -- currently 10 days. Wilson, William Green, Jeff Faine, Kellen Winslow Jr. and Braylon Edwards are a few on a long list of players who have held out and failed to produce right away. Green and Faine are no longer with the team, and the careers of Winslow and Edwards were slowed by season-ending injuries as rookies. Quinn said last week that he recognizes the trend but doesn't know whether it will apply to him. "I think it's something you have to wait and see what happens," the Dublin native said. "I'm in a situation where hopefully I can go in and be able to compete, play real well and hopefully win a starting job. My biggest thing I want to do now is focus and help the team in a positive way." What is Quinn's worth? But Quinn cannot help the Browns until both sides reach an agreement. Let's start with some reference points: Quinn was the No. 22 overall pick in the NFL draft. Safety Reggie Nelson, the No. 21 pick, signed with Jacksonville for $13.1 million, with $7.1 million guaranteed. The No. 24 pick, safety Brandon Meriweather, signed a reported $11.6 million deal, with $6 million guaranteed, with New England. Somewhere in between Nelson's and Meriweather's contracts (perhaps $12.5 million and $7 million guaranteed) is what Quinn is slotted to make. But his is not a normal contract negotiation. The Browns' quarterback situation is in flux, and Quinn had been projected to go higher. Despite his draft-day slide, he has a great chance to become a productive player within two years. If that's the case, No. 22 money for the most important position in football for the next five years could make Quinn underpaid for much of his contract. Quinn denied speculation that agent Tom Condon is asking for top-10 money. Quinn said the biggest holdup involves incentives in the deal's latter years. "We're not asking for anything outside of where I was taken," Quinn said. "I think from that standpoint, we're just looking for something you're worth as a starting quarterback in the league if indeed I do win the job." The Browns believe they're being reasonable. General manager Phil Savage said they understand there's a premium on quarterbacks in the NFL and have considered it in contract talks. "We have some flexibility," Savage said. "We've got to have some flexibility from the other side to get a deal done, and that is what negotiation is all about. It's to try to meet somewhere in the middle, where both parties can agree -- to sometimes disagree -- but get it done." Can Quinn buck the trend? Perhaps Quinn will be the exception, late for camp but still a productive starter for the Browns. But the odds aren't in his favor. Had Quinn made it to camp on time, he would have had every opportunity to win the starting job, coaches have said. Quinn received equal repetitions in June during minicamps with Frye and Anderson, neither of whom has shined in the first week of training camp. Quinn is working out twice a day in Tempe, Ariz., doing all he can to avoid the same fate as past Browns holdouts. Wilson in particular provided some encouraging advice. "Obviously, there's going to be fans out there that don't understand it and have it out for you, but that's just part of the game," Wilson said. "I would tell him just to be patient and ready to work when he comes in here. Block everything out and just do your job." jwalker@dispatch.comFor additional health information, visit OhioHealth
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For the record, I would have added this to an existing Quinn thread but they seem to be all locked or gone now.....
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Situation with Quinn sours positive vibes of nifty draft Sunday, August 5, 2007 8:26 AM By bob hunter What is an NFL season worth? To the Cleveland Browns, it's apparently worth less than the cash and incentives Brady Quinn's agent is asking for in excess of what a No. 22 pick would normally receive. To Quinn, it's apparently worth less than not having the guarantee he will be paid like a starting quarterback, if he is a starter, in the fourth and fifth years of his contract. Neither side has put it in those terms, but when they explain why they can't agree on a contract, that is, in effect, what they are saying. In the business model both sides are using, a lost season is simply the cost of doing business. The Browns thought their quarterback situation was desperate enough to give up their first-round pick in 2008 to draft Quinn, a Dublin native, at No. 22. It's a sign they believed Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson weren't the answer, and they needed help as soon as they could get it. So by failing to come to terms with Quinn, aren't they saying that the extra money, incentives, etc., are more important to them than getting Quinn into camp and giving him a shot at starting early in the season? The same holds true for Quinn's side. Every day he holds out -- so far he has missed five rookie-camp practices and eight regular ones -- the chances diminish that he will play a meaningful role this year. Is it worth it to him to throw away this year just to make sure he isn't underpaid in the fourth or fifth year of his contract? Isn't there a chance it might be worth settling for No. 22 money -- that's where he was drafted, after all -- to avoid standing on the sideline all season? An NFL source told The Plain Dealer on Friday that the two sides are only about $1 million apart in guaranteed salary, that the Browns are offering a five-year, $13.1 million contract with a $7.1 million signing bonus -- essentially what safety Reggie Nelson, the No. 21 pick, got. The sticking point is the incentives, where the sides are $2.5 million apart. It is a figure that could add $10 million to the total package, an amount the Browns reportedly want to link with achievements such as Pro Bowl appearances and titles. As is always the case, the fan is the one who ultimately pays the price. The fans came out of the NFL draft finally feeling good about where the Browns were headed. They proudly watched as their favorite team reacted calmly under draft-day pressure, first taking the sure pick -- Wisconsin offensive tackle Joe Thomas -- at No. 3, and then coolly trying to make a deal for another first-round pick as Quinn fell. When the Browns landed Quinn, a guy they considered at the top of the draft, at No. 22, it was the best of both worlds, a dream day for a team that seems to specialize in nightmares. Everyone knew negotiations could be difficult, but the hope was that the two sides would meet in the middle and Quinn would be there for the first day of training camp. So here we are. The fans' hopes of abrupt turnaround are fading fast. Regardless of which side is right, they are beginning to see a mess that looks an awful lot like the same old Browns. Charlie Frye back at quarterback. Right tackle Ryan Tucker out the first four games after flunking a steroid test. Defensive end Orpheus Roye out for the rest of training camp because of knee surgery. Meanwhile, Quinn works out in Arizona and Browns coach Romeo Crennel talks about "the quarterback," as if the guy who was supposed to be the future face of this beleaguered franchise were a desk or copying machine. Let's be clear: The chance of a rookie quarterback coming in, winning the job and leading the Browns to a successful season was never good, even if Quinn has been there from the first day of rookie camp. But it sure would have been nice to see him try. Bob Hunter is a sports columnist for The Dispatch. bhunter@dispatch.com For additional health information, visit OhioHealth
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Geez, Bob is laying the drama on thick. Quote:
Regardless of which side is right, they are beginning to see a mess that looks an awful lot like the same old Browns. Charlie Frye back at quarterback. Right tackle Ryan Tucker out the first four games after flunking a steroid test. Defensive end Orpheus Roye out for the rest of training camp because of knee surgery.
Those aren't exactly disasters. Stuff happens, Bob.
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j/c
Seeing as the hold up mainly consists of year 4 and 5 of the contract,...is it possible to do just a 3year deal? or maybe allow him to opt out of the the last 2 years of a 5 year deal?
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Quote:
j/c
Seeing as the hold up mainly consists of year 4 and 5 of the contract,...is it possible to do just a 3year deal? or maybe allow him to opt out of the the last 2 years of a 5 year deal?
I'm sure they have thought of that...but the browns never want to sign a 1st round rookie to a 3 year deal...its just not money friendly....i think the opting out option might be a good one...opting out if WHAT tho? he cant just do it cuz he feels like it....that would mean it's essentially a 3 year contract cuz he knows he will be the starting QB in year 3 for sure even if he sucks..n then ask for more money....i don't think tht would be in the best interest of the brownies
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Quote:
but the browns never want to sign a 1st round rookie to a 3 year deal...its just not money friendly...
Not just the Browns....no team ever wants to sign a first rounder to a 3 year deal, when the guaranteed money is a big chunk......they want to spread it out as much as they can.
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You never want to give ANY 1st rounder the opportunity to test free agency that soon. Granted, he'd still be a RFA because he'd have less than 4 years accrued, but still....ya don't want to let emhit that soon.... you want to keep them here as long as possible.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
j/c
Seeing as the hold up mainly consists of year 4 and 5 of the contract,...is it possible to do just a 3year deal? or maybe allow him to opt out of the the last 2 years of a 5 year deal?
I do not like the idea of developing him and then in three years gone in free agency.
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I think what the Browns have in mind with Quinn is to fix the Qb problem for the long haul. A 3 year contract is not what the Browns do with any rookie. They try to sign them to 5 year deals so if they become that impact player we will benefit from them instaed of letting them go to FA. I wasnt all that excited with the Quinn pick but if he does become the starter in 08 I want him here more than 3 years. JMHO.
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Beat me to it by a few seconds. 
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I know the Browns don't normally do 3 year deals with rookies, but I'm just trying to think of way to get him into camp while avoiding the risk of not having him signed at all...
As far as losing him after 3 years,....There going to have to resign him at some point anyways,......if he wants to leave he's going to.
The Browns have made it clear that they are very willing to pay what a player"s worth to them,....and they HAVE shown that already....I don't think the Browns will hesitate to pay him top $$$ down the road if he turns out to be the real deal
In the end,....BQ is going to go where the $$$ is,..he's already shown that about himself,....
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Quinn takes case to media BRADY QUINN By STEVE DOERSCHUK REPOSITORY SPORTS WRITER BEREA Browns holdout Brady Quinn took his case to the national media, telling ESPN he wants to pull on a Browns' uniform "so badly.'' In an on-camera interview from Arizona, where he is staying in shape at a training compound, Quinn said he is frustrated over slow negotiations that have kept him out of camp for eight days and 11 practices. "I get (the frustration) out when I'm running,'' Quinn said, as ESPN showed film clips of him doing high-tech exercises. Browns General Manager Phil Savage has gone public with insinuations Quinn's camp, headed by agent Tom Condon, has been unwilling to negotiate according to Quinn's draft status. "We're not asking for top-10 money," Quinn told ESPN. "I realize I was drafted in the 22nd spot." Quinn said his camp is shooting for "incentives reflecting what a starting quarterback would make if indeed I did achieve that status." That's a vague guideline. Logically, the incentive for a quarterback who starts for a 6-10 team should pay less than the incentive for a quarterback on a 10-6 playoff qualifier. Logically, a good quarterback shouldn't be penalized for losing with a bad supporting cast. Logically, the Browns can put an onus on Quinn, saying they have invested heavily in an offensive line overhaul and have three former high first-round picks (Jamal Lewis, Kellen Winslow, Braylon Edwards) in skill positions. Savage said talks have been slow but ongoing. "They answer their phone," Savage said. "Obviously there is two sides to every story, but I think that our track record would be fair and reasonable for the 2 1/2 years I've been here. "I think that there's only a handful of contracts that haven't been touched since Romeo (Crennel) and I have been here. I think that's an indication we're willing to do business, and we'll do business if we feel it's the right thing to do." Quinn says he'd be "ready to go tomorrow" if his contract got done. The Browns are saying Quinn's holdout sets him back no matter what kind of personal training he has done. "At this point, (the holdout) has been sort of a benefit to us because Charlie (Frye) and Derek (Anderson) have gotten all of the reps," Savage said. "When Brady comes back, I'm sure we'll have a plan (to fit his situation). Obviously we've gone through installations during the OTAs and minicamp, and now we've repeated that in training camp and that phase is over." Quinn grew up near Columbus. Playing for the Browns is a childhood dream. "I'm now realizing it's a business," he said. "You have to have a contract before you go in." Reach Repository sports writer Steve Doerschuk at (330) 580-8347 or e-mail: steve.doerschuk@cantonrep.com
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Quote:
"We're not asking for top-10 money," Quinn told ESPN. "I realize I was drafted in the 22nd spot."
Quinn said his camp is shooting for "incentives reflecting what a starting quarterback would make if indeed I did achieve that status."
That's a vague guideline.
......and didn't he just say that his agent handles the details and he doesn't know what the incentives are????? At least he realizes he was drafted #22.
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Savage said "Obviously we've gone through installations during the OTAs and minicamp, and now we've repeated that in training camp and that phase is over."
so the installation of the offense is over, everything here on out is review and gameplanning. There is no more time to "catch up"- well, maybe next year in the OTA's. 
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Quote:
Quote:
"We're not asking for top-10 money," Quinn told ESPN. "I realize I was drafted in the 22nd spot."
Quinn said his camp is shooting for "incentives reflecting what a starting quarterback would make if indeed I did achieve that status."
That's a vague guideline.
......and didn't he just say that his agent handles the details and he doesn't know what the incentives are????? At least he realizes he was drafted #22.
Quote:
Savage said "Obviously we've gone through installations during the OTAs and minicamp, and now we've repeated that in training camp and that phase is over."
so the installation of the offense is over, everything here on out is review and gameplanning. There is no more time to "catch up"- well, maybe next year in the OTA's.
Looks like it will be 'sink or swim' situation with either Charlie Frye or Derek Anderson, I would presume.
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I read " Steve Kings " article about Genes day in Canton , and then jumped to this story .. Kinda puts the todays Game iand players n perspective .
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just because quinn said he is not top ten money I would have just signed a contract for whatever they wanted after a 3 day holdout. I can't be as expensive as a top 10QB lol
Meh.
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Brady Quinn on draft day:
"It's not about the money... it was never about the money. How can you lose what you never had ?"
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I sorta wish Phil bended a few days ago and paid him his money. He's asking for a lot less than what I figured we would have to pay for him. May be Phil's trying to protect the slotting process or prove a point. But this guy would have been nice to see in camp. I wonder how far we were off originally before this long holdout started. Shoulda just given him number 19 or 20 money right off the bat and gotten him into camp. We just don't need to make this contract negotiation to turn into a pissing contest between Condon and Savage Then again, it's not my millions 
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Quote:
In an on-camera interview from Arizona
Compare this to the Calvin Johnson holdout. Johnson wanted to get into camp so badly that he was working out in Detroit for at least 3 days prior to signing his contract. Then all he had to do was drive practice. If Brady really wanted to get into camp he would be in Cleveland working out ready to go at a moments notice. I don't know but I would bet he could find a gym and workout facility in Cleveland. Maybe even a personal trainer.
Procrastination is caused by the fear of success
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Quote:
Quote:
In an on-camera interview from Arizona
Compare this to the Calvin Johnson holdout. Johnson wanted to get into camp so badly that he was working out in Detroit for at least 3 days prior to signing his contract. Then all he had to do was drive practice. If Brady really wanted to get into camp he would be in Cleveland working out ready to go at a moments notice. I don't know but I would bet he could find a gym and workout facility in Cleveland. Maybe even a personal trainer.
I'm pretty Anti-Quinn right now, but even I think this is picking nits. If the dude has his set up in Arizona and he's comfortable working out there, then it doesn't really matter to me that it's not in Ohio. Five hours from when the contract is worked out, he could be in Berea. You know, if a contract is worked out,,, 
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Just points out an attitude difference between the 2 players. Quinn says he is anxious to go but what has he done to show that - nothing. Actions speak louder than words. And though this action might be a nit, to me it would go a long way toward improving the good will toward him.
You say you are very anti-Quinn. I don't feel that I am. Though I am becoming more and more anti-Quinn everyday.
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Quote:
...so the installation of the offense is over, everything here on out is review and gameplanning.
Review and game planning for the Steelers.
#gmstrong
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I for one am tired of all of the out right crap about this topic... We all knew or should have that this was going to happen...
I have two words and a very good, recent example for everyone here who thinks that BQ not doing what is best for him and the team long term... Matt Lienhart.
Lets hope BQ's deal get done ASAP and the useless BS can stop...
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Quote:
I for one am tired of all of the out right crap about this topic...
Indeed. I've read just about every post of every thread about this and it's like some fans have never seen a first round negotiation before. Let the FO & Condon do their jobs, for crying out loud. All this media posturing is just that, media posturing. Seems like everyone is missing the damn point. They are close. The deal will get done. Brady shouldn't, wouldn't or won't start right away, anyway. I don't care that he's not getting reps right now. He would suck too, then we'd have three QBs to moan about. It's a new system, they're in the middle of two-a-days, it's hot, they're not sharp but at least Charlie & Anderson are getting a decent amount of reps, are improving, and are learning the system. One of those two guys is going to start the season, and one of those two guys will most likely finish the season. Brady will get his deal done, come in and learn and contribute in any way he can... as the 3rd stringer. As it should be. I really don't understand the ire, angst, confusion, anger and hate from some of the fans. It really makes no sense. It's irrelevant, foot stomping, tantrum throwing. It's useless and counterproductive and is done in many cases simply to make the complainer feel better about themselves by trashing our top QB pick, his agent and the entire process. Not to discount or minimalize all the legitimate, intelligent discussions taking place, but it is what it is and we just have to deal with it. He'll be here when the FO has a contract signed that both parties agree to and not a minute sooner. Anything said in the press or postulated beyond the fact that they're close and still talking is immaterial, IMHO.
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#gmstrong
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So, we're less than a million apart in negotiations, Condon wants #20 money.
I hate to say a million dollars is "measly" since I've never seen that much money at once, but if that's all that's holding us up, I don't see why it's taking so long.
Just pay the man and get him in.
Last edited by Ammo; 08/05/07 04:42 PM.
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Chiefs | Bowe signed
Sun, 5 Aug 2007 12:24:37 -0700 KFFl.com
Jason King, of the Kansas City Star, reports the Kansas City Chiefs have signed first-round draft choice WR Dwayne Bowe to a five-year deal. Financial terms were not disclosed.
Maybe this will help ...
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Quote:
I hate to say a million dollars is "measly" since I've never seen that much money at once, but if that's all that's holding us up, I don't see why it's taking so long.
From a story further up the page...
"The sticking point is the incentives, where the sides are $2.5 million apart. It is a figure that could add $10 million to the total package, an amount the Browns reportedly want to link with achievements such as Pro Bowl appearances and titles."
#gmstrong
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good post cal. I'm not too worried about his holdout for same reasons you stated. It'll get done, he wasn't gonna start anyways and besides, maybe CF wil be better than we think.
Who knows with this team? It's always crazy stuff happening.
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Quote:
good post cal. I'm not too worried about his holdout for same reasons you stated. It'll get done, he wasn't gonna start anyways and besides, maybe CF wil be better than we think.
Who knows with this team? It's always crazy stuff happening.
It sucks though, the waiting for him to sign, going back on websites just to see if he signed finally, its starting to get to a point where the holdout is too long, the sides need to get together and get this damn deal done.
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Quote:
May be Phil's trying to protect the slotting process or prove a point.
Hi Petey.
IMHO, it's more likely this: Phil has already projected the cost(s) of hiring Quinn now, AND paying him in years 4&5... and is working the numbers to not get us burned with the salray cap .
We still have to pay all our other players, and there's nothing like a little "mad money" left over for rainy day situations (or unseen FA windfall opportunities.) As was quoted by ddubia just 3 posts previous, we're talking about potentially 10 million dollars worth of diff... and it all hinges on the talks going on now.
As much fun as it would be to see Quinn in the playoffs or Pro Bowl, it would be even more fun to know he's doing it for money that isn't hurting us somewhere else.
Far better to practice an ounce of prevention now.... rather than have to swallow a pound of cure later. Are you willing to see someone like JoeT, Kam or Winslow go because we simply can't afford to keep them AND Quinn?
Slow and steady, Phil... git'er done, but git'er done smart...
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Quote:
So, we're less than a million apart in negotiations, Condon wants #20 money.
I hate to say a million dollars is "measly" since I've never seen that much money at once, but if that's all that's holding us up, I don't see why it's taking so long.
When they say "million", they mean per year over the life of the contract -- so, 5 million.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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j/c Quote:
"They answer their phone," Savage said. "Obviously there is two sides to every story, but I think that our track record would be fair and reasonable for the 2 1/2 years I've been here.
Yes Phil,your track record is plain.
You've drafted four first rounders in three drafts. Two were signed on time and this makes the second hold out by first rounders.
Your record of "signing first rounders on time" is 50%.
You're doing your best to look out for "The Browns" and Condin and Quinn are also looking out for their best interest and what they think is a "fair deal". It's "strictly business" by both sides. Not good guy verses bad guy.
It's really that simple....................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
You've drafted four first rounders in three drafts. Two were signed on time and this makes the second hold out by first rounders.
Your record of "signing first rounders on time" is 50%.
I don't for the life of me know why I'm getting into this. Hopefully I'll get out just as quickly.
Obviously Phil is not talking about his 1st round selections holding out or not.
I believe what he is saying is that he has been fair with all of them. We don't know, but in the end, what may have gotten two of them in on time and the Braylon to end his holdout sooner rather than later is Phil breaking impasse and giving in on reasonable requests.
Remember, Savage stepped up and nixed the clause in the Edwards contract that gave the Browns full rights in the marketing decision regarding Brayon that John Collins scratched into the contract at the last minute.
What I think I hear him saying between the lines is that the Quinn camp is perhaps being unreasonable in their demands and won't budge or give an inch.
It may look like it's the Browns who won't give in to reasonable requests but I think Phil is saying he has a track record of doing just that to get his player in camp. And he believe he has done the same thing with the Quinn negotiations but Condom won't budge and is holding out for their first and highest demands.
That's what I think he is saying.
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Legend
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Well,I think both sides are doing NOTHING more than "media posturing" and really not "saying" much of anything of real "substance",in an attempt to win over public opinion.
It's an old trick that been used for a long time now. Each side is trying to get "public opinion in their corner" to help apply pressure to the other side.
I'm not faulting Phil for using every tool at his disposal and this IS one of them. He's just doing his job. But it is what it is......
Like I said.............strictly business. No good guy,no bad guy.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree Pitt, and in the end it doesn't mean anything, becuase Quinn is going to sign within the next 2 weeks, and he'll be our starter by week 10. I really don't know why everybody takes the business end of football so seriously and demonize guys or teams for trying to get the best for their personal interests. The only thing negative about this (although imo it's going to be a positive, but I digress) is that BQ will not start week 1. However, by week 10 Brady is the QB for the forseeable future, and the rest will be forgotten..............except by those with an agenda, and mensa and soup who will still be chanting for Charlie at every chance...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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..............except by those with an agenda, and mensa and soup who will still be chanting for Charlie at every chance...lol.
So Mensa and Soup are backing a QB already on the team and working to get better and that's bad in what way?
Last I looked, Frye was the starter of the Browns and a Browns player, and backing a Browns player was a good thing.
Agenda? Look in the mirror
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2nd String
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Quote:
Brady Quinn on draft day:
"It's not about the money... it was never about the money. How can you lose what you never had ?"
qft
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1st String
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1st String
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Quote:
So Mensa and Soup are backing a QB already on the team and working to get better and that's bad in what way?
Well it should be obvious that they are backing a QB that is of backup caliber, always has been and always will be.
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Last I looked, Frye was the starter of the Browns
Was, is the key word here. When a true fanchise QB gets to camp that will be history! 
Just wait till next season, I have heard that for over 40 years!
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum With his holdout, Quinn ventures
down perilous path
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