DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Justin Reid

Being honest, do you think Justin Reid's fall was because his brother is a kneeler?

Never mind that he got taken by the warden.

Most likely. It's pretty obvious that the NFL has blackballed Kaep and Eric because of the kneeling.

If so, shame on those GM's.

I hope so. I think they should throw every player out of the league that took a knee last year.

#snowflake

Seriously? Why? Because they're trying to raise awareness for their cause? Maybe you don't agree with their cause, but you have to know that kneeling during the anthem is all about getting attention for a cause that wouldn't get the same kind of attention as if they kneeled during commercial break.

Get real dude. Anyone who has a problem with kneeling during the anthem is because ignorant people told you to be offended by it, because ignorance has you believing they're disrespecting the flag and the troops.

Yet, if you would listen to truths, you would know that their kneeling has nothing to do with the flag or the troops.

... And that's all I have to say about that.

Well, you know, Murica!

Thanks for your service!

I too would be upset at disrespecting the military and flag. But I disagree that it's what they were doing. In my opinion, they weren't disrespecting anything. I believe the announcer says "Please rise for the National Anthem". Not "You MUST rise for the National Anthem".

And what about everyone at home? Do they stand for the National Anthem?

Point is, they're not targeting the flag or the military. I'm not sure where that false narrative started, but it just isn't true. And they'd tell you that if anyone would listen. I think.

I have no idea what the "Kill Pigs" socks are. But if anyone was wearing those, then yeah I have a problem with that.

In my eyes, we have the right to protest in this country, peacefully, and that's what they're doing. They belong to a union... and unions protest all the time! So those saying they're at work and should protest on their own time, clearly haven't thought that one out.

i certainly hope not, but ya never know.

i love how people feel like they're standing up for the military by trying to make this about the military.

i specially love that despite the fact that a ton of combat vets like myself make it highly known we aren't offended, and that Kaep got advice from a special forces soldier, people only love talking about the military when its in response to something they dont like.

it reminds me of the whole native american logo situation.

"the logos are offensive to native americans!!"

actual native americans:

"we're not really offended"

"umm....ummm... its still offensive to native americans!!"

I don't know that he fell because we don't know how the teams had him rated. The so called experts had him rated as a 2nd rnd pick and he went just a few picks into the 3rd rnd so he didn't tumble much according to them.

That's a reference to socks Kaepernick wore at a practice. They didn't say "Kill pigs", they were socks depicting police as pigs. Given his public position on the subject, they were (almost certainly) intended to be an insult to police officers.

I still don't get how the military get linked to the protest. That's a huge red herring in that cause. Unless those cartoon pigs are Military Police of course.

This protest was never about the military, its social activism with just cause. And if you don't like it, you are attacking the very constitution that the military fight to preserve which is what Swish has been telling everyone.

Kaep and Reid have been absolutely blackballed for this and history will judge them very differently to how the owners have judged them present day.....particularly with so many drug using, wife beating, gun toting felonists in the players ranks who get work. I think our priorities are all wrong.

So you would deny citizens their right to protest peacefully... That's against all we as a county believe in

U know what don’t add up to me here .... and i dont believe there blackballing Reid cause of his bro ... that makes no sense to me ... these guys wanna win and this dudes done nothing wrong ..... but u never know with this group ... I wouldn’t put anything past these guys ...

Anyhow what i don’t get ... and this has nothing to do with how U or I feel about it ... it’s strictly the message their putting out ...

There clearly blackballing Kap cause of the kneeling ... their’s no doubt ... So the message their is that the kneeling has hurt our business and we don’t want you in the league because your the leader ...

Then they have DONE NOTHING to make it stop during the anthem on a weekly basis since it started ... the message there is that the kneeling during the anthem is OK ...

That makes no sense to me ... the math here just dont add up ... as u well know i’m one of the boards finest mathameticians ... ..

Why would u blackball someone for being the leader of the anthem kneeling movement while letting the current players continue that behavior ....

Talking about your conflicting messages ...

That's not quite the same thing.

If the NFL were to require (as part of their code of conduct) that every one stand during the anthem, no kneeling or sitting, then as an employer it is their right to do so. They would not be denying the players' right to protest, they would be saying that if they chose to protest then they cannot work for the NFL.

There is no right to employment, so in this hypothetical there is no denying of rights.

It's like that case where the guy who got his face tattooed was let go by his law firm. Part of the dress code stated no visible tattoos. He tried to sue because the tattoo fell under the freedom of expression. Courts ruled that it did, but he was not denied any rights because of the tattoo. Because the "right to employment" does not exist.

I agree with you. Regardless on our difference, we st least agree that teams seem to be highly selective on who they black ball.

And it orriginated in San Fran.

I mean bro we saw the whole jaguars team pull it. Is it different because we saw their owner join in the protest one time? None of the jag players got black balled.

I mean our own players did, and while they all suck talent wise, nobody got black balled.

My only theory that makes sense is that the NFL can’t come up with a rule against simply because that will most certainly come off as trying to restrict freedom of speech, but maybe hey think buy black balling kaep and Reid, maybe it’s cutting the head off the snake?

Honestly that’s all I have. Cause if you remember, Marshall Lynch has been sitting for the anthem damn near his entire career, and pretty much nobody says anything about it.

What part of .... THEIR AT WORK ... don’t u understand ....

I don’t care how u feel about it ... they just cant do what they want when their at work ..

So QUIT bringing that BS up ... its IRRELIVENT to this debate ....

Another one of u menZas compared it to a UNION STRIKE ... i almost peed my pants when i read that .... they have ZERO IN COMMON starting with the fact that one is protesting a social injustice while the other is tottaly SELF DRIVEN as unions always strike for more money/benefits and/or working conditions ...

One is done to benifit others not the participants themselves ... the other is done to benifit the participants ....

I don’t WHY or what the NFL owners are thinking Swish ... I sure as all hell cant make sense of it ...

I wonder if it caught on cause it was Frisco .... then again Oaklands right across the bay ...

I wonder of its cause no one really shined a light on it when Lynch did it ... I wasn’t even aware he had been doing it his entire career until they brought it up after Kap became the focal point ...

I wonder why it “blew” up when Kap did it ... thats an interesting question ...

U mentioned the jags .. i almost mentioned it in my last post .. as far as i know ... NFL owners looks an awful lot the “good ole boys” network as far as i know ... I don’t think the jags owner fits that profile ... *L* ... i wonder if thats why he did it as opposed to say Jerry or the douche from the Texans ..

Anyone know what the racial make up of nfl owners is? ... how many minorities ... how many blacks ...

If i had to guess I think the owners now are afraid to do anything ... it got so big so fast it got out of hand ... now there afraid cause no matter what they do there gonna pee off what seems like 50% of their customers .... its all I can figure out ...

To me its a real tough problem with a real simple solution ... and theres no good solutions at this point IMO ... keep the players in the locker room until after the anthem ...

THEN ... they had that meeting last year ... witch i thought was a GREAT IDEA ... look ... i dont like it ... to me its disrespects my brothers that died for this country ... we dont agree .. i can respect your viewpoint ... i have brothers that feel like u do ... I GET IT .. please show some understanding for my views .. its not like my view and many many others is illogical or a whacko view ...

Anyhow ... the meeting was a great idea ... i dont like the manner in witch their protesting but im all for discussing and moving their cause forward ... its a GREAT CAUSE just the WRONG form of protest for me ...

From what i can tell ... NOTHING SUSTAINABLE came from it ... if it did .. the nfl needs to do a BETTER JOB GETTING THAT MESSAGE OUT ...

Now ... they should be putting together events with nfl players, police and inner city kids ... they should be going to schools ... police and players ..

Nfl should donate turkeys for thanksgiving and have players and cops go door to door handing them out ...

Thats what i want to see ... that’s HELPING and getting it in the public eye in a POSITIVE MANNER ...

This country is SO THIRSTY for a story like that we can all come together on ... at least IMO ...

So far i’ve Seen very little to no results from the kneeling other than peeing off a lot of people .. HOPEFULLY theres more tangible results out there and HOPEFULLY moving forward we can get past the kneeling and start addressing the real problems together as opposed to standing toe to toe over the method of protest ...

Please educate me if i’m Missing something and their’s actually some tangible good coming from this ...

And here it is. The NFL would lose half of its fanbase if they banned kneeling outright. I would no longer be a fan of the Browns if the NFL banned kneeling. It's not a discussion that they wish to have in the public eye, but rather one they would rather workout internally. That's why they had a meeting between players and owners last Fall on how to stop players from kneeling. A lot of people said that the meeting between the NFL and the players was very constructive. And that meeting must have been somewhat successful considering only 20 players knelt in week 17 vs. 180 players in week 3. The question now is how do you discourage players from kneeling, without explicitly stating so. The answer is to blackball the two leaders of the protests and have the players fall in line that way. They're essentially saying that you cannot be too talented to avoid the consequences of kneeling.

To go back to the NFL meeting real quickly, the Failing NYT did release a secretly recorded audio of the meeting. In one of the recordings, you can hear Eric Reid press multiple owners about Kaeprnick's employment and how the NFL has made Kaep public enemy #1. Well, here we are 7 months later, and Eric Reid has gotten one call in that time while Kaep has received zero calls. It's pretty obvious what the NFL is doing and why they are doing it this way. Blackballing might be shady, but it's a much quieter way to end the protest than outright banning kneeling.

But they're still both protests right?

So when a protest is for selfish reasons, it's ok. When a protest is for social awareness and betterment, it's wrong.

Got it. Nice point.

Does the NFL or any team have a code that doesn't allow players to voice their own opinions?

yo swish

Thats what i meant .... *L* ...

That makes a lot of sense CHS ... i can get on board with that .... makes perfect sense ... the owners are scared ...

What do u think of keeping them in the locker room ... actually ... your solution is way better ... they need to find a way to get the kneeling to stop by caving to the players ... its not something i’m A fan of ... but at this point ... it’d be well worth the money they’d have to throw at it ... plus it would HOPEFULLY ACCOMPLISH SOMETHING POSITIVE that actually addresses the issues ...

They need to negotiate a deal where the nfl gives a boatload of money and hold events and Kap and reid get shots NOW (they need to tie that in cause there gonna lose a ton in the Kap lawsuit) .. the players have to give a combo of time and money ... they need to attend the events the nfl sets up ... they also need to do things on their own ... they need to participate in their cause and it would go along way in appeasing my side ...

And as u stated ... the goal is to lose as few as possible now ... so there needs to be something in it for both sides ....

Wonder if there talking about something like that ....

U got any thoughts on solutions? ...

A STRIKE is not even remotely close to what a PROTEST is ...

How’s that for a point ... ... and theres a bunch more where that one came from ..

I can only handle u in really really small doses ... this is enough for a lONG LONG LONG TIME ... Bye Bye ....

Have fun and enjoy!

Now go ahead and get the last shot in ...

I am sure there is a limit to what any employer would find acceptable. There are a lot of things I can say or do that I can call "opinions" that could get me fired.

you posted a lot of good stuff, so imma try to break stuff down as best as i can.

you pretty much nailed the counter point, which is lynch is right there in oakland, a rocks throw from san fran, so again, it makes no sense why lynch pretty much got untouched.

remember, he's been doing that way before kaep, so i dunno. i simply dont know whats up with that.

i dont think there's any black owners, and as far as i'm aware, the only minority is indeed the jags owner.

as far as your solution goes....i think what gets lost in translation in all of this is the fact that the players weren't even required to be out for the anthem until 2009.

then come to find out that the government was essentially paying the nfl for displays of military patriotism.

so if we go back to origins, what ended up happening was somebody decided to fix something that wasn't broken, and then a few years later, chaos happened.

so your solution is just to go back to the old system. i agree with it. we can still have the jets fly over the stadium and such (dude i love it everytime i see it), without the cameras on the players waiting for somebody to kneel.

and look, i understand the pro-standing views. i really do. as somebody who actually served, i could never kneel myself. just can't do it.

but you also have to understand my views if i'm to accept yours.

i'm not (wasn't) a civilian. so you have to understand that from my perspective, the whole bashing players for kneeling is confusing to me.

everyone loves to say that we fought for people's rights and everything....

so wouldn't it be MORE disrespectful if civilians didn't use said rights? because if we're trying to restrict rights, then my brothers and myself deployed for no reason.

you get that right?

if you remember in the chaotic charlottsville thread, i was ticked off for sure, but never once did i claim that nazis didn't have a right to protest. they do, as much as they disgust me.

and thats what you conservatives and moderates were saying as well. "well, i dont agree with them, but they have a right to protest"

i agree completely, which is why i'm confused that so many people are understanding of nazi's rights, but want to restrict players rights to protest, NOT over trying to say they are superior to anyone, but for equality.

you are receiving one message, and i'm receiving a completely different one.

as far as outreach, bro nfl players are up in down in the community. they are always doing projects, visiting schools, donating money. thats facts bro. a ton of players absolutely donate their time and money.

but everybody thinks if they aren't doing what JJ watt did, then they aren't doing anything. thats simply not the case.

the good i see from it is that its forcing people to have the conversation about what the players are protesting over. for better or worse, we at least are having the convo. just from that standpoint alone, its mission accomplished.

i think the owners really need to be lockstep on SOMETHING. cause they are divided as well.

i mean look at jerry jones. he kneeled with his players, despite being in the media trying to play both sides. we can say a lot of things about jones, but one thing we have to say is that he ride or dies for his players. he sticks up for them cause he views them as family.

but then you got guys like the texans owner. and come on bro, he makes comments as if he views his players as property. its weird.

yea did you hear the leaked audio of chris long sticking up for the players?

it seems as if most nfl owners are concerned about their players, but there are some guys in there that are so hardline, i have to wonder how much the understanding between owners and players last.

the best way for the players to stop kneeling is for us as a nation to really address this police situation.

cause as you know, it might affect AA's more, but every race is getting into issues with the police as far as shootings/abuses.

While it's nice to think that Shahid Khan is a liberal because he's brown and from Pakistan, it's extremely incorrect and problematic. Shahid Khan is a Republican. He's donated over a million dollars to Trump. As to why Shahid showed solidarity (he didn't kneel) well, let's look at the venue he did it in. Shahid showed his solidarity in the UK at Wembley Stadium, which at the time, he was in negotiations to buy (He recently bid 1 billion dollars for the stadium, if anyone is curious to see how much Wembley costs). I think what Shahid did was a PR act done to grease the wheels of a future business deal.

Definition of "Strike" has the word "Protest" in it.

noun
1.
a refusal to work organized by a body of employees as a form of protest, typically in an attempt to gain a concession or concessions from their employer.

How's that for a last shot? Drops mic...walks away

I don't think there is a clear cut answer because NFL players are just 3rd rate celebrities and have no political power. I'm not sure what celebrities can do for the situation besides spreading the word. LeBron and the Cavs have done far more than the Browns have done for these issues, but what has that done? Has LeBron being outspoken stopped any cop from shooting an unarmed person? If LeBron's impact on the politics is minimal then I'm not sure what a bunch of rookies in pads are going to do? I think the larger problem is how we have a cult of celebrity where we (on either side) expect celebrities to be politicians and to save us.

I think in terms of kneeling, NFL players have little recourse to do anything else. The NFL has always been a "team game" and acts of individuality (celebrations, freedom to choose cleats, writing of undershirts) have been banned in the past for the good of the sport. So the individual player has very little room to speak about these things in the game or before the game opposed to the NBA who banned protests during the anthem in the 90's, but have allowed their players much more freedom in what they can wear. imo, seeing all the NBA players in "I Can't Breathe" t-shirts was much more powerful than people kneeling. However, I think the NFL owners would get physically ill if they saw their players doing something like that. So, I'm not sure there is a solution for everyone. On one hand, the players want to speak out about causes that matter to them on a platform that they've worked hard to get to. On the other hand, some speech can alienate a customer base, and make an owner lose money. I hope we do not see a case of police abuse that is so egregious that it wins over both the owners and the players and they feel the need to use their platform to speak on it.

Quite frankly, what I would love to see is the Browns players using their praxis to protest the ownership of the Browns by a crook, who would be a felon if his brother wasn't a governor, and decide to seize the means of production and organize collective ownership of the Browns from the lowliest of production assistants, to the players themselves, to ushers and beer vendors like Jabrill Peppers That's the only solution I can think of that would be good for the league

Yep. And we can't count on NFL players to do that for us as they are not politicians, and I'm not sure how many players even majored in Poly Sci, Criminal Justice or Law Enforcement and Public Safety, but I would guess that it's few to none. Instead of NFL players, we need people who know what they're talking about to take lead.

And yep, happens no matter what color you are. Just the other month a LEO shot an unarmed 16 year old white kid in the back of a courthouse in Columbus. The kid was at his arrangement and his Grandmother and Mom were told to get their things and leave by the court sheriff. The Sheriff then tries to quickly coral them out of their seats, well the kid doesn't like that the Sheriff is talking to his Mother in such a way and decides to confront the Sheriff. At that point the Sheriff shoots the kid in the abdomen and calls for police back up immediately. By the time the kid is getting rushed to the hospital 20 minutes after the gunshot, he's bled out and has died. It's sad to see the kid's life go that way. Of course, he was in court for a weapons charge, and Columbus doesn't have a pro sports team, so the kid is forgotten except by the stat keepers. I don't know what needs to happen or have all the answers, but I do believe that Kid deserved better that day.

No wonder why theres never any group pics ... *L* ...

Man ... in todays PC society ... how does that not come up more ... thats shocking to me ...



I loved that stuff ... got goosebumps with the military families out there being honored and all the soldjiers holding that big ass flag ... i loved it ... sounds like u did to ...

Then i found out the nfl charged for it ... i was so PEED OFF ... when i saw it after that it MADE ME SICK ....



Ya ... those fly overs ROCK ... still get goosebumps with those ....

I think keeping them in the locker room is the “safest” solution ... well i did ... i like what CHS said .... sorry CHS as i’m Sure that makes your skin crawl ... *L* ....

They need to find a way to get the kneeling to stop w/o telling them to ....

Hopefully theres enough progress made that theirs no kneeling next year ....



I led with the fact i accept your views when i started talking about this ... i do accept your views ...

U addressed it later ... i’m Gonna adress it now from my viewpoint ...

U and i have posted to each other about this 50 - 75 times but this is the first time we’ve ever talked about it and had a conversation about it as opposed to just going BAM BAM BAM ....



Ya, i get it ... 100% ...



I’m not going to get into the work vs free time stuff ... not the intent of this discussion IMO ...

To make it short and sweet ... i agree with the players right to protest ... i just dont agree with how they choose to do it ... it saddens and sickens me .... possibly the best way to sum it up for me ...

Its like the dude burning the flag ... i served for his right to burn it ... and i would defend his right to do it til this day .... i would also be appaled and sickened by it and 20 years ago when i wore a younger mans clothes i more than likely have been the dude trying like hell to stop him from burning it ... we’d scuffle over the flag ... even though i’d Defend his right to do it ...

U figure that one out ...



I think the NFL does a pee poor job getting those stories out ... we here about arrests on what seems like a weekly basis all year round .. and it seems like once every 6 - 8 weeks its domestic violence ... the NLF needs to PROMOTE the good .... lord only knows the media keeps us well informed of the bad ...

BUT for me ... and what their doing is AWESOME ... BUT they need to tie it to the police ... the problem is with the police ... so get the police involved ... the best way to solve this problem is INTERACTION especially with the KIDS ...

An nfl player brings some cops with him to a school .. has them volunteer and help out at their summer football clinics ... runs a charity event, lets say a cook out and concert with nfl players and cops as volunteers doing everything from being ushers to the cooking and serving of the food and drinks ...

To me ... thats what the result needs to be ... with U and I chipping in SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR OURS ....



I’m an actions speak louder than words kinda guy .... talks cheap .. lets do something to get the cops involved with kids ... to me ... thats the SOLUTION ...

Yours? ...



Jones did it the week after Mr. President ran his mouth about the kneeling ... that brought a lot of folks together for some reason ... *LOL* ....

Jones is a loyal ass guy .. to is players and coaches ... your correct about that .... there was “extenuating” circumstances that week .... thank god his egos so big and he thinks he knows more than he does ... *L* ...



Hes a racist old man ... He should be put out to pasture ...

No use for him or his ilk ...

Well, I'm sure there is a limit also, but does it cover them (the players/employees)to the point of causing them to forfeit their rights?

That's what I want to know.

J/C ......

The NFL is as much a public relations business as it is a sports enterprise. Teams want too win, but they also (and maybe more) want butts in the seats, people watching and listening, and merchandise being purchased.

Many people did not appreciate the whole kneeling thing. Many people tuned out because of it.

That is exactly what the NFL cannot tolerate.

There were teams who could have used Kap as a QB last year. He was better than anyone we threw up on the field last year. However, the public reaction was against such a thing. (And you know that the Thus, he wasn't signed here, or anywhere. NFL tests everything they can for probable public reactions)

This year, we see a very good to Pro Bowl caliber S sitting at home. Now it could be that a team will go ahead and sign him how that they are through with the draft, buy maybe no team will. Teams will weigh the positives against the negatives, and make their decision.

In the end, money is the bottom line. If a player costs the team more in broadcast and merchandise lost than his talent generates, then they are simply not going to sign him. Period.

Just my $0.02 worth.

To me it all boils down to this.

The players have a contract that they play under. the NFL can only enforce things covered within the four corners of the contract.

Eric Reid - DB - Free Agent

ESPN's Dan Graziano reports free agent S Eric Reid has filed a collusion grievance against the NFL.

Reid's attorney, Mark Geragos, is the same one who represents fellow free agent Colin Kaepernick in his collusion grievance against the league. Reid has drawn minimal interest as a free agent, visiting only the Bengals, who allegedly asked Reid if he still planned to kneel during the national anthem. It's pretty evident most teams are flat-out refusing to sign players like Reid for their protests. Reid is just 26, in the prime of his career, and coming off maybe his best NFL season.

Source: ESPN.comMay 2 - 9:58 AM

These gutless owners need to do something ... this is so DUMB!!!!

There stances make no sense ... MIND BOGGLING ...

I think the protest thing is only a part of the reason Eric Reid hasn't been signed. The guy has only played 2 full seasons in 5 years and even thought he had his best season last year according to PFF's ratings he was only the 30th best Safety last year. You add in the fact that he is looking for money that would put him in the top 10 for highest paid Safeties and I can see why he is unsigned.

I'm not against protests, but at the same time they are kind of crap.

It kind of make's me think of JFK's, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

I am for Activism (emphasis on the active- and I know Kaep does some of this, too, which I applaud), but protests kind of look like whining and expecting the government to fix your problems. People should spend more effort on trying to find solutions instead of just pointing at the problem.

How does wearing pig socks do anything but increase the (alleged) animosity?

There is an argument for protests raising awareness, but there aught to be something beyond that.

As far as the football aspect, I was actually higher on Reid's teammate, Quenton Meeks, and he went undrafted. Wonder what the deal was there?

So, did we get this player, or what?

Came to read about a player, fell into a political thread.