DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns are Legit Wild Card Sleepers

I also want to add that I think that Smith was a quality QB back then, just not an upper level quality QB. He was a very average, cautious type of WB.

I think some people might be overrating Tyrod. That's not a big problem, but it can often lead to harsher criticism when reality plays out.

browns fans... until he not on the roster he will be over rated... unless he is winning then the screams for baker will be going on lmao

I expect/hope Baker is breathing down his neck every second of every practice.

I'll be shocked if we get above five wins; I put our record this season in the 3-5 wins range.

I won't even entertain thoughts of the playoffs unless we hit at least seven wins before December.

you know what i meant. He was with the 49ers playing the Giants. lol. I assume you must be joking

You live in the Tri-State area, don't you?

So surely you watched the game if only to prepare yourself for Eli verses the Dreaded Patriots.

When the G-Men are in the playoffs, it's packed houses, snacks, beers, and blessing Eli Manning around here, lol

It seems top me that you have been middle of the road on TT for the last few years. Which I am glad to see. IMO he will never be a super star, but he also will never be a bum. He is what he is, and he has worked his butt off to be where he is today. Surround him with enough talent and IMO he can win a superbowl. Surround him with a crappy team and your going to get crappy results. He is the Best QB we have had since Couch IMO and I really, really hope we can sign him to compete/backup Mayfield after this season.

He's not elite, but is solid, above average. The fact he doesn't turn the ball over - and not in the Kessler kind of way - it's a huge plus. He never had the talent around him in Buffalo that he will here (on paper). I don't know that his deep ball is good, though.

I like him, respect him.... Watched quite a few bills games last year and year before. Baker will take over someday and probably someday soon, but TT isn't a bad option right now.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23474032/nfl-insiders-predict-best-worst-teams-free-agency-draft

*****Bear with me till the 2nd half of this post..

Which team declined the most this offseason?
Yates: Buffalo Bills. Note an important caveat: There is a long-term building process that was followed and not in any way compromised this offseason. The Bills performed exceptionally well in single-score games last season (6-2), which played an integral part in snapping their postseason drought. But it was clear they were not sold on Tyrod Taylor as the long-term quarterback solution, and they utilized their robust draft capital to select Josh Allen seventh overall. Factoring in the QB transition and offensive-line shuffle, Buffalo profiles as a regression team in the short term.

Seifert: Miami Dolphins. Their plan is difficult to discern. They've parted ways with most of their best players, from Ndamukong Suh to Jarvis Landry, and added a crew of aging veterans that includes tailback Frank Gore (35 when the season begins), receiver Danny Amendola (32) and guard Josh Sitton (32). Their faith in quarterback Ryan Tannehill, who is returning from ACL surgery, is risky at best. The Dolphins aren't rebuilding in any functional way, but their roster is not ready to compete for a playoff spot, either. That's a major step back.

Schatz: Buffalo Bills. The QB situation is a mess. Even if you're a believer in Allen (I'm not), you have to admit he's the kind of quarterback who will likely require a lot of work to transition. The offensive line is a mess, too, with Buffalo's three best linemen gone via either trade or retirement. Football Outsiders' free-agency analysis also shows edge rusher Trent Murphy as one of this year's signings least likely to live up to the value of his three-year, $22.5 million contract.

Sando: Miami Dolphins. They subtracted Suh, Landry and Mike Pouncey. They appear to be a less talented team as a result.

Joyner: Seattle Seahawks. Mel Kiper gave them his lowest grade of the draft, and their free-agent additions were arguably the least inspiring in the league. Those might be enough to drop Seattle to the bottom of this list, but how in the world did the Seahawks do so little to upgrade the offensive line, which was arguably the worst in the league last season?


The Seahawks find themselves in a suddenly crowded NFC West with a depleted roster. Otto Greule Jr/Getty Images
Graziano: Seattle Seahawks. The decline obviously started last season, sooner than most of us expected. But losing Michael Bennett, Richard Sherman, Cliff Avril and Sheldon Richardson in the same offseason (with Kam Chancellor's situation still unresolved) is to see a foundation crumble underneath you. Pete Carroll is not to be underestimated as a puzzle-solver, but does he have enough pieces?

Clay: Miami Dolphins. It was hard not to think of the Chip Kelly-era Eagles when watching the Dolphins chase "culture" while moving on from talented players such as Jay Ajayi, Suh, Pouncey, Landry and Michael Thomas over the past several months. Miami is weak or below average at most positions and is suddenly a candidate for the first overall pick in next April's draft.


Bowen: Seattle Seahawks. The "Legion of Boom" used to dictate the flow of the game. Play three-deep coverage, challenge routes and physically control the middle of the field. No free passes there. However, with Sherman now in San Francisco, Chancellor facing an uncertain future and a front-four pass rush that must be retooled, the Seahawks have crucial roles to fill on the defensive side of the ball in a division that features quarterbacks Jared Goff and Jimmy Garoppolo.

** RIGHT HERE.. Which team improved the most this offseason?
Bowen: Los Angeles Rams. The arrow is pointing up for the Bears and Browns after productive offseasons, but I'm looking at the Rams due to the proven, veteran talent they brought in via trades and free agency. Cornerbacks Marcus Peters and Aqib Talib have the playmaking skills to find the ball in the secondary. Go get it. Defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh bolsters the interior of the front line next to All-Pro Aaron Donald. Wide receiver Brandin Cooks is an upgrade for the passing game. Strong, aggressive moves put this squad in position to win the NFC West and make a serious playoff run.

Clay: Cleveland Browns. They had the league's worst quarterback play in 2017 but solidified it by acquiring Tyrod Taylor and first overall pick Baker Mayfield. Joe Thomas and Danny Shelton are gone, but Cleveland stocked up with talent: E.J. Gaines, TJ Carrie, Carlos Hyde, Jarvis Landry, Chris Hubbard and Damarious Randall as well as early-round rookies Denzel Ward, Austin Corbett and Nick Chubb. This is a team on the rise.

Graziano: Chicago Bears. The problem is that because of the strength of their division, I don't know that the improvement will necessarily show in the standings. The Bears spent big in free agency, which isn't always the best way to go, but they've improved their wide receiver corps and kept their secondary intact with that spending. I believe their top three draft picks -- Roquan Smith, James Daniels and Anthony Miller -- are guys who can help them right away at positions of significant need.


Joyner: Cleveland Browns. It's incredible that the Browns were able to improve in as many ways as they did this offseason. They added two quality quarterbacks, have a logjam of good running backs with the additions of Hyde and Chubb, brought in three solid cornerbacks in free agency and acquired the best coverage cornerback in the draft (Ward). Three new offensive linemen give the Browns one of the deepest blocking walls in the NFL, and they added Landry, arguably the best possession receiver in the league.

Seifert: New York Jets. Stay with me for a moment. There is no doubt that the Browns have raised their talent level more from 2017 to 2018. But they also had the furthest to go. The Jets' drafting of quarterback Sam Darnold establishes a long-term focus for what was already a decently talented roster. For the first time in six years, the Jets know whom they're building around. Don't underestimate the value in that, even if Darnold doesn't make a huge impact in 2018.

Yates: Cleveland Browns. From a talent-added standpoint relative to where the team was last season, Cleveland takes the cake. That, of course, includes the fact that this team was historically bad in 2017, becoming just the second to go 0-16. The Browns have cultivated a short- and long-term plan at quarterback and talent across the offense, and they reshaped the secondary.

Alex Smith
2012 49ers Completion % 70.2 Yards 1,737 TD 13 INT 5 QBR 104.1

Tyrod Taylor
2017 Bills Completion % 62.6 Passing Yards 2,799 TD 14 INT 4 QBR 89.2

Lots of similarities.
Both got benched. Both have over 60% completion. Awesome TD to INT ratio and 90% QBR. both run with the ball.

Wow. When was the last time somebody, most anybody had to really earn their spot on the Browns roster.

The Browns are so good, they might as well just win the Super Bowl THIS YEAR! Worst to First,

Nobody was near as bad, so nobody should be near as good, this year. Right!

Tony Dorsett led, won the Super Bowl as a rookie if I recall correctly.

Time for the Browns to do it, This year!

Think about it, They have about 14 wide receivers that are certainly going to be superstars, and a half a dozen running backs that will get 1400+ yards if given enough carries.

And the defense, they just have about 35 people where they would normaly have 20 some, that are ready to plug and play.

If the Browns were just allowed to put 16 people on the field while the other teams stay with 11, Woo Hoo! Super Bowl!!

Oh Wait, Ya Um, ( Well Why not Us? Why Not Browns Super Bowl this year, maybe they should make a Super Bowl Shuffle, Music Video)
** It wouldn't be any more stupider than the word stupider or more of a showcase than the current situation of coach jumping in the lake and 0 fer parades that we already have, so ... far fetched? Why not. **

Can we just GIVE the BROWNS the AFC North Division title before the season starts.
I MEAN THEY HAVEN'T WON A DIVISION GAME IN THE LAST 2 YEARS, 12 TRIES!

(That there would be enough for most head coaches to be hiding (/sitting in the hot seat with/) from the Owner, but our HC, and Owner appear like two peas in a pod.) < Things that make you go Hmm.

The Browns are going to either go

0-16
4-12
7-9 to 9-7 and just barely threaten to be a playoff team.

or go 12-4 or better and win the Whole freaking Super Bowl!

I vote for the latter most. ( It's May.)

2 KEY items here that I think many are not taking into consideration are:

1) Massive upgrade in the QB Room.
2) Veterans sprinkled ALL OVER this roster from FA.

I'm TOTALLY with you on winning 5 games last year if we just had a QB that could hit the broadside of a barn and not KILL drive after drive with turnovers.

Turnover ratio is a HUGE component and is directly tied to WINS. We've seen the stats for it. It's REAL.

I know you're not crazy enamoured with what Dorsey did in FA, but he attacked the 3 weakest links on this team.

QB
WR
Secondary

3 HUGE additions are guys that can actually CATCH A F'in FOOTBALL, as you say.lol. I'm talking Landry, Gordon and Callaway.

Playoff Sleeper? You BET YOUR ASS. 10 Wins is doable if these guys can gel within the first 5 or 6 games and make a 2nd half of the season run.

I'd take the OVER 5.5 games all day long.

We do still have some major questions IMO (albeit, we are improved since January):

1. LT is a big question mark
2. We need Collins, Ogbah, and Kirksey to stay healthy and be productive
3. We need Njoku to make big strides with consistency
4. We need on of the DT guys to make strides
5. Gordon must stay eligible to play
6. How will Tyrod adjust and perform? I know we assume he'll be an upgrade, but he's still not a sure-shot IMO
7. Will Peppers improve? Will his "new" position make him better?
8. Is Ward up to the task of facing SO MANY #1 WRs?
9. Will Hue become a better HC finally? (time management, challenges, adjustments, etc)
10. Will we have any luck finally?


That's just off the top of my head

Please finish your list and forward it to Hard Knocks ASAP.

Their current list is, in no order at all, at all, probably 0-16, Manziel, QB controversy, the extreme number of QB's, Hue's record and future, Gordon and his checkered past, and Kizer.

That might be too cynical, but I bet that I am closer than I should be although I tried to exaggerate.

Did NOT want the distraction.

Like the nukular option at the end! LOL.

Might as well go over the top. We are undefeated at this point today.

Might as well win it all!

Veterans were sprinkled ALL OVER this roster the last several years. The only position group where there are more veterans in recent years is QB.

yea.. why we were the youngest team in the nfl... all those salty old vets we had....

Just because we average a younger roster doesn't mean we don't have vets. Look up past years and tell me we didn't.

just like getting young does not mean your better. short term or long term.

We've won ONE of 32 in two years and you'll take the over 5.5 all day long.....don't bet the house. Have you checked our schedule- it's among the toughest in league. We've improved but so has every team on our schedule....six game wins easy....right, we won all our preseason games last year....NOT a SINGLE real game....show me some Ws before I bet a dollar on our Browns!!!!

Losing Thomas alone probably made us a year younger....GO Browns!!!

Pitt lost Shazier ... that alone means they DID NOT GET BETTER ...

Sorry ... Not every team gets better every year .... matter of fact ... i’d Say 20% at east go backwords every year ...

Crap ... just look at us ... even when we didn’t think it was possible to get worse year over year we did it ... ..

U gonna try and tell me Miami improved this off season ... ...

KC certainly didn’t IMPROVE ...

Those are just the easy 3 ... thats almost 10% of the league right there ...

Seattles another one ... u sure they improved??? ..

Its a MYTH that every team improves every year ...

Look, ya'll can argue the facts but we've done both. We've had a ton of vets and lost. We've had a ton of rookies/younger guys and lost. Both consistently.

I just want a plan that freaking works. If that involves a ton of vets, ton of rookies or a mix bag I could frankly care less. We've seen it all and the faces and ages have all changed, but losing has been consistent.

I'm not ready to bet on the Browns given how it's been, regardless of young high round draft picks or high dollar and etc vets that are here. Honestly, to think we're wild card sleepers is humorous to me personally, and unable to fathom.

The Browns are legit Wild card sleepers. Who doesn't like reading that.

It's believable right up until the 3rd week of the season 0-3, not really believable if that happens, SOO!

Who they gonna beat in the first 3 games?

Vs. Pittsburgh Sept. 9th 1pm CBS
AT. New Orleans, Sept. 16th 1pm Fox; or 4 days later...
Vs. NY Jets, Sept. 20th 8:20 pm NFL Network.

They've got to win at least one to stay legit wild card sleepers, I'll say.

If the Browns start 0-3 it will be like 1 million days, plus 3 weeks since they've won a football game, and it'll be on every broadcast.

I'm not saying you're a troll, exactly... but you post like one.

He's not a troll, lamp. He is a different guy, but he is not a troll.

Based on our history ... your 100% correct in your line of logic ...

Once again ... here’s what u and many many others on here don’t understand ... this is just in a different context ...

It was never the plan or the mix of vets, youngins ... it has always been the EXECUTION of the plan ... the most IMPORTANT PART of the EXECUTION is bringing in TALENT ... we’ve STUNK AT THAT ...

We have way more talent on this team than any in the past ... ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE ...

Look at QB alone ... its a real slap in the face that we haven’t had a QB here as competent as TT since our return ... if we didn’t witness it, we wouldn’t believe it ...

Look at WR ... we have as good a 1/2 punch as there is in the league ...

This team has more talent on it than we’ve had since our return and its NOT EVEN CLOSE ...

AMAZING PART IS ... most fans are deathly afraid to think we can win 6 - 8 games ... thats how SNAKE BITTEN WE ARE ... were talking about being afraid to think we have a shot to go 500!!!!!!

You're right, I'm wrong....was thinking only about new talented players being drafted...free agency loses and vets, like Thomas hanging it up....answered to quick....many improve...GO Browns!!!

Cuz we've STUNK for so long....to just read about how many first round draft picks we've wasted- it can't be real, BUT is....so, yes, I agree with you we finally have competitive talent....BUT the APE on our back is....WIN baby, and it ain't fact until it is.....lots of us are from Missouri....show me baby....all we've had is HOPE....maybe we can win 8, but ONE is 100% improvement- damn.....GO Browns!!!!

U tell me I’m right and then u kick me right in the nuts bringing Joe up ... not nice .. *LOL* ...

The Classless one made the same statement earlier that EVERYONE IMPROVES ... i’m not sure if thats the case since FA and the CAP became a part of the game ...

Pitt couldn’t overcome the loss of Shazier this year cause they didnt have the RESOURCES to make it happen ... only reason we improved even though Joe retired is all the RESOURCES we had ...

Man ... if only ......................................

And the other classless one keeps forgetting that year in and year out people say that Pittsburgh is slipping and we're better.

We are better this year. We have more talent this year. That doesn't however mean we've caught up to the rest of the league in one off season. That doesn't mean we will be competitive in our division.

Could it happen? Yes, anything is possible. But the odds of that happening aren't good. And it doesn't change the fact that every team works to improve every off season. The Browns don't live in a vacuum in that regard. We had better draft picks and more salary cap. That should give us an advantage in closing the gap. But 0-16 is a cavern to fill, not a gap.

What happened to bye bye?

Hope your personals recover To even write/talk about a team who's won one game in 32 makes no sense to me- legit to me means winning a game, then another before you lose two or three or more in a row.....IF we are "legit" there is surely a huge mountain to climb with our schedule....GO Browns!!!

Very unlikely, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility...

OK....2-1.


0-3 and the sheet hits the fan and Hue starts throwing anybody and everything under the bus.

Losing the home game to the Jets could be devastating to morale. It is pivotal, IMO...

the Browns wont beat the Steelers based on 2 things
head coach and qb.
Hue Jackson cant out coach Mike Tomlin and Tyrod Taylor cant get into a shootout with Ben Rothlisberger.
i guess the Browns could take a page from The Jags and pound the ball but the Browns are not a physical team when it comes to running the ball.
yeah the Browns could win but you have remove Ben from the game.
hes had the Browns number for 13 years