DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus NFL bans on-field kneeling during the national anthem

Especially if that prominent celebrity is a young white dude with a shaved head ... *L* ...

Hmmm ... i wonder what this makes me ...

I served and i voted for Mr. President ... wonder if voting for Mr. President overrides my service and i’m considered a fake patriot ..... ...

I actually understand what you are saying here. The only thing I will disagree with is this:

It most certainly was an issue for a lot of people before Trump got involved. He exasperated it, yes. However a lot of people felt it was disrespectful towards our servicemen and the flag (I get that is not the intent or purpose, however that was how it was perceived by many). So to say it was not an issue until Trump tweeted about it, well that's just false.

Now, I will also say this. The purpose of the protest was to bring dialogue about perceived police brutalities against minorities, am I correct? Assuming I am, no dialogue has been implemented from it, no change has been recorded from it, and not it seems to be just a peeing match between the NFL players, Trump, and the NFL trying to mediate. The purpose of the protest is now no more what its original intent was stated.

If the players really want to make a statement, protest the game. Just saying, I don't think that will happen.

Appropriate .... good god what a load of S&%> . EVERYTHING is "appropriated " in one form or another .

Are the Chinese mad that Italians appropriated pasta ?

Is South America mad that the Irish appropriated the potato ?

Henry Ford mad that his assembly line idea was appropriated by ..well.. everyone ?

You see a trend here ? Ideas happen , people like them and then expand/improve upon them not like they stole them .

I see a trend of my points flying straight over your head. Read my post again.

I do t have a problem with sharing culture, but it says a lot that the people who stay using culture created by blacks are openingly hostile to said black people.

I don’t see Italians openly hostile to the Chinese.

But continue making up your own narratives. You’re only proving my point.

see my earlier post.

I described you to a Tee.
you are now officially a tired, worn-out cliche... straight out of Central Casting.

How arrogant of you to try to dictate the manner in which another citizen exercises his 1A. Arrogant and unearned.

The textbook definition of privilege.

Like we kids used to say in my neighborhood:
"Who tf is you?"

Charles Manson reference?

You'uns get off the grass! And figure out how to protest so it doesn't get my attention or disrupt my life!

And yet you and I are in constructive dialogue right this very minute.

Willit: I've been an ethnic minority in this country for 6 decades. Of all the people posting on this board, no one is more keenly aware of the glacial pace of True Change than I am.

Your conversation with me is what real change looks like.
What?
You were expecting a national movement to sweep the entire country and effect improvement in a mere 2-3 years? Please.

Truth be told, this KC/NFL situation is simply the latest installment in a movement that began 70 years ago. 70 years. From Rosa Parks to MLK to X to Muhammed Ali to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to Tommie Smith and John Carlos to Colin Kaepernick... all have been a part of this movement for equal treatment. Each has chosen his/her own unique method of protest.

The only true constant in these many and varied protest scenarios: condemnation that sounds just like 40yearswaiting, when he's talking down to Swish.

After '70 years waiting,' Young Black Americans are unconcerned with the approval of people like 40. And I really can't blame them.

1. CK takes a knee? Unamerican. Ungrateful.
2. Young people form BLM: immediately, the entire movement is conveniently recast as a terror organization because a handful of idiots act up?
3. Ali: thrown in jail.
4. MLK: slain by a coward in a sniper's nest.

Like Swish said: doesn't matter who or when or how... it's always received the same way- "no!"

When some read Swish's observations, they hear the Angry Black Man. When I read his words, I hear the same cries of frustration and anguish that have accompanied me every day of My American Life. Same words: heard with a different inflection. Heard through a different set of ears, backed by a lifetime of different American experiences.

I try to use my 60 years of time & experience to frame the same message with different words. The hope is that eventually the combination of both our stories can get our message out to people like you... because we've never been able to effect social change on our own- and we need your help.

good talk.

Clem

This is all just another reason to legalize weed. If we could just all sit down and get really baked together, a lot of this crap would get sorted properly. Plus Swish is hard to take seriously as the 'Angry Black Man' when you are stoned, but I bet he can slay some BBQ. (because he's a stoner, not black, lol)

Well there is one problem with that. It's called the collective bargaining agreement.

You see, there's two sides to every story. Since I haven't let my emotions dictate my stand on this issue, I can see both sides.

I have said all along that I could see the owners using the personal conduct policy as it applies to "This Personal Conduct ... sanction conduct detrimental to the league and professional football." So I can easily understand where the league may use this as grounds.

I can also see how the NFLPA can use the fact that the NFL simply can't impose new rules that aren't a part of the collective bargaining agreement without discussions between the league and the union. I know it pains so many when employees actually have a say, but you'll have that from time to time.

So without some feeling to force patriotism, which this isn't even about in the first place, I can see both sides of this issue.

And BTW- it has nothing to do with fining players either. The NFL knew better than to try that. Instead they will be fining the team to pass that buck on down the line. A true cop out at its finest.

The first amendment was ratified on December 15, 1791
The Star Spangled Banner was adopted as the National Anthem on March 3, 1931
The current US flag was created on August 21, 1959

The first amendment exists completely independent of that song or that flag... and did so for more than a hundred years...


I know you don't get it and you never will, because you don't want to, but I'm going to say it anyway... those who fought and gave their lives for those rights... they didn't give EVERYBODY those rights for almost another 200 years...

So while our distant ancestors were acquiring property, getting an education, and building a foundation for generations to come.. some folks ancestors were actually owned by other people, they had no rights, they didn't even have the right to stay alive... then while our parents and/or grandparents were building on that legacy, some folks parents and grandparents were fighting to be recognized as whole human beings worthy of using the same bathroom as our relatives, worthy of going to same schools.. forget luxuries like making the same amount of money or actually having viable representation within government... those luxuries were still a ways off..

Now I know you think folks should just get over that and enjoy that today, in 2018, they have a better opportunity to start at the bottom and claw their way up a crowded ladder to enjoy a little success.. I get that you think that's fair and they should be grateful... I also get that you don't understand why these millionaires shouldn't be especially grateful since they are literally the .001% that actually made it... and they should just get over all of that old history stuff, after all, you personally didn't have anything to do with it.. I get all that. And while I will agree with you that things have come a long way, if you can't see that we aren't even close to the finish line yet.. then I can't help you. And I haven't even touched on what is going on today, which is what they are actually protesting.. they aren't even protesting centuries of forced servitude or decades of being hung with nobody being held accountable or being denied admission to decent schools or being fired on with water hoses for trying to say "This is wrong" ... or the flag or the song or the soldiers who fought or any of that strawman stuff you like to throw out there to distract from what's really going on here


Yes, they should protest in a different way.. one that you don't actually have to see... one that doesn't interfere with your enjoyment of a sport like football... they should do it in a downtown park in May, in an inner city black church at their own leisure, out in a field in July, or in the privacy of their own homes, that way you won't have to pay attention to it or acknowledge it and it won't make you feel uncomfortable because everything I said above is true and you don't want to address it

Well this may come as a shock to you, but when you are pissed at something, you protest the symbols of that thing.. and you protest them in the most public and visible way possible... you do not capitulate to protesting in a way that's convenient for those who hold the very mindset of what you are protesting AGAINST.

It's ironic as hell though... you, the guy who labels anybody who isn't unwaveringly committed to one extreme ideology or the other as a fence sitter and has mocked me and others like me many times for being wishy washy and not taking a stand.... in this instance, you fully expect that the other side should compromise and take into consideration YOUR feelings about the flag and the national anthem...

Hell, what's even more funny is the NFL running around saying that in their opinion this is a fair compromise.. and the NFLPA saying, nobody called us. How can this be a compromise if we weren't even invited to participate in it?

The owners decided what they wanted, the owners decided what they were willing to accept and what concessions they were willing to make, the owners voted on it, the owners ratified it and put it into place... with ZERO input from the NFLPA or any other civil rights organization.. then they have the gall to call it a compromise.

I know you won't get it.. in fact, I doubt I even fully get it and I have at least tried.. but this is the way minorities have been given rights in this country since 1776... white people decide what they will be allowed to do or to have.. offer them a small token of recourse like, you can stay in the locker room out of sight if you want to and protest in private, and then wonder why they aren't eternally grateful for this morsel of humanity that has been graciously bestowed upon them... and why so many are less than enthusiastic about standing up proudly for that flag...

There, I feel better.

You actually look better too.

I will concede this point yes, but are we discussing it about the actual perceived notion of brutalities, or are we discussing it because of the perceived notion of the disrespect to the flag? That's the problem, IMO. neither side is realizing that the other side is talking about something different. One side feels its disrespectful, the other side feels its a protest to what we talked about. Neither side is really listening to the other side, just complaining at this point, IMO.

No offense to 40, but what would young black americans care for his approval? Maybe you meant something different and I am reading this wrong, but me personally, the only person's approval I ever wanted was my fathers. Other than his, no one elses meant more than a penny.

I understand what you saying here, and it maybe the case for some. I don't tend to speak for others. But I know when I read Swish's post, I don't read "angry black man" - i read unreasonable and unwilling to hear the other side of the argument man. Every person is different, and expresses themselves differently, nothing wrong with that. But, when you come across someone that refuses to hear the other side AND are hostile towards someone you have never met, and tend to call them a racist simply because they see things differently - that's where the issues begin.

You would be surprise what us white devils would listen to and have conversations about, and probably agree with you on, if we were not judged for actions of others when we were not even alive. (i hope it is obvious that me saying white devil was a joke, and not implying anyone has called me that- however i have been called a racist/bigot daily on these boards).

Sorry for the late late and untimely replies. My employees decided to take the day off and i am the only one running an entire Branch today.

Maybe the NFL players can protest for people to stop FALSE accusations against white police officers?

And this, right here, is why Swish wrote:
"Dance, Black man, dance."



In how many different ways, from how many different voices, must this message be relayed?
In what future will these messages be received by those who need it most?

#morework4theweary
#nevergiveup

This is one of the dumbest analogies I've ever read on this board.

Reid had an op-ed in the Times explaining his motivations quite clearly. Kaepernick expressed his intentions with similar clarity.

You chose to ignore or disregard their points because you were too busy crying about how they weren't being P.C., and how much that offended you.

No one is forcing them to work for the NFL if they feel it's unfair they are free to seek employment elsewhere.

Primadonna, entitled, multi millionaire dancers who are told by the owners, who cut them their multi million dollar checks, that you cost me enough as it is but your actions are costing me more. Stop it.
Now the dancers are in need of civil rights organizations to fight this atrocity? Do the white dancers even have a civil rights organization?

Give me a break already!

When they start walking away from their contracts I will be willing to listen.

They didn't cost the owners anything.

That must be it ...flew right over my head .

Shahid Khan is currently having a brain aneurysm as his plans for a London team take a step further

I'm sure he would have said the exact same thing about those involved in the women's suffrage movement, the civil rights movement and any other group of people trying to change our nation for the better.

His ego has been so bruised and battered by his surprise at the media not adhering to the funhouse mirror version he wants to be seen as that he's retreated to the deepest corners of his reactionary crank base.

He's on TV as I type talking about those special Gold Star families. I'm sure he is only speaking about the Republican ones.

At some point I would think he would lose the ability to make me shake my head .

Give me a break.. give me a break indeed.

"Is there a White Entertainment Television?"

this is always my favorite part.. haven't figure out exactly what it is about it that amuses me so much though.. I think it's how much it drips with envy that these poor black kids were given all of the athletic ability to achieve the dream of playing professional sports that many of us white kids just didn't get...

I also think it's funny that you cast aspersions at these black athletes, many of whom rose out of almost nothing, to become primadonna, entitled, multi-millionaires... when that is where President Trump started...

What about the White athletes, many of whom rose out of almost nothing, to become primadonna, entitled, multi-millionaires? They don't count?

Rae Carruth, Ray Lewis and Ray Rice drew less vitriol and backlash than Colin Kaepernick or Eric Reid.

There's a reason for that.

You take a lot of liberties with what I said as the NFL is made up of Blacks, Whites, Hispanics and Samoans last time I looked. Most worked their way up the ladder in life.

I guess I am just used to watching the NHL where there is no politics and no agenda except to play hard and produce an exciting product.

Reminds me of how the NFL used to be.

lol

I'm laughing out loud.

FOX?

No, but there are still sports not being ruined by Primadonna, entitled, multi millionaires.

They didn't cost the owners anything????? ....That might be the dumbest thing I ever read on here. Did you see all the empty seats on Sundays? Maybe you were out shopping at Bed, Bath and beyond with your Mom.

You never did that with your mom before?

This debates heated condition brought to you by:

Donald J. Trump. He made it OK to be a disrespectful, mean, bullying, lying political operative which by the way, looks like means the Government is trying to stifle their rights to free speech...

Don't be like Donald J. Trump.

40 doesn't always drink beer, but when he does... he wears depends.