DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Tent City To Be Built in Texas to House Migrant Children

You should both strive for greater accuracy in your information.

As a general rule, asylum eligibility is considered for an entire nation, and not specific parts of that nation, outside of a specific ethnic issue. So, no, the entire country of Mexico is not, GENERALLY, approved as an automatic eligibility for asylum.

HOWEVER, that does NOT mean that no one from Mexico can possibly be eligible for asylum. There are exceptions to every rule, it is not an absolute.

The difference of 2.8% acceptance versus 48% for other countries should pretty clearly point this out.

It is not impossible, but it is not commonplace.

There's a thread in here with a Candace Owens video titled How To Make a Mind. It's funny to see some people live out their 1984 fear without even knowing it.

Owens is a good example.

Dave Rubin, Mike Cernovich... it's telling who they gravitate to.

It happens both ways, too. Look at Bill Maher.

Can I call someone a liar if I have factual proof?

Will I get banned if I tell someone to not take their meds?

Will we allow white supremacy to continue to fester on this forum?

I’m pretty sure this place didn’t allow klan rallies when I joined back in 2010.

The most elegant and simple explanation of why Trump's decision to leverage these children as a tool to attempt to prevent illegal immigration was in this article I read today.... it strikes not at whether the law should or should not be enforced - but whether the law is just.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/...m=.29f0c54563df

== The Bible, like a gun, is a dangerous thing in the hands of a bigot. Segregationists and autocrats throughout Western history have claimed that Romans 13 covers oppressive or unjust laws. But the centerpiece commitment of Christian social ethics is not order; it is justice. For a good introduction to the concept, Sessions might read the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail.” “A just law is a man-made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God,” King argued. “An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law.” And how should justice be defined? “Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.” ==

The bottom line is that what the US government is doing to these innocent children is tragic and inhumane. Hiding behind a position of "were only enforcing the law" is cowardly and disgusting. . . . I understand the desire to prevent illegal immigration. I understand that the parents are breaking US law .. but there is a choice on how to respond. Trump has chosen a response that shows a total lack of compassion. There are other options.

In the far east and middle east I believe they still cut off the hands of thieves. It's certainly a much greater deterrent than any laws we have in the USA .... this child detention policy of Trump's makes me draw an analogy with the punishment of cutting of someone's hand for theft. Sure it's the "law" - but is it inhumane and barbaric. I think so, without any doubt.

And John Oliver. Trying to give a critique against them to their rabid fanbases is pointless.

This is more Stephen Miller's doing than Trump's.

Trump is an elderly racist trust fund idiot who yells at the TV all day. His name is on the door, but ain't shaping policy.

So if a single father breaks into a house, and goes to jail, he should be left to go, since he has child?

I've heard you can give people unsolicited ice cream edemas and call people murderers, depending on who you are doing it to. It would nice to get some clarification on the rules, especially if they're trying to reign this behavior in. But what does this former forum moderator know?

Obviously the answer is to put the kid on a chain gang.

I still can't get over the openings to all his weird and dumb analogies.

"So if I got a great job in California..."

"So if a single father..."

according to you, he should be given room and board in the house he breaks into free of charge......

That's not the crime being discussed. If you think your analogy is the same as what's taking place, then I disagree.

Someone saying that regardless of the crime the Libtards want to give all criminals a cozy warm place to live with their family is badly wrong. But hey - it sounds catchy right. Never mind the facts, just invent something that sounds like something that the folks on the RIGHT think the Libtards on the LEFT *might* say and then we can all have a good laugh at it. Pfft.

DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen says 'loopholes' in law separate families at the border


David Jackson, USA TODAY Published 6:06 p.m. ET June 18, 2018 | Updated 7:42 p.m. ET June 18, 2018

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli...rder/712095002/

WASHINGTON -- Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen insisted Monday that President Trump's administration does not have a specific family separation policy, but separations do happen as a result of enforcing immigration laws riddled with "loopholes."

"Congress needs to fix it," Nielsen told reporters during a specially arranged briefing at the White House. "It's a problem; let's fix it."

Current federal law doesn't allow the government to hold entire families together, she said, though lawmakers in both parties said enforcement is at the administration's discretion.

"There is no law that says the Administration has to rip children from their families," said Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., in calling for Nielsen's resignation.

Sen. Ben Sasse, R-Neb., said "family separation is wicked," and should not be "the default U.S. policy. Americans are better than this."

Amid the criticism, as well as televised images of crying children taken from their parents, the White House sent out Nielsen to speak with reporters, delaying the news briefing for nearly four hours as the homeland security secretary returned from giving a speech in New Orleans.

Nielsen said most of the children in federal custody were sent into the United States without their parents. Those who are detained are treated well, she said, provided with meals, medical care, and educational services, as well as video conferences with parents.

"Illegal entry is a crime," she told reporters at the White House, and parents who engage in it are putting their children at risk.

She also said migrants claiming asylum will not be separated from their families if they make the claim at a specified "port of entry."


Nielsen said most of the children in federal custody were sent into the United States without their parents. Those who are detained are treated well, she said, provided with meals, medical care, and educational services, as well as video conferences with parents.

"Illegal entry is a crime," she told reporters at the White House, and parents who engage in it are putting their children at risk.

She also said migrants claiming asylum will not be separated from their families if they make the claim at a specified "port of entry."

This time is still referred to as the dark ages.

Add to the fact that arguing "It's the law - we must uphold the law" - totally and completely misses the entire point of the article and my post.

Once again, if someone puts their kid in the trunk of a car, the child is taken away from them. No?

Once again, you're equating a civil offense with a criminal offense, which makes no sense.

Depends on if their wife is back there too, I would think.

once again, you deflect.

Why is it child abuse when an American does it, but its "seeking a better life" when an illegal immigrant does it?

I laughed out loud for real.

Every part of this is perfect. There is zero fat on his unwitting joke.

I did not deflect, I jested.

I would think the difference between a father putting his kid in the trunk of a car to save room while moving (?), and a family being stored away in the back of a truck for fear of being killed are two completely different things. On one hand, you have a bad tetris player who is also a bad parent. On the other hand, you have a family relying on their survival instincts by hiding for hundreds of miles.

I'd still rather talk about how this policy is affecting asylum seekers at the border specifically and not illegal immigrants tho. Can you manage that?

The majority of those coming here are not coming here because they are in fear of their lives, again this is a talking point you and others are trying to push, which is just false. Those seeking asylum , as Nelson pointed out the numbers, and qualified for it, have received it.

So, for the family that is coming here simply because they want to live here and do not want to wait - why is it ok for them to endanger their child?

No it's not, and I'll post it against since you've avoided it for the past hour and a half.




Here's a link if you need it:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/2470...of-nationality/

Your chart shows people who are granted asylum, it says nothing about the number of illegals coming here as a whole.

The majority of people that come here illegally are not refugees or fleeing a country.

they coming simply because they want to live here.

The scary part of the people who demand the higher moral ground is their inability to see problematic ideas and jokes.

Trump's policy of separating families is a crime against humanity. If this was a 3rd world country we could be looking towards the skies for a drone strike.

You keep ignoring the fact you are trying to compare civil and criminal like you can't or refuse to see it. But at some point that's about what I expected.

People unfortunately tend to have an extremely simplistic view of the law, and only view actions as being "legal" or "illegal", without respect to additional boilerplate like "proportional response."

If someone steals a candy bar, we don't chop off their hand in this country. If someone gets a speeding ticket, we don't take away their kids. Yet people are insisting on navigating this simplistic view because it's the only way they can justify to themselves that we are living through a humanitarian crisis on our very own border. Taking away kids over a civil violation is not proportional, and it only exists because the WH wants leverage for the wall and because Jeff Sessions and Stephen Miller like bringing pain on people they consider undesirable.

And lest we leave Trump out of it, the POTUS himself refers to this problem as an infestation . Unfortunately these dog whistles are not new for him.

This issue is hinged on one simple question: Do you think it is acceptable for the US government to use children as leverage to further their policy goals?

And let's face it, that's what this all boils down to. In the end we'll find that the only way to stop this is to fund the wall. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not against a border wall. But using children in this manner as pawns in a chess match as blackmail makes it very hard for me to support any of Trump's policies.

But see, there's no room for middle ground in this nation anymore. You either support a party all or nothing. No matter what foolish or evil things they do. No matter what moron they elect. No matter how evil their policies.

Here lately I've had more concerns than ever before about a party who claims to have Christian values, who claims to have family values and then supports such a vile man who has nothing in common with everything they claim to stand for.

Talking to trumpian xenophobes about the human decency of caring about brown children is an exercise in futility. This whole forum has degraded to nothing more than a sewer that propagates and justifies American fascism. The voice of opposition has zero counter effect because a few sewer dwellers are deaf to any message not originating from the orange sewage source, rather delivered directly or parroted.

child abuse is now civil and criminal?? Please explain.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigr...rmanent-n884391

Former ICE Director: Some migrant family separations are permanent

"You could be creating thousands of immigrant orphans in the U.S.," said ex-Acting Director John Sandweg.
by Julia Ainsley / Jun.19.2018 / 11:54 AM ET
Image: Family units who illegally crossed the Mexico-U.S. border turn themselves in to U.S. Border Patrol agents near McAllen
Families who illegally crossed the Mexico-U.S. border turn themselves in to U.S. Border Patrol agents near McAllen, Texas, on May 9, 2018.Loren Elliott / Reuters file
WASHINGTON — The former head of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement told NBC News that migrant parents separated from their children at the border are sometimes unable to relocate their child and remain permanently separated.

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"Permanent separation. It happens," said John Sandweg, who served as acting director of ICE under the Obama administration from 2013-2014.

Sandweg's warning contradicts White House messaging that the separation of women and children migrants under the Trump administration's "zero tolerance" policy is only temporary.

While a parent can quickly move from detention to deportation, a child's case for asylum or deportation may not be heard by a judge for several years because deporting a child is a lower priority for the courts, Sandweg explained.

Related
A day at the border: Gripping images show detained migrant families
"You could easily end up in a situation where the gap between a parent's deportation and a child's deportation is years," Sandweg said.

As a result, parents may find themselves back in their home countries struggling to find their children. Many do not have access to legal counsel or understand the U.S. immigration or judicial systems.

Children who stay in the foster system for lengthy periods of time may become wards of the state and finally adopted.

"You could be creating thousands of immigrant orphans in the U.S. that one day could become eligible for citizenship when they are adopted," Sandweg explained.

That scenario could be hard to swallow for immigration hardliners who argue against spending welfare dollars on immigrants and are opposed to a path to citizenship for children brought into the country illegally.

Sandweg says he has seen permanent separation happen when a parent is deported without his or her child.

"This is why family unity was critical for us. With the numbers of families crossing ticking up, [the] Obama administration was concerned about children being left behind," said Sandweg.




Nearly 2,000 migrant children have been separated from their parents
JUN.19.201811:13
Speaking on Fox News on Tuesday, White House Director of Strategic Communications Mercedes Schlapp insisted the separations were short term.

"We have come to understand that these families who are separated, it is for a limited period of time between five to ten days," Schlapp said.

But already, immigration lawyers in the U.S. and Central America say many parent immigrants who have been deported are having a hard time locating their children. The Trump administration's "zero tolerance" policy was announced in April.

Parents are given a paper slip written in English and Spanish that explains they have been charged with a crime for entering the United States illegally and will be separated from their child while they await their court hearing.

"For assistance in locating your child(ren), you may contact the Office of Refugee Resettlement," the slip says, giving a 1-800 number.

NBC News called the number and heard a recording that allows the caller to be connected with a case manager regarding his or her child.

We are discussing illegal immigration. It is a civil crime. You have repeatedly made comparisons to criminal offenses. Punishment for civil crimes do not include separating families. There in lies the difference in the comparisons you've been trying to make.

They support him because he's not Hillary. If Trump said anything right, it was when he said he could shoot a person dead in 5th avenue and not lose support.

Insanity and cruelty.

You an others are completely missing my point. I don't like the fact they are being separated, before someone tries to say that I do. I am simply pointing out that child endangerment is child endangerment. Laws should be applied evenly to all.

People crossing the border illegally with children should be detained, as it gives incentive to come across with children if you do not. However, then you are where we are now - with what do you do with the children.

Personally, I feel we need to get legislation done that creates a separate facility to house those with children and expedite their cases. The left, simply wants to let them in, no questions asked.

typo,

Child abuse is now civil and *NOT* criminal

So crossing the border with your children is somehow child abuse?