DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Report: Baker Not ready to compete with Tyrod

General question - I see comments like this every now and then. How long is a generation, in this context?

I also wanted Wilson ......

But I thought he's be a quality backup.

I mean in football terms, it's probably around 15-20 years as that's the expectancy of a QBs career if they are HOF quality. The real life generational gaps are between 20-30 years.

If those traits are truly generational, Baker will turn into a perennial top 3 QB that is THE top QB in many of the years as a pro.

There are many "good" QBs that peak and have a great year during their career and hang around for several productive years...Think Eli Manning... But few QBs are at the top of the mountain year in and year out...Those are considered "sports generational" type players in my mind. Obviously, it isn't literal as you can have a few at any given time. We just went through a time period where Peyton and Brady played side by side with Brees. I don't think there is any other sure fire HOF QB in recent memory since Brett Favre retired besides those 3. There are a LOT of QBs that have similar or better years than these 3, but not every single year like they do/did.

In pre-draft conversations, I believe the span of 'generational' compresses. For instance, 4 years ago Clowney was described as a generational DE. The following year Bosa was described as generational, the following year Garrett, and this last year I saw it used for Chubb. I'm thinking the life-span of a fruit fly may be your measure...at least as the draft approaches.

I believe "generational" or "once in a generation" is a figure of speech referring to a player's talent. I don't think it refers to just one player in a generation, there might be more than one or ten. I mean I'd consider Elway a generational talent like Tom Brady, peyton manning, maybe even andrew luck, etc...


My point being that all signs point to him being a stud. I think he's going to be great and great for us.

Generational should mean once in a generation. For the purposes of sports, once every 10 years or so is probably appropriate. But if we use the word too liberally, so that players coming out of college are described as generational in every draft, the word's meaning is diluted.

Edited to add; I don't disagree with your list of QBs. I think that is an appropriate application of the word.

Depends on who u talk to ... the folks that throw the word generational around like there wiping there ass do it every chance they get ...

John Elway was generational ... Andrew Luck was generational ... no one since then has been generational to those that don’t throw the “term” around loosely ....

Manning was a STUD coming out but no one said generational ... hell, he wasn’t even the consesus #1 ... Many thought Leaf was better ...

There’s been a ton af talent come out the last 3 years and i am going to have a blast watching them develop and seeing where they end up ... but none of them were generational ....

They may turn out to be great but that don’t mean they were generational coming out ... just look where two of the guys that are in everyones GOAT convo and where they were drafted ...

j/c:

I am just wondering why anyone would think that it's okay to slap the "generational" tag on Baker at this particular point in time?

I agree.

I think he can be a really good QB, maybe great, maybe not, but I don't think he is another Elway type where you knew the bust factor was maybe 2%.

Baker isn't fast, so you can take the Mike Vick stuff off the board.

He has a good to very good arm, but not one that stands far above other QB's.

He is pretty smart, but you never know how that is going to play.

He has desire, but not more than Tebow and that didn't work out.

I just look at "generational" as guys who define an era of football. Not just one. Brady, Brees, Manning (the eldest) have clearly defined this generation of QB play.


I believe guys like Garrett and Bosa and Mack will define the DE position (though Watt is the ultimate measuring stick)

WR's like Julio Jones, Antonio Brown and maybe, maybe Odell Beckham and AJ Green.

The all-pros in other words. The guys who are the identity of a team or unit. Not just "one" guy, there are 32 teams and millions apon millions of fans' memories to consider.

Tebow is a fun comparison. Similar in "desire" I'd say but nothing else really. I'm not sure I would have drafted Tebow in the third round let alone the first. Big difference in play, Tebow was a runner, Baker a passer. Tebow had awful arm motion and his delivery was so slow.

I think Baker's arm strength is very underrated. Some even consider him "noodle armed." But I disagree and I think he has elite arm strength. In fact he was second in velocity only to Josh Allen at the combine.

Speed isn't an absolute necessity. He's not a runner, although he will run, but he's a pocket passer first. Speed is always brought up when I talk to people about Baker, but I think it's not relevant to his style of play.

Tebow might be considered generational. However, Baker turned in the most efficient season in college history in 2016. And then he was even better in 2017! That's the type of thing a once in a generation player does...

I believe this is Tyrod’s ship, and baker will be a reincarnation of Carson Palmer.

Aka the last #1 qb to sit all year. Really hope we aren’t looking for a qb competition.

I was wondering the same....


If anything I would say that the word Engineered is the one that comes out when I think of Baker... a bit like Brady Quinn, if you ask me.

Hope I wrong....

Saquan, Edmunds and maybe Rosen were IMHO the "Generational" prospects this year.

According to Carr (which I respect) Josh Allen was the generational prospect QB....

Apparently, you guys haven't been paying attention.

The things he's done may never be duplicated.

I thought I was paying attention, but perhaps not. Would you post several links from noted QB/Draft Gurus or former NFL QBs who said that "Baker Mayfield is a generational qb?"

I could be wrong, but I believe the only person I've read that called Baker "a generational QB" was you. But, I will certainly pay "attention" this time if you could provide a few links. Thanks in advance.

Nobody thought this guy would be a generational QB either.

[img]https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2017...=1000&h=506[/img]


But don't get me wrong I am not sold one way or the other on Baker yet.

I assume your google is broken. Head down to your local library, google will work there.

Click Here

What things may not be duplicated?

Honestly, for example Colt McCoy has a higher completion % than Mayfield, more W's less L's...

Any Oklahoma QB will have good stats...so hardly hard to replicate, and his physical attributes, well... I won't say its a dime a dozen, but close.

Only thing that I'm afraid will be hard to duplicate is a prospect like him ever being taken #1 again, but we already had Jamarcus, so even then...

Thats what they said about David Klingler and then soon there after Akili Smith ...

College production is a HORRIBLE ASS indicator for how your going to do as a pro ..

Look at Joe Montana and Tom Brady ... not sure the careers of two college QB’s could be any different yet look at the results in the NFL ... and even with Joe’s INCREDIBLE college career he didn’t go til rnd 3 of the draft ...

Baker has the POTENTIAL to be a stud cause he’s accurate and smart ... as of right now its POTENTIAL with a BOATLAOD OF QUESTION MARKS to be answered ...

Thats it ... trying to say he’s going to be this or that based off college is COMPLETE and UTTER CRAP with a Capitol C ...

Mason Rudolph could end up the best QB in this class .. right now its a CRAPSHOOT as to who that will be ....

Poor Colt. Everyone always picks on him. He's the only QB we've drafted that hasn't "busted." One of the better back-up QB's and hey, the infamous 60% completion percentage...and more TD's than interceptions.

Not too shabby for a third round pick. At least so far as expecting a 3rd round pick to be a quality back up in this league. It's sad when you think back that a what 6-15 record as a Browns' starter is about as good as could be expected.

And,no, before anyone asks, I am not a fan of Colt. Just pointing out that, concussions aside, he is currently the best QB we've drafted in the last 15 or so years... yikes.

Yep. The same could be said for the guys between - and including - Baker and Mason.

There really is no reason to curb ones enthusiasm "IF" the Browns are going to get good and win more than they lose for once.

That's what we're here for.

And Hopefully Baker Mayfield is the all star quarterback, (Finally!), that Browns fans have been waiting for.

Your link is just a link to Google. Also, I had already googled "Baker Mayfield generational quarterback."

I'm not sure why you continually try to deceive people.

j/c

There wasn't even a consensus overall #1 QB pick this year at QB much less a QB in this draft that was considered generational.

It's fine to be excited about Mayfield and to hope for the best. It's fine to point out his strengths.

But to expect people to buy into some over the top hyperbole simply isn't being realistic.

I'm not sure what Mayfield will be, but it was a consensus, that if he was taller, there would have been no doubt about him being the number one pick. Height, was the only factor, he was near the top of the list in everything else that matters.


The talent must be there.

Is that true? I don't think you are trying to deceive anyone, but is it really true that there was consensus that Baker would have been the first overall pick if he were taller? Or, was that the talk on this board?

I seem to remember Darnold being the guy who was most talked about by most as being the first overall pick.

There was a lot of talk to that regard.

I thought, and still think, that Baker will be a good QB, but I don't know yet if he will be great.

I preferred Darnold because of his superior size/speed, and because of his ability to create on the move and outside the pocket.

We'll see what happens. I hope that I was really wrong.

I think the claim that people were saying Baker is a generational qb is false. I also think that Baker is vastly overrated.

With that being said, I'm just some dummy on a message board. He could end up being great. I just don't like when people paint false pictures.

I certainly hope he'll be a generational talent.

We'll see.

I do, too. And I never said that he would not be.

I am just disputing device's claim that he is a generational qb. I can show you the search page if you think I am wrong that he was not being talked about as a generational qb. Just ask.......I'll deliver.

Yeah, I am not debating that ... just adding my view. I didn't mean to make it seem as though I was.

Got it.

Dude called me a liar repeatedly. I won't call him a "liar," but trust me...............I haven't forgotten it.

Okay tab, please show me the links from QB and Draft experts that say Baker is a generational QB.

I researched the stuff before I asked the question. There is one post-draft report from the Browns that say that.

Otherwise, there is not squat!

The last QB coming out of the draft that had the "generational" tag was Andrew Luck. You can call me all then names you want to, but that won't alter the truth.

What? I never said you described him that way. device did. I asked him to provide links. He deflected.

I have stated that I'm just a dummy on a message board and I don't know if Baker will or will not be a generational qb. However, device saying that he is a generational qb is a false narrative. No one was saying that before the draft. And believe me, I wouldn't be arguing this strongly if I hadn't already done my research.

Heck, I would have let it all go, but device had to say that something about us not doing our research. Nah man, there were not a lot of experts talking about Baker being a generational qb before the draft.

And again.......that does not mean he won't be one, but I don't like guys like him blowing snow up our butts.

jc

Tf is a generational QB?

lol

Baker is a raw rookie who may or may not pan out as a starter.

Lets not send him to the hall of fame before he has even had a snap.

Ok. Thanks.

That's the best take I've seen on him. Those on either the love or hate spectrum are easily dismissed in my opinion.