DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Schobert

For those of you who are not sold on Joe just remember. Last year was his first year at MLB. He played on the outside in College at around 245 pounds. He dropped about 20 pounds before last season to help improve his speed and quickness.The biggest knock on him from last season seems to be his missed tackles and lack of strength. I believe with the entire off season to improve his strength without putting on weight, and his dedication to improving that most folks will be more impressed with Joe by the end of this season.

I hope you're correct! Having a solid, reliable rotation at LB will be nice ... especially if they can cover TE/RB on third downs

I hope your right ... just not so sure were not trying to fit the square peg in the round hole here ...

his strengths are well suited for outside LBer not so much for MLber ... u said he played outside in college ... i believe but am not positive that LBers are like OLman in that it is almost non existent that interior lineman in college end up at one of the tackle spots in the nfl ... i think the same can be said for outside LBer’s in college moving inside in a traditional 4 - 3 LBer role in the NFL ... I could be dead wrong here ...

It seems like he was forced to play inside last year ...

I had forgot he lost all the weight last year to improve his speed and quickness ... i am now wondering why that was the plan if we knew we were going to use him in the middle last year ... it doesn’t make sense ...

I think it's harder for a Mike or Inside LBer to move outside because those guys typically are not as fast, have poorer agility, and don't change direction as quickly. I think that's more important than an outside guy struggling w/a lack of strength and getting off blocks in the middle because the NFL has become a passing league.

I will say that Joe did struggle to get off blocks at times and he isn't the strongest guy.

I think Joe was asked to lose weight because Williams knew that he was going to have to use his Mike a ton in coverage. Our corners sucked and we had the worst pass defending safety tandem in the NFL.

Everything u said makes complete sense ... thanks for pointing it out ... my logic was reversed ... and that sucks for me cause i rely an awful lot on logic ... *L* ..... since I’ve never had any “formal” training ...

I’d go delete my post but then you’d look like the ass instead of me ... *L* ...

Thanks for correcting my flawed logic ...

I look like an ass regardless of what you do. LOL

I was just pointing out a couple of things. You actually made a good point about moving inside because some OLBers are way too weak to play in all the traffic inside. I just think [and you know this] that the game has really changed due to how many more receivers are on the field and the complex route trees in today's NFL.

U made great points ... Its why the board goes way down IMO when your gone ... i read very few posters religiously ... WHEN u talk football ... i NEVER miss a post of yours cause I know there’s a good chance I’m going to learn something ...

Blake Williams had this to say about Joe

"Blake Williams, his linebackers coach and the son of defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, simply didn't see him as an outside lienbacker.

"He's not a 3-4 outside linebacker," the younger Williams said during training camp. "That's kind of what he played in college, that's kind of what he played last year, but that's not what his body is."

Williams saw Schobert's athleticism and saw a guy who should be in the middle of a 4-3 -- or maybe he tracked down some youth football tape. That's the last time Schobert said he played middle linebacker."

I am excited to watch Joe this year and see just how much (if any) he improved his strength, and if he can clean up his missed tackles.

I think he definitely needs to improve his tackling and coverage abilities. I also think he's definitely not a FS.

I also mostly agree with Ytown, but for a slightly different reason. I think, with the benefit of hindsight, that Peppers was a luxury pick for a team that had far more pressing issues. Peppers would probably be really great playing within a more established defense in a utility role with a really creative DC... a role that simplifies his assignments and takes advantage of his physical abilities. He appears to be the wrong pick for a team that's starving for basic starter-level talent.


So that's a big post about Peppers in the Joe Schobert thread...

I like Joe. I think there's room for a couple of Joes on each team (heady, but not physically all that great).

So in the 2 LB set - we thought we would see regularly last year but didn't - wouldn't BOTH LBs need to be quicker than bigger?

I seem to remember many in here being highly critical of Skrine, Schwartz and Greco too and then once they were allowed to walk away, traded or cut the same people bemoaned it.

I'm in agreement all-around.... basically, last year was such a crap-show that I firmly believe that we got to see pretty much ZERO of what this defense is going to be. It was like a 21 week long training camp (counting preseason).

100%

That may be, but I said the same things about Peppers BEFORE the draft.

Yeah, I remember you and I both being pretty livid over the Peppers pick.

The one I remember better of people being most critical(me included) was Alex Mack, who really sucked but improved over time.

On the other hand we have: Trent Richardson, Justin Gilbert, Mingo, Weeden, Corey Colemon just to name a few first rounders who never improved....

Naming a few more... Phil T, Warren, B Edwards...

Thinking about it with all our extra first rounders over the years we may have had more first round ‘busts/to just average NFL talent’ picks since ‘99 than there have been years since ‘99.
It’s epic.

Really depressing to read. But overall, I rooted for them. But the phrase "didn't improve" might be too kind. Some of them did all they might manage to do. Clearly the NFL was too big for their ability.

I feel better about what we are putting on the field this year than I have for awhile, with the glaring exception of LT.

The number of high first round selections, those not even on the team anymore, those not even in the NFL anymore and just the number of first round selection misses have been the large anchor that has held this ship down. Surely that's our record and surely it's not ever going to be broken.

We still have yet to prove this. Garrett likely will be the next best first round pick we've handed out since Joe Thomas. 2007 was awhile ago gentleman.

Agreed. That’s why I’m done speculating. I don’t care about any of these guys. Where they were taken in the draft is irrelevant at this point. What their college stats were is meaningless. What they say in interviews. What they ate for breakfast. For the most part I don’t care to know their names even. They’re a numbered Browns jersey with an assigned position. Until they produce none of them mean a thing to me.
Same for the coaching staff. Same for the front office guys. I’m done listening to them talk too. Produce a winner or you’ll be a footnote just like Policy and Clark, Savage, Mangini, Holmgren, Farmer...

Mack struggled for a few games, but yeah, he never sucked. Dude has always been very good.

Yeah Schwartz and skrine were 2 of my favorite picks over the years and I remember defending them for years until the masses changed their mind once they progressed to an acceptable level, with Schwartz obviously greatly exceeding that level.

Really depends on the situation. If you're playing a nickel look as your base and the situation is not a must pass situation your on needs to make up for that extra cb2 by being proficient against the run. Not all nickel set ups are the same. That's why having 4 lbers is so valuable.

Even though this is a schobert thread I want to add to the peppers discussion. Everyone is calling him atrocious in coverage but no one is defending his man skills. Harp on his zone all day, certainly, but don't misinform the board on his man. He absolutely has above average, possibly better, as a SS. Even if he never developes his zone instincts or betters his pursuit angles his athletism, run game disruption and man are more than enough to dismiss this bust talk. He should and likely will be our answer to covering TEs and rbs.

Shobert is ok in my book, now when we drafted Peppers I was so disappointed but I don't think he is anywhere near a bust in fact I look forward to seeing him at SS, he will help immensely against the Running game ... JMHO

Go back,read Peppers draft reports....

Problem with Peppers is that almost all missed it, except the ones who got it right. Now credit due to who deserves credit. The ones saying he was overvalued, couldn't, lacked awareness and discipline, etc were right.

The ones like Harbaugh saying he with Luck were the fastest more knowledge players they ever coached have been proved, unfortunately, wrong.

Peppers is an intelligent player, but lacks football smarts, and his improvement was none. He can't still tackle, he can't sill read offenses and position himself right, he continues to do the same stupid mistakes from the start of the season.

Just go and watch how he was beaten on screens, how he continues to backpadle on the snap even lining up deep, how he persists to lower his head and throw his body to make tackles.

The closer you are to the LOS the more fundamentally sound,instinctive and disciplined you have to be. Peppers is all but that, and he has problems learning. He reminds me of Justin Gilbert...

On the other side, and the other pick I hated, which was Njoku, who has been learning and improving and learning the fundamentals. He's not stellar still, but a great athlete that has been improving and learning how to catch, not a college DIVA that refuses to correct his game, like Peppers and Gilbert that after a full season still looks like a fool tackling but brags when makes a lucky play.

Lack of proper tackling fundamentals costed the Patriots this years SB... Amazes me how football people value D players that can't even tackle, I'm sure that BB will never ever make that mistake again.

The way that the rules are now,either it will be a penalty most of the times, or he will dragged by the RB, cause you can't arm tackle an NFL RB.


And if JP was atrocious on PA and screens lining up deep, imagine him closer to the LOS...

Hope I'm wrong... but that would be the first time in the case of Peppers.

I'd have to defend the Njoku pick just because the modern game is asking so much in regards to raw athletic ability when it comes to tight end.

That said, I'm fairly confident when I say the majority of people who were able to swallow the Peppers pick did so because of his potential as a SS/nickle linebacker in our defensive scheme (ala Mark Baron). I can't remember too many folks actually "liking" the pick as that is a highly specialized role that appears on only a few teams and subsequently is not a 1st round level investment.

In other words, fear not, most people,like you, did not like the pick (at least not when compared to the "coulda, woulda, shoulda alternative options).


Then again I could be mis-remembering

I actually think that Njoku gets too much love on here. A lot of people seem to be counting on a big year from him. His name comes often when talking about most productive, keys to winning, etc.

I saw his rookie season like this:

--Flashed tremendous athleticism
--Can run fast and jump high
--Made some very big plays

-Inconsistent hands
-Poor blocker
-Seemingly was lost when it came to running routes and recognizing holes in zone coverage.

I think he has a ton of potential and could end up being a huge weapon for us. However, I think it is too early to count on that because there have been untold numbers of great athletes that never mastered the nuances of the game.

I'm in the "wait-and-see" camp.

For some reason, no one likes Devalve, and he was the # 2 receiver on last year's team. I will admit that being # 2 on an 0 -16 team does not mean much, but he was still did a better job at TE than Njoku.

Same ordeal with Kirko... plays at a pretty decently high level and doesn't get talked about or much credit.

I don't think it's a matter of "not liking" Seth though, just not acknowledging him.

I like DeValve quite a lot. I think that he can be an explosive down the seam, if he has a QB willing to make those throws. I think that he still needs some development in running routes, and as a blocker, but the physical ability is certainly there.

Wow ... i had NO CLUE he was our 2nd leading reciever ... NONE ..

I want to say i was very dissapointed with him last year .... but with our QB play its so hard to judge him ..

Bro, I just looked it up. You're gonna get a kick out of this one.

Browns leading receivers in 2017:

Duke: 693 yards

DeValve: 395 yards

Njoku: 386 yards

I like Seth. I don't ever believe is is going to be a Hall Of Famer, or even a Pro Bowl player. But he can be a solid TE in this league.

Devalve has good hands but he does very after the catch.
he rarely out runs anybody and much like Jordan Cameron is very easy to bring down
Devalve reminds me of Orchard and Nassib.young players who will never be more than average players who fail to show up consistantly