DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Training Camp part 2

I am not at all concerned with him being able to play Friday night. This is the situation where you rest a player to make sure that he gets healthy.

I'm not even sure he's there on the depth chart. Last I heard it isn't looking good there. He's a player I was pretty sure I was right about but was hoping I was wrong about.

Stiff competition for Biggest Disappointment.

Have an award for Hard Knocks coverage and treatment? How about MVC (most valuable coaching)?

Why play him at all? Get healthy indeed!

j/c:

DL #73 BLAINE WOODSON, DELAWARE, 2017

Rookie of the year 2014, Freshman all American 2014, 2014, 2015, and 2017 second team all CAA, 44 consecutive starts at UD, 159 career tackles, 21.5 career TFL's, 15 career sacks. 2017: 55 tackles, 3.5 TFL's 3 sacks, 1 INT

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/er...veland-bro.html

What happened at Cleveland Browns training camp Day 15
By Mary Kay Cabot with Josh Gunter and John Kuntz -

cleveland.com | Posted August 15, 2018 at 07:43 PM



BEREA, Ohio - Day 15 marked the last day of Browns training camp open to the public, and Hue Jackson expressed his appreciation for the thousands of fans who came out.
"I can never say enough about our fans,'' Jackson said. "Our fans are outstanding - some of the best fans in the world. They come out and support the team. Hopefully, our team has given back to them, but nothing will change until we start winning football games. We're thankful that they come out every day and support us. They kind of pushed us through today. Today was a grind day for our players. I could feel it. They were able to get through because the fans are always out there screaming and cheering for them."
One of the fans was Mae Packan, a 104-year-old former season ticket holder during the Jim Brown era. She met Browns GM John Dorsey, Jackson and Bernie Kosar.
Offensive coordinator Todd Haley addressed the media before practice and stressed that he's in full support of Jackson.
"The great thing about here is Coach Jackson gives us assistant coaches the opportunity to speak our opinion,'' Haley said. "It's not always the case where assistants get to voice an opinion or thoughts. Whatever decision is made, I'm 100 percent behind."

Here are some highlights of the day:

1. Jarvis Landry's one-handed catch.



Landry treated fans to one of his vintage one-handed catches on the final day open to the public. It was a 25-yarder from Tyrod Taylor over Briean Boddy-Calhoun in front of hundreds of fans in the bleachers. He then flipped the ball into the stands and flexed a few times to the roar of the crowd.


Jackson acknowledged the one-handed specials energized everyone.
"He does things almost every day that make us go 'wow.' Those are the plays we are going to have to make in key moments this year as we go. He is going to be one of those guys that has to make those plays."
They're becoming contagious. In recent days, Rashard Higgins and David Njoku have made one-handed grabs.

2. Baker Mayfield or Drew Stanton as backup?

Jackson acknowledged he'll have a touch choice to make at backup QB if Tyrod Taylor goes down early on in the season. Does he go with 12-year veteran Drew Stanton, or Baker Mayfield, who's taken all the second-team reps in practice?
"If something were to happen, we'd have to make a heck of a decision on which road we travel,'' said Jackson. "I want to know more about him, and he's been great at practice. You have to put guys in game situations, and let them play."

3. Tyrod Taylor and the starters will play more.

Taylor and the starters will play more Friday night against the Bills than the two series they got in the 20-10 victory over the Giants. Mayfield will play second and Stanton third.
"Obviously, I want to see them play longer than they played last week - a quarter or whatever that is, maybe a little longer,'' said Jackson. "It all depends on how it is going. I definitely want them out there longer than eight plays. If the results are touchdowns, we will keep going. We just need to play a little bit more."
As for Mayfield's playing time, "you never know how that's going to unfold. I want him to play again and get some good exposure to another defense. At the same time, I also want to see Drew play. Baker will definitely go second, and then we will kind of go from there."

4. E.J. Gaines breaks up passes.

Gaines, who's backing up Denzel Ward, broke up three passes in team drills, one to Antonio Callaway, one to Jeff Janis and one to Evan Berry. Signed as a free agent in the offseason from the Bills, Gaines will challenge for some playing time with more practices like that...Rookie linebacker Genard Avery also had an active day, getting good pressure off the edge in third-down drills.



5. Todd Haley on Baker Mayfield




Haley was impressed with Mayfield's debut against the Giants.
"It wasn't too big for him,'' said Haley. "He was by no means perfect, but he kept his cool and he was never flustered. It's clear to everybody that he can throw the football.''
He noted that Mayfield is making good progress and taking full advantage of mentors Taylor and Stanton.

6. Rashard Higgins 65-yard TD catch
Higgins closed out an excellent open portion of camp with a 65-yard rolling TD catch from Taylor down the left sideline over second-year pro Denzel Rice. Landry has been the MVP of camp, but Higgins has been a surprise runner-up. He's caught everything within reach in practice, and 4-of-5 targets for 66 yards against the Giants.

Makes sense.

Higgins has had a really, really good camp

Looking forward to seeing Avery get his first action.

He's still my sleeper draft pick. I too am looking forward to seeing him in action.

We have really made a silk purse out of a sows ear ... With our LBer unit over the past couple of years. Avery could be the cherry on top of the Sunday.

He's been terrific from all I've read, has been a nice surprise, and looked good against the Giants. I hadn't been counting much on him, but he's delivered so far.

Pretty crazy that we cut him last year, re-signed him midseason, he had a great game his first one back, and then he was basically not heard from again. Weird trajectory.

Why do you always make things up? The dude had 3 catches for 68 yards and 2 TDs in the last game of the season.

That's why we used to have to post links to that kind of information, to keep the board accurate. That way no one repeats information like that thinking it's real. When that snowballs the knowledge of the board just gets watered down.

It's pretty much now become 'My memory and opinions are as good as your facts.'

same here

I want to see more from him. Higgins seemed like he just started to see most of it. Not like he got overwhelming chances. cashed out on those a few times.

He threw the ball... I just don't get why he was so mad

A bit out of character, with all he intensity talk and wanting more from the fellows, IMHO.

He should be praising the defender for the intensity, finishing the play, etc.... the stepping wasn't that bad..

I liked that he was smart enough to not use his hand, but didn't like what followed.

Didn't see anything wrong with what happened by Mitchell. He's out there, playing hard, trying to get a starting spot.

Football's intense. Things happen. Hopefully they can chill out and get over it.

The Cleveland Brown who's the true gauge of this season

https://www.cleveland.com/expo/sports/er...art_river_index



3 REASONS CHRIS HUBBARD IS THE DEFINING PLAYER ON THE BROWNS

Nothing's set, but a rough guess at the Browns starting 22 for week one would give you 13 players drafted as Browns, six signed as free agents and three acquired through trade, including starting quarterback Tyrod Taylor.

The Browns need many of the draft picks to hit big - Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward, Jabrill Peppers, David Njoku, Austin Corbett, Antonio Callaway. The free agents arrived either for huge money or seeking chances they couldn't find elsewhere - Kevin Zeitler, JC Tretter, Terrance Mitchell, Carlos Hyde.

But if the Browns are going to succeed, there's a guy who will show how good teams do things right. And you've barely heard his name this preseason, which is a good thing.

Here are three reasons Chris Hubbard, the Browns starting right tackle, is the player I'm using as a gauge for this season.

3. He's optimistic
Hubbard is the kind of guy who wakes up before his alarm, even during preseason camp. He doesn't drag himself out of bed. He jumps out of it.

"It's a new day to get better," Hubbard said of his attitude each morning. "I always tell myself it's a new day to put in work. And you're alive, man. It's another day to be alive, to be alive and come to work and do what you love to do. That's a blessing."

Hubbard talked that talk earlier in camp, but Friday night he walked that walk after the second preseason game, a smile on his face in the locker room after another job well done.

He knows he's got this right tackle job down, and the 27-year-old is pushing himself through camp as a man who finally found what he was looking for.

"Never take it for granted, because you never know what might happen," Hubbard said.

Hubbard signed a five-year, $37.5 million contract with the Browns in March. He left the Pittsburgh Steelers to come to Cleveland, with the chance of a starting job and a whole lot of money leading him here. Some friends called him crazy.

"I got some of that, but you can't worry about what's said," Hubbard said. "Let the doubters doubt. The winners keep winning."

It does not take long to like Chris Hubbard. He and his wife, Tamara, have a son, Creed, who's almost two. Hubbard, who was born in Georgia and played football at Alabama-Birmingham, is a Southerner still adjusting to snow and cold. He carries his own warmth.

"I love football, and it's a way for me to support my family in tremendous ways," Hubbard said. "It's beautiful and this game is beautiful."


2. He's got Steeler blood
Hubbard developed in Pittsburgh for four years, an undrafted free agent who was cut twice by the Steelers but always came back, never sure he was going to make it.

"I had no idea," Hubbard said. "I was working my butt off and wishing and praying and hoping that my time would come."

Along the way, he played every position on the line, and started 10 games at tackle last season when Pittsburgh's offensive line was hit by injuries.

While Browns coach Hue Jackson has bemoaned some of the bad habits he's seen in camp with a team that won a single game in the last two seasons, Hubbard was raised in a different NFL culture.

"In Pittsburgh, you know it's going to be hard during training camp," Hubbard said. "You know it's going to be tough. You know they're going to scheme as much as possible, and you know they're going to run the ball. Being in Pittsburgh taught me to be tough, mentally tough. Coach (Mike) Tomlin has installed mental and physical toughness in the way he does practices and how things are set up."

I don't buy any excuse that the Browns are awash in negative habits created the last two years. Many of the players who made the plays to lose those games are gone. Those retained are smart veterans who know how to work and young talents with a desire to change things. Add a few outside forces, and there's no reason for what happened to the Browns in 2016 and 2017 to linger.

But it's not a bad thing to add a guy like Hubbard, who doesn't know anything but winning, and who, by the way, carried with him serious faith in former Steelers offensive coordinator and new Browns offensive coordinator Todd Haley.

"Trusting Todd, I know what he's capable of," Hubbard said.

No, not a bad thing at all.



1. He's the perfect middle man
The Browns have failed in the middle, in the heart of the roster, in the area below the game-changers and Pro Bowlers, in the place with the guys who do their jobs and don't make mistakes.

Hubbard is that. He wasn't a full-time starter in Pittsburgh, but he showed he can play. He wasn't signed off a scrap heap, or persuaded with astronomical money. But he was paid handsomely, in a way that shows the Browns need him to come through.

He's not a big thing, but he must be a sure thing.

"There's no doubt about that," Jackson said early in camp with asked if Hubbard could do what the Browns needed at right tackle. "He has done a great job. He's been a really good find for us. I'm excited about him and what he's doing."

If you hand someone a $37.5 million contract, you didn't exactly find him, but the point stands.

If Hubbard is one of the Browns 10 best players, then the Browns probably aren't good enough.

If Hubbard isn't one of their 14 or 16 or 18 best players, then they are probably in trouble.

He is the perfect player for the middle of the roster, and Thursday night he did what was asked. He won battles and cleared holes and protected Tyrod Taylor.

He came here for the chance, signed before Joe Thomas retired, but told from the start what the Browns wanted him to do.

"They told me I was going to play right tackle, and that was enough for me," Hubbard said. "I wanted to play right tackle for a long time. I played right tackle in college. So that was icing on the cake."

That's why he's the gauge. Of course, the Browns need top-five picks like Garrett, Ward and Baker Mayfield to lead this team forward. Of course they need well-paid veterans like Joel Bitonio and Jarvis Landry to maintain their high standards. They need young players to develop and a couple guys to surprise.

But they also need the types of players the Browns have been missing.

Smart, tough, optimistic, winning players who just do what they're supposed to do.

It shouldn't be that hard, but in Cleveland, it has been.

"I didn't come here to fail my teammates," Hubbard said. "I'm willing to put my hand in the pile as much as possible. And we're gonna win."

Mayfield and Garrett must lead this climb out of the NFL basement. But it won't work unless the Browns have enough Chris Hubbards holding them up.

Cleveland Browns: Talking Tyrod Taylor, Dez Bryant, big picture -- Terry Pluto

https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ss...art_river_index


ABOUT TYROD TAYLOR

1. The Browns putting their power running game on display is critical to the team's success. With Tyrod Taylor as the quarterback, the team absolutely must run the ball with authority. Taylor is not a quarterback who is supposed throw the ball 35 times a game and win it with his arm.

2. New General Manager John Dorsey seems to have been designing this approach from the moment he took the job last December. He watched an inexperienced and overwhelmed DeShone Kizer continually turn the ball over. He saw an inconsistent running game, partly because Hue Jackson was not committed to making it work.

3. Dorsey brought in Taylor, who threw only four interceptions last season. He signed Carlos Hyde, a tractor of a running back with the San Francisco 49ers. He used the second-round pick acquired in the Brock Osweiler deal to draft Nick Chubb, another powerful running back.

4. In Friday's 19-17 preseason loss to Buffalo, the Browns scored on their first possession. They went 70 yards in nine plays, the 230-pound Hyde rumbling into the end zone from 4 yards. Taylor threw the ball twice, a 7-yarder to tight end Darren Fells being the only completion.

5. Obviously, the Browns can't pretend this is 1953 and run the ball nearly every play. But offensive coordinator Todd Haley took the approach of, "We're gonna run it, let's see if you can stop it." Big backs such as Hyde and Chubb can develop a rhythm when the ball is placed in their hands a lot. A good offensive line loves to run-block. They also develop a rhythm.

6. A strong running game can demoralize an opposing defense. In the macho world of football, it's embarrassing for a defense to be run over as the Bills were in that first possession.

7. Browns fans did see some glimpses of why the Bills and their fans became discouraged with Taylor, despite the quarterback leading their team to the playoffs. He's not a big-play guy. He sometimes will simply throw the ball away rather than try to make a somewhat risky throw into a tight spot. Taylor was 4-of-7 passing for only 22 yards. He completed a 19-yarder to Rashard Higgins, but that was his only throw of note.

8. Dorsey's plan is basic - play basic football. Run the ball. Be physical. Throw it at times, but be smart. The Browns have not used Jarvis Landry much in the preseason, but the star receiver will be a big part of this plan. If things work right, you will see a lot of long drives chewing up time on the clock.

9. Hyde had only one carry in the first preseason game. He finished with 64 yards in nine attempts vs. Buffalo. Here's what Jackson said: "He's a big guy who has some wiggle, more wiggle than people think." Hyde as the ability to make a quick fake, then run hard in another direction -- the wiggle.

10. Jackson on Chubb: "He is a physical man. He is a big guy. He has to always fall forward with the ball. That's what we need. We need a guy who is heading north and south, not east and west."

11. Jackson means the 5-foot-11, 227-pound Chubb doesn't dance in the backfield (going east/west), he runs straight ahead. Chubb averaged 6.0 yards per carry and ran for 1,345 yards at Georgia last season. He had 53 yards in 11 carries vs. the Bills.

12. One of the reasons the Browns didn't rush to re-sign Isaiah Crowell was the east/west running style he used at times. It bothered the coaches. It obviously didn't impress Dorsey. A free agent after 2017, Crowell signed with the Jets. In his last two years with the Browns, Crowell averaged 4.3 yards per carry. He has talent. Dorsey wanted to pick his own, more physical running backs.

13. An encouraging part of the running game is starting guard Kevin Zeitler. He is out with a calf injury. The Browns had rookie Austin Corbett at one guard, third-year man Spencer Drango at the other guard. Those guys blocked well, helping the inside running game.

14. Browns fans will have to be patient with Taylor and the offense. For the running game to work, play calling has to be persistent. When they run into the line and are stalled a few times, they can't start throwing the ball all over the field. That tended to be the Browns' play calling in the past few years with Jackson. He'd act as if they were down by 17 points when it was a 7-point deficit.

15. Bottom line: The Browns are not set up to play an eye-popping offense. But a strong running game is exactly what this team needs. And here's something else very significant: In the Browns' first two preseason games, no Cleveland quarterback has thrown an interception.


ABOUT DEZ BRYANT

1. Dez Bryant spent about 36 hours in Cleveland with the Browns. He met with coaches, front office people and a few players. He gave hints of liking the situation.

2. Bryant had his agent with him. Usually when a player shows up with an agent, a deal is a distinct possibility. But after the 36 hours, Bryant left town -- no deal...yet.

3. The 29-year-old receiver still doesn't have a job with the regular season three weeks away. There is a strange lack of urgency on both sides. It took more than a week for Bryant and the Browns to set up an interview. Then he leaves without a deal.

4. I don't know what type of contract the Browns offered -- if any. Nor do I know what Bryant wants in terms of deal. Maybe this works out in a few days, but it seems odd.

5. Did Bryant hope to use the visit to Cleveland to stir up interest from other teams? It's doubtful the Browns were high on his list when he became a free agent in April.

6. I wrote a column against the signing of Bryant, who led the NFL with 12 dropped passes last season. If they do sign him, it's not a major mistake. But as time passes, I wonder if he would be in shape for the regular season. Can he stay healthy? Teams do have training camp for a reason. He also would have to learn a new offense. He only played in Dallas under the offense designed by coach Jason Garrett.

7. Meanwhile, Josh Gordon has returned to the team. The receiver can attend team meetings and work out, but he's not yet ready to practice. Perhaps Gordon's status is impacting Bryant's situation.


ABOUT THE BROWNS

1. I can't decide what has been worse for the Browns: The lousy special teams play or all the penalties. Both of those problems will lead to a team losing close games. The punt coverage team allowed returns of 39 and 29 yards. On another coverage, veteran Jeff Janis was flagged for a silly penalty of interfering with a player calling for a fair catch.

2. The Browns had 13 penalties for 141 yards. They were called for three offensive pass interference penalties. There has been some sloppy football in these areas in the first games, and the starters are guilty of some of it.

3. I have a feeling Ross Martin (Solon, Walsh High) is very close to taking the kicking job away from Zane Gonzalez.

4. Lots is being written about Baker Mayfield. In general, he was solid. He stays in the pocket, but moves slightly to create good throwing angles. His poise is impressive. He's still learning, but the rookie is off to a good start.

5. The Browns had a fourth-and-1 on their own 49-yard line. It was the first quarter. The emphasis all night was on running the ball to pick up tough yardage. What did the Browns do? Jackson ordered a punt! I almost screamed, WHY? JUST RUN IT! IT'S THE PRESEASON!

6. Rookie Genard Avery, Carl Nassib and Nate Orchard appear to be competing for two spots on the defense. A fifth-rounder, Avery has been impressive in camp. He should make the team. Not sure, but it's possible Nassib or Orchard could be cut. Orchard can help on special teams.

7. Orchard was drafted in 2015 by Ray Farmer. Nassib was drafted in 2016 by Sashi Brown. Avery was picked in 2018 by Dorsey. Just shows all the change the players have endured.

8. Myles Garrett and Larry Ogunjobi both were impressive on the defensive line. Ogunjobi has a chance to be one of Shashi Brown's best draft picks.

Vers.

THAT is what I'm always referring to.

Hubbard has looked really good so far. He can really move for a big guy ... had a few nice pulls the other night

not sure I buy Terry's assertion that we want to be so run-oriented and ball-possessive on offense.

I think we want to be able to do BOTH. With playmakers like Landry, Gordon, Duke, Njoku, Callaway, (and maybe Dez) ... we aren't just gonna be a run team.

I keep seeing these two points together.

It's THE PRESEASON, and our run game looked good, and our special teams needs work, so he wanted to get practice punting to pin the other team back with bad field position. You can't have everything!

I said St the time that it's preseason for the punter too, and he needs situational work.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24417425/cincinnati-bengals-release-veteran-safety-george-iloka


George Iloka?

That's one of the things you have to put up with when Hue is your HC. Penalties. It's part of the reason he lost his job in Oakland.

agreed ... lack of discipline and preparation is not good.

EJ Gaines had a serious knee injury today ... dang

That sucks...

It sure does. Fortunately, we have a great deal of depth there, and Breeland is still out there. We were interested him recently, and maybe we bring him in now.

This is especially true when T.J Carrie has, unfortunately, not been getting rave reviews. He seems like a big-time signing, and the early money was on both Ward and Carrie earning the starting spots.

It's a positive that Ward and Mitchell have been such bright spots, and I'm still a big fan of BBC in spite of his seemingly odd usage this season.

Multiple outlets, including the players, coaches and media, have pointed out that Denzel Rice has been on of the pleasant surprises of camp. I wonder if we'll see him with a larger role moving forward to help the Browns determine if additional moves need to be made.

Damn shame if E.J Gaines misses extended time. To have already lost Howard Wilson was disappointing, and this would just flat out suck.

Carrie has sucked in TC (didn't look terrible in the games) .. but it wouldn't surprise me to see us pick up a vet in the secondary in a week or two

Camp cuts are going to be big for us. We have first priority on the waiver wire. Surely a few guys cut are going to be better than a few of the guys we will keep to that point.