So was Josh Gordon kinda suspended or not? If the NFL won't say, we still might be able to figure it out.
Josh Gordon is not fully back as an NFL player. For now, the NFL is restricting him to attending meetings and strength and conditioning workouts. In due time, he will be permitted to practice. Maybe concurrently with freedom to practice or maybe some time after, he will finally be permitted to play in actual games.
With all these restrictions, the question has arisen, was Josh Gordon suspended for something? If so, for what? If not, then why all these restrictions which bear a striking similarity to the restrictions placed upon him the last time he came off of suspension?
Here is a possible way to figure out an answer to these questions, since it seems unlikely that the NFL will ever embrace openness and transparency in these matters.
If Josh does, say, meetings and workouts this week, is allowed to practice next week, and plays in the final pre-season game and then starts the season - he wasn't suspended and the NFL was just doing a careful, graduated, ease-him-into-it return to football. The schedule I detailed was just an example - the timetable could vary quite a bit. They key is, Josh plays in the first regular season game against the Steelers.
But, if the graduated return stretches out longer than that, if Josh Gordon is restricted from playing in the first regular season game or two (or more?) - then Josh was suspended. The NFL can't prohibit a player from earning regular season paychecks without suspending him for some valid reason.
Admittedly there are some holes here and there in these scenarios. Neither one could be considered as definitive proof as to whether or not Josh was suspended. But they could provide strong circumstantial evidence.
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
You must have a learning disability. He was never suspended, he never failed a drug test, there is no "reinstatement needed. The team and medical staff has to approve him returning, and the commissioner has to sign off on it.
Once he passes a physical, and the team doctors say he is ready to practice, he will. Much to your dismay
I wasn't concerned about him being ready to take some snaps , as I was , will the league let him play ????
I see absolutely no reason why not ... it appears he did zero wrong ..... who knows why he was absent ... your guess is as good as mine ... mine is he didnt want to deal with hard knocks ... but who the hell knows ...
What i think is clearly evident is this has zero to do with a diluted, missed or failed test ... no way that hasn’t;t gotten out by now and if w=it was a failed test we’d definetly know by the ban ...
The league having to clear him is a formality ... just part of the programs process and red tape ...
He’ll be cleared ... im hoping by practice on Saturday or Sunday ... thats based on me ASSuming we play this thursday ... that’d give him two weeks of practice ...
The league will clear him my friend ... i dont know anything else about this but i do know that ... *L* ....
We don't even know if Gordon will be cleared to play by week 1.
Just saying .....
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
We don't even know if Gordon will be cleared to play by week 1.
Just saying .....
this will ultimately be up to the team on when he comes back.
and lets be real: there's no way he isn't playing week 1, unless he's injured.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Gordon has to apply for reinstatement, just like he has, so many times, in the past. The Commissioner has to approve his reinstatement.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
you need to take a listen to hue's recent presser.
while the nfl ultimately has to sign off on it, the timetable on when gordon can come back is up to the team.
this isnt a case of a suspension due to drugs where the only people with any say so is the league.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Gordon has to apply for reinstatement, just like he has, so many times, in the past. The Commissioner has to approve his reinstatement.
Stop it. Just... STOP IT!
You are upsetting the fanbois with your widely reported and verified, loathsome facts - you, you, you... hater you!
?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
im just trying to figure out how a harmless convo about a timetable of gordon's return resulted in talks about fanboying. its a bit odd.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
If Gordon failed another test we would all know about it because the NFL leaks everything. He would already be suspended. The NFL also doesn't "go easy" on anyone, they wouldn't give Gordon leniency just because they like him.
Great to have him back. I'm glad he was willing to identify issues and step away to ensure his sobriety and mental health.
It's great to see how excited the team is to have him back. Damion Ratley, in particular, really stood out with his comments. That's on the back of a nice pair of catches against Buffalo and a strong week of practice, per Hue Jackson. Happy for the kid, I like seeing later-round picks making an impact.
Gordon looks phenomenal, so I'd anticipate he'll be ready for the season opener. Always hard to tell, and he's certainly playing catch up, but his athleticism hasn't ever let him down.
Some folks around here seem to think that I am either stupid, crazy, confused, or a liar because I stated the following things:
Josh Gordon, for the time being, is only allowed to attend meetings, do strength and conditioning workouts, and watch practice from the sidelines. He may NOT practice at this time.
In due time, Josh Gordon will be allowed to practice on the field.
ONLY with permission of the NFL, will Josh Gordon be fully reinstated to play in regular season NFL games.
There is no guarantee that Josh Gordon will be allowed to play in the Browns first game on September 9 against the Steelers.
I stand by these statements not just as my opinions, but as statements of hard fact.
These facts have been verified by news reporters and widely reported in a variety of news media.
Below I cite these news media with links and relevant quotes from the articles.
NFL Network's Tom Pelissero notes Gordon's return to the team is subject to certain conditions as he is still part of the NFL's substance abuse program. He can attend meetings and practices, but he cannot participate. Per Pelissero, no timetable has been set on the next steps in the process.
League spokesman Brian McCarthy told cleveland.com that Gordon's return to the team is 'part of the process. (He continues) to make progress. No timetable for the next steps.''
He said Gordon's treatment plan, which falls under the NFL's policy on substances of abuse, is a collaborative effort on the part of the league, the Browns and Gordon and his representatives. The NFLPA is also kept apprised of the protocol.
McCarthy said Gordon can attend all meetings and conditioning sessions, but can't practice yet. He can watch practice, but not participate. If all goes well, he can be on the field for the opener against the Steelers Sept. 9th. It's not yet known if he'll play in the dress rehearsal game Thursday night against the Eagles.
“We are glad Josh has reached a point where he can return to our organization, be in our building and be around his teammates,” GM John Dorsey said in a statement. “As he assimilates back to our team, Josh will initially participate in meetings and conditioning and will gradually resume all football activities as deemed appropriate.”
Gordon must be cleared by the NFL to resume football activities, which means he has to continue to pass drug tests and adhere to the guidelines set forth by the league medical advisors administering his ongoing rehab program.
As part of Gordon’s substance-abuse program overseen by the league’s medical director, he’ll be able to attend meetings and participate in conditioning with the Browns. But he won’t be permitted to practice until the NFL grants approval, league spokesman Brian McCarthy said.
“This is part of the process,” McCarthy wrote in an email. “There’s no timetable on next steps.”
Cleveland Browns receiver Josh Gordon has returned to the team, but he still has some hurdles to jump before he’s fully reinstated by the NFL.
That means Gordon will not practice let alone play until the league determines he’s ready to do so. Gordon’s treatment plan is managed by the NFL, so they will make the call on when he has satisfied that jointly negotiated—by the player, league, team—treatment plan.
NFL Network reported that conditions of his reinstatement dating to last year dictate that the NFL, not the team, will decide when Gordon is eligible to participate in football activities.
That means he’s not certain to be available for the Sept. 9 season opener and that there’s no timetable for a return to the field.
Didn't Gordon withdraw himself from team activities by his own accord and had nothing to do with NFL policies?
Why would the NFL need to reinstate him if he was not removed from an active player status.
If I recall correctly, the league has to sign off on any Gordon return to active status other than injury due to his being in advanced policy. Everything that has been said by everyone concerned has indicated that will be a formality rather than a hurdle.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
Some folks around here seem to think that I am either stupid, crazy, confused, or a liar because I stated the following things:
Josh Gordon, for the time being, is only allowed to attend meetings, do strength and conditioning workouts, and watch practice from the sidelines. He may NOT practice at this time.
In due time, Josh Gordon will be allowed to practice on the field.
ONLY with permission of the NFL, will Josh Gordon be fully reinstated to play in regular season NFL games.
There is no guarantee that Josh Gordon will be allowed to play in the Browns first game on September 9 against the Steelers.
I stand by these statements not just as my opinions, but as statements of hard fact.
These facts have been verified by news reporters and widely reported in a variety of news media.
Below I cite these news media with links and relevant quotes from the articles.
Facts, ladies and gentlemen. Facts.
Well done, those are now facts, but only because you've stated those facts without framing them from Gordon being, "... kinda suspended" (#1490468, p.6), because he, "... blazed up, or shot up, or snorted up again and got caught in a drug test."(#1490221, p. 5)
Removing the conspiracy theories attached to the facts indeed leaves only the facts remaining.
He's an additional fact: You know why you got called out, and now you're playing innocent.
I don’t agree with your outlook on meathead (great nickname BTW ... it fits perfectly .. he’s certainly been one .. )
Anyhow ..
- i dont believe your any of the things u stated some may think u are ....
- i also dont agree with your outlook on meathead ...
- i also dont like the fact u state the facts but then don’t talk about the FACT its a formality ...
With that said .. I really like your style and approach and enjoy reading U .. U make it enjoyable to read even though I NEVER agree with your summations ...
Some folks around here seem to think that I am either stupid, crazy, confused, or a liar because I stated the following things:
Josh Gordon, for the time being, is only allowed to attend meetings, do strength and conditioning workouts, and watch practice from the sidelines. He may NOT practice at this time.
In due time, Josh Gordon will be allowed to practice on the field.
ONLY with permission of the NFL, will Josh Gordon be fully reinstated to play in regular season NFL games.
There is no guarantee that Josh Gordon will be allowed to play in the Browns first game on September 9 against the Steelers.
Well done, those are now facts, but only because you've stated those facts without framing them from Gordon being, "... kinda suspended" (#1490468, p.6), because he, "... blazed up, or shot up, or snorted up again and got caught in a drug test."(#1490221, p. 5)
Removing the conspiracy theories attached to the facts indeed leaves only the facts remaining.
He's an additional fact: You know why you got called out, and now you're playing innocent.
Given your position, I think these are fair critiques you make. If we can both agree on the facts listed above, allow me to try to persuade you that my "conspiracy theories" are instead quite plausible theories.
My argument rests on the facts quoted above and the following three notions: 1. The NFL has quietly revamped its drug treatment program for the better. 2. For the first time, nobody has any incentive to leak to the media that Josh Gordon failed a drug test. 3. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and swims like a duck, it's some sort of duck, i.e. it's a suspension, well... mini-suspension with brief but aggressive rehab.
First Notion The NFL was getting rightfully roasted alive for its stupid suspension policies. Wife beaters were getting suspended, maybe, for two to four games while pot smokers on their third bust were suspended for an entire year. This was prima facie idiocy, as we've all come to expect from Roger Goodell and the NFL League Office.
But after so many savage beatings with a cluebat, even the arrogant, ignorant suits in the NFL wised up and implemented new repeat drug offender policies. They are now focused far more on treatment and far less on punishment. Nowadays, the new policy is to run people through rehab and counseling, providing support, while using fairly mild punishments. The days when repeat drug abusers suffered year long suspensions are gone. Sanity has prevailed, even in the NFL.
In support of this notion, I offer the following article and quote from Tony Grossi who follows this NFL issue closely and who has consistently supported Josh Gordon the person throughout the years. He is also a huge advocate of the Browns keeping Josh Gordon on the roster and working with him to help him overcome his problems.
It also may be why the NFL seems to be handling Gordon with more compassion than is written in the league’s intervention program guidelines.
I believe the NFL, particularly Commissioner Roger Goodell, has been sympathetic to Gordon since a face-to-face meeting in November.
When Gordon returned from two years of indefinite suspension in November, he said of Goodell, “He’s been with me side by side. Talking with him, he continued to show that love and support and I’m grateful to have him in my corner. I know I can lean on him and rely on him. He’s been open and available and just overall a real asset to me.”
What happened, in my opinion, is that Goodell personally heard from Gordon the backstory of his life of addiction and with no father to guide him. And in that conversation, I suppose the subject of Gordon’s daughters with two mothers came up, and the complications they added to his addiction problems.
So Goodell -- who can be compassionate, despite his Bad Sheriff image -- knows that the only way Gordon can take care of his personal life is by earning the income football provides him. And to do that, Gordon must stay eligible on game days to receive his game checks.
And that’s where we’re at. In order for Gordon to avoid jail time for missing child-support payments, he must be on the field to earn his paycheck.
Even though Tony Grossi discounts my contention that Josh had another positive drug test and is generally far more pro-Josh than I am, I heartily recommend reading that entire article. Tony has a lot of really interesting insights to offer on this entire situation.
Second Notion
Originally Posted By: Me Paraphrasing the "He Never Failed A Drug Test" Folks
"If Josh Gordon had actually failed another drug test, we would all know by now. The news would have leaked to the media, just like it always has."
Is that a fair rendering of this argument?
It was a great argument in the past, but this time around something has changed. That change? Nobody has an incentive to leak this time. The NFL has zero incentive to leak because they are no longer punishing drug abusers, but rather treating them. There is no need to embarrass players as punishment. Moreover, HIPPA requires the NFL to maintain player privacy.
The Browns have no incentive to leak bad news on Josh because they desperately want him back, do not want to embarrass him, and like the NFL they are supporting and treating Josh Gordon. The Browns are also subject to HIPPA privacy requirements and they are abiding by them.
Finally, Josh Gordon and his agent have zero incentive to leak news about a positive drug test. Earlier this year, Josh and his agents spun this big story in the GQ and Sports Illustrated articles, as well as that bio-documentary video, that Josh is the comeback kid. He did a lot of bad things, but now he is reformed, cleaned up, and standing tall. Obviously, news of another relapse blows up this PR campaign.
(By the way, in the past it is quite likely that player agents were the most frequent sources of all the drug ban leaks. The agents (and the NFLPA on the sly) despised the NFL's draconian repeat drug offender punishments and so they leaked that, so-and-so got a year long suspension for smoking pot while such-and-so wifebeater got his hand slapped, to shame the NFL. These NFL shaming leaks worked and the NFL reformed itself, even without renegotiating the CBA.)
Third Notion When Josh came back from a drug suspensions in the past, the NFL put restrictions on him. For example, he might be allowed in training camp to attend meetings and workouts, but not allowed on the practice field. Later, he might be allowed to practice with the team for a while, but not to play in games. Finally, with NFL approval he was allowed to play in games.
And what do we see this time? Josh is prohibited from practicing, but may attend meetings and workouts. Later, the practice restriction will be lifted and Josh will be able to practice. Finally, with approval from the NFL and assuming Josh continues on the straight and narrow, he will be allowed to play football.
The way the NFL is handling Josh this time is almost the same way the NFL handled Josh in the past as he came off of a drug suspension. The difference is that the NFL is now focused on treatment instead of punishment. There are still some restrictions and some punishment, but it is lighter and shorter than in previous years. Still, the striking similarities in the return processes suggest Josh is making a quick comeback from a failed drug test.
Conspiracy Theory or Plausible Theory? Taking the aforementioned, documented facts along with my three notions above, is it plausible that Josh Gordon failed a drug test again? I hold that it is plausible, even probable, that Josh Gordon failed a drug test and that dissing this well supported argument as a "conspiracy theory" is now rendered a pretty weak counter-argument. There are other ways to knock holes in my argument, but calling it names is not one of them.
Last edited by AaigSuckinDawg; 08/20/1806:17 AM. Reason: Tweaked the Second Notion Paraphrase Title
I don’t agree with your outlook on meathead (great nickname BTW ... it fits perfectly .. he’s certainly been one .. )
With that said .. I really like your style and approach and enjoy reading U .. U make it enjoyable to read even though I NEVER agree with your summations ...
Thanks for that ...
Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it. Disagreement is fine as is thoughtful argumentation.
However, I have never referred to Josh as "meathead". I usually refer to him by his actual name, such as Josh, or Gordon, or Josh Gordon.
If I were to use a name calling kind of name, it would have to be something quite a bit stronger than 'meathead' - something forbidden by forum rules.
"Aig-Head" is confusing the very LOOSE use of the word Reinstated.
Gordon was Reinstated LAST year.
This is all a Formality.
<sarcasm mode = ON>
Yes. YES. YES!!!
According to multiple media reports from multiple NFL sources, Josh Gordon can only play in regular season games with FORMAL approval from the NFL after making steady progress in his recovery and meeting various criteria.
We don't even know if Gordon will be cleared to play by week 1.
Just saying .....
Technically, that is correct, but I'll be freaking shocked beyond belief if he isn't "cleared" by Wednesday. He'll play in the 3rd preseason game, even if it is with the 2's.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
We don't even know if Gordon will be cleared to play by week 1.
Just saying .....
Technically, that is correct, but I'll be freaking shocked beyond belief if he isn't "cleared" by Wednesday. He'll play in the 3rd preseason game, even if it is with the 2's.
We'll see what happens.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it. Disagreement is fine as is thoughtful argumentation.
Thoughtful argumentation is a thing of the past in this country ... its a real shame what we’ve ALL allowed to happen to civil discourse ... but thats another discussion ...
Quote:
However, I have never referred to Josh as "meathead". I usually refer to him by his actual name, such as Josh, or Gordon, or Josh Gordon.
I apologize sir ... my mistake ... i confused you with Spirit ... it wont happen again ... i hate admitting i’m Wrong to much to let it happen again ... *L* ...
Sorry about that sir ... i look forward to thoughtfully argumentating with u in the near future ...
Some folks around here seem to think that I am either stupid, crazy, confused, or a liar because I stated the following things:
Josh Gordon, for the time being, is only allowed to attend meetings, do strength and conditioning workouts, and watch practice from the sidelines. He may NOT practice at this time.
In due time, Josh Gordon will be allowed to practice on the field.
ONLY with permission of the NFL, will Josh Gordon be fully reinstated to play in regular season NFL games.
There is no guarantee that Josh Gordon will be allowed to play in the Browns first game on September 9 against the Steelers.
I stand by these statements not just as my opinions, but as statements of hard fact.
These facts have been verified by news reporters and widely reported in a variety of news media.
Below I cite these news media with links and relevant quotes from the articles.
Facts, ladies and gentlemen. Facts.
The facts are that you made multiple unsubstantiated claims that Gordon failed tests. Then with halfbaked reasoning, you attempted to connect that to the incremental process that the league is using so that he can resume on-field practices. The facts are that he is in a leagued sanctioned treatment program. My opinion is that it would be irresponsible for the league to just plop him down on the Brown's roster without managing his re-integration onto the team.
Per the injury report, Gordon is already ruled OUT for the game on Thursday...I doubt he plays.
There is protocol you usually have to follow before being allowed to play...so many days without pads, so many days with pads but no contact, so many days of contact, etc.
The facts are that you made multiple unsubstantiated claims that Gordon failed tests. Then with halfbaked reasoning, you attempted to connect that to the incremental process that the league is using so that he can resume on-field practices.
I did reverse the order. I should have laid out my reasoning first, and then the contention that Josh failed a drug test. That would have made more sense for folks.
I'll endeavor to get the sequence right in the future.
Originally Posted By: guard dawg
The facts are that he is in a leagued sanctioned treatment program. My opinion is that it would be irresponsible for the league to just plop him down on the Brown's roster without managing his re-integration onto the team.
But the NFL had already re-integrated Josh into the NFL off season program back in the Spring. And Josh was doing fine. Without restrictions from the NFL, he fully participated in OTAs and mini-camp. Back in July, everybody expected Josh to show up for training camp after all his successful work in OTAs and mini-camp.
Then - BOOM! - Josh was back in treatment and is now on this strict return path mandated by the NFL.
If everything was running smooth and normal, then why did Josh have to go through all this reintegration process again, a second time, for the last weeks of training camp when he had already reintegrated throughout the Spring and Summer?
Why? Because the issues aren't football issues they are issues of substance abuse and recovery. "Smooth and normal"? It's convenient to forget that Josh asked for additional help between minicamp and TC. That triggered the sequence of events including his return to the team and the process in use to return to him to the team.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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