DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Problem With The Coaching Staff.

Jackson ripped Williams for calling the way Ward tackles stupid. Seems like there is a lot of turmoil and tension between Jackson and his assistants. If the Browns win, it will be overlooked. If they start losing right out of the gate, then Jackson could be gone by week 5.

I would imagine that there is no more or no less than most other teams. We are all just dialed into to the Browns. I think Jackson is and should be safe this year, no matter what.

The season hasn't started yet, and already, some are finding reasons to dump Jackson.

Also, I didn't hear or read anything about Jackson ripping Williams for that. Did I miss it?

Overstate much?

I do think the team has to win for Jackson to keep his job. Beyond that obvious fact, no one knows.

You can tell that many haven't played football. They act like disputes between coaches is a novel thing.

But can you actually have a good message board without people throwing in the drama that rivals a reality show?

LOL.........drama increases the ratings.

This seems like a hardcore, in depth layer of dysfuncfion or disagreement when in reality, it probably was a two minute convo and moved onto the next topic.

Do you guys think other organizations don't have these issues either?

j/c:

Just more ado about nothing. Every profession with passionate people will have these disputes. I'd prefer it not be aired so publicly...but I fail to see any big deal here.

If Hue Jackson had a better record, then this would not be a problem. Things like this will continue to be a problem until Jackson’s record improves. If it doesn’t improve, significantly, he won’t be the head coach anymore.

Jackson saw a potential fire and put it out, that's all. You don't want players talking under their breath about crap like this in the locker room or on the field. Kill it and move on. Good move if you ask me.

I think some times people forget the very nature of football. It's a violent sport where the testosterone levels are off the charts. Many of the men who play the game are violent, combative, and highly competitive.

People are shocked when disputes break out among these volatile personalities. The media milks them for all they're worth because people soak that stuff up.

I can't tell you how many times there were physical altercations between coaches when I was coaching. One time, the OL coach and the DC got into it so bad that I thought we'd never separate them. The verbal arguments and explosions as a daily endeavor. It's no place for the timid.

If Hue went 0 - 16 with the Patriots' talent .. I would agree ... If he had gone 0 -16 even with the Bengal's talent .. I would agree .. BUT, Hue went 0 - 16 with the least talented QB and talent in the NFL, so I can not hold that against him.

So you're saying that what he said was just fine. It's only a problem, in your mind, because of who said it. Considering the source I expected no less.

Win games = genius coaching staff

Lose games = failures, fire them all.

There's really no in between in the NFL

just about, yep

No matter what?

That includes a lot. I totally disagree. No matter what includes anything.

Agreed...it's a lot like play-calling...if it works, you're a genius...if it doesn't work, you're a turd. It's almost impossible to know what really-was the problem without knowing the play-call and how it's been practiced.

I think the 'conflict' in the NFL coaching environment is a healthy thing as long as there is some degree of a lid on the explosions.

The NFL is not an accounting office...it's a crazy, aggressive place...if it was without conflict to some degree, I'd think something was wrong.

Good post.

Here is a personal perspective. I am ultra-competitive. I wasn't the biggest guy. Not even close. But, I worked my ass off. I try to win at every single thing I do.

So, I was well-equipped to deal w/all the big egos and bravado in the coaching room, but man............sometimes......it was like "are you guys going down that road again." Our OL coach was brutal. Fought everyone. He had guys chop blocking our own players in practice. We were all like.........WTF?

I mentioned this in another thread, but you don't go after dude's knees. And you are having them do it in practice? Are you kidding me.

He was the biggest ass. Most of us argued a lot and there were a few brief physical altercations, but they were quickly broken up and we allowed others to pull us away. That dude, though. He was an ass.

I don't think Jackson ripped him. Not as much as Williams ripped Ward. Personally, I like the fact (Hard Knocks has really shown this) that we have a coaching staff who isn't scared to disagree and let it be known. I always think walking on eggshells is the much more scary reality. I've seen nothing to suggest that relationships are frayed, much less in a state of turmoil.

Personally, I think the relationship between Williams and Jackson is much less a point of concern that between Jackson and Haley. They could get sick of each other. Williams and Jackson are each other's guys. I'm not worried about them at all. I feel like they'd happily spend the rest of their lives coaching together.

As for Jackson being fired in week five, I really hope not. If the team sucks again and it's clear Jackson isn't getting it done, fine, but wait until the end of the season. Nothing good comes from a mid-season firing, much less a week-five-or-sooner firing. That's the worst.

You commit to the staff for the season; you give them the season. Forcing dysfunction on the team is antithetical to what we want.

Besides, I'm okay if the Browns don't start hot. We start with the Steelers and then the Saints. Two Superbowl contenders. The Jets and Raiders follow, I think they're much more winnable, then the Ravens and Chargers - I wouldn't say Superbowl contenders, but both are legitimate playoff teams.

Frankly, 3-3 would be an epic start. After the bye week (week 11) we've got the Bungles (x2), Texans, Panthers, Broncos and Ravens. I think that period is where the Browns could really put together some wins. I think the Browns could legitimately snatch four of the final six games.

So even if the Browns start 2-8 or 3-7, I'm not hitting the panic stations. Besides, when a team is ready to turn the corner, I feel like that always happens later in the season as they gain experience and familiarity. Rare to see a young team start hot and then crash. More likely to see a bounce back that has you saying, "Imagine if they played like that all year. They could be a contender next year."

I can only hope we stay the course for at least the season.

FWIW - I heard Danny Kanell on his radio show Monday or Tuesday. He was saying that he expected the Browns to go 8-8. But then noted that he was more confident in that prediction before watching Hard Knocks. He followed it up with something like: But they have really good assistant coaches. He didn't go into details but It was not a ringing endorsement for Hue.

For the Hue defenders, This is just relaying information. This is Danny Kanell's perspective not mine. I have not watched Hard Knocks and don't think that I have even opened up the Hard Knocks thread.

For the Hue haters, this is not my opinion. Just sharing what Kanell said. I have not watched Hard Knocks and don't think that I have even opened up the Hard Knocks thread.

The rath done cometh.



I would have thought the opposite would take place after seeing Hard Knocks. Did Kannel provide any additional substance as to why he felt discouraged, or rather less confident in his 8-8 prediction, AFTER watching Hard Knocks?

How did you arrive at week five as a breaking point? I would like to know what that is based on. This is hot seat for Hue already?

Have we managed to do that yet? Hats off to Purp and Company.

We are better with less drama; it is a reliable metric and admirable goal to bear in mind.

But where is the fun in that? LOLetc.

I would like to see some additional substance as well - my opinion of Hue has changed drastically for the better after watching.

You should watch Hard Knocks. It's an awesome show. The team is really coming together.

I think Hue has been very impressive on the show. He has a great balance of holding guys accountable while also being fair. He does a great job of "team building."

You can find all the episodes on YouTube. Check them out and see for yourself.

I've seen things... Coaches fighting on the sidelines, games stopped so coaches from both sides could gang up on the players, hats ripped to shreds on the sidelines, visiting team coaches flipping the home team fans the bird... Nothing surprises me.

Lots of pressure between the losing going on and this documentary stuff.
I say we're/they're just fine. Winning would be an elixer!

The joys of testosterone are unmatched. Getting wound up and edgy feels good, Coaches "live" in that mode. Healthy and understandable. Rooms are full of alpha dogs. Not unexpected surprising, just temporary, self-inflicted insanity. But for a good cause.

Here's the problem with the 1-31 record continuing to color every single thing Hue says. We start the season off against the Steelers and Saints. Chalk says we should go 0-2, regardless of Hue's history. And yet, the media will be ALL OVER him if/when that happens. The only way media (and select fans) quiet down about Hue is if we beat Pittsburgh and finish the first quarter at 2-2 or better. Tall order.

I've heard people call opening day a must-win game before, but always thought it was ridiculous. That probably remains true this year, but I'm not quite as sure.

It does suck that we open w/such a tough schedule.

I think the record in the first 4 games is not nearly as important as how we perform and how close the games are. We could be 1-3 and hove no discussion of "Hue must go". Well, none besides the usual suspects in the media and in the forums.

Hey Memphis

He didn’t go into any detail while i had it on driving home from work. But it was clear that he saw something about the way Hue was runny things that discouraged him.

I was hoping one of you guys saw something and could enlighten me. Seems we dawgs got a different impression of Hue from hard knocks than kanell did.

One thing that comes to mind, and I don’t know if kanell hinted at this or if it’s my own original thought (post work my mind kinda shuts down for a couple hours ) but what about the tempo of th practices?

The producer of Hard Knocks has mentioned that the Browns have the best tempo he's ever seen in all of his years of working for Hard Knocks.

You really should watch the show.

Yes it's a violent, aggressive game and things get heated. This was not a one time incident that happened in the heat of the moment. Apparently Williams was talking to a reporter when he said the way Ward tackles was stupid. Jackson was mad that Williams said that to a reporter.

Yes disputes, arguments, and even fist fights between coaches happen. You settle those in house and not in the media.

Jackson in definitely on the hot seat and if the Browns don't show improvement he will be out.

Wow, that's great, the Browns have the best tempo. As for winning games, not so much.

I answered a direct question from Jester. Here it is:



Look, I'm tired of fighting w/you guys. I think Hue is doing a good job. It's amazing how much command he has of the players in meetings. You watch other teams or even previous Brown's coaches and almost all the players look disinterested, distracted, and/or bored. That isn't the case w/Hue. Everyone is sitting upright and listening. The guy is a great communicator and it's showing while watching the show.

We have something good going on and I hope the top brass allows this to play out.

A coach who has one win in two years.

New GM who wants to win now and feels the team should be better with the moves he made.

An owner who's patience is wearing thin and needs to start seeing some wins.

I stick by what I said. If the Browns start the season 0-5 Jackson will be out.

I've only seen one episode of hard knocks - but I agree 100% with this. He is a great communicator and motivator. I'm impressed.

That said and to the post above - he is still 1-31 with the Browns and if he does go 0-5 he could easily be gone. . . . but I don't see it. We might go 0-2 because of the first two teams we play - but I wouldn't be surprised to go 2-1 in the next 3 games. Jets are very beatable. Raiders traveling west is a tough game for them and I am not impressed with the Ravens.

We might be a trap team for the Saints. . . just thinking out loud.