I haven’t heard about Americans reaching out to foreign operatives to hack their opponents during a presidential election though.
I hope you understand THATS the reason all of this is a big deal.
Like I said. Don’t go down with this ship, bro. The captain clearly won’t. He’ll resign before that happens.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I think it's time we get away from the narrative and actually talk about reality.
The Mueller investigation isn't "all about Trump".
See, this is where Trump and Republicans would like us to think the entire "witch hunt" premise holds some merit. It doesn't. The investigation is about, "Russian interference in our electoral process". This includes Russians, those with contacts with Russians before and during the campaign and anywhere else that leads.
For anyone that claims otherwise, 25 Russians have been indicted through the special counsel. This is a wide ranging investigation that spans continents, not just the White House, so people need to stop with the nonsense.
We have two sides pushing a narrative that simply doesn't exist. The Dems are pushing the agenda that it's all about Trump and the GOP is pushing the narrative that it's a witch hunt. Both are very wrong.
Why are there charges on people that have nothing to do with nor are related to Russians?
I'm not really sure why in the hell this is a question at all, but for the Orange president and his faithful excuse makers it sure seems to be. lmao
Let me give you a scenario. If the police have a warrant for a fugitive and search a home, if they see a brick of heroin on the kitchen table of the house, should they ignore that? Of course not.
And that's what some seem to promote here. During the Russian investigation other facts about other crimes have come to light. So what legitimate excuse is there for a prosecutor to simply ignore those crimes because that's not the focus of his investigation? It seems he should ignore the brick of heroin on the kitchen table.
No, what he does is pass the evidence on to another court and let that court proceed in the manner they find appropriate. That's not a "witch hunt".
If Mueller has something on Trump, why doesn't he show it?
This is yet another question that's being asked that makes zero sense.
Firstly, as has been covered, this isn't about Trump! Let me repeat, the investigation is about, "Russian interference in the 2016 election". Secondly, we all know that a prosecutor nor the police comment on an ongoing investigation. It's the same exact thing that happens from coast to coast across this nation during any kind of investigation. Devil is a cop. So no matter which side of politics he's on, I'd bet you anything he will confirm this.
Police and prosecutors DO NOT COMMENT in regards to an ONGOING INVESTIGATION!
The angry gang of Democrats
Rod Rosenstein was nominated by Trump. Rosenstein appointed Mueller. Rosentstein oversees the special counsel. Mueller is also a Republican.
Now I know people are going to try and double talk about all of these points. But it is what it is. Blaming Democrats for a witch hunt is a lie. Claiming this investigation is all about Trump is a lie. Claiming that Mueller should expose parts of his investigation while the investigation continues is moronic.
Both sides have lost sight of reality and it's gone past the point of pathetic.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Police and prosecutors DO NOT COMMENT in regards to an ONGOING INVESTIGATION!
This is true... or usually is.
And you analogy about the brick is correct... discovery of that brick if not what you were originally looking for has to have it's own separate investigation in order for prosecution. That said, you still have to have a valid and legal reason for going in to the house in the first place.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
And when the Asst. Attorney General who was appointed by Trump, Rosenstein, appointed Mueller as special counsel, it gave him a valid reason to investigate anyone in the Trump campaign who had any ties to Russia or allies with Russia. Thus Manafort fit into that category.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yup. Momentum. If getting 8 out of 18 is momentum. I know, like, in baseball, hitting .450 is awesome! In a federal court, hitting less than 50%? Uh.....suckage. And you know it also. It's even been said on here - in federal court, dang, you just don't win, the fed's almost always do.
And yes, the got him on 8 counts. 8 out of 18.
I don't see momentum - I see a guy that had no limitations on his expenditures in order to get guilty ...............and he failed on more than half.
Hey, they got the guy.
Mueller needs to step his game up though.
So thats where your going with your defense now? Hes ONLY guilty of 8 counts, come on man
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Yup. Momentum. If getting 8 out of 18 is momentum. I know, like, in baseball, hitting .450 is awesome! In a federal court, hitting less than 50%? Uh.....suckage. And you know it also. It's even been said on here - in federal court, dang, you just don't win, the fed's almost always do.
And yes, the got him on 8 counts. 8 out of 18.
I don't see momentum - I see a guy that had no limitations on his expenditures in order to get guilty ...............and he failed on more than half.
Hey, they got the guy.
Mueller needs to step his game up though.
So thats where your going with your defense now? Hes ONLY guilty of 8 counts, come on man
Yup. Momentum. If getting 8 out of 18 is momentum. I know, like, in baseball, hitting .450 is awesome! In a federal court, hitting less than 50%? Uh.....suckage. And you know it also. It's even been said on here - in federal court, dang, you just don't win, the fed's almost always do.
And yes, the got him on 8 counts. 8 out of 18.
I don't see momentum - I see a guy that had no limitations on his expenditures in order to get guilty ...............and he failed on more than half.
Hey, they got the guy.
Mueller needs to step his game up though.
So thats where your going with your defense now? Hes ONLY guilty of 8 counts, come on man
Who cares about Manafort?
Trump.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yup. Momentum. If getting 8 out of 18 is momentum. I know, like, in baseball, hitting .450 is awesome! In a federal court, hitting less than 50%? Uh.....suckage. And you know it also. It's even been said on here - in federal court, dang, you just don't win, the fed's almost always do.
And yes, the got him on 8 counts. 8 out of 18.
I don't see momentum - I see a guy that had no limitations on his expenditures in order to get guilty ...............and he failed on more than half.
Hey, they got the guy.
Mueller needs to step his game up though.
So thats where your going with your defense now? Hes ONLY guilty of 8 counts, come on man
its always funny watching you guys essentially go "none of this matters" or "who cares"
meanwhile, the actual president cant stop talking about the very things you guys claim dont matter.
imagine that.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
and yet, he's still talking about manafort like some sort of hero.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yup. Momentum. If getting 8 out of 18 is momentum. I know, like, in baseball, hitting .450 is awesome! In a federal court, hitting less than 50%? Uh.....suckage. And you know it also. It's even been said on here - in federal court, dang, you just don't win, the fed's almost always do.
And yes, the got him on 8 counts. 8 out of 18.
I don't see momentum - I see a guy that had no limitations on his expenditures in order to get guilty ...............and he failed on more than half.
Hey, they got the guy.
Mueller needs to step his game up though.
So thats where your going with your defense now? Hes ONLY guilty of 8 counts, come on man
Sorry. It wasn't a 'defense' as you called it.
It was a 'look at people charged in federal court' thing. It's rare for them to be found not guilty, or even have a hung jury.
I know, Manafort was convicted of 8 counts - enough to send him away for a long time.
Well I know for a fact that half the people on that list I named committed perjury and weren't charged for it. I guess that doesn't matter if someone lies in court anymore. To me it does.
Yup. Momentum. If getting 8 out of 18 is momentum. I know, like, in baseball, hitting .450 is awesome! In a federal court, hitting less than 50%? Uh.....suckage. And you know it also. It's even been said on here - in federal court, dang, you just don't win, the fed's almost always do.
And yes, the got him on 8 counts. 8 out of 18.
I don't see momentum - I see a guy that had no limitations on his expenditures in order to get guilty ...............and he failed on more than half.
Hey, they got the guy.
Mueller needs to step his game up though.
So thats where your going with your defense now? Hes ONLY guilty of 8 counts, come on man
Sorry. It wasn't a 'defense' as you called it.
It was a 'look at people charged in federal court' thing. It's rare for them to be found not guilty, or even have a hung jury.
I know, Manafort was convicted of 8 counts - enough to send him away for a long time.
I've heard it repeated several places that the Feds have a 95% prosecution rate.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
If these people did shady things then sure, they should go to jail. However, I do start to get upset when justice and the law is not equally applied to everyone; whether that be Clinton, James Clapper, John Brennan, James Comey, individuals in the FBI, people in the DOJ, Loretta Lynch. A lot of those people are shady but they're not in jail yet? Why?
Because the justice system in this country is inherently broken. From top to bottom. We also have no formalized institutions to find corruption within the people who make our laws and uphold them. There's no real accountability for a lot of people at the top. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Unfortunately, the media in most cases. And of course any and all media is politicized to a heavy extent. Both by the media and the audiences watching it. So, we have this never ending game of nonsense.
I don't think the system is what's broken. We have Rights and protections that most of the world doesn't have. It's not the system but the Judge that hands down excessive punishment for minor crimes or slaps on a wrist for serious crimes. It's the DA that decides to offer plea deals where someone pleas guilty and serves time for the minor pot charge instead of prosecuting them for the sale and distribution of the heroin they had, or the stolen firearm in their possession.
What's missing is a more effective mechanism for accountability as you suggest. But not just accountability for corruption but accountability of what we want or criminal justice system to achieve.
I agree with this too. I think, in general though, our legal system really loves to overlook impersonal crimes. Serious crimes that do not involve the use or threat of unsanctionable violence.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Yup. Momentum. If getting 8 out of 18 is momentum. I know, like, in baseball, hitting .450 is awesome! In a federal court, hitting less than 50%? Uh.....suckage. And you know it also. It's even been said on here - in federal court, dang, you just don't win, the fed's almost always do.
And yes, the got him on 8 counts. 8 out of 18.
I don't see momentum - I see a guy that had no limitations on his expenditures in order to get guilty ...............and he failed on more than half.
Hey, they got the guy.
Mueller needs to step his game up though.
So thats where your going with your defense now? Hes ONLY guilty of 8 counts, come on man
Sorry. It wasn't a 'defense' as you called it.
It was a 'look at people charged in federal court' thing. It's rare for them to be found not guilty, or even have a hung jury.
I know, Manafort was convicted of 8 counts - enough to send him away for a long time.
Lol.. like they tied Manafort up and held him underwater for an hour. He survived, he’s a witch.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Being paid off would probably be the furthest thing from my mind. I actually have no way to be sure what happened exactly. But one thing is certain by reading what the juror who is talking said. It seemed nothing could convince this lone juror. That they fully reviewed everything with this lone juror which totally convinced the other 11, yet had zero impact on the outcome by this single juror.
I posted a theory earlier in this thread that brought forth the hypothesis that questioned if Trump's comments about "how unfair" this trial was or his comments about Manafort being "a good man", could end up swaying even one juror.
If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that's the most likely scenario here. You have to convince 12 jurors a man is guilty, but you only have to convince one to get a hung jury.
When you have a president openly interjecting in a legal proceeding, anyone who has their eyes open can see how wrong that is. Did it have an impact on the outcome of those other 10 charges? We may never know. But as long as Trump can't seem to keep his mouth shut, that question will always loom.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
When you have a president openly interjecting in a legal proceeding, anyone who has their eyes open can see how wrong that is. Did it have an impact on the outcome of those other 10 charges? We may never know. But as long as Trump can't seem to keep his mouth shut, that question will always loom.
In Spades.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It was a 'look at people charged in federal court' thing. It's rare for them to be found not guilty, or even have a hung jury.
I know, Manafort was convicted of 8 counts - enough to send him away for a long time.
Come to find out it was a lone juror. Imagine that! lol
And it was said that if something like this came up with one juror, then they may not have to try Manafort again on the 10 charges that were not decided, because the judge could infer in their sentencing that Manafort was guilty on 8 charges and probably had some guilt in the other 10 charges and make the time in jail for the 8 charges a little harsher
It’s reported that Mueller has 3 times the evidence for the next Manafort trial in September.
And Fox had one of the other jurors on last week and she said she had no idea how he wasn't convicted on all 18 (I know-one juror), but she said the evidence was so overwhelming he was getting a guilty charge or 8.
Also, this is from the NY Times a few days ago concerning the next trial and a pardon
The conviction is also bad news for the president because it increases the pressure on Mr. Manafort to cooperate with investigators. He has a second trial coming shortly in Washington, D.C., which could add even more time to what will likely be a substantial sentence — and Mr. Mueller reportedly has much more evidence to present to jurors in that trial than he did in the trial that just concluded.
Nor can Mr. Manafort simply wait for a presidential pardon. Mr. Trump hinted at one in his inappropriate tweets while the jury was deliberating, and has otherwise signaled his readiness to use his pardon pen. But should Mr. Trump pardon him, Mr. Manafort should expect state attorneys general to pick up under applicable state laws the threads of corruption and tax fraud that Mr. Mueller has already woven together. Unlike the federal crimes for which he has been convicted, state crimes cannot be wiped away with a presidential pardon. The risk of state charges maintains the pressure on Mr. Manafort to cooperate — especially after Tuesday’s conviction revealed what jurors think of his questionable business practices and other activities.
A pardon for Mr. Manafort could also end up inflicting more harm on the Trump presidency than any of the other allegedly obstructive acts Mr. Trump has so far undertaken. The Constitution and the laws of our country do not allow Mr. Trump to dangle the possibility of, or explicitly offer, pardons with corrupt intent.
Trump was very seriously moving toward issuing Manafort a pardon... then tonight it was revealed the Manafort is trying to negotiate a deal, but none reached yet and not likely.
Trump was so proud of Manafort for not giving in last week, I wonder if this changed his mind or if Manafort can still look forward to that pardon...
Trump was very seriously moving toward issuing Manafort a pardon... then tonight it was revealed the Manafort is trying to negotiate a deal, but none reached yet and not likely.
Trump was so proud of Manafort for not giving in last week, I wonder if this changed his mind or if Manafort can still look forward to that pardon...
Trump is flailing like a cornered wounded rat.
Premature gloating is only going to make it hurt more when Trump skates away scot free.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Trump was very seriously moving toward issuing Manafort a pardon... then tonight it was revealed the Manafort is trying to negotiate a deal, but none reached yet and not likely.
Trump was so proud of Manafort for not giving in last week, I wonder if this changed his mind or if Manafort can still look forward to that pardon...
Trump is flailing like a cornered wounded rat.
Premature gloating is only going to make it hurt more when Trump skates away scot free.
Nobody skates away from Karma.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Trump was very seriously moving toward issuing Manafort a pardon... then tonight it was revealed the Manafort is trying to negotiate a deal, but none reached yet and not likely.
Trump was so proud of Manafort for not giving in last week, I wonder if this changed his mind or if Manafort can still look forward to that pardon...
Trump is flailing like a cornered wounded rat.
Premature gloating is only going to make it hurt more when Trump skates away scot free.
It won't hurt me, I expect it. But only for his term.
I didn't take mgh8888 for a republican but maybe I'm wrong.
Either way, he's got history on his side. No president has ever been found guilty of an impeachment charge by the Senate, and no president has ever had impeachment articles pass against him by his own party.
