DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Problem With The Coaching Staff.

I don’t want Hue fired ... and i think he’s costs us games over the last two years .... i certainly have zero respect for the man after last years LEAKING and BACK STABBING ... but here’s the thing ... its 3 FOLD ...

1. He has a BRAND NEW JOB ... some of us understand the difference between OC/HC and HC ... HUGE DIFFERENCE ... HUGE ....

Responsibility wise ... there almost two entirely different jobs ....

How do u guys like U and Mr. Peen not see that ... Peen’s a smart man ... he either don’t get it or he’s just old, grumpy and impatient ... ... love ya Peen ...

2. In my world ... EVERYONE should get a FAIR SHAKE ... with the talent we had here the last two years ... ITS SIMPLY NOT FAIR TO BLAME THE HC .. we had by far the WORST ROSTER IN THE LEAGUE ... it wasn’t even close ... and amazingly enough the record reflected it ... IMAGINE THAT ... ...

Unless ya’all think he cost os 4 or 5 games over the last two years ... in witch case your not paying attention ...

3. Lets take a look at whose been succesful as HC/OC ... we’ll do a little deep dive ... and bring anyone u want into the discussion ... but BE FAIR and HONEST ... it’ll be hard cause IMO its gonna reveal sumptin WE SIMPLY DONT THINK ABOUT and the results on most won’t support your inevitable whataboutism .. (if u read this ... THANKS ROCKET ... ...)

IMO the greatest O mind of all time ... witch leads me to the FACT the greatest D mind in the history of the game is now an “OK” HC but he don’t call the DEFENSIVE PLAYS ...

Bill Walsh - Montana, Young
Norv Turner - Rivers in SD ... Shuler in Washington (got run out of there toot sweet)
Sean Payton - Drew Brees
Hue Jackson - Kessler and Kizer ...

Go ahead ... lets her some more ... name um ... you’ll find a few exceptions but a DEFINITE OVERWHELMING PATTERN WILL BE CLEARLY EVIDENT!!!

Lets look at a list of todays OC/HC’s ...

Peterson - Wentz ... kid would make a lot of playcallers look good
McVay - Goff ... nothing special IMO, slightly above average ... see Hue’s QB’s ..
McCarty - Favre, Rodgers .... when he lost Rodgers last year he got a whole lot worse at his job ..

Gase - Ryan Tanneyhill ... D’s fear that O ....
Gruden - Gannon, Johnson and now Carr ..
Dirk Koetter - Winston and Fitz (that won’t last much longer .. Fitz will turn into Fitz again ... although that receiving core with Evans, Jackson, Godwin and Brate and Howard may slow down his metamorphism back to who he is .. *L*)

Bill O’Brien - BUMS, Watson - when Watson played last year he was a GENIUS .. w/o Mr. Watson ... thanks for Denzel Bill ... WE APPRECIATE IT GENIUS ...

Shanny - we’ll see how he does ... my guess it hinges on JG ... 0 - 11 last year without ... 5 - 0 with ...

There u have it .. i see a pattern here ( i now know that has a lot to do with math ... thanks vers .. ... u still need to give me those “lessons” for my nephews ... i didnt forget and i wont let u .. ... ) that IMO is pretty conclusive as far as succesful HC/OC goes ...

Lets see who will be honest here and whose just gonna DIG IN ...

I don't fit into your little box .. i thought Hue cost us 2 maybe 3 games over the last two years ... not a fan of his off the field ...

YET ... i am 100% on board with giving Hue at least this entire year ...

Why u may ask .... simply because i believe he deserves a FAIR SHAKE at this ... its simply the RIGHT THING TO DO ...

This is a fair assessment. But I can see where this is going, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think it's weird to say "Hue may have cost us 2-3 wins but you're blind if you think it's more than that." This is obviously a comment from someone who knows all the answers.

I also don't agree that McCarty became a worse HC with Hundley.

And I have no problem giving hue a year. I just know it's highly unlikely he'll be here next year unless things change drastically. It's early, only 2 games in, and yet he's making the same silly mistakes he always has. Doesn't bode well for Hue.

What???? No Sid Gillman?? No Don Coryell??? No Paul Brown??? Here is an oddball to throw out there... What about Lindy Infante (great OC not so good HC...lol) he helped turn Ken Anderson, Bernie Kosar, and even Don Majkowski into household names for a short time...

I only pull these names up because you mentioned greatest O minds of all time...Honestly I don't know where Hue lies in that conversation...I just thought I would add to your list...LOL

I agree he has a completely new job. I agree he has cost us some games. I agree that his roster was bottom shelf and the record reflected it. For me, when deciding if he should be here or not...I always point to the fact that he has never lost the Lockeroom. And even in Game 16 of these seasons...they are still fighting. That speaks volumes to me. Once a coach loses the lockeroom...the team is done. I know a lot of people liked Mangini and his Bill Belicheck, I am the Emperor stance..(some didn't) Or many liked Butch Davis. But those are 2 prime examples of Coaches that lost the lockeroom. Hue hasn't. And for me...It tells me we haven't seen what can happen with a real roster.

What? ... I dont even know what that means ... well i know what the shot u took at me means ... *L* ... just not the rest .. i’m Tired .. I mary just be incoherent cause i dont understand your statement ... but thats irrelivent ... just wasted everyones time typing that ... *L* ...

OK ... how many game do u think he cost us and WHY ... BE SPECIFIC ... lets dive down this rabbit hole ...



Well the team sure SUCKED when Rodgers went down ... u must not know any packer fans ...



Really ... what silly mistakes are these? ... PLEASE ELABORATE ... another rabbit hole ... lets go down it ...

I’ll be waiting to hear about all these silly mistakes hes made this year ...

Cue the jeporday music ....

My good buddies Peen and Will are more than welcome to dive down these rabbit holes with us ...

I know your both shy so i thought I should extend the invite ... *LOL* ...

Maybe u being in Charleston isn’t as sweet as i thought it was ... *LOL* ... what was i thinking being glad to see u again ... ....

The sad part Pete ... it took me about 10 minutes to remember Sid Luckmans name ... then i couldnt remember who is qb’s were ... *L* ... thought about Fouts and have no excuse how Air Cordell slipped my mind when i thought about Fouts ... damm ... forgot all about are namesake and Walsh .. although ... Walsh found Ken Anderson and what a story that was on many levels ...

If your not familiar with that story let me know ... its a really good one on a bunch of levels ..



Man .. Marty thinking he knew more about O than Lindy ... WOW .... *L* ... matter of fact ... didnt Marty actually call plays the first year after he fired Lindy ... i think he did but i may be mis remembering ...

U hit the nail on the head with him .. what a great O mind most never even heard of much less give him the credit he earned ...

I know a lot of people liked Mangini and his Bill Belicheck, I am the Emperor stance..(some didn't) Or many liked Butch Davis. But those are 2 prime examples of Coaches that lost the lockeroom. Hue hasn't. And for me...It tells me we haven't seen what can happen with a real roster.
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Could not agree more with the losing the roster statement ... 100% agree with it ... i said it a few times ... i am extremely impressed he has not lost the locker room ... like u pointed out ... that says a ton ... a TON ...

So glad your back bro ... hope u can stick around ...

Marty didn't fire Infante. The latter left to become the HC in Green Bay.

The memories not perfect ... thanks for the correction ...

I hate putting out bad info ...

You talkin' to me?

*L* ... no, your WSU or Willie ...

But please do join us if your so inclined ... its a real big rabbit hole ...

I’ll be in touch dawg ... we have other rabbit holes to venture down ... *L*

I am not looking for any apology. We are all expressing our opinions. We do it all the time. Sometimes we are right, sometimes not. Some people take things way to seriously.

My opinion is Hue will never get his record back to .500 as head coach of the Browns. That's going to take a whole lot of winning over the next 4-5 years.

As to the current staff...I think it is pretty solid. I might say that Amos might be a weak link as ST coach, but it is early.

I am not sure who we march out there on ST, but maybe a few more starter types need to be out there. If they already are, then it points more and more to Amos.

Interesting note, Tannehill is 1 of 3 QBs in the NFL that is 9-1 over their last 10 starts.

Carson Wentz and Case Keenum being the other two.

to me... this year is year one for the rebuild of a 3 year plan.

the first two years we had to strip it all the way down and remove the dust from the cabinets. Unfortunately, Hue just had to be "the guy" to put up with all of the pain. How can we honestly say that our team would have won 5-6 games in the last year? Yes, Hue kept them battling and close. we just didn't have the talent.

Another point... there is not one football player that I have seen who has left this team and has said anything about about Hue. When was the last time we have heard anything like that? JT constantly praises what a good coach he is.

This year, we started putting items back in the cabinet. We see a halfway decent football team. We see talent especially on defense. We have a solid FO....

The last piece that needs to happen is that the Browns need to win a game. that will break the streak, that will get the team's beliefs up. The confidence will start to grow and we will get a winning streak.

Sadly, I think most Browns fans now have Battered-Woman's Syndrome.

J/c I don't think Hue's a good HC, but I don't want him fired. I think the current setup can work. I'd rather not blow things up again, though Hue's done a decent bit of blowing things up while he's been here. He seems to have been more of a decision "spray and pray-er" than a decision maker. Let him stay on as the figurehead and motivator/"nice guy." For whatever reason, the players seem to like him. Williams and Haley have seen success as coordinators, it'd be nice to keep them around for a while, and I really can't see the other staying past the season if one gets bumped up as Hue's replacement. They kind of provide a counterbalance to Hue's manic optimism. And, Hue acts as the buffer between them.

Diam, the problem with the QB angle is that there were QBs there that he could have had. He didn't want Wentz at 2. The QB choice that we seem to be able to tie most directly to Hue is AJ McCarron. Maybe Dorsey's pick will work out. Sure Hue "bought in" on Baker, but it was pretty clear that was the way the new boss was heading. Personnel doesn't appear to be Hue's strong suit, and it probably wasn't Sashi's either-at least the picking actual players part. Every coach doesn't have to be BB, though.

Maybe too much worry about the personnel side was part of Hue's difficulty. Maybe now he can just focus on the coaching. Here's hoping it works out.

Which was a shame, because he and Bernie together were magic.

Pure nonsense. I want the team to succeed, which is why I wanted Hue to be fired after going 0-16. I had seen enough.

He was brought back, and while I disagreed with that decision (and still do), I will root for him to do well because I want the team to do well.

Don't want to do a back and forth? That's fine. I probably wouldn't either, if it meant having to repeatedly defend a coach who has one win and thirty-two losses.

If the previous FG kicker made the ones he didn't...Then I believe the discussion would be more like...

The coaching staff is doing a good job with ALL these NEW players.

It's early in the season..EVERYONE is learning about each other.

Some of the play calls were questionable but I think the game plans were on the right track.

Still would like to see the time management get more efficient.

I believe having Bitonio jump over to LT then back to LG may have put him in a funk... Suppose to win ThursdaY.. if the Browns get the win..then I would believe things are on track.

Only two games in...I kind of feel the staff is doing a good job. Game by game then we will have a better view of every ones performances.

WOW ... who’d of thunk of it ...

Ohh .. thats right ... Tanneyhill was hurt last year ... but still .. i would have never guessed ..

And the other two .. just as big a surprise ...

Thanks dawg ...

We need a love button ... i way more than like your post ...

Another viewpoint that i had never seen before ...

Sid Luckman was a QB...Sid Gillman was a coach (mostly with Rams and Chargers)...Al Davis would have loved Gillman as he insisted on stretching the field vertically...at the time...most passes were very short and mostly horizontal...In truth there is a reason Al Davis loved Gillman...He coached under him. As did Chuck Knoll, Chuck Knox, Dick Vermeil, George Allen, and even Don Coryell...

My memory is a little iffy as well...(damn meds...lol) But I am pretty sure you are right that Marty called the Offense the year after Infante left...and it was part of his downfall in Cleveland...

Walsh(no arguments on his greatness...lol) may have found Anderson but the only Super Bowl he played in was in Lindy's Offense...just saying. He had his best 2 years in the league under Lindy...like you said...he was an amazing O-mind that people barely know...

U know where the rabbit hole is ... come on in ... lets exchange views ... i’ve Stood away from this almost completely ... i’ve Dipped my toes in here and there ... well now i’ve Dove in head first ...

Lets rap ... and when the dust settles we’ll go have a beer and root for our dawgs ...

We got food and water in the rabbit hole .. its not quite as nice as the Isle ... but it rocks as far as rabbit holes go .. *L* ...

I'm not sure what else there is to exchange. What I wrote in this thread is how I feel. Check out that FiveThirtyEight piece I linked. They calculated that a purely replacement-level team would have a 0.1% chance of only winning one game in two seasons.

This is what some people have a hard time grasping. I understand the talent level wasn't that good those two years. This does not excuse going 1-31! There are a lot of bad teams in the league every single year. 1-31 is historically bad for a reason and Hue had a big part in that (were there not several games that we should have won, but choked away in mind-boggling fashion?)

Or take this post from earlier in the summer:



etc etc. I've said my piece though. I get it, the season is young and people are tired of hearing about Hue. I'll tell you what, if at any time Hue Jackson does not have a losing record-- either in his career or current record for the season (in the off-season, we will use the previous year's record), I won't rag on the guy. So all he has to do is win on Thursday and then maintain at least a .500 winning percentage and you won't hear me say anything bad about Hue. Is that fair?

The Browns are at home and facing the Jets, who went 5-11 last year and are starting the QB that we passed on in the draft.

Expect a win! Enough with the excuses, and "moral" victories. I want real victories!

Thinking about the Coaching Staff... The only real problem I see is Special Teams..

Where is Chris Tabor when you need him.... Bummer. (I know, he's in Chicago)

And yet more lies from the agenda guy.

I'm not a big Hue fan, have always been kind of wait and see on him. Last year I wanted him gone but understood why Haslam was keeping him. Things are moving in the right direction since Dorsey got here, so even though I'm sick of losing I think giving him at least the season is the right move for the team.

Firing him midseason will disrupt the players' focus on improving. And considering the difference in talent, maybe he deserves a chance to win with a real team. No excuses beyond this year. He needs to win a handful or go.

I can't remember the name of our current ST Coach...But I do remember I was not very happy with the hire...His special Teams have never rated very highly...which is probably why he was available...lol

Amos Jones, and I cannot understand why we hired him.

The OL coach is one I don't get. He sounded dumber than a box of rocks on hard knocks. But he has a ton of experience, so that counts for something.

....Yeah...the name doesn't hit me....LMAO I did not and do not understand his hire...I might have given the job to a promising position coach first...JMO

Actually, I like Bob Wylie....he is definitely one of those "don't judge a book by it's cover" kind of guys. Joe Thomas thinks highly of him...Hard Knocks was usually only showing him when the "walrus" was doing something funny. When I first saw him last year...I was like...who the heck is this guy...but the more I find out about him...the more I like him...

I mean "come on"....the guy drives a Maserati!!!!lol

I think it was in the final Hard Knocks, at the very end, where they had the hot girl sitting on his desk, and Wiley says something about his next hot girlfriend. Just classic.

Wylie is highly respected in the NFL for his OL coaching.

Our OL is playing really well Not their fault that Taylor runs himself into sacks. Seriously, text book blocks by our tackles and taylor jumps into the arms of the DT for no damn reason. Not their fault that the Saints put 9 up with single coverage the majority of the game to stop the run. WE get Baker in there and thks OL is gonna look a hell of a lot better as will our receivers and backs.

I am not a Hue fan but this past week, imho was his best coaching job since he was here. Team is playing hard and not making a lot of the mental mistakes I have seen in the past.

Hue lost a lot of close games in the past because of bad decisions, He has done everything possible to put us in perfect position to win. Its all a matter now of when is the rookie QB ready to take the reigns.

Yes i know Hue's job is to get the rookie ready. Well Ota Baker was one read and run. Camp he was 2 reads and fluster. I want him to play now but this staff is doing it the right way. Think about this shotgun spread QB never took a snap under center and He didnt bobble a snap in preseason. He was commanding the huddle. He was going through progressions. His pre and post snap were steadyily improving. albeit against vanilla defenses.

Anyway, This staff is doing their jobs and doing it well minus special teams. I expect a big jump in both coverage, blocking and kicking.

Your way smarter them me at this stuff .. honestly from what i read in th3e cess pool your way smarter than me period ... there was a bunch of smart people over there on both sides ... and I shouldn’t use the term cess pool when responding to u .. u stood out of it ... so thats not fair of me ..

Anyhow .. my question would be .. and i dont pretend to know that stuff even a little bit ...

What would the odds be of them only winning one game when u put in Kessler and 8 other QB’s in year 1 and then Kizer in year two ...

And I am by no means a fan of what Hue did the last two years ... but i won’t hold out against him ... IMO with that team and the talent level at qb ... he was in over his head ...

To me ... and i’m Nnot sure why folks on your side don’t see that he3 has an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT job this year ....

So for me .. he’s starts fresh ...




I don’t agree there was several ... u said there was nothing to talk about cause its all been said ... i have stood out of these debates for a bunch of reasons ... so i’mnot sure what has been said ...

Has anyone asked witch games they are ... have ya’all given specific games Hue blew or are we jut talking in generalities here ...



They were both HC’S and not HC/coordinators ... no?

Who were there QB’s .. do u remember? .. and we went 3 - 13 the year before Hue got here ... and we “TORE IT DOWN” ... WHAT THE HECK WAS THERE TO TEAR DOWN ... *L* ...

We only had a handful of good players the day Sashi walked in ... and then IMO he screwed up with Schwartz ... and we lost Mack, Gipson and Benji through no fault of Sashi’s IMO ...

Then we traded down 9 times in every round it seemed in year 1 ... *L* ...

So we lost almost all if not all of the very few decent to talented players we had and then traded down twice in the first round to make sure we didnt get an IMPACT PLAYER ...

This sounds like excuses ... its not ... its FACTS ... and seeing as how i almost never pay attention to what u guys have been chatting about i dont know if this has ever come up ...




What the don did to him was HORRIBLE ... what a douche he was ...

He had Couch at least ...



Fair ... naaaa ... the best deal i’ll Get cause i dont feel like negotiating right now ... *L* ...

Ya ... i’ll ake that deal ...

And record isn’t the be all end all for me ... lots of things go into a record ... we could end up 9 - 7 this year and i still could end up thinking hue did a crappy job ... and vice versa ... we could go 3 - 13 and i could think He did a good job ...

ballpeen, who really cares if he gets his overall record back to .500. All I care about is that our record for 2018-2022 average 10-12 wins per season. If that happens, ballpeen, will you really care about those first two years??

In two separate posts you wrote that you think Hue cost us 2 maybe 3 wins, in another post you wrote that if you think Hue cost us 4 or 5 wins you're not paying attention. I took that to mean you didn't think that he cost us 4 to 5 games. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I don't keep track of the games Hue's fouled up, there's been a bunch... a few off the top of my head the Dolphins, Jets, the Lions, the Packers games were real.

The Packers went 4-3 with Rodgers then 3-6 with Hundley. Hundley is awful. In fact that got rid of him for Kizer. Mccarthy did a grand job getting 3 wins with Hundley... and if I recall the Packers-Browns game we were simply outcoached...again.

Honestly, I don't want Hue fired this year, but I think it's inevitable he is let go after this season. I'll probably have some knee jerk comments after a poor showing and want him fired... but we are better off if he coaches 16 games unless, as some have pointed out, the team gives up. I don't think better talent will make him a better head coach. I think he'll be the same. This has been my stance, I've not wavered... I still contend we will not win (in a generic sense) until we have better head coaching and better quarterback play.

I can't see how we can lose this one... I really don't...

No agenda... and no lies either... wrong person... carry on.