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As for cap relief, NO WAY. We should not be making exceptions ever for criminals. The teams should be much more careful from now on.
#gmstrong
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I'm supporting Mike Vick. I have made mistakes in my life, done stuff I'm not proud of---and I didn't have it plastered all over the media because I'm not in a position of high visibility.
Well,if you made a "choice" to PUT YOURSELF in the media spotlight because of YOUR CHOSEN profession,then maybe you should take the heat that comes with that responsibility and act accordingly. Or are you trying to suggest that Vick was too stupid to understand that "starting NFL QB's who sign 100+ million dollar contracts" aren't PUTTING THEMSELF in that situation when they CHOOSE to do that for a living?
You've wet down and intentionaly electricuted animals? Hung them? Made "cruelty to animals" not a "one time mistake" but a hobby and way of life for FIVE YEARS!? Then you sir,would also be consudered a sick individual in my book.
I've made mstakes as well. But I have not made brutality and cruelty one of my passtimes,investments and way of life. Have you?
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Vick was involved in this stuff, he's owning up to it and trying to put it behind him and you people want to see him lose his entire livelihood. IMO thats just not right.
He's trapped. He's guilty as hell and has no chance to beat the rap. Owned up to it? OH! You mean AFTER lying to the commissioner of the NFL,the owner of the Atlanta Falcons,their fans and anyone else that would listen? You mean AFTER three co-defendants rolled over on him and he had no choice other than face more charges which may have very well included organised crime?
That kind of "owned up to it"?
Pulease....................
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He should see some time---I think 6-9 months of incarceration is good. Pair that with a fine, and a year suspension from the NFL and that should be ample. Just because he was involved in dogfighting and betting on it does not necessitate the destruction of his career.
Thank you judge/NFL Commissioner Tyler.
The law dictates a much stiffer penalty here. He AGREED to a "reccommended 12-18 months". Why? Because he KNEW his "crime CALLED for a much longer stretch" in the pen. So you think you should be able to re-write this? That even though Vick "agreed to this himself" you know better?
Not only that. As far as the commissioner is concerned? Not only has Vick commited this crime,but he sat right in front of him and "straight faced lied" to Goodell saying "he had nothing to do with it". Yeah,I'm sure Goodell is going to forget about that.
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I don't think any of you would want your career destroyed because of mistakes you made---and yet you advocate the destruction of someone else's career for that persons transgressions.
If I was this moraly bankrupt in regards to cruelty and abuse of life? I may not want it,but I'd damn sure deserve it. I'd be one sick individual. Not just "a guy who made a mistake". Mistake is the singular use of the word Tyler. Who you tryin' to fool here?
This was a continued pattern of mistakes over the course of years.
Not A mistake.
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Mike Vick worked his butt off for 27 years to be an NFL QB and you people want to take that away because he fought and bet on dogs for like 5 years. Give me a break.
"Fought dogs"? Is that all he did Tyler? Is that legal Tyler. Is organised crime and gambling Tyler? Is financing the entire operation "just fighting dogs" Tyler? Are commiting acts such as the hanging and electricution of animals "just fighting dogs" Tyler?
Face reality Tyler,your excuses and the minimizing of the true picture and facts of the matter aren't even remotely on the same page with the "truth" here.
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Leonard Little killed someone while driinking and driving, and he has had drunk driving arrests since then and he doesn't get that kind of treatment--so why present it here?
Because one man avoided justice,you wish to see that repeated. You wish to perpetuate such stupidity? Brilliant!
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Here's why, because people hear dogs are involved and become overly emotional--they want to see Vick suffer a long time---but that is just not right.
No,it's because people like you wish to take a five year,repeated pattern of deprivation and illegality,and call it "one mistake". Instead of the HUNDREDS of mistakes that were ACTUALLY commited over that five year period of time. That show true deprivation and cruelty during that entire five year period.
A mistake? Not on your life.
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I think Vick has been punished already by sidelining his career, he's been punished by taking away his paychecks, he should only face what I have suggested above anything else is simply ludicrous.
And obviously myself,the judge,the prosecter and even the fact that Michael Vick himself accepted this deal,just goes to show that most people don't agree with you're justifications. They are weak,understated and trivialise the truth of the situation. Common sense and justice will prevail over your fabrications as you've presented them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You can't believe he would defend Vick ? Doesn't Derden always pick the most contrary point of view just to argue with the board ? Nobody should take him seriously.
I quietly agree with some of his stances, especially on drugs. This is just ridiculous though.
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Is that all? 
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people hear dogs are involved and become overly emotional--they want to see Vick suffer a long time---but that is just not right.
I am here to tell you that is BS. I am NOT an animal lover. I despise dogs, specially Pitbulls (No offense PitDawg). That being said, he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law for multiple reasons.
1. He broke the law....Period.
2. Should serve as a deterrent to other thug criminal types who may be thinking of doing the same.
3. As disturbing as it is, he acts as a role model for the younger people in our society (children)
As far as the NFL, he should be banned for life.
The only good out of this....even if he isn't suspended for a single game, what team would have this criminal play for them?
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Leonard Little killed someone while driinking and driving, and he has had drunk driving arrests since then and he doesn't get that kind of treatment--so why present it here?
While I agree, Little deserves much more severe treatment, there is one glaring difference....
PREMEDITATION.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.) ![[Linked Image from i87.photobucket.com]](http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k155/brownsfan4173/NFL-Football.jpg)
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See Tyler I told you those drugs would come back to hurt you. They have fried your brain 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I think he will end up with about 3 years with probation and end up walking dogs down Broadway in NYC. He'll have plenty of time to think over his past decisions and what they have cost him. Sad and tragic for all involved, mostly though the poor animals.JMHO
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I understand your career would be over---but would you support that. Is that just---no, its not. I know that if my career would end over this kind of garbage than I would not be happy. And I would think that I deserved another chance. I know if any of you faced this, than you'd think that you deserved another chance to make things right---but when its somebody else--especially someone that enjoys the privilege of a professional athlete--then everyone wants them to suffer. To me that hypocritical. If any of you got involved in something, you'd beg for a second chance--but when someone else is in trouble--you want to nail them to the wall.
Hypocrites.
Dogfighting for years doesn't deserve another chance. Period.
Hypicritical or Not hypicritical. 
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Mike Vick's NFL career is over. He had a decade long contract for over nine figures because he was counted on to be the face of the Atlanta Falcons. You can't be the face of the Atlanta Falcons when you're executing animals for gambling purposes.
He'll have his shot at redemption in life, but as far as football goes, he'll probably get a few small blurbs about tryouts a la Tim Couch. Maybe Arena ball.
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I believe granting cap relief is a bad precedent to set and don't think the NFL will do that.
I don't think the NFL did that for Cory Stringer...and he died.
The only time the league should grant some type of relief is if a team plane crashed or something along those lines.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Dogfighting for years doesn't deserve another chance. Period.
That is what grabs the headlines, but the reality of the matter is that is the least of his problems.
The news makes it about dogfighting, the force of the law lies in other crimes.
The government doesn't really give a darn about some dogs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The only time the league should grant some type of relief is if a team plane crashed or something along those lines.
Have a team in mind? 
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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The only time the league should grant some type of relief is if a team plane crashed or something along those lines.
Have a team in mind?
No....I wouldn't wish that on anybody.
I know you were just kidding.
I just don't see the league opening that mess because once you do, you have a real credibility problem.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Pit...I haven't read squat of this thread but let me tell u what I think without even knowing how u feel about it....And I PRAY we agree...
Mike Vick is a despiseable piece of u know what...Vick's a BLATANT LIAR...And it's DISPICABLE that he's taking away from the REAL NFL reporting as of today...
This chump was a SLUG BEFORE he even went to Virginia Tech...His brother is prolly WORSE...
Tell ya' one thing...Goodell will NEVER let this POS back in the league that is the epitome of ALL LEAGUES...If he ever does...Goodell should be FIRED ON THE SPOT...
This has NOTHING to do with 2nd chances...This has EVERYTHING to do with a Wanna Be QB LYING THRU HIS F'IN TEETH FROM THE BEGINNING...
THAT is what pisses me off...The dude has the world by the balls...Does he think we're IGNORANT???
Not Here Baby...Screw u Vick...NEVER again should u ever take an NFL snap as a wanna be QB...
Go Browns!!!
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We agree, And it wasn't a "one time case". It was an going succession of cruelty,illegal gambling and felonious acts over a five year period. Not simply "a single mistake". He lied to Blank,Goodell,all of his fans and everyone who would listen. And I'm sure that to the league,not only will a felony conviction of dog fighting carry a lot of weight,but the illegal gambling and straight faced lies to the commissioner make his problems with the league three fold. And I think he's a worthless,low life POS. So yep.we agree! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Well,I think a lifetime ban on Pete Rose keeping him out of the HOF was too harsh.
Since Rose last played 67 years (or so) after Shoeless Joe last played, I'd be OK with Rose getting to the HOF 67 years (or so) after Jackson.
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Listened to Fox Sports Radio tonight and Ray Buchanon said that being in an 8x8 cell will help Michael learn to be a pocket passer - not much room to run around.
Also said he was going from filet mignon and lobster to boloney, jello and flip-flops.
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I know you were just kidding.
Yes, indeed I was.
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just don't see the league opening that mess because once you do, you have a real credibility problem.
Agreed.
[b]USNavyDawg (Ret.)
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I just don't see the league opening that mess because once you do, you have a real credibility problem.
No way should the NFL give cap relief... I know the Falcons organization did nothing wrong... but if the NFL wants to send a message to the players and the teams... that has to be part of it. If your going to pick up a loose cannon in the draft or free agency who has a history... and he explodes while on your team... don't expect any sympathy from the league........
yebat' Putin
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I may be a hard headed radical in thinking not only should we NOT give salary cap relief, the league should count any player's prorated portion of the SB for the period of time suspended against the total cap if that player is suspended for violations of the law.. conduct detrimental to the NFL / team regardless if they ever return to the NFL or not.
How's about them apples for making sure teams do due diligence before drafting a player?
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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That is a little overboard.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Oh, it prolly is.. but can you imagine how close these guys would get looked over in March? Not only that, imagine how everyone would structure contracts differently?
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Now that there is a Guilty Plea (or will be next Monday...whatever)... I would expect that once it is truly officially entered as his plea that the Falcons will begin proceedings to recoup as much of his signing bonus(es) as they can. That money WILL give them some cap relief, and I have no problem with that as it falls in line with how the money is accounted for under the CBA.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And I happen to believe that the falcons taking back whatever they can from him is the right thing to do.
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No... not Hypocrites...
We know what would happen to us if we would do the same thing. We know it and we accept the consequences. Vick claimed to look forward to clearing his name, tell me... did he clear his name??? He lied to his team's owner. He lied to the public. He lied to the NFL Commissioner. Vick committed Federal Felonies. He was an NFL QB with ties to gambling.
I would expect to lose my job, spend time in jail, and work the grill at a fast food restaurant for the rest of my life......
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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I'm supporting Mike Vick. I have made mistakes in my life, done stuff I'm not proud of---and I didn't have it plastered all over the media because I'm not in a position of high visibility.
Vick was involved in this stuff, he's owning up to it and trying to put it behind him and you people want to see him lose his entire livelihood. IMO thats just not right.
He should see some time---I think 6-9 months of incarceration is good. Pair that with a fine, and a year suspension from the NFL and that should be ample. Just because he was involved in dogfighting and betting on it does not necessitate the destruction of his career.
I don't think any of you would want your career destroyed because of mistakes you made---and yet you advocate the destruction of someone else's career for that persons transgressions.
Mike Vick worked his butt off for 27 years to be an NFL QB and you people want to take that away because he fought and bet on dogs for like 5 years. Give me a break.
Leonard Little killed someone while driinking and driving, and he has had drunk driving arrests since then and he doesn't get that kind of treatment--so why present it here?
Here's why, because people hear dogs are involved and become overly emotional--they want to see Vick suffer a long time---but that is just not right.
I think Vick has been punished already by sidelining his career, he's been punished by taking away his paychecks, he should only face what I have suggested above anything else is simply ludicrous.
1. Owning up to it is HARDLY what he's doing. If you know anything about a plea agreement, it's like giving up your greatest dream so that you don't have to realize your worst nightmare. Here, he reached a plea agreement to preclude any further charges being raised.
2. I have no sympathy for Vick. He PURPOSEFULLY and KNOWINGLY committed this crime. It's not something he had to do for the money or to make ends meet. It's not something that he did under Duress or Necessity. The sickest part is that he is a very rich man who had the world at his grasp. He chose to take the power and money that he was given and invest in torturing and inhumanely executing dogs. Meanwhile, Justin Hamilton donates more money than Michael Vick to the Virginia Tech tragedy...!!!
The law is the law. He threw away his career. He punished himself. He deserves whatever the judge gives (and probably more IMO).
*Steps off soap box*
On a side note, I wonder what team would be willing to actually pick him up when he gets out of jail.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Da Bengals of course. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Oh, it prolly is.. but can you imagine how close these guys would get looked over in March? Not only that, imagine how everyone would structure contracts differently?
In the end someone would take a player like Vick...and these guys are picked over pretty good as it is.
"ahh...I see you broke a window when you were 14"
I think the contracts are already structured in a way they can seek remedy. Money still due is probably safe, and I would imagine some past money is recoverable.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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According to ESPN last night, Vick is on the Falcons suspended list and will likely remain there until June of 08... which is when it benefits them the most to dump him....
yebat' Putin
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vick caseThe Discovery for Vick 
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Thanks! Seeing things "first hand" is always better than any other type of information IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Will the real pitdawg (pitdog) please stand up? 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I don't think what he did was right...I LOVE ANIMALS and I personally could never kill one, and thank goodness there was no jury involved; how bias would that be...the case would've probably become a mistrial...anyways, we cannot bring our own feelings into this...what he did was his choice and it has been done... ... but people are complaining that he should get the maximum...that's all fine and dandy but people should realize that what he did was not all that bad...there are some people who rape people and only get 6 months...it's ok for a guy to hit his girl and just get probation though? No that sentence is not just...no crime is right, but his 1 year in jail fits his crime...he did not kill someone. There are some people who are guilty of murder that only get 6 years...so do I think that someone who participated in dog fighting should get the max. 5 years...no. His punishment is just and he already has lost his image and probably from playing in the NFL. I do not know Michael Vick but as always, people in the spotlight are media bait...and unfortunately, this crime takes place daily and those little guys are not getting punished like this...of course they are making such a big deal over this, that's how sleezy the media is. I think people just need to stop making it a big deal...he accepted the plea bargain, so let it be; treat him just as any other average joe schmoe! We all know he is guilty...so what else is there to discuss? 
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Laws have sentencing guidelines for a reason. He will be punished accordingly. The plea agreement guidelines are 12-18 months. The judge has the final say considering the depth of his involvement,prior record etc.....
I'll stand pat with the Judge and due process of laws final decision over "Judge Crush" opinion and minimization of the "five year pattern of illegality and abuse" that Vick has shown in this case thank you very much.
See,you kinda left that part out didn't you? This isn't a "one time thing". This isn't a "single incident". It's a pattern of abuse and illegality over a continuious five year period of time. Not a "single incident".
So if you wish to discuss this from a realistic point of view,maybe you should face the fact that it wasn't a "single act of criminal behavior". But probably hundreds of acts over a five year period. Because that's the reality of it.
And hopefully,any Judge worth their salt fully understands that reality.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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As I understand it, this "company" was established 5 years ago... but as far as the really barbaric things they did to dogs, all of that took place this spring.... at least all that they know about... We may never know how the whole thing unfolded from start to finish since everybody is pleading out.... I guess maybe some day one of them will get a literate person to write a book on their behalf... but it would be interesting to know how it all unfolded.
yebat' Putin
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Will the real pitdawg (pitdog) please stand up?
Me? You talkin' to me? Since I'm the only one standing here,you must be talkin' to me?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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As I understand it, this "company" was established 5 years ago...
Which would mean it's equates to a five year history of criminal activity based fully upon "animal cruelty" which is exactly what fighting Pit Bulls is according to law. To organise and finance a business who's very basis is "animal cruelty" is a major part of this "pattern of criminal activity" of which I speak.
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but as far as the really barbaric things they did to dogs, all of that took place this spring.... at least all that they know about...
So the fact that the abuse continued only to "increase in severity" (from what we know) is moreso semantics than legality is it not? Fighting these animals in the first place is "animal cruelty and abuse". Financing and setting up such a business is exactly what makes these very things possible on a major scale.
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We may never know how the whole thing unfolded from start to finish since everybody is pleading out.... I guess maybe some day one of them will get a literate person to write a book on their behalf... but it would be interesting to know how it all unfolded.
What we do know is that Vck is the one who funded and set up the financing that made this operation possible. Which IS illegal. And continued in an illegal venture that promoted and in essence existed on commiting animal cruelty for an approximate five year period.
Continually repeating in breaking laws in this regard to one extent and severity or the other over that five year period.
Not "one incident" nor a "single act". But a pattern of criminal behavior over a five year period. Which is precisely my point.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Pit, I know this is a very sensitive subject for you... but please, lighten up on me... Your response makes it seem like I'm defending Vick.. or excusing him.. or taking a softer stand... I assure you, I'm not. I'm just wondering out loud if we will ever know how this whole thing unfolded... was this "business" set up with the express intent of fighting dogs? Was it Vicks idea or was he financing it for a friend and he got into it later? When did the actual dog fighting begin?
None of the answers to any of my questions change my opinion that I hope they all get what they deserve... I'm just curious to learn how it all played out... ok?
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,682
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,682 |
Quote:
I guess maybe some day one of them will get a literate person to write a book on their behalf..
LOL....
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Vick reaches plea agreement on
dogfighting
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