DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trade RB Carlos Hyde to Jacksonville.

Uh? What? Duke has more NFL stats than Eckler and Saquon. Duke's ranked in the top 10 in elusiveness in every year since he's been drafted. his highest rating was in the low 70's and his lowest rating was in the 50's.

In terms of injury possibility, my guess is we like Hilliard as our 3rd RB (maybe why he came up for practice a week early)

WE tried for a Receiver. Jax said no.

Moving on.

Finally we're going to start seeing Chubb and Johnson giving Mayfield a checkdown option.

I bet Johnson gets 7+ targets tomorrow. And has a huge game.

Maybe I missed it, did we try to get one of their WRs?

thanks

Thanks for sharing your thoughts instead of focusing on the haters ... appreciatte it ...

I disagree with bone ... this is big IMO ... it clearly tells me ...

- were placing a higher value on getting the youngins PT than trying to win games ... that’s NOT TANKING ... its choosing developing players for the future over playing vets today that give u a better shot of winning today .. HUGE DIFFERENCE ...

U couple this move with the fact we haven’t brought in a vet WR (although Streeter is the one Anamoly in my theory) .... and everyone else we’ve brought in has been young and to me that makes it clear what were doing here ....

- i also think this bodes very badly for the Hue haters .... i think this signals barring a major meltdown by the team Hue is secure in his job through at least next year ... IF the plan is to play the youth and “tie Hue’s hands” in the sense that were not playing the vets and going with a youth movement ...

Am i reading too much into things again? ... its a question, please just answer it and don’t read anything into it other than what it is ... a question about a theory ....

One last thing .. Bake is not a part of this in that he forced there hand ... he left them no choice after the Jets game ... there was no turning back after that performance .. he showed he was ready to be thrown into the fire ....

So while he wasn’t a part of the “youth movement” he was more than likely the catalyst for it ... this is all just a theory .. but to me it makes sense and is logical ....

Thoughts? ....

Could be. I disagree with the haters comment. I assume you include in in that comment. Trust me, i don't hate Hue. I root for him to win each and every week. Not once have I ever hoped he lost a game.


Anyway....a few things don't add up. One of the tweets said the jags initiated the trade. I find that hard to believe.

Out of the blue they called us up and offered a 6th rounder that Dorsey managed to get a 5th rounder? It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know what prompted the trade, but something did because a 5th rounder isn't what I consider good value. There is something else going on

Stupid move on Dorsey's part IMO The biggest problem with our roster right now is the lack of quality depth. If we wanted Chub and Johnson to handle the ball more I am all for that BUT to just get ride of Hyde for a 5th round pick is just stupid.

I've been a Hyde fan since his college days.
I was surprised at the trade but more surprised we got a 5th!
I always saw Hyde as an NFL tough solid backup Back.
That's pretty much what he has turned out to be.

I figured Hyde was a 'one and done' here.
3 year deal was a hedge in case he turned out to find something special.... he didn't.

My way of looking at this year is that Hyde was brought in to grind as Chubb learned. Chubb's shown that at times he can light it up!
Time to turn him loose.

Duke, after preseason and beginning the year w/ TT, now has had time to practice w/ Baker.
He should have fresh legs, healthy body and a drive to show what he can do.
Time to see what the Chubb/Duke combo can do for real.

Just to clarify bro ...

When i say hater i don’t mean u hate hue ... u hate the idea that hue is the head coach .. i would never ever ASSume hate in someone’s heart for another person ...

Thats not what i mean at all ...

And i know u root for him every game ... i also am not even coming remotely close to questioning u being a fan ... we just disagree on hue right now ... you expect results today to show in the W column ... i expect to see improvement form a young WOUNDED team ...

Guess i should have clarified that years ago ...

I'm a Hyde fan and he played well for us. But we are strong at the position and need to see more of Chubb. A fifth to be chosen by Sashi would be a ripoff. With Dorsey, it could be an all-pro. Can't get too upset over this.

Good post.

I think you bring up a good point about us dedicating the time and effort to develop the youth. You can find further evidence of that in the fact that we haven't signed on of the vet WRs on the market. All of this is probably an indication that this year is about developing the young guys and learning how to win some games. We have talked about that in your Optimism thread.

I don't know if trading Hyde means Hue is safer. I just have always got the feeling that Dorsey and Hue are working together just fine and that they respect one another. You could see the chemistry between the guys on Hard Knocks. You could also see how Dorsey went out and got some of the types of players that Hue wanted. I'd say the trading of Hyde doesn't give us any new information on the Dorsey/Hue relationship one way or the other.

I was thinking of something this morning before I signed on. We elevated Hilliard from the Practice Squad recently. I wonder if they started to try and find a trading partner for Hyde at that time? Duke's snap counts have increased since Hilliard was promoted while Hyde's decreased.

I don't think trading Hyde was a terrible move, but I do have a few concerns. The first is protecting Baker. While I don't think he is god like many do, I have liked what I've seen and I don't want him getting killed because Chubb misses a blocking assignment. The second is that Hyde doesn't fumble and the weather is going to get colder. The last thing is what do we do if one of our RBs goes down? Hilliard?

Go look at the graphic again.

I like Dane and his takes, but his is not a fundamentally sound argument. Referencing two people in round 5 (one just drafted months ago) as justification that whatever happens with this 5th round will be fine is dumb.

As fifth rounders he also drafted Sanders Cummings & Aaron Murray. See? I can do the same thing but in the opposite direction.

I've seen his posts on Dorsey and he likes him, which is fine. This posts further illustrates it.

I tend to agree.

I understand why the trade was made but a 5th is not enough. Hyde is a good back and the Jags really needed one. I would have liked to see a 3rd for him.

I would have liked a 3rd too, but realistically what could he have gotten us? An "older" RB with an average YPC and can't catch very well

There was no chance of getting a 3rd for Hyde. That's just crazy talk. He's a good RB, who runs hard, but who doesn't break many runs. He also didn't get stronger as the game went on, when he got more carries.

Hyde was fairly pedestrian this season, but was useful in a role. The only real concern I have is that Hyde was able to smash the ball in down close. Hopefully Chubb is ready for that role.

Cleveland Browns trade of Carlos Hyde had to be made: Terry Pluto | cleveland.com
https://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ss...art_river_index

CLEVELAND -- There is more to the Browns trading Carlos Hyde to Jacksonville on Friday than creating time for rookie Nick Chubb.

It's true the front office wants to see more of Chubb, the Georgia running back who was picked in the second round.

In fact, the Browns used the 2018 second-round selection obtained in the Brock Osweiler deal with Houston to grab the 5-foot-11, 230-pound Chubb.

But the John Dorsey front office also signed Duke Johnson to a 3-year, $15.6 million contract extension. That included $7.7 million in guaranteed money.

The Johnson contract put him among the 10 highest paid running backs in the NFL.

After six games, the front office saw Chubb and Johnson being left out of the main game plans.

Johnson had 19 carries. Chubb had 16.

This made no sense, and it had to change.

Browns offensive coordinator Todd Haley tends to concentrate on one running back. That back was Hyde, the former Ohio State star.

The Browns want Johnson to be a more integral part of the offense. He is considered an elite pass catcher out of the backfield. He had 74 receptions in 2017. But Johnson caught only 14 passes in the first six games. He carried the ball 19 times for a 5.8-yard average.

It's obvious the 25-year-old Johnson still can be effective, he just needs more chances to touch the ball. And the Browns didn't pay him so well to be an afterthought in the offense.

The combination of Hyde and Chubb led to Hyde being traded Friday to Jackonsville for a fifth-rounder in 2019.

PILING UP BACKS

It was Dorsey's decision to sign Hyde to a 3-year, $15 million deal with $5 million guaranteed. That's according to overthecap.com.

Hyde had been a solid back with San Francisco, and Dorsey wanted to add experience to the roster. He also made the Hyde deal before the draft. In other words, Chubb wasn't on the roster yet.

Hyde ran very hard, breaking tackles. He had 114 of the team's 178 rushing attempts. But Hyde averaged only 3.4 yards per carry.

If the Browns didn't have Chubb, a Johnson/Hyde combination could work.

But Chubb has something Hyde lacks -- breakaway speed. Hyde's longest run was 22 yards this season.

ESPN ranked 47 running backs who have at least 30 carries this season. Hyde ranked No. 42 at 3.4 yards per attempt.

That's why his market value wasn't high.

Teams want their runners to average at least 4.0 yards per carry.

Chubb has only had 16 carries, but he has runs of 63, 41, 19 and 17 yards. He is one of those backs who seems faster in game action compared to when running the 40-yard dash. Dorsey also wanted depth at running back. They do get hurt.

That's why Jacksonville dealt for Hyde. Star running back Leonard Fournette is out indefinitely with a hamstring injury.

MAKING ROOM

After six games, it's obvious the front office wants to see more of the young players.

Because Chubb has exceeded expectations, his time is now. And because Johnson has been under-utilized, room must be made for both backs.

It's why the Browns are reluctant to give up a lot of assets such as a high draft pick for a receiver. They prefer to look at Jarvis Landry and their younger players.

The Browns have been quietly adding draft picks in trades.

They added a third-rounder from New England (for Danny Shelton).

They added a fifth-rounder from New England (for Josh Gordon) and a fifth-rounder from Jacksonville (for Hyde).

They added a seventh-rounder from Jacksonville (for Cody Kessler).

So the trade adds to their draft capital. But it also forces the coaches to use their two best backs as Dorsey continues to reshape the Browns.

I agree with everything Pluto said there

No offense to the messenger(Y-Town) but that's a load of crap.
If Hue/Dorsey wanted to see Chubb/Johnson get more carries,than they could have gotten that message to Haley,in no uncertain terms.

Last I checked,Haley works for Hue/Dorsey.

Trading Hyde makes zero sense in my mind.Johnson will soon be nicked up,and there is no track record on Chubb to determine if can stay healthy or not.
If this season is about getting the young guys playing time,sacrificing wins along the way,then I see no reason to tune in.

Thank-you,I now feel so much better about this trade.
Everybody knows that people who get paid lots of money to make decisions are never wrong.

While I still think the player usage split was part of the issue, I'm starting to think someone decided getting the ball out to a hot route/check down would be a better way of mitigating pass rush than keeping a back in to block.

Duke and Chubb are more likely to break something in space.

Still would have liked to keep Hyde for short yardage, but our O needs more chunk plays.

Good point about short yardage (that was a strength of Hyde, especially on the goal line) ... I wonder if Chubb can get the tough yards

Not sure why people think hyde>Chubb in short yardage. Chubb is just as powerful and has more explosion. Hyde is 6’ 229lbs, chubb is 5’11 230

j/c

A few thoughts...

It's entirely plausible that the jaguars came forth and asked for Hyde.

I think a 5th is more than fair for Hyde. It's a great deal, probably for both of us. Hyde most likely wasn't going to be here next season. The Jags were in the conference title game last year and are probably looking to see how they can get back.

I think there are some who don't want to believe or want to realize that Hue's seat is pretty darn hot. Wake up.

I believe no one here is an insider so I think it's pretty obvious that most posts are opinions with or without the use of the word "may." The bickering about it is what makes this board "dumb" not the people who express their opinions.

JC

Don't know about all the conspiracy theories. Jags call Dorsey, I would suspect, in NFL circles, GMs have an idea of who may be available or not before they even make a call. Dorsey discusses with Hue, Hue feels comfortable moving forward, they either discuss with or inform Haley.

I like Hyde because of his toughness and ability to "carry the load", beyond that - he's really nothing special... and the room was crowded.

We analyze everything from a fan prospective, we see a solid unit and depth. Most of us have agreed that Duke and Chubb should see more carries. While Hyde carries the load, he does not strike fear into any DCs heart... he's not a weapon by any stretch.

A FO and coaching staff has way more on their plate. Strengths and weaknesses and how they fit into a scheme, attitude, work ethic, how a player's strengths or weaknesses effect other players around them, EGO... just to name a few. Dorsey's looking through the door of the RB room and sees a back that has been, and thinks he should be, a "bell-cow" back, a rookie chomping at the bit who has shown great potential, and a frustrated vet who's been there, through all the lows, wondering why he is still sitting in the back seat.

You can look at trades all over any league and be confused because you admire the players skill-set, etc... bottom line, sometimes organizations have just one litmus test - will this guy take us to the promised land. The Browns offense is stagnant partially because Hyde presents no threat to opposing defenses. We're not going anywhere with a 3 yards and cloud of dust RB, so just cut that box from the flowchart and move forward.

Dorsey obviously has no problem cutting ties, making decisions and moving forward. To be honest, I see the opposite as one of the biggest problems with most organizations. Winners make decisions and don't look back.

I know, I know, as a Browns fan my first thought was "one of these guys will get injured and we'll wish we never made this move" ~or~ "we should have been able to pry away at least a 4th round pick". We always seem to value our players much higher than we should when they're traded. I guess if we actively shopped Carlos, for weeks on end, we could have probably inked a 4th from somebody. Dorsey said "let's move forward".

Ammunition in next years draft, seeing what we get from the rookie, and giving Duke a fighting chance to show why he's special, is much more important in the big scheme of things than three yards and a cloud of dust.

That article is a pile!

I won't be convinced you can't just bench a player if that's what you want to do.

Article's attempt to explain this move is ridiculous.

My humble yet angry and unhinged opinion!

and this is the kind of thing the Browns never learn!

( to anybody who posted that this move means the plan isn't to win?????,
Will the plan be to win any time in the next freaking! Decade!)

clearly Hyde was not in our plans after this year ... and I find it really hard to believe that Hue/Dorsey had not discussed this before yesterday. I think it's a good, concerted move

A lot has been covered already so I'll keep it brief.

1) Hyde was signed before we drafted Chubb. Good signing.

2) Chubb was taken in the second round with a pick we got for Brock, valuable pick on a good player, but he's still a rookie.

3) Six games in we have tape on both, and Chubb now has valuable game experience.

4) Hyde, though he's under a three year contract is probably cut EOY, and we end up eating part of that contract, if I understand correctly.

5) At some point this season, Hyde is likely relegated to a backup role in favor of Chubb.

6) Dorsey gets a call asking about Hyde's availability.

7) Dorsey tries to trade him for a WR, is turned down but offered a 5th rounder.

8) Dorsey sees the opportunity to get some value for a serviceable but not necessarily game breaking back and takes the deal.

End of story, IMHO. I don't see any drama here.

[quoteEnd of story, IMHO. I don't see any drama here.][/quote]



There shouldn't be. But, this is a Browns site, and anytime we trade anybody, we are seen as fools. I have to laugh at those saying we are tanking the season because we traded Hyde. It is hilarious. We still have two pretty good backs, and have brought up one from the practice squad who has been with the team since last year.

I like Hyde, but not having him is not going to change the direction of the team.

Removing the losingest coach in the history of the team and probably the league wasn't an option? (or at least overulling him, if he's the one)
I don't know what I'm talking about!
Pretty sure the Browns can't see the forrest for the trees though.

Why do you have to bait me like that!

YA! I super duper really "hope" so, but there's no reason dwelling on something that ain't happened.

Priceless.