|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
Crap. I just wrote a well thought out response and lost the connection. It would not load preview. Then got lost. Damn it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Please don't purposely misinterpret my point. Of course it is fair game. However, ...........
Wait, never mind. Bash away. Nah, I've bashed the guy enough for one week. My first (edit: second) post in this thread was more about very overriding ideas about coaching and maybe getting people to think of all the ways a head coach can influence a team. You'll know it when I'm bashing the guy. I might even tag you so you can get in on the fun. #HiVers
Last edited by Haus; 10/24/18 07:56 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Your a way way smarter guy than I am Haus ... its not even close .... your very intelligent ... and i mean that ... its clear your a pretty bright dude ...  U ever heard of respect Haus? ... a few of us including the poster who started the thread made a request ... u can’t honor that request out of respect? ... There’s at least 3 or 4 other threads in this forum and another 3 or 4 threads in the game day forum that are all hue all the time ... U guys have plenty of other threads to talk about Hue in ... can’t u out of respect for your fellow posters keep it out of this ONE thread? ... Is that seriously asking to much? ... We get how Hue fits in here ... but we would like to have a “safe haven” from Hue ... u been in the cess pool ... i’m Sure u can understand that ....  ... Thats the last time i’m begging in this thread ... LETS TALK FOOTBALL ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Crap. I just wrote a well thought out response and lost the connection. It would not load preview. Then got lost. Damn it. Dang, hate when that happens. Usually I'll copy any long post I make before previewing or submitting for just that reason. Sometimes you can salvage it through by either following through or pulling up a new tab through history - recently closed. If those don't work then try the back button.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
I re-watched the game today ... man ... another heartbreaker ... were so darn close ... its really frustrating ..
One of the big differences in the O between first and second half was we didn’t commit as many penalties on O .. but man .. we just killed ourselves with them ... it was literally the biggest difference in the game ... we committed way to many and they were at the worst of times making it even worse ...
There was one drive ... we started at the 20 ... got out to the 45 or so .... 1st and 10 from our 45 ... Chubb runs for 15 to there 40 ... holding ... next play we throw a screen to Duke who gets for about 18 yards ... block in the back ...
So instead of having first and 10 from there 40 were faced with 1st and 25 from our own 30 ... we gained 15 and 18 yards on back to back plays and ended up 15 yards back from where we started ...
On D we helped them with the penalties in the 1st half but then just committed penalties on 3rd down after 3rd down when we made stops ... on one of there two td drives we committed penalties on two plays that would have led to punts to give them 1st downs ..
OH VAY ....
Were too young for that ...
Penalties just really handcuffed our O ... thats a pretty big problem ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Your a way way smarter guy than I am Haus ... its not even close .... your very intelligent ... and i mean that ... its clear your a pretty bright dude ... U ever heard of respect Haus? ... a few of us including the poster who started the thread made a request ... u can’t honor that request out of respect? ... There’s at least 3 or 4 other threads in this forum and another 3 or 4 threads in the game day forum that are all hue all the time ... U guys have plenty of other threads to talk about Hue in ... can’t u out of respect for your fellow posters keep it out of this ONE thread? ... Is that seriously asking to much? ... We get how Hue fits in here ... but we would like to have a “safe haven” from Hue ... u been in the cess pool ... i’m Sure u can understand that .... ... Thats the last time i’m begging in this thread ... LETS TALK FOOTBALL ... Appreciate the compliments. For what it's worth, I did try to tread delicately on the Hue subject here. I know there are already two active threads about him and people are getting tired of hearing about him. At the same time, I thought my posts have been pretty reasonable at least in this thread-- talking about the ones how we are a young team and should expect improvement as players gain experience and play with each other more, and then the other one having to do with general ideas of coaching and not really directly about Hue. I do highly respect your views and opinions, and the OP too for that matter, so I'll stop harping about coaching until at least Sunday (hopefully much longer than that.) I look forward to more football talk for the next four days and will try to add in when I can.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Top-rated NFL rookies through week 7: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-rookie-rankings-through-week-71. BAKER MAYFIELD, QB, CLEVELAND BROWNS
PFF Overall Grade: 83.7
The number one overall pick rebounded in Week 7, posting a good 72.1 overall game grade against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers after posting his lowest game grade to date (61.6) in Week 6. Baker has now earned a grade of at least 70.0 in four of the five games he’s played in this season, surpassing the 80.0 mark in three of those games. For the season, Baker ranks ninth among quarterbacks in terms of overall grade and his 80.0 passing grade ranks 11th. Baker ranks fourth among all quarterbacks with a 7.7 big time throw percentage, and he’s been one of the best deep ball passers in the league, earning a 95.5 passing grade so far on throws that have traveled at least 20 yards in the air, trailing only Patrick Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers and Jared Goff.
2. 2. DERWIN JAMES, S, LOS ANGELES CHARGERS
PFF Overall Grade: 82.8
3. 3. LEIGHTON VANDER ESCH, LB, DALLAS COWBOYS
PFF Overall Grade: 84.1
4. DA’SHAWN HAND, DI, DETROIT LIONS
PFF Overall Grade: 89.6
5. 5. DENZEL WARD, CB, CLEVELAND BROWNS
PFF Overall Grade: 80.8
Out of the 121 cornerbacks who’ve played at least 100 defensive snaps this season, Ward ranks fifth in terms of overall grade, and he ranks third with an 85.4 coverage grade. Ward’s 13 combined forced incompletions and interceptions are the second-most by a corner this season and opposing quarterbacks have just a 61.3 passer rating when targeting him as the primary defender in coverage, the 14th lowest rating surrendered by a cornerback through seven weeks.
6. MIKE MCGLINCHEY, T, SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS
PFF Overall Grade: 78.4
7. SAQUON BARKLEY, HB, NEW YORK GIANTS
PFF Overall Grade: 79.3
8. MAURICE HURST, DI, OAKLAND RAIDERS
PFF Overall Grade: 82.4
9. CALVIN RIDLEY, WR, ATLANTA FALCONS
PFF Overall Grade: 72.5
0. KERRYON JOHNSON, HB, DETROIT LIONS
PFF Overall Grade: 79.8
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I think that Denzel Ward is the best player on our team. Better than Baker for sure. Better than even Landry and Myles. The guy is a freaking stud. I do not agree w/his ranking.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
Actually I don't have a problem with your response. Because it was more about coaching than Hue directly.
I spent a long time responding and doubt I can recreate it all.
I will try again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
I think that Denzel Ward is the best player on our team. Better than Baker for sure. Better than even Landry and Myles. The guy is a freaking stud. I do not agree w/his ranking. Well, that site ranks Denzel Ward #5 (among all corners, not just rookies) and Baker Mayfield #9 (again among all QBs, not just rookies.) I think the difference in rookie rankings has a lot to do with position played. Mayfield has had some issues but a lot of people have underrated his play so far. He's been put in some tough positions as there's been a lot of pressure from the edges and receivers have dropped a lot of passes. Like I said before, we can (hopefully) expect improvement, as the game slows down for Mayfield and he becomes more comfortable in the pocket, and ditto for the rest of the offense as well. The future is bright though, having blue chip talent at some of the most important positions. I have to think left tackle is an exception and that will be addressed in the off-season, depending on if and how much Harrison grows into the role.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
Ok once again.
You brought up some excellent points about coaching.
Given what you stated do you believe that we as fans or the media in general are qualified to evaluate a head coach?
I will answer my own question. No.
We don't have access to the information. Everything we get comes from the media or what we "see" on game days. We don't get verifiable inside information on what really takes place.
In the end analysis organizations win championships.
When a head coach is hired. He has the resume or he would not be a candidate.
Every year only one team wins it all. Good head coaches get criticized endlessly. Tomlin is a good head coach. But without the organization behind him he doesn't win a Super Bowl.
Andy Reid is a very good coach but because he didn't win a Super Bowl in Philadelphia he got fired.
Organizations win because you have to put good people in place and give them the time to produce.
I have never said Hue is a good or bad coach. In my opinion nobody could win with the roster he had the first two years.
In my humble opinion the GM if given the authority by the owner is the key hire.
If you are not constantly building the roster you can not win. Personnel put the team in position.
Look around the NFL and see all rebuilds. If the right GM gets to hire his head coach; your chances increase.
"What Really Matters" is about the current status of the team. We have key pieces in place.
If Hue remains he will benefit because winning will come. If he gets fired it will still happen and the new guy will get the credit. It will probably take longer.
Hue was a viable candidate when he was hired. He hasn't changed.
If you do all the due diligence to hire a head coach he should at least be given a legitimate opportunity to prove he can or cannot do the job.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
Not as good as my first draft.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
Ya!
Joe Haden is healthy
Tyrod Taylor too
Carlos Hyde is healthy
Josh Gordon just made plays for New England, in his first year problem free since his double hundred yard game 12 td year.
The Plan in August of 2018, was Tyrod, sit Baker, Hyde was to be the factor back,
It's October, Hue is saying he'll get more involved in the offense after him getting help from others was supposed to, (well, was speculated to be part of the answer)
If you can tell me the plan today for the Browns will be the same as this December 2018, then you can sell ice cubes to eskimos.
There is a saying.
Don't prank down my back and tell me it's raining.
What really matters?
Just going to watch the team when I can, it's what we do.
Being a "fan"
My heart is logged in no matter my brain.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,697
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,697 |
I re-watched the game today ... man ... another heartbreaker ... were so darn close ... its really frustrating ..
One of the big differences in the O between first and second half was we didn’t commit as many penalties on O .. but man .. we just killed ourselves with them ... it was literally the biggest difference in the game ... we committed way to many and they were at the worst of times making it even worse ...
There was one drive ... we started at the 20 ... got out to the 45 or so .... 1st and 10 from our 45 ... Chubb runs for 15 to there 40 ... holding ... next play we throw a screen to Duke who gets for about 18 yards ... block in the back ...
So instead of having first and 10 from there 40 were faced with 1st and 25 from our own 30 ... we gained 15 and 18 yards on back to back plays and ended up 15 yards back from where we started ...
On D we helped them with the penalties in the 1st half but then just committed penalties on 3rd down after 3rd down when we made stops ... on one of there two td drives we committed penalties on two plays that would have led to punts to give them 1st downs ..
OH VAY ....
Were too young for that ...
Penalties just really handcuffed our O ... thats a pretty big problem ... Glad you brought the penalties up, it's been somewhat overlooked with all the Hue talk. You are right, we not only took a bunch of them, which is bad enough, but some were drive-altering penalties, in terms of the circumstances.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
One last point. We had Belichick.
But we did not have the owner or the organization behind him to put it all together.
If he was the head coach the last two years he would not have made a real significant difference. In my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Speaking of Belichick.
I was one of his staunchest defenders when he was here. I loved the guy because I saw a great coach.
However, the media and the fans hated him for two reasons. The first was that he didn't want to talk to the media. He was evasive. The second was that he rightfully benched Bernie.
People had a stuffed version of him hanging in the stands. He was so stupid. So dumb. So removed from his team. LOL
I kept arguing that he had assembled a great staff and was a master at paying attention to all the details.
The other guy I really liked was Shanny. Of course, most of the fans thought he sucked. I remember getting mocked because I brought up how great he utilized his route tree.
I think the majority of fans are dumb when it comes to football. That isn't an insult because knowing football is not a character trait. It's almost meaningless in every aspect of life if you are not a player or a coach.
The problem is when people who don't know the game champion an all out attack on getting men like Belichick, Shanny, and Hue fired. That is a character issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
Look you are entitled to write what you want.
However, I didn't start this thread to discuss Hue Jackson.
Please take your opinion and put them in your own thread to discuss how you feel about Hue.
Honestly I am sick and tired about hearing about it.
I started this thread basically to discuss the overall state of the roster and where the Browns are headed.
You and anyone else that wants to keep beating the drum about Jackson take it somewhere else.
The Thread is titled " what really matters". I think Rasta's opinion is at least as much one way to look at things, (whether wrong or right) as any other. And everybody knows, nobody is going to stop talking about Hue until there is somebody else to talk about in his place, That's how it's gone in the past, Nobody's talking Shurmur or Pettine today, and to be honest, I think there are more "quantity" reads in this entire DTers' saying saying: Hey don't talk about this, then there are actualy reads talking about this, and other people might be equally sick and tired, of reading of those and it serves no purpose to just "pile on", so maybe some have just been holding there tongues, because exponential negative doesn't help at all. but "What Really Matters"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 |
GC. The Browns defense got off the field 3 separate times late in the game vs TBay, 4th qtr or Ot, iirc,
3 separate times where the TBay offense faced 3rd and 5 or less.
The Browns offense,
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Ok once again.
You brought up some excellent points about coaching.
Given what you stated do you believe that we as fans or the media in general are qualified to evaluate a head coach?
I will answer my own question. No.
We don't have access to the information. Everything we get comes from the media or what we "see" on game days. We don't get verifiable inside information on what really takes place.
In the end analysis organizations win championships.
When a head coach is hired. He has the resume or he would not be a candidate.
Every year only one team wins it all. Good head coaches get criticized endlessly. Tomlin is a good head coach. But without the organization behind him he doesn't win a Super Bowl.
Andy Reid is a very good coach but because he didn't win a Super Bowl in Philadelphia he got fired.
Organizations win because you have to put good people in place and give them the time to produce.
I have never said Hue is a good or bad coach. In my opinion nobody could win with the roster he had the first two years.
In my humble opinion the GM if given the authority by the owner is the key hire.
If you are not constantly building the roster you can not win. Personnel put the team in position.
Look around the NFL and see all rebuilds. If the right GM gets to hire his head coach; your chances increase.
"What Really Matters" is about the current status of the team. We have key pieces in place.
If Hue remains he will benefit because winning will come. If he gets fired it will still happen and the new guy will get the credit. It will probably take longer.
Hue was a viable candidate when he was hired. He hasn't changed.
If you do all the due diligence to hire a head coach he should at least be given a legitimate opportunity to prove he can or cannot do the job.
I too had a long post written up in reply. However, I chose not to post it.. let's say it was not a very friendly analysis of Hue's first two years here and leave it at that. I'm going to try to be more positive and I look forward to a win against Pittsburgh. Time will tell who is right on this. I think most of us agree here that the Browns have a lot going for us right now. John Dorsey has been excellent, drafting or trading for players like Mayfield and Ward (neither being popular picks, but both looking like the right picks), Chubb, Avery, Landry, Randall, and others. In Dorsey we trust. And now, we have to trust him, and that includes his judgement of the coaching staff.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 |
One last point. We had Belichick.
But we did not have the owner or the organization behind him to put it all together.
If he was the head coach the last two years he would not have made a real significant difference. In my opinion.
But that's the point about Hue that you and Vers fail to acknowledge and give an answer. Because when BB was here in Cleveland we could see the signs on was going to make the guy great, we just couldn't provide him with the tools, and the way to greatness also needs some stepping stones, we were one of them for BB. But in the case of Hue, and I've been asking this for 2 years now, what makes Hue a great coach? IMHO, hee has always been average mediocre, never showed signs of being a football genius in any occasion, in any domain of the game. Romeo Crennel for example, we saw his brilliance has a DC in some games. Butch Davies, we saw him accomplish things without almost any tools, we could see his brilliance on game day. With Hue I see nothing, for sure not BB genius nor mentality, no brilliant game plans specially on Offense, that its his specialty, and come game day he is has bad has we have seen. So for the nth time, what do you see in Hue, that us haters fail to see? What makes you think Hue is special,what examples in 2 1/2 seasons do we have that can make us believe that Hue is a special coach, able to win a SB?
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/25/18 05:48 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 |
For all the Hue supporters out there,I can try to help and give you guys what I think are some cardinal sins, and would appreciate you you to provide evidence of the contrary.
1. The complete inability to spot and develop talent, to the point that apparently he is an Head Coach that has virtually no saying on the players who are on the roster.
2. General lack of character and inability be accountable on his actions: We have seen over and over, Hue blaming others for the results, not coming out in the defense of the team and the persons who were being attacked, etc
3. The complete lack of any capacity to think strategically, both on team development and identity building, but also on game plans, game management.
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/25/18 05:58 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
j/c:
The preceding posts are examples of what I meant that posters aren't satisfied to include Hue in the conversation, but they feel compelled to make Hue the entire topic and ignore everything else.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,248 |
It's a little bit like trying to keep a three year old seated in the shopping cart.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 |
j/c:
The preceding posts are examples of what I meant that posters aren't satisfied to include Hue in the conversation, but they feel compelled to make Hue the entire topic and ignore everything else. Because one of the thing that really matters i having a good Head Coach. Now I'm far from convinced,I'm actually sure Hue is not that coach, but apparently you are. I was asking for a clarification on what makes Hue the right guy for the job for you. Its a simple question.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,480
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,480 |
You will certainly get those on here that will be Negative, but I'm pretty upbeat about them..
Losing in OT is better than losing in regulation (but losing is still losing)
We have work to do but most of the bigger pieces are in place.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
You will certainly get those on here that will be Negative, but I'm pretty upbeat about them..
Losing in OT is better than losing in regulation (but losing is still losing)
We have work to do but most of the bigger pieces are in place.
meh Losing is still losing, I agree with that. I understand the implication of being competitive and all that, but the Bucs were the worst defensive team in the league and were down some of their better players due to injury. Our offense scored 0 points in the first half and the team committed 14 penalties.. and those are just the ones that were accepted. So when you say losing in OT is better than losing in regulation, that kind of falls on deaf ears. We never should have lost that game. The results should have never came down to what happened on a key 4th down play or a long field goal. We have to start putting some distance between us and the bad teams. Win those regularly, and have competitive back and forths with the better teams... I could certainly accept that in this stage of the team's development. Is that a reasonable idea-- to regularly beat bad teams, and be competitive against good teams? If I'm out of line with that, somebody please tell me. I won't take offense to it. It's the losses to the Raiders and Bucs that get me. Yeah I know they were close.. they shouldn't have been close. You're going to get bad calls and bad breaks, it's football, stuff happens. When it's a 3 point game, those might sink you. When it's a 3 score game, not so much.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
Fair enough.
The elephant in the room of "What Really Matters" is of course Mr. Jimmy.
All I can hope for there is that he is learning.
The Dorsey hire was huge.
But Haslam has had a rough go at being an owner.
Maybe his mistakes will be a benefit as we move forward.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
One last time. If you read what I wrote.
I never said Hue was good or bad. I said he was qualified to become the head coach.
And that his first two years were no proving ground.
All head coach hires need to have a legitimate opportunity to prove if they can or can not do the job.
His first two years here are not an opportunity.
I think it is fair to judge what happens this year from a critique stand point. However, unless there are obvious signs of incompetence he should get another year.
In addition if you have followed this thread and read what Haus wrote it is not easy to judge fairly from the information we have or lack thereof.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Vegas had our over/under at 4.5 wins in 2016 and 5.0 wins in 2017. He underperformed with what he had. Look at the expansion teams. 2002 Texans: 4-12 1999 Browns: 2-14 1995 Panthers: 7-9 1995 Jaguars: 4-12 1976 Seahawks: 2-12 1976 Buccaneers: 0-14 (still won 4 games out of their first 32) So you're telling me that every single expansion team in the last 40+ years could win at least 4 games out of their first 32, but we can't gather anything from Hue winning only 1 out of his first 32? How does that make any sense. Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Kevin Zeitler, Duke Johnson, Josh Gordon, Myles Garrett, two other first round picks, Larry Ogunjobi, Nate Orchard, Danny Shelton, Christian Kirksey, Joe Schobert, Jason McCourty... he couldn't win a single game with those, and many other legit NFL caliber players? Now I realize that's not a great team, but come on. This was not the worst team in NFL history. Fair enough.
The elephant in the room of "What Really Matters" is of course Mr. Jimmy.
All I can hope for there is that he is learning.
The Dorsey hire was huge.
But Haslam has had a rough go at being an owner.
Maybe his mistakes will be a benefit as we move forward. Agreed. It all starts at the top... a bit cliche perhaps, but there's a lot of truth to it. It's the owner that makes the biggest hires (GM/HC) and sets the direction for the franchise. The Pats last three head coaches have been Belichick, Carroll, and Parcells. Success leaves clues.. you can even see it with Kraft Foods. Hopefully the Haslams have figured things out.. whether they hired Dorsey by skill or luck.. either way, I believe the franchise has a bright future but there's still more work to be done.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 |
One last time. If you read what I wrote.
I never said Hue was good or bad. I said he was qualified to become the head coach.
And that his first two years were no proving ground.
All head coach hires need to have a legitimate opportunity to prove if they can or can not do the job.
His first two years here are not an opportunity.
I think it is fair to judge what happens this year from a critique stand point. However, unless there are obvious signs of incompetence he should get another year.
In addition if you have followed this thread and read what Haus wrote it is not easy to judge fairly from the information we have or lack thereof.
Why not say the same thing with Tyrod Taylor? He for sure is qualified has a QB,why even draft BM? You see that your argument makes no sense, right... Its not enough to say he is qualified,, we want a coach, just like a QB that is capable of winning a super bowl. Now, what makes you think Hue can win a Super Bowl? What makes him special? I have listed enough stuff to justify my position on him, but with you and Vers is always silence, when we ask you. Why do you like Hue? That should be simple enough...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
What does TT and BM have to do with this?
I can not have been more clear.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
The past seasons of other teams does not equal the conditions of the last two years here.
Could more games have been won?
Maybe. So winning 1,2,3,4 games proves anything? I don't believe so. So if we would have won some close games last year would that prove Hue was good or bad? I don't think so.
Let's not forget a basic premise.
Players play the game. Coaches coach. You can have a great game plan. You can be a great "motivator" and communicator.
Can a coach make a field goal? Can he catch a pass on the field of play? Make a tackle or miss a block? Does he play quarterback?
My point on Hue is clear. Give him a legitimate opportunity to find out.
We have shuffled coaches in and out of here. Has that worked?
History has proven. Some great coaches struggled early. Belichick included along with many others.
Patience of ownership has allowed some of those early struggles to turn into winning coaches.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 |
What does TT and BM have to do with this?
I can not have been more clear.
Why would you give Hue the right to prove himself and not TT, I think it was clear, and it clearly shows the problems on your argument. I also assume that the process is binary, when in fact is a process,so we can see it develop, and in Hue's case not only he failed to prove anything, but he has not progressed,nor showed why should we continue to give him a chance and expect different results.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 |
The past seasons of other teams does not equal the conditions of the last two years here.
Could more games have been won?
Maybe. So winning 1,2,3,4 games proves anything? I don't believe so. So if we would have won some close games last year would that prove Hue was good or bad? I don't think so.
Let's not forget a basic premise.
Players play the game. Coaches coach. You can have a great game plan. You can be a great "motivator" and communicator.
Can a coach make a field goal? Can he catch a pass on the field of play? Make a tackle or miss a block? Does he play quarterback?
My point on Hue is clear. Give him a legitimate opportunity to find out.
We have shuffled coaches in and out of here. Has that worked?
History has proven. Some great coaches struggled early. Belichick included along with many others.
Patience of ownership has allowed some of those early struggles to turn into winning coaches.
Bilichick showed early in his career the potential to be a genius, Hue never did. Coaches Coach, so if a team is badly coached like we have been, its a coach's problem. But they also manage the game, prepare, lead, decide who plays and who sits, design plays, etc... This is not a question of opportunities or chances, NFL is about results, and what is more Hue is a bad coach, we have more than enough evidence of that. So now the proof burden reverted, its Hue that has to show that he is good, which he never did, there is nothing extraordinary about him, nothing another coach can't do. The question still remains, what makes Hue special? We have replaced TT with a better QB, with more potential, so what is the problem with doing that with the Head Coach?
Last edited by rastanplan; 10/25/18 11:22 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Was watching the pats and they mentioned very possibly INCORRECTLY that they gave up a 3rd for Shelton...you stated 5th...which I think was so but it would be great if we have a 3rd...did the announcers make a mistake or you...hopefully you
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847 |
The past seasons of other teams does not equal the conditions of the last two years here.
Could more games have been won?
Maybe. So winning 1,2,3,4 games proves anything? I don't believe so. So if we would have won some close games last year would that prove Hue was good or bad? I don't think so.
Let's not forget a basic premise.
Players play the game. Coaches coach. You can have a great game plan. You can be a great "motivator" and communicator.
Can a coach make a field goal? Can he catch a pass on the field of play? Make a tackle or miss a block? Does he play quarterback?
My point on Hue is clear. Give him a legitimate opportunity to find out.
We have shuffled coaches in and out of here. Has that worked?
History has proven. Some great coaches struggled early. Belichick included along with many others.
Patience of ownership has allowed some of those early struggles to turn into winning coaches.
Bilichick showed early in his career the potential to be a genius, Hue never did. Coaches Coach, so if a team is badly coached like we have been, its a coach's problem. But they also manage the game, prepare, lead, decide who plays and who sits, design plays, etc... This is not a question of opportunities or chances, NFL is about results, and what is more Hue is a bad coach, we have more than enough evidence of that. So now the proof burden reverted, its Hue that has to show that he is good, which he never did, there is nothing extraordinary about him, nothing another coach can't do. The question still remains, what makes Hue special? We have replaced TT with a better QB, with more potential, so what is the problem with doing that with the Head Coach? to add, Bill's worst season he still won twice as many games Hue has since he's been here. I'd be curious to see how many coaches that have won 0 and 1 games in a whole season ever became HC's again. people talk about the parade of coaches we've fired....they've all been better than Hue..I agree..i see nothing special about Hue that makes me think he's going to be a good HC. He lacks two very important traits to be a successful leader, accountability and responsibility
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,170 |
I have stated very clearly what my take is on Hue.
Done.
If you guys want to continue have at it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,666
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 78,666 |
j/c
Another thread trashed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Bro, I think it is best to ignore those guys. I've tried debating w/them for the last year. They consistently ruin threads. I opened the Hue and it is a freaking latrine.
I think some of us should completely ignore that group of posters and just talk about football and refuse to be dragged into more dialogue w/them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974 |
J/C
Pure Football:
Discuss the Cleveland Browns and other related PURE NFL football topics here; Players, Coaches, FA options, etc,
Why is talking about Hue in the Football section a problem, or should not be talked about again? I keep hearing that we are not too, just curious...
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum What Really Matters
|
|
