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Actually even if we come out of this season without major injury I would invest in those positions anyway..keep upgrading..keep plugging in talent..
Bro that statement can be made of any position on the team.......that's your #1 goal is to keep getting better talent. However, that doesn't make them a need.............a need is a position that you are lacking in, and if those 2 come back healthy then those 2 positions aren't a need by it's very definition.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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At this point ... the GLARING needs to me will be ...
DL ... we have no clue how S. Smith will play and Tes is fossilizing while we speak ... and Roye and R. Smith are under review by teh national historical society ..
RB - we don't have one at this point ... Jamal IF he pans out will be a FA ... not having one is the reason why its above OL at this point ...
OL - RG/RT anyone????????????
then we can get to the "spicey" positions ..
FOOTBALL is still WON in the TRENCHES ... isn't it????
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Your probably right on this one.........I had it rated 4, but to be honest I should have put it ahead of WR.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I didn't say they were a heavy need..but those two players are ??? marks for the future so it can't be overlooked.
On my list I didn't lay out the biggest need in order ..but they need to be watched carefully.
For me DL is the biggest need..DE..and another NT..
What we all better hope is that the Brown win enough games to keep Dallas from getting a top 5 -10 pick..cuze we don't have a first round pick next season..
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The BIG DIFFERENCE between this assesment and EVERY ONE WE'VE EVER DONE SINCE OUR RETURN ... here's what we DO HAVE ... 1. a STUD on D ... in KWd ... and a potential one in Jones ... 2. A LT and a LG .... BY FAR THEBEST AT BOTH we've had since our return ... 3. a Pass Rush ... between Peek and KWd ... it should be our best yet .. Miller was a wrecking crew .. but he was a ONE MAN BAND .. 4. YOUNG TALENT at various positions .... 5. A QB .... i know i'll get flamed for this .. but it is MY opinion, not yours ..  .. thats like 4 - 5 more things than we've EVER HAD .... 
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That's what I love about being able to take BPA. Eventually you have serious talent and depth at every position.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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For me DL is the biggest need..DE..and another NT..
What we all better hope is that the Brown win enough games to keep Dallas from getting a top 5 -10 pick..cuze we don't have a first round pick next season..
This coming draft should be heavy with RBs & I wouldn't be surprised to see Phil go back into the 1st round to get one.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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All Pro
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WR Travis Wilson
The Browns were counting on Wilson to step up in his second season and strengthen a thin receiving corps. Instead, Wilson has been inconsistent and has dropped passes. He went from a possible spot in the starting lineup to being on the bubble of making the 53-man roster.
This sucks. This guy came in last year saying he would be one of the best receivers in the NFL. I was counting on him to make a contribution this year maybe even our #2. Looks like he was a wasted pick 
This sucks. I was furious with the pick when it happened cuz I thought for sure we'd be going O-line since we had addressed the front 7 in the first two picks.
We SHOULD have gone O-line cuz we wouldn't have been in such a clusterfudge at the position last year had we had someone young with potential ready to step in for Andruzzi or Coleman. That's not saying our line would have been good, but think of where we'd be at right now in terms of O-line depth by doing what we did this offseason with the line by having a 3rd rounder on the roster.
I was the opposite.... 
When the draft occurred, we didn't know if Edwards or Winslow would be able to play. The only ones we knew about were JJ, Dropcutt, and Cribbs. We needed some insurance in case Edwards and Winslow were unable to play..... I was glad we picked up a WR.... 
Why, oh why couldn't we have picked Marques Colston instead...??? 
all things considered, if travis is the only major bust, over the 2 yrs. I'll take that, i'm still happy with the savage drafts. i already have him on my cut list anyway. i've already written him off. Next...
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Something was just said that made me think..
I'm going to comparewhat this team does to the 02 team that went to the playoffs..that was supposedly Botch's best unit..
This team doesn't have near the experience but talent wise, I think they matchup fairly well..especially in the trenches..
I am not saying or implying they will go to the playoffs (I think 6 -7 wins are reasonable) but overall we appear better.
One note , I observed the team's body language overall and they want to hit this year..
Lat year they looked so unprepared and lifeless..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 08/24/07 03:32 PM.
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Bro I am of the opinion this is our last year the coaching staff gets a pass for sub .500 records for awhile (and no I'm not in the Pitt/Peen crowd). This team should be ready to fly next year............if a few things happen this year......
1. Joe and ES need to stay healthy to get some continuity. We have the chance to have a left side like KC used to, but they need to get used to one another.........an injury would set that back
2. Brady needs to play this season to get the growing pains out of the way. Remember Palmer's first year starting?? The Bungels (and Palmer) were horrible that 1st half, but when Carson "got it" they where hard to beat that 2nd half. If he would have been ready week 1 they might have made the playoffs (finished 8-8 as it was). I'm not one of those clamoring for Brady to start at "insert prefered week here", but I do want him to recieve significant time this year. Oh and I think that we have our QB too...lol......so they can fry me (sorry for the pun) as well.
3 No significant injuries to the nucleus you mentioned. Especially, the young kids on D. Our secondary is talented, but raw and they need to develop this year.........hard to do if they aren't on the field.
4. Another good offseason. Give me some good young DLineman, and perhaps Micheal Turner, and imo this team is ready for prime time..........provided the previous steps hold true.
5. Oh and the IDIOTS calling for RACs head don't get their wish. The last thing we need when we are this close to the finish line is a regime change imo.
The wait is almost over bro, if we can make it through this last year of development unscathed then imo next year is FINALLY the year..........here that Saint only 8 more times (at most) you'll have to lie to your kid...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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here that Saint only 8 more times (at most) you'll have to lie to your kid...
That's assuming we lose all 8 home games... ain't gonna happen. We go 5-3 at home this year.....
yebat' Putin
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That's why I said at most bro...hehehe
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The life was sucked out of the O-line day one of camp last year, the debacle that followed at center was enough to take the heart out of any unit. This year we actually have a line so I expect much will be improved by that alone. I also expect Jamal and BE to have some serious impact. If we can go 8-8 we can go 9-7, that may be enough to squeak us in. I think it all depends on those first five games to set the tone. If we can take two of them, we might surprise some folks as the team continues to gel and work out the kinks. As you alluded to, it starts in the trenches. Winning 7 of the final 11 isn't an impossible dream if we can run, stop the run and get into the endzone with some consistency, IMHO.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Winning 7 of the final 11 isn't an impossible dream if we can run, stop the run and get into the endzone with some consistency , IMHO.
The bolded part is the reason we aren't going 9-7 this year without a miracle. We still will have trouble stopping the run. Our DL is old as dirt, and we have LITTLE behind them for depth. It will be a problem all year, but especially in the final 11 games that you mentioned when injuries start to add up on every team.
It will also be hard to be good in the red zone when for (most likely) most of those final 11 your going to have a rookie QB, and there are going to be growing pains and mistakes.
Factor in on top of that the relative youth and inexperience of this team, and Attack is probably dead on..........be real happy if we win 7 games this year.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I only went to one training camp, but judging by what I saw there and the two games I think that the guys that stand out so far are;
Joe Thomas,
Antwan Peek
Leon Williams
Eric Wright
and I liked what I saw out of that guy Kris Griffin.
guys that have disappointed me,
Ryan Tucker (I am by no means bashing the guy just wish things were not at where they are at with him, I do hope it all comes along for him. He has always been a quiet, consistent contributor to the team)
Romeo Crennel and his qb derby. Since they are not going to pay Quinn all that money to hold a clipboard and I do recall the "need" they had to play Frye when Dilfer got hurt "to see what the kid can do" The whole thing turns me off. He should have named Frye the starter and let Anderson and Dorsey battle it out. They are all going to be backups sooner or later.
Travis Wilson . . . He looked terrible. Quincymorgan football all over again.
Steinbach. I know the injury is not his fault but I was disappointed to not see him get in there. Just have to wait and hope his injury doesn't affect his season.
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The wait is almost over bro, if we can make it through this last year of development unscathed then imo next year is FINALLY the year..........here that Saint only 8 more times (at most) you'll have to lie to your kid...lol.
Excuse me? Lie to the kid? First off.. I don't do any such thing.. second, he's more than capable of breaking down games and analyzing them. There's no need to go down that road.
SaintDawg™
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Excuse me? Lie to the kid? First off.. I don't do any such thing.. second, he's more than capable of breaking down games and analyzing them. There's no need to go down that road.
It's amazing to me how much these young kids do know and understand. My son was 3 when he was explaining what a safety was to people. At 6 Joe Paterno sent him a mini helmet that he autographed when one of his recruits Dad told him about how much knowledge Nicholas had about football.
He just turned 12 and is playing tackle for the first time. I tried to explain to him about swim moves and spin moves but he already knew all about them from watching the game.
#gmstrong
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j/c
I wouldn't put BQ in either category...although he looked like a winner against the scrubs.
I don't think the 2 turnovers by DA were his fault. He started going into his motion to throw and the ball was knocked out...blocker's fault.
The INT, well, he threw the ball and a guy slipped. His fault?
Harrison didn't fumble. It would be Frye that fumbled. Fault Harrison for having a lack of football knowledge.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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I have stated that Wilson, Sowells and Williams will help determine Savage's future as a GM. I viewed them as reaches (espically Sowells). So far Savage appears to be 1 for 3. (Williams).
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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From what I understand, Sowells is a beast physically. He needs more help technically.
#gmstrong
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Calm down bro.........it was a joke off of the other thread where you said you where sick of having to explain to your kid why we lost.........lighten up.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I wasn't mad or anything.. He reads the boards too. I was just setting the record straight. 
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I can't wait until my 2 are old enough to take to a game.........they are only 1 1/2, and I don't think it would be worth the trip to Cleveland just yet...lol I have taught them to say the two most important sentences they will ever utter...... 1. Go Browns 2. Steelers suck 
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Winners
LT Joe Thomas
It was a gift from Ryan Tucker that he cracked the starting lineup so soon. However, he seems to have risen to the challenge quickly. He'll have his bad days but is already better than Shaffer who, at right tackle, is no match for Tucker.
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RB Jamal Lewis
He is the undisputerd, best running back I've seen on this team since the return.
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CB Eric Wright
How in the hell does a player who has only played 10 college games start in the NFL as a rookie? I don't know either, but he seems to be the real deal and the real steal.
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RB Chris Barclay
This kid is hungry. He wants it. Harrison can't match that.
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LB Leon Williams
Another Savage pick, like Wright, who has had very limited playing time in college. He was dug out from under Miami's depth chart and, like Wright, into an NFL starting role. Andra Davis better bone up. Leon has a feel for the game that Davis has never had.
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Losers
QB Derek Anderson
I will admit that he can throw a pretty ball at times. He has a quick release. In the KC game I was highly impressed. But I think he has Kelly Holcomb syndrome. Butch Davis said of Holcomb, regarding the starting job, "The stage was too big for him". It takes a special player to handle the pressure of being a starter. I think the reason Frye is able to handle it is because he doesn't give a crap what anyone other than the coaches think. Dude's a football player. Anderson isn't.
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OT Ryan Tucker
I would hate to see Tucker gone over the steroid thing and don't believe he will be. In an interview with him that was posted on this board a short while back, he explained the reasoning behind his illegal use of steroids and I don't believe the team is going to hold that against him. I know I don't. It wasn't for performance enhancing. It was merely to get his testosterone level back to normal. But the NFL doesn't give any leeway in the matter, so he was busted.
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WR Travis Wilson
This may be a pick who takes several years to catch on. I'm sure Savage hoped for better. He was basically chosen to fill the void between Northcutt's departure and JJ's often injured status. I'm disappointed he hasn't stepped up yet. For the self-proclaimed "best wide receiver in the draft" he's certainly sandbagged it thus far.
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RB Jerome Harrison
See Barclay above. Harrison may be another who needs more time in the pro game. Meanwhile, Barclay's hungry and not looking back.
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QB Brady Quinn
Similar to Frye, it's debatable whether Quinn can be placed in either category at this juncture, because his role with the Browns is yet to be determined.
His role has been determined. What hasn't is the time-frame in which his role of future starting quarterback starts. This was a weird place to stick him; at the end of the 'losers" list.
#gmstrong
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Excuse me? Lie to the kid? First off.. I don't do any such thing.. second, he's more than capable of breaking down games and analyzing them. There's no need to go down that road.
It's amazing to me how much these young kids do know and understand. My son was 3 when he was explaining what a safety was to people. At 6 Joe Paterno sent him a mini helmet that he autographed when one of his recruits Dad told him about how much knowledge Nicholas had about football.
He just turned 12 and is playing tackle for the first time. I tried to explain to him about swim moves and spin moves but he already knew all about them from watching the game.
That's awesome. I wish I got started on football at that young of an age. My dad was a college baseball player so I got the baseball treatment at a young age, knew the rules at age 2.
Understood things with football by high school but I didn't really get serious about understanding more than just my own position until college.
I'm very impressed, nice young mind there.
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To be honest, I haven't seen much to say Barclay is out performing Harrison at the TAILBACK position.
Sure Barclay had his return and a screen pass against some scrubs; but Harrison has produced way more than that. I'm all for Harrison keeping his roster spot, and Barclay staying on for special teams and maybe seeing some time in the backfield.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I have stated that Wilson, Sowells and Williams will help determine Savage's future as a GM.
I believe you lay too much importance at the feet of a few late round picks.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Bad GM's miss on the top 2 rounds.
Good GM's make good selections in rounds 1 to 4.
Really good ones find players in 5 to 7, but in truth it is part luck.
I can't question Savage in 1 & 2. He has done well.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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We won't know how well Savage has done for a few years yet.
Though as of now, he seems to have HIT on his #1 and #2 each year, which is great news considering our #1 and #2 picks from years past.
This team is still suffering from HORRIBLE drafts in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003.
Thats 5 years of Awful drafting--though Faine was a pro bowler last year (I believe) the rest was garbage.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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I have stated that Wilson, Sowells and Williams will help determine Savage's future as a GM. I viewed them as reaches (espically Sowells). So far Savage appears to be 1 for 3. (Williams)
Late round picks are bread and butter type picks,, But the truth is, they are late round for a reason.. That's that they are risky at higher picks but worth the risk lower.. (not sure I explained my thinking well )
Any, these guys aren't going to make Savages reputation, but they will enhance it if they succeed.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Actually even if we come out of this season without major injury I would invest in those positions anyway..keep upgrading..keep plugging in talent..
In the event of an "injury free" season I'd have to say that TE would the last pos. that would need to be addresed.
It's obvious the RB and DE are pos. of need RIGHT NOW.,,,,after that we need to keep adding top talent to the LB pos.,,,,,this pos. NEEDS to be an area of elite athletes (taken from the mold of the steelers) in order for us to be contenders.
...after that,....WR,DB,and OL sould be the next areas of concern IMO.
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I don't think the 2 turnovers by DA were his fault. He started going into his motion to throw and the ball was knocked out...blocker's fault.
The INT, well, he threw the ball and a guy slipped. His fault?
I have a different perspective of DA's turnovers. IMO he set up to throw too close to his right side blocker - peripheral vision should have told him that but he was too locked on. The INT, our guy slipped and then he threw. Yes, his fault.
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Bad GM's miss on the top 2 rounds.
Good GM's make good selections in rounds 1 to 4.
Really good ones find players in 5 to 7, but in truth it is part luck.
I can't question Savage in 1 & 2. He has done well.
Syndric Steptoe 7th -'07 (Yet to be seen if he can make the team but shows talent)
Melila Purcell 6th - '07 (Probably too light this year but could develop)
Chase Pittman 7th - '07 (Same as Purcell, and is showing some skill)
Brandon McDonald 5th Rd - '07 (Should find a roster spot)
Babatunde Oshinowo 6th Rd - '06 (Still with the team, could end up on PS again)
Leon Williams 4th Rd - '06 (Everyone is clammoring for him to start over Davis, who may have to fight for his job when he returns)
Lawrence Vickers 6th Rd - '06 (Starting fullback)
Jerome Harrison 5th Rd - '06 (Probably #3 RB and has the potential to be a big contributor out of the backfield)
Justin Hamilton 7th Rd - '06 (Solid backup at safety)
David McMillan 5th Rd -'05 (Worked his way into the LB rotation)
Every GM will have his hits and misses but it seems to me, (with a few once promising execeptions,) Phil has done fairly well finding players to fill a need and contribute to the overall success of the team. He might've had a rougher time year one than year two, (due to the fact that he hadn't got his feet wet and had a lot on his plate at the time,) but we still have 5 late rounders from '06 hanging around. (Not to mention a few FAs over the years like Fraser, Hoffman, Holly & Cribbs to name a few.) That's pretty good, IMHO.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dispatch.. Camp winners and losers
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