I have a hypothetical. Suppose it was a guy like OBJ, Dez Bryant, Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick, or TO who had made similar comments like Baker's. Wonder what the reaction would be? Would we say anyone of those guys are just "being who he is? Would we applaud their competitive nature? Or would we call him a "distraction," a "troublemaker," a "selfish, me-type player," or a "locker room cancer?"
That's not exactly apples to apples. All of those players, except maybe Cam, are veterans who have already established themselves as "distractions, troublemakers, selfish me-type players" on their respective NFL teams. They also are not rookies who had issues with a terminated coach who went on a highly publicized excuse tour and joined a division rival with 2 games vs. them scheduled.
Even so, it would depend on the circumstance. If Shurmur crapped the bed as a coach and blamed OBJ or other people for his shortcomings on a publicity tour...I wouldn't have a problem with OBJ saying something about it
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
If Baker wasn't a punk then he would have crumbled a long time ago trying to QB our team. That giant boulder on his shoulder helps him succeed. He is the perfect fit for our city.
You need to be a punk to succeed? I don't think he's a punk, but you can have a chip on your shoulders without being a punk. The two things are not synonymous.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I have a hypothetical. Suppose it was a guy like OBJ, Dez Bryant, Cam Newton, Colin Kaepernick, or TO who had made similar comments like Baker's. Wonder what the reaction would be? Would we say anyone of those guys are just "being who he is? Would we applaud their competitive nature? Or would we call him a "distraction," a "troublemaker," a "selfish, me-type player," or a "locker room cancer?"
You are comparing players that have had a history of calling out existing team-mates and driving wedges into locker-rooms, with a guy who is calling out a former coach who ran to the media to blame everyone but himself, and then signed on with a rival. Baker is also a guy that has a history of teammates rallying around and adoring him.
But to answer the question, had Dez Bryant signed with the team in training camp, Hue got fired, did the same press-tour and it was Dez said those same comments, then yeah, I probably wouldn't of had too big of a problem with it either. Considering he likely would be echoing the sentiments of most the team and 99.9% of the fanbase. I think it's nice for once to have players that stick up for teammates, and feel as strongly for the team as the fans do.
I agree. Hue created a toxic environment because Hue was all about Hue. He goes on his song and dance tour to try to repair a rubbished image, which I really didn't have a problem with, he needed to do something headed off the worst coaching job in NFL history.
I am with Baker, I don't ever remember a head coach getting axed and then 10 days later signing with any team let alone a division rival. If someone does, educate me. I know guys have gone back in the next season, but not the same season. No?
I am proud our QB called the BS card on the guy. I would have as well. To quote my wife, " Hue Jackson is a weak man".
Again, this is just my opinion and I don't expect to change any views on the matter, nor am I really trying. This is a express your views thread.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I thought Baker's comments/tweets were a bit curt, but I don't mind hearing what he had to say. Honestly? There is something about it that I like. Just like the people who post here who sometimes like to mouth off at each other. It's not nice to do, but definitely helps makes things more interesting.
I'm thinking Baker was still miffed at Hue for not letting him compete to start the season. He kept his mouth shut for a long time about it and now that Hue's gone? He let some venom out. Should he show some tact before he speaks/acts/tweets? Sure, but this is not who he is. He's an alpha male who's not afraid to say what's on his mind.
The kids got attitude and a real passion for the game. All-in-all I'm quite happy he's our QB.
I won't go as far as to say Baker is a bad person. I will say that the entire fixation on Hue Jackson by anyone, fans, media or players seems weirdly unnecessary. At this point, Jackson is past tense in Cleveland. Browns Nation has spent at least 20 years constantly lamenting the past. That needs to be squashed as one relic of the culture of failure that the team appears to be throwing off with their new confidence and on-field success. Being "new" needs to include not clinging to old baggage. He was fired, from a professional sports coaching position. It's business. He has no obligation to the organization and no one in Cleveland should care this much about any of his career decisions. We're almost a month into the demise of Hue Jackson and it continues to be belabored. To me it's just bad form Browns Nation. Can't we be better than this?
Well, some might think that those guys [other than Cam] didn't have all the issues in college that Baker had. And some people might think that those guys were all branded as bad teammates, distractions, selfish, etc because they pulled similar acts to what Baker is doing now.
Of course, not all people think that way. But, rest assured, there are plenty of people who do. And many of those people don't really like the double standard.
And some people might think that those guys were all branded as bad teammates, distractions, selfish, etc because they pulled similar acts to what Baker is doing now.
Slamming an ex coach that joined the enemy? Hue works for the bungles, a division rival. Baker doesn't owe Hue a damn thing. What he is doing now doesn't come close to the theatrics of OBJ, Dez and Kaepernick. None of them had coaches backing up their actions.
Quote:
Of course, not all people think that way. But, rest assured, there are plenty of people who do. And many of those people don't really like the double standard.
Who, whiny ass ESPN personalities? I see a lot of support or at the least indifference in regards to Baker's actions towards Hue. The only one's acting appalled are media whores, and you lol.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I personally don't care baoutnhue joining the bengals... man has a right to work... but the excuse tour he took after being fired was awful and then joining the bengals looks petty...
I think Baker could have been a little more professional but really I have no issues with him speaking his mind
Baker has a right to speak his mind. You can disagree with him, talk down about him, or even hate him but you have to respect the way this kid carries himself. He seems to me like a no BS guy. That's a good thing.
Well, some might think that those guys [other than Cam] didn't have all the issues in college that Baker had. And some people might think that those guys were all branded as bad teammates, distractions, selfish, etc because they pulled similar acts to what Baker is doing now.
Of course, not all people think that way. But, rest assured, there are plenty of people who do. And many of those people don't really like the double standard.
I'm only going to reply to your opinion of Mayfield once. And I'm done.
Pre-Draft I was vehemently against this dude over Darnold. Had choice words for him.
Now? I LOVE THIS KAT!!!!!!!!
There's ALOT more going on here than we know of. Yesterday, listening to Kitchens and how steadfast he backed Mayfield, I got the distinct feeling he was getting irritated because he also knew what was going on inside the building. Hence why he backed up Mayfield.
Some say Mayfield's actions were generated from the Lack of a Chance to compete for the #1 spot in training camp.
Some say it was the Hard Knocks when he was named the #2 QB.
Some say it was the lack of snaps with the Ones.
Could be a combination of those, but I also believe that he was speaking for ALOT of the players about how pissed they were with Jackson's BS Media Tour.
Bake was ASKED the question in the post game presser and he ANSWERED it. He didn't side step it. And it grew legs this week. But Mayfield was speaking for his teammates too. He's the one who actually had the BALLS to say it.
And it sounds to me that he was RIGHT. Especially with Kitchens backing him up BIG TIME.
Mayfield has handled himself like a PRO. And that's very pleasing to ME after I had such disdain for the dude.
I WAS WRONG.
This guy has TAKEN this team under his wings and he has SOLIDIFIED himself as the UN-QUESTIONED LEADER of this team. And it shows in his play.
Last thing. I totally understand where YOU are coming from. Could this be that with your past Coaching experience, that YOU wouldn't want your Ex-Players saying things like this about YOU after you were fired? Just curious.
Dawgs, WE FINALLY HAVE A GOSH DAMN QB and it SHOWS on the field.
We finally got rid of the LAST STENCH OF LOSING.
Good times are coming.
Diam---We MUST order that Airbus A-380 NOW, my man!!!!!!!!!!!
Could be a combination of those, but I also believe that he was speaking for ALOT of the players about how pissed they were with Jackson's BS Media Tour.
Is it possible he was voicing the opinions of his teammates so that they didn't have to take the heat?
Most of the players like Hue. That hasn't changed.
Agree to disagree, I have seen nothing of the sort from ANY player on this team.
Liking Hue is fine... thinking Hue is the coach to lead you into the future and put you in a position to win championships is something completely different.
A lot of the players might love Hue, they might send him Christmas cards and go to his grandkids birthday parties.. I don't know.
The better question is, after what we've seen the last few weeks since he's been gone, I wonder how many of them would be eager to take him back as HC.... I would bet not very many.
Here is more from the article where Kitchens made that comment...
Freddie Kitchens has Baker Mayfield’s back Posted by Mike Florio on November 29, 2018, 4:14 PM EST
Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield has made plenty of waves this week with his candid comments about former Browns coach Hue Jackson. Current Browns offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens has no qualms about the various things Mayfield said.
“I promise you this, Baker’s not going to blow smoke up anybody’s ass,” Kitchens told reporters on Thursday, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “So, if he said it, that’s what he feels, and I’m standing behind Baker Mayfield. I don’t care about anybody that doesn’t work in this building and what they think about what he said, all right? That what I stand behind is him and these players in this locker room. . . .
“First of all, I don’t have a problem with Baker saying anything like [his remarks after the game]. The guy spoke what he felt to be true and I don’t know when it became big news to speak the truth. If that’s what he feels, then he should voice it. I mean, Hard Knocks is in here, everybody’s looking for a story. Well, he’s giving you a story. He’s telling you the truth. Everybody’s wanting an inside look at the truth, well hell, that’s the truth.”
Beyond supporting Mayfield’s right to speak his mind, Kitchens also seems to vouch for the accuracy of Mayfield’s public criticisms of Hue Jackson, short on details as they may be. Which will surely further endear Kitchens to Mayfield, perhaps setting the stage for the Browns to stick with the status quo come 2019, making Gregg Williams the head coach and keeping Kitchens as the offensive coordinator.
But then there’s the reality that Kitchens will inevitably position himself for a head-coaching job based on his work with Mayfield, if Kitchens continues as the coordinator. So maybe, just maybe, the best way to carry the 2018 vibe into 2019 will be to make Kitchens not Williams the next head coach.
Last thing. I totally understand where YOU are coming from. Could this be that with your past Coaching experience, that YOU wouldn't want your Ex-Players saying things like this about YOU after you were fired? Just curious.
Hammer, meet nailhead. Actually, life has taught me when people defend bad behavior (Hue going on his talk show tour throwing everything Cleveland under the bus, and then gets called out for the bad behavior) it's because they have behaved badly in a very similar way. JMO
Because this thread is an attack on Baker's character.
I won't go as far as to say Baker is a bad person. I will say that the entire fixation on Hue Jackson by anyone, fans, media or players seems weirdly unnecessary. At this point, Jackson is past tense in Cleveland. Browns Nation has spent at least 20 years constantly lamenting the past. That needs to be squashed as one relic of the culture of failure that the team appears to be throwing off with their new confidence and on-field success. Being "new" needs to include not clinging to old baggage. He was fired, from a professional sports coaching position. It's business. He has no obligation to the organization and no one in Cleveland should care this much about any of his career decisions. We're almost a month into the demise of Hue Jackson and it continues to be belabored. To me it's just bad form Browns Nation. Can't we be better than this?
Sashi has been gone longer but many on here keep bringing him up in threads that really don't have anything to do with him. Not a Sashi apologist but that seems just as unnecessary to me.
I won't go as far as to say Baker is a bad person. I will say that the entire fixation on Hue Jackson by anyone, fans, media or players seems weirdly unnecessary. At this point, Jackson is past tense in Cleveland. Browns Nation has spent at least 20 years constantly lamenting the past. That needs to be squashed as one relic of the culture of failure that the team appears to be throwing off with their new confidence and on-field success. Being "new" needs to include not clinging to old baggage. He was fired, from a professional sports coaching position. It's business. He has no obligation to the organization and no one in Cleveland should care this much about any of his career decisions. We're almost a month into the demise of Hue Jackson and it continues to be belabored. To me it's just bad form Browns Nation. Can't we be better than this?
I've thought this way at times too-- this coming with the realization that I've been as harsh on Hue as probably anybody.
I've wanted to let it go, but some of the frustration ran deep. Then all the Hue stuff has gotten brought up over and over again-- on his post-firing media tour, rejoining the Bengals, the game against the Bengals with Hue being a talking point, Randall giving him the interception ball, Baker's comments/actions/social media activity, Freddie Kitchens and various players weighing in, etc.
It's actually pretty crazy how much it has been brought up, and I've weighed in quite a few times myself... more than I had planned to, that's for sure.
I was thinking the Hue discussion would die down after the Bengals game, though I'm not so sure anymore. We'll probably hear about it some for the rest of the season. Heck, brace yourself, because it might just become an all-time type thing.
You know the drill, my people! Tuesday means it’s time for another edition of Draft Class Heroes!
How did one defensive back from Florida change his stars from being a high-risk prospect to a potential top 60 pick? Which of the first six Senior Bowl invites top my board and what do they need to work on to elevate their stock that week? Why do people not understand Baker Mayfield’s stance on Hue Jackson? All that and more in the latest Draft Class Heroes!
Villains of the Week: The Baker Mayfield Haters Sometimes a topic of discussion burns in my heart so passionately that I’ve gotta switch up the typical order of the column to address it. Today, we begin with the villains.
I get it, Mayfield will probably always generate some vitriol from the traditional sports fan who believes the game was built on sportsmanship and butt slaps rather than dudes wanting to annihilate each other for fun. I understand that Mayfield’s chip-on-the-shoulder ways may not be for everyone, but it sure is for me.
Even if you can’t understand what has typically motivated Mayfield to play and act with such an edge, how can you not understand this? For years Hue Jackson held the Browns captive, ruling in a power-hungry, I’m-gonna-do-what-I-want manner that put the needs of the team last and himself first. You think refusing to play Duke Johnson all these years was the best thing for the team? You think keeping Nick Chubb behind Carlos Hyde was the best thing for the team? Tyrod Taylor starting over Mayfield? The list goes on and on and on.
I know why those things happened. Hue relished the power he had as head coach, something we saw on Hard Knocks time and time again. Any player who didn’t know their place sat. Everyone knows Johnson marches to the beat of his own drum. I bet that didn’t sit well with Hue. Rookies like Mayfield and Chubb needed to understand it was Hue’s way or the highway, and Hue’s way was to play veterans he liked over better players. Because that was what he wanted, and as he often reminded us, “I’m the head coach of the football team”.
But because he was a nice guy and very political about it, nobody called him on his BS. That ended with Mayfield. In an instant Baker saw right through his charade, and I bet John Dorsey did too, thought he operated at the whims of Jimmy Haslam and was more diplomatic in his approach.
Excuse Mayfield if he doesn’t adhere to the common quarterback approach here, but that’s exactly why the Browns drafted him. Hue was a fraud in Cleveland, consistently threw everyone under the bus and made excuses for the way things happened, then got fired and immediately did it AGAIN in multiple interviews. That was completely unnecessary, but Hue only cares about one person in this business: himself. Politically, he realized he had to take the reins and do anything he could to shift the blame off of his failures.
And guess what? That is completely Jackson’s right, just like it is his right to take a job with division rival Cincinnati after going scorched earth on his former team. And the old Browns probably wouldn’t have cared, no doubt whispering behind closed doors about how maybe Hue was the lucky one for getting out of here.
That ain’t happening anymore, not on Mayfield’s watch. Pissed off and motivated, the Browns smacked Cincinnati in the mouth during the first half on Sunday like the Browns haven’t smacked anyone in recent memory, maybe in my lifetime. After the game Mayfield’s position was clear: you’re one of us, bought in completely for what is best for the team, or you’re the enemy. Period.
THAT mentality has been missing from Cleveland for soooooo long. Losing, failure, firings, media bashings, former player and coach bashings, other players on other teams using them as a punch line…it’s gone on for years, and we just accept it because it’s the Browns. They’re a joke.
Sorry if Mayfield doesn’t share your sentiment. He’s not just there to play quarterback at a high level, although he’s doing that too now that Hue’s shackles are loosed from his offense. Mayfield is there to take ownership of the team, period. When they win, he’ll give credit to everyone else. When they lose, he’ll shoulder that blame completely. That’s all he did at Oklahoma, even though he was the solution and rarely the problem.
Mayfield is the anti-Hue. There is no charade with him, nothing fake, he says exactly what is on his mind, he gets pissed about slights that most of us would get pissed about too, he does something about those slights and then he tells you exactly why he did it. He’s about the team and the culture in Cleveland, and he doesn’t care if it makes Hue, or you, or me, or the media uncomfortable or offended. Where Jackson was obsessed with outside perception of himself, Mayfield couldn’t give a rat’s behind as long as the team is taken care of first.
Mayfield has captured the Browns locker room in half-a-season, something Jackson couldn’t do in almost three years. So excuse him if he’s pissed off that someone wanted to piss all over his franchise and call it rain. Excuse him if he won’t take it laying down like the last 55 quarterbacks that have suited up for Cleveland would have. Excuse him if he’s gonna demand excellence from his teammates on the field and pride in the Cleveland Browns organization off of it.
Mayfield is NOT every other quarterback or every other player. Don’t ask him to be. This is what will make him great.
This article sums up my feeling on the situation. I didn't want a new head coach because I didn't want the turmoil and rebuild. But admittedly the team is better now with far, far less disfunction. So that is that. At the same time, I never did like Hue throwing people under the bus, but that's who he is, and if you didn't know that you weren't paying attention.
I don't think Baker gives two squats that Hue went to Cincy per se, because that's his right. But he is a division opponent now and should and will be treated as such. I believe Baker's vitriol is compounded by the fact that Hue is all about Hue, and Baker doesn't like that Hue throws players and coaches under the bus, then runs up with a smile and a handshake, brazenly glad-handing so no one calls him on his BS.
I think Baker's comment on Hue being fake is Baker being genuine, and calling Hue out for being a back stabbing, glad-handing, self-serving BS artist. Woody and Stephen A. are crap-stirring muckrakers who completely miss the point. Baker's comments and actions have nothing to do with Baker thinking Hue shouldn't have taken the job in Cincy, and everything to do with Hue being a two-face ass coverer.
JMHO
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski
"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield
Ugh... I just finished reading thru this thread. Mayfield the person? Seriously? The whole premise of this thread is just embarrassing. Lock it up! or is it down? Lock it down! Lock it!
Hue said he had nothing to do with the offense yet it was Hue who stated early and often that Tyrod was the starting QB come heel or high water ( not an actual Hue quote). Did Haley share the vision of Tyrod as the starter or was Hue actually involved in the offense? If so then he kinda lied when he tried to absolve himself of responsibility for the Offense.
How is it that Jimmy went into the day wanting to fire Haley but Dorsey talked him into letting Hue go as well? That would tell me that Hue may have been in Jimmy's ear for awhile regarding Haley, the offense etc. Maybe the locker room knew about some behind the scenes maneuvering that hurt the team and served only Hue's best interest. Couple that with the PC tour after he was fired and I could understand why some players and apparently coaches thought he was fake.
When there is tape of behavior it is open to interpretation.
Be that Ray Rice, Hunt, or Blount. You see their actions and can draw your own conclusions.
There is a difference though between violence that impacts others and individual actions that do not.
Before the draft many were trying to interpret the character of Josh Rosen. Which at the time I felt was very unfair. Because the information was second hand, unverified, and speculative.
Baker's behavior as seen from the responses is up to individual interpretation.
People can read it any way they choose.
Unless I have direct interaction with a person, or know of a person who I can trust has; I hold back on trying to define their personality or character.
If I saw tape of something that really disturbs me like Mixon sucker punching a girl and walking out like a coward. That is defining.
Baker's actions in college and with the Browns(off field)don't mean a thing to me. He is a young guy and youth is often accompanied with brashness. "This is me. Take it or leave it, in your face". Hell John Lennon had that in spades.
So I won't try and judge Baker as a person unless I sit across a table from him.
On the field. Damn I love the guy. He has brought a spark that has been sorely needed. He has embraced the challenge of being a Cleveland Brown. Called out for more fan support for the team. Has changed the Browns attitude about winning. He expects to win and wants it badly.
I applaud that. I want to win. I don't accept losing very well. If it rubs some the wrong way; so be it. Brees is kind of a Saint (no pun intended). But Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, Ben not sure that will get Christmas cards from all their acquaintances.
I like Mayfield's style-- tells you like it is, natural leader. Add in that he can sling the ball pretty well and it goes where it needs to be, and that's a good start for a quarterback.
The Browns have needed some attitude and confidence for a long time. We've seen that come out more and more this last month.
If I had to make an educated guess, it was that Hue was all in on Tyrod and Haley saw Baker in practice and thought it was stupid to keep him off the field. It all culminated in the Pittsbrugh game when Hue got Tyrod to start warming up to take over for Baker (Flip flopping QB's was a Hue specialty) and Haley freaked out.
They both got fired the next week. So yeah, Hue was lying saying he wasn't meddling.
If I had to make an educated guess, it was that Hue was all in on Tyrod and Haley saw Baker in practice and thought it was stupid to keep him off the field. It all culminated in the Pittsbrugh game when Hue got Tyrod to start warming up to take over for Baker (Flip flopping QB's was a Hue specialty) and Haley freaked out.
They both got fired the next week. So yeah, Hue was lying saying he wasn't meddling.
Didn't Baker get hit hard, and sent to the concussion tent for evaluation? (He did not have a concussion) That's not up to the team or coaches.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
If I had to make an educated guess, it was that Hue was all in on Tyrod and Haley saw Baker in practice and thought it was stupid to keep him off the field. It all culminated in the Pittsbrugh game when Hue got Tyrod to start warming up to take over for Baker (Flip flopping QB's was a Hue specialty) and Haley freaked out.
They both got fired the next week. So yeah, Hue was lying saying he wasn't meddling.
Didn't Baker get hit hard, and sent to the concussion tent for evaluation? (He did not have a concussion) That's not up to the team or coaches.
I can't find the youtube video right now but he DID NOT go to the tent.
The whole premise of this thread is ridiculous. Vers was screaming to anyone who listened "Oh, now that Hue is fired we better be lighting it up" and continuously tried to gloat after we lost to the Chiefs.
Now that we're playing good and everyone can see how inept Hue really was, he had to start a new controversy to deflect all the shade being thrown at him.
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