DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Freddie Kitchens to be named head coach of the Cleveland Browns

It looks like it’ll be tomorrow. The team hasn’t even announced the hiring yet.

I don’t get the changing schemes concern ... at least to a 3-4 guy ...

Why would Dorsey/Fred hire a DC that’s going to Diminish Myles Garret’s pass rushing skills ... that doesnt make sense to me ...

We have TALENT ON D for a change ... i trust Dorsey will make sure we bring in a guy that utilizes his talent .... and with what Fred did with the O and tailoring it to what the talent on it dictated it leads me to believe he also understand the concept of coaching to your talent as opposed to cramming a certain philosophy down the players throats ...

With the cover two ... is one safety all it would take to switch to that? ... thats all u mentioned about that one ... not a fan of the cover two ... but if all it takes is aquiring one safety I don’t see why thats a major problem ... i’m not familiar enough with the x’s and o’s Of the cover two ..

If the other guys fit the cover two and all we need is one safety ... whats the big issue? ...

I just dont see us making a hire that isn’t going to utilize the talent we have on this D ... i guess i understand your concern but i’m not worried at all as Dorsey is GOOD ... REAL REAL REAL GOOD ...

I just wanted to comment on your earlier views about there not being that much of a gap in talent among coaches in terms of X's and O's. Expound on it really. And maybe you'll disagree with my comments, I'm not sure. But as you stated, the X's and O's really don't change much from coach to coach except with the scheme.

But when it comes to being a HC there's so much more to it than that. You have to instill discipline. You have to inspire your players to get the best out of them. You have to get them to buy into your system. I believe leadership can be learned, but not taught. There's a certain something in some people that make them leaders. How does the old saying go? "Leaders are born, not made."

So to me, what separates great coaches goes far beyond the X's and O's. We're going to find out if Freddie has that special ingredient or not.

If I may piggyback off that Pit, leadership skills don't always scale up either. In military terms, a Lieutenant might excel at leading a platoon, but if promoted to Captain, might not do as well leading a company. I'm not saying anything about Kitchen's abilities, I don't know them. But leadership requires different skill sets at different levels.

j/c:

A few comments to different posters.

-Niolen, I agree w/you and have addressed those things in the past. I still think that we have drafted and acquired players to fit a certain scheme and I would not prefer that we drastically change it. I'm not stomping my feet about it. It's just something to talk about.

Homes, YTown, and Deep: I don't think anyone is saying that Freddie doesn't have the right to choose his own coaches. Not sure I get where that came from?

Diam: There are variations of Cover 2 and we played it at times w/Williams. We would also play Cover 4 out of a Cover 2 look. A true Tampa 2 defense would expose Peppers and Kindred is even worse than he is in deep coverage. Besides, would you rather we have another character assassination conversation again? LOL

Pit: I agree w/you, but I wasn't really talking about the head coaches. Those comments that I made did not exclude the HC, but were more about the assistants.

That was a dialect of the english language i don’t really understand ... *LOL* ...

I think u just said that Peppers and Kindred would be exposed in any of the Cover 2 - 4 d’s ...

Is that what u just said? ...

The character assasination comment went right over my head .... didnt sleep well last night ... elevator seems to be even slower than usual getting to the top floor so far today ... *L* ...

I certainly agree. I made a post in one of the coaching threads about Freddie becoming the HC. It mirrored somewhat your comments. I loved the idea of Freddie being HC "in theory". The question was how would he handle running the entire show? That's a big leap in responsibility. Some men are just made to do that and some simply aren't.

The conclusion I reached was that Dorsey had been around this league for a very long time. He had been around some very successful HC's. As such I felt that during the interview process he would be able to determine candidates that were able to do those things that made a successful HC that go beyond simply the X's and O's.

What I wasn't sure of is if Dorsey would have the final say. IMO it could have gone either way. It just made sense to me that after the success he had in revamping the roster and bringing in answers at all of the skill positions to make this team competitive in a single off season, that Haslam should have enough confidence in Dorsey to give him the leeway to make the coaching decision. But I don't believe anyone could be certain until the process played itself out.

As it turned out, from all appearances Dorsey had complete control of the process which I'm very happy about. There is nothing that leads me to believe that Dorsey isn't fully aware of the ingredients it takes to make a great HC. He has done everything a GM can do to earn my trust and confidence. I know some will point out that he's never been in charges of a HC search and hiring and that's certainly true.

But Dorsey has worked with and is familiar with what it takes to be a good HC. As such, I will back Freddie and Dorsey's decision to make Freddie the HC unless and until such time comes to feel otherwise.

Ah, I see. While it applies to a lesser degree, elevating someone from a positions coach to OC or DC has the same risk factors.

I explained the Coverages in a recent post. I know you read it, so you can refer to that. I don't want to hijack the thread and make it about coverages. I'll just say this and we can move on.

My point is that Peppers and Kindred are both much better when they are closer to the LOS. Heck, Peppers played LBer at TUN. Neither one is good in deep coverage. They are slow to read the routes and Peppers takes really bad angles to the ball in the open field. They are much better in the box.

I just called tix office and they have no knowledge of when intro presser will be. Reply was that the team has not made any announcement as to hirings or when head coach presser introduction will be,keep watching Cleveland Browns.com for anouncements. This is as of a:35 pm I/10/19.

1, I like the idea of Peppers as a Lb/S hybrid. When he was coming out in the draft I felt that Lb would be his best NFL position. Nothing has changed my mind thesse past 2 years.

2, Question about the Tampa 2. You imply that it is a bend but don't break defense. Now I could easily be wrong with these next few statement, so correct me if I am wrong on any of them. I am under the impression that the Colts are currently running a Tampa 2. Watching them, their defense looks pretty aggressive. It certainly doesn't seem like a bend but don't break philosophy. When was Tampa running the Tampa 2? Wasn't that when they had Warren Sapp? My recollection is that they were a pretty aggressive defense.

Last question. Even if I am wrong with those above comments, Can you not run a Tampa 2 and still have an aggressive attack D style?

Peppers basically was a hybrid linebacker last year. He was in the box when we only had two linebackers a ton. I’d expect to see him continue in that role.

This might help: https://www.bucsnation.com/2010/5/12/1466315/tampa-2-defense-explained

Thanks

Did it make sense? Any questions? I'm not an expert on that particular D, but I know the basics.

I have a question for you. Did anything look familiar to you?

Only had a chance to glance over. Not enough time to look at in-depth yet. Hosting poker night and trying to get my house ready. Much of it looks familiar.

My question was, can the Tampa 2 not also be an attack defense. It sounds like by definitions no. My take is that the Cover 2 could be an attack defense but because the Tampa 2 drops the MLB so much deeper, leaving the underneath pass open, by definition the Tampa 2 cannot.

Yeah, I think it is a more passive defense and you are right that they drop the Mike to take away the intermediate middle which is often exploited in regular Cover 2 defenses. It can be burned w/routes in the seams and it's not very good against the run in my opinion.

FYI: This pertains to the one question I asked you, but Gregg Williams ran the Tampa 2 at times. Especially last year and when he was w/the Rams.

Your assumption is right, but you can be aggressive out of anything. For instance, you could have Sam and Mike or Will and Mike Switch roles and blitz Sam or Will or even Mike and drop a d-lineman back to Sam or Will's 1/4. Aggression usually means you are exposed somewhere and a good DC tries to hide where that exposure is. I wouldn't base an entire defense on being aggressive out of a Tampa 2, but you can fit aggression in the scheme.

GW, ran a Tampa 2 on the first Defensive play of his first pre-season game with us. I about fell out of my chair. One, I didn't know he even ran it and two, I didn't think our MLB's were cut out for it at the time. I found out later that I was wrong on both counts.

Not really. Generally a Cover-2 defense is 4 corners and/or linebackers across the field covering the short zone and 2 safeties cover deep halves. You then have one left-over linebacker/cornerback (from any of the CB/LB spots) which is left to do whatever you want, be it blitz the QB, play man on a certain player, spy the QB, or play a 5 man zone (rather than 4) across the front.

Tampa-2 is a much-more specific type of Cover-2, where the MLB drops back into a deep zone and takes away the middle seam that is often exploited by offenses when they recognize Cover-2. By definition, it's a lot less aggressive, because you're taking that leftover position in a Cover-2 and turning it into an extra safety. If you want to be aggressive in standard Cover-2, generally the left-over would blitz or take away a hot-route. In Tampa-2, you could technically blitz one of your other linebackers, but then you're running a 3-3 zone which leaves you really thin on the short passing routes.

I was just reading another article on Freddie, and his wife's name is Ginger.

Yeah, that's right ..... they're Fred and Ginger.

He’s also largely the reason we were able to draft Baker....

I would say that falls on Sashi, and somewhat Hue

That's well said... I feel he does...But that was just a small sample that makes me feel that way..

The ingredient thing is killing me..I love how everyone is putting Kithens..Baker..Now ginger and some of the other post about coaches that imply the thinking...Silly it may be... But for once..it's fun..

I'm starting to wonder why its taking so long for the Browns to make the official announcement.

j/c, sort of


Peppers was used by GW in a two deep look, and had his last int from that look.

Just a reminder to those who say that he can't play in a Tampa 2.

But as a hybrid LB/SS is where he will be earning his paycheck.

Freddie is holding out for more money?

Isn't twitter considered official ?

Hard to imagine the Browns would lowball him after all the money they have paid out - and are still paying out - to former coaches. That doesn't strike me as Haslam's style. Maybe they want to have coordinators in place to announce them all at once ...

No it isn't, but the Browns certainly have had ample time to knock it down if it wasn't true.

I know I'm extremely excited to hear that PC...I agree Dave..when will it happen

This is correct. They want to have the staff in place.

I don't believe so...If you can watch this..here is Hues Introductory PC...NO coaches in place yet..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwiWp1yzEtU

Hue was also PD - Pre-Dorsey

Congratulations Freddie! He deserves it, my man Kitchens in action!

I don't see Peppers being here for long anyway. Dorsey didn't draft him and if things go the way I think they will, the D will be in for a complete overhaul. Peppers will be just one of the many to go. Larry Ogunjobi could be gone in a flash as well.

The Browns organization is their fans and their community.

True...good point

Now I see who taught Baker to be so good with his handoff's