I am cautiously optimistic about his hiring as head coach. I will take a wait and see attitude with Freddie, and I am encouraged that everybody in Berea has nothing but good things to say about him so far.
I also am taking a wait-and-see approach. I fear that this coaching staff's resumes will be easy to attack should the Browns not have the season that so many fans are thinking they will. I'm going to have my work out defending them if/when that time comes. I pray that I don't have to. Defending coaches that I am not 100% sold on isn't as fun as it used to be.
I loved the Presser and think he's just what we need at this point. He's already been blooded, so what you saw is what you get.
I guess for his 'Coming Out Party' they wanted him to look spiffy! lol! Suit coat didn't fit right, my Father was a tailor, so he unbuttoned it.
There actually was an article where they say he was asked to leave his Hoodie hanging by his door and put on a suit and tie. He snuck the cap in at the last minute.
I still am unsure about Freddie in the head seat, esp if he's calling plays too. Seems alot for a guy thats been a career position coach. But I do like the staff and Freddie is really easy to root for. Ive said before, Dorsey has earned the benefit of the doubt. I think the Haslams have officially made Dorsey the face of the FO..which is a good thing. Freddie reporting to Dorsey is a good thing
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Let's hope Freddy isn't as shallow and hateful as some of our posters and the local media.
Nope, sorry, you don't get to spew nonsense like this without getting called out on it.
A lot of Cleveland sports fans, and especially Browns fans, are passionate about their teams. You see it on this board a lot. Figure anybody who posts about their team on a dedicated team forum probably cares a lot.
Don't mistake that caring and passion, and frustration when things go wrong, as hatred. If you want to talk about having unrealistic expectations, fine, I can see that.
A couple of the more respected posters on the board are already talking about 12-4 next season; Kitchens himself is talking Super Bowls. Hey, I don't want to put limits on the team. I just know things don't always work out like that even for great teams.
But hatred? Come on man! Even at the height of the Hue frustration, I did not see hatred. I saw a lot of people who were fed up with the direction of the team they cared very much about. Hatred would be like attacking the man or his family, and (thankfully) there wasn't any of that.
I loved the Presser and think he's just what we need at this point. He's already been blooded, so what you saw is what you get.
I guess for his 'Coming Out Party' they wanted him to look spiffy! lol! Suit coat didn't fit right, my Father was a tailor, so he unbuttoned it.
There actually was an article where they say he was asked to leave his Hoodie hanging by his door and put on a suit and tie. He snuck the cap in at the last minute.
I only watched part of it but got the same impression. I'll try to watch the rest of it soon.
The suit (blazer?) not being a great fit, who cares. I know not keeping one button together is a faux pas, all the better.
I'm sure Peter John-Baptiste is book smart and all, and has a fancy degree from Stanford and comes highly regarded from the Giants.
However, nobody in Cleveland thinks less of Freddie Kitchens because he wore a Browns hat to his introductory presser. If anything, it just endears the guy to the fans even more.
I'm not the one who said that. Like I said, I've only watched part of the presser so far, so not sure I can really comment on that.
Quite frankly, the play on the field speaks for itself. The offense improved drastically in two weeks, with the same players, and that speaks volumes about Freddie Kitchens and the people who were here before him.
I still am unsure about Freddie in the head seat, esp if he's calling plays too.
This is my only real concern as well. End of game and crunch time situations are stressful and decisions need to be made fast and on time. If one guy is calling the plays... and responsible for calling timeouts, deciding on challenges, etc... seems like a lot for one guy, even a veteran guy, let alone a newcomer to HCing.
The game situation adviser that was mentioned in this (or one of these) threads is a good idea.
Honestly though, a lot of this stuff can be worked out in the off-season and tweaked further during the week if necessary.
For example, have charts worked out for two point conversions that take into account the score and time remaining. Whoever makes this decision should probably have this stuff memorized, but if they don't, they should have a literal chart available to them, made by the analytics people, when making the decision.
For 4th downs, add distance to go and field position.
At the end of the half, plan your strategy with the idea of getting the last score in before half, or at least avoid the opponent scoring last before half. This gets a little more complicated, but it's something a multi-billion dollar business should be able to work through.
Most head coaches just seem to go by gut feeling and intuition, which leads to some head-scratching decisions. That wouldn't be a good approach even in the best of worlds, but like you said.. add the stress and time crunch and it gets even worse.
Most head coaches just seem to go by gut feeling and intuition, which leads to some head-scratching decisions. That wouldn't be a good approach even in hte best of worlds, but like you said.. add the stress and time crunch and it gets even worse.
I've never been in the head of an NFL HC but it always seems to surprise me that in some situations they aren't more prepared and end up botching calls or wasting timeouts. It's like they aren't thinking one step ahead.
I compare it back to my baseball days and situational awareness.. before the pitch... if the ball is hit to me on the ground, I'm doing X, in the air Y. If it's hit to the right side this is my responsibility, etc.. we did that before EVERY hitter.
I don't know why NFL coaches don't have the same process.. 3rd and 8 at midfield in the 4th quarter, right after you send the play in.. Ok, if we get the first down in bounds, we are calling timeout, if we get at least 6 yards, we are going for it, if we don't we will punt, if we score we are going for 2..
It's like they send in the play, wait to see what happens and then try to react to it...
It's like Gregg Williams in our last game.. in the 4th quarter there is a potentially challengeable play and he calls time out instead of using the challenge... now he can't use his challenge or he could potentially lose a second timeout... how does he not know these things?
at least he didn't look like Adam Gase did yesterday haha
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
He didn't sound dumb to me. Actually, pretty articulate. It is his dialect that makes him sound good ole boyish, but dumb - hell no.
He's a breath of fresh air instead of just hearing coach speak.
Country dumb is not dumb. It's when a guy acts like he is dumber than he really is... acts like a hick to be likeable and fool others into perceiving he is dumb.
He's not acting like a hick. That is what people from Alabama sound like.
I don't know where you are from, I'll say Ohio. You sound funny to people from Alabama. Get over it.
Kitchens sounds perfectly normal to me, and I'm from Ohio. Just not the same Ohio as you guys.
He's a good hire. It gives us some continuity in the locker room. He's been around to see what a really bad head coach looks like. And it sounds like he doesn't want to be a really bad head coach himself. So now all we have to do is worry about the draft. This all feels so weird to me.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
at least he didn't look like Adam Gase did yesterday haha
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I don't care how Freddie talks, but I want to add my two cents on a general stereotyping that is not correct.
I live in Columbia, SC. I was born in NY, grew up in Ohio and lived in California for a bit.
Very few people that I meet have southern accents anymore. The kids certainly do not. Times have changed and kids are growing up where they have easy access to the global media. The southern drawl is becoming a thing of the past in most southern communities, especially in urban areas.
It's probably because kids talk like their parents talk. The dialect is changing because the southern population has been booming not because southern folks decided to stage another baby boom but because millions of northerners have moved south, either for work or lifestyle.
If you notice, us northerners who moved south in time talk southern, we just don't sound southern. At least to born southerners. Head back north and we sound southern.
I am not a good example. My mother was from Alabama but I was born in Ohio so I talked southern from a early age, but never picked up her accent to any large degree, but I caan if I waant.
I agree, it took about 10 years of living here, but I now use "y'all", "might could", "sump'in" all the time now. But I do not, and will not pronounce it "Wurter", it is still "Wa-ter".
And I use "soda", it is no longer "pop" for me.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 01/15/1911:43 AM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
I still am unsure about Freddie in the head seat, esp if he's calling plays too.
This is my only real concern as well. End of game and crunch time situations are stressful and decisions need to be made fast and on time. If one guy is calling the plays... and responsible for calling timeouts, deciding on challenges, etc... seems like a lot for one guy, even a veteran guy, let alone a newcomer to HCing.
And yet Doug Petersen did so .. ad have guys like Sean McVay, Sean Payton, Frank Reich, Andy Reid, Jay Gruden, Matt Nagy, and Kyle Shanahan all called plays from day 1.
This isn't the old NFL, where teams had position coaches, coordinators, and that's it. I am sure that the offensive special assistants will help with decisions on replay challenges. I suspect that Freddie can handle calling timeouts. As far as play calling, Freddie's job will become much easier in this regard, because he will have a quality offensive coordinator, and it looks like a strong staff, working right alongside him.
Also, while Freddie does not always call the conventional plays for each situation, I am sure he has a guide for down/distance.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
None of these accents bespeak of intelligence to assume they do tells me about ignorance.
This isn't football related at all, but here goes anyway.....
Both of my parents grew up in the mountains of Kentucky. My dad wore it with pride because he grew up with a strong work ethic and was proud of where he came from. He was in the Army for four years and rose to the rank of Mstr. Sgnt. Dumb people simply don't do that.
However, people who think like OCD do caused a different reaction in my mom. She seemed ashamed of where she was from because of the stupid perceptions people like OCD have. She worked hard to overcome her accent because she knew people took it as some sign of stupidity. The prejudice of others impacted her greatly. That's why I have zero room for it.
It's not the people that talk with an accent that are stupid. It's the people that feel an accent is some sign of a lack of intelligence that are.
Freddie has proven his intelligence with the turnaround of the offense. He has shown us that not only can he control the O, but he can bring out the best of his players. He has proven his intelligence and still we have to hear some stupid BS about an accent.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Dorsey's "intro" seemed a little too rehearsed, seemed like he was trying too hard to edify Freddie, while still staying true to the "left no stone unturned" mantra.
Freddie stumbled at first. He also sounded rehearsed, and wasn't very comfortable reciting what he had prepared. When it came time to show his passion, it almost came blended with a bit of anger. Good anger. Angry at the long road since losing a Superbowl in 2007. Anger at people applauding 7-8-1. Anger at 20+ years of watching leaders and their weak approaches... eager to embrace his self-prescribed NO B.S. approach.
As a leader, he'll know what "sitting in the chair" means, and won't hesitate to stand up and pound on the desk when something's not going right. He won't worry about stepping on toes because he won't point fingers. He'll say "WE gotta get it done - NOW". Made no bones about expecting "effort, enthusiasm and toughness" from everyone in the organization, not just his players. "We, us, our... we all take ownership... Two is one and one is none".
I believe Jimmy and Johnny are willing to "go all in" on work ethic, passion and a no b.s. approach. I think Dorsey had influence on the rest of the coaching staff, and that made him very comfortable. Bottom line is - they're banking on the fact that Freddie's m.o. matches wits perfectly with one Baker Mayfield. And I think it's safe to believe Freddie is Baker's choice as well.
This search began in late October with an 8 game "show me" audition by Gregg and Freddie. They both performed admirably but moving forward was about mitigating risk and downside. Retaining GW meant being "married" to his son as DC and a coach who is not an offensive juggernaut... it also meant losing the possible upside with Freddie after one more season. Any choice besides these two meant an entire reconstruction on both sides of the ball. Two steps forward, on step back is hard enough. One step forward, two steps back could do a lot of damage to a young core that is still learning to win. The Browns rocgnition that the upside of Freddie Kitchen greatly outweighs any of the downside if it's not the perfect choice.
Freddie is the Browns version of Charlie Manuel. A little rough around the edges seated at a table with a microphone, maybe a little "simple" in the way he expresses himself. On the surface, many thought he was the last guy that could ever "get 'er done". He's won a World Series, led some very successful teams, and I watched grown men cry the day he was released from the Phillys.
one thing about Freddie, you can bet there will be noone getting time off during camp without a serious injury
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Freddie is a genuine guy and that is refreshing. All of what he said in the presser is true.
No doubt he was not on anybodies radar prior to becoming the OC. Dorsey and the Haslams deserve some credit.
Freddie had a long audition and he nailed it. He made the choice unavoidable.
So now the hard part begins. Freddie is a grinder. He is a one day at a time full timer. Get up and work.
In order for success to happen There are four key pillars.
1.) Ownership has to be supportive not intrusive. 2.) The General Manager has to be great at roster building and has to work hand in glove with the head coach. 3.) The head coach has to be a leader of men and and have the team believe in him. 4.) You have to be good at quarterback.
So, the Haslams have backed off. We have a great talent evaluator. We have a quarterback beginning what looks to be a great career.
And, we some know some things about Freddie. The rest is we still have to find out.
At this point we are in better condition as a franchise than at any point since 99. There is no doubt about that.
The game situation adviser that was mentioned in this (or one of these) threads is a good idea.
Honestly though, a lot of this stuff can be worked out in the off-season and tweaked further during the week if necessary.
For example, have charts worked out for two point conversions that take into account the score and time remaining. Whoever makes this decision should probably have this stuff memorized, but if they don't, they should have a literal chart available to them, made by the analytics people, when making the decision.
For 4th downs, add distance to go and field position.
At the end of the half, plan your strategy with the idea of getting the last score in before half, or at least avoid the opponent scoring last before half. This gets a little more complicated, but it's something a multi-billion dollar business should be able to work through.
Most head coaches just seem to go by gut feeling and intuition, which leads to some head-scratching decisions. That wouldn't be a good approach even in the best of worlds, but like you said.. add the stress and time crunch and it gets even worse.
I am sure Depodesta and staff have all of that worked out. Somebody up in he booth can bark that to Freddie at any time. Most challenges aren't simply the coach making a decision. Someone upstairs see a replay and says it's a good chance, it's 50/50, or it's dead.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Definitely had the feeling of This was Dorseys man .. Good for Jimmy..
Like Freddie said, none of use are finished products. Jimmy still looks pretty vibrant....$1800 suits can help, but still. Heck, Dorsey was wearing some fine threads. That suit wasn't a $400, Mens Wearhouse job.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I wasn't blown away by his presser, but maybe that's cause I'm a Browns fan and have been burned by these so many times.
How you sound in these doesn't really matter anyway, it just matters what's going on behind closed doors with your team. I am also not one of these neanderthal sports talk callers, who complains about how the coach sounds after a loss. As if lighting up his team in front of reporters is really worthwhile. Although I think we can all agree that Hue Jackson almost never taking the blame for losses is still pretty laughable.
I like Freddie a lot. He's an unbelievable play caller. He seems to have a very good working relationship with Baker Mayfield.
I just hope he can handle it, because being a good play caller, and being able to get to your QB does not necessarily mean you can handle a 53 man roster, and a full coaching staff. Just ask Hue Jackson.For all the ripping on him we did, he was a pretty good coordinator before taking the Browns job. He was the most sought after coach on the market in 2016.
I do feel like he won't try and throw his power over anyone though, as we saw first hand on Hard Knocks with Hue Jackson (which funny enough, that whole disagreement about guys practicing actually started from Freddie Kitchens expressing concern)
What makes me feel better is this staff the Browns are putting together. I believe they are getting the right people in place. This is a talented group, let's not get cute with these hires. Get people who can coach our teams up, who can prepare. I think that's why GW is not back, because I think at times this team, and mainly the defense, were not ready to play.
The one thing that I don't like in any Browns new coach press conference is this apologetic tone about ending the losing. Like I just don't need to hear it. Yes, we have sucked since '99, yes, you want to change that. Instead just talk about ideas and philosophies and save the promises for someone else.
Freddie comes off as a great guy though. Cleveland is going to love him. I also love that he is a former QB, as I am surprised we don't see more QB's in head coaching positions as those guys just kinda see the game differently than anyone else.
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