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Phil will be 44 in 4 days, as much as I like Phil I would rather get a young guy and develop him so that he's here a long time like Phil was.

The only way you bring back Phil, is to let him retire a Brown. He is done as a kicker.

I love Phil but totally agree wit this... we need to upgrade at kicker but Phil is not the answer...

I don't get why people are so eager to send Joseph packing?

He is a young guy who can develop, and he didn't have a bad year.

He missed a bunch of PATs. I think that’s why the perception around him is bad. I don’t think we should just sign any kicker. But if a veteran, very reliable kicker is available then we should inquire.

I don't think it was perception, I think it was fact, and I hope like hell they find a way to keep him here.

But skill does. The guy we have had a better year than Dawson did last year. Sentimentality has no room on a team trying to improve.

Skipping past the kicker competition It's hard to say what Dorsey may be looking for. In 2018 we traded for Jarvis Landry and Damarious Randall

The “main” 2018 Free Agents were:

Chris Hubbard- RT- Pittsburgh
Carlos Hyde- RB- San Francisco
Chris Smith- DE- Cincinnati
Mychal Kendricks- LB- Philadelphia
Greg Robinson- LT- off the trash heap
Darren Fells- TE- Detroit
Throwing the kitchen sink at the defensive backfield
and depth guys like Carl David et cetera

If 2019 remains similar, I would assume we would target young guys who have not had a chance to start on a regular basis for their teams and some other quality, but not so well known names.

Maybe in place of Chris Hubbard from Pittsburgh, this year we take Za'Darius Smith from Baltimore as the guy who hasn't quite had an opportunity to be a regular starter and clean up our LDE spot.

In place of Mychal Kendricks, I would love his running mate, Jordan Hicks from Philadelphia

In place of Chris Smith we can take Rodney Gunter, Defensive Tackle from Arizona as the quality depth guy that our coaches are familiar with.

As far as the random, mid-grade guys to bring up the competition and complete a core within the team (ie: Hyde and Fells), I would like Steven Nelson out of KC or Ronald Darby out of Philly to complete our cornerback rotation, and I would prefer to re-sign Breshad Perriman to keep our WR group up to snuff versus guys like Tyrell Williams out of LA.

Overall that would be:

Za'Darius Smith- DE- Baltimore
Jordan Hicks- LB- Philadelphia
Nelson or Darby- CB
Breshad Perriman- WR
Rodney Gunter- DT depth- Arizona

I'm assuming at some point there will be trades (oh, yes, there will be trades), but until that time comes I cannot imagine what Dorsey may be considering. I doubt Green Bay would take a 3rd for David Bakhtiari .

And then...the draft...

daman, I am amazed at how many fans on here disparage Robinson at lt and the rest of our oline. I am not certain what those guys could have done better to satisfy our fans. As well as they performed they deserve to play on next year.

daman, I am convinced that many fans who are critical of Robinson are suffering from a severe case of “he is not joe thomasitis”. Joe is not coming back but Greg r is solid.

The OL did play well. I think what people need to consider is you can actually help your OL. Calling plays that develop quickly so they're not asked to protect in the pass too long helps greatly. The ability to run the ball also helps.

Our interior is very strong which, when combined with the ability of Chubb and Freddie calling a lot of pass plays that developed quickly, prevented the OT's from having to protect for too long.

All of those things helped to succeed with the pass blocking.

I know we've been on this merry-go-round already... but as a relatively uninformed football fan, the whole "was it playcalling vs oline dominance?" argument is a 'chicken or the egg' type discussion. It's usually not one or the other.... instead you either have both or neither.


I think our oline got off to a slow/rocky start. They had 2/3 interior guys missing time due to playing out of position and offseason injury (Bitonio and Zietler, respectively). Hubbard struggled out of the gate and then seemed to settle in (that could have been due to playcalling, but that's the only one imo). Harrison did well for a time at LT, and then Robinson came in and locked it down.

I think our guys did really well, but their overall season stats might not look as good as they should due to the turmoil earlier in the season.

I don't know I want to go as far as call it a syndrome like "Joethomasitis" but that was kinda funny.

We all want the second coming of Joe, but I really don't think anyone thinks that Robinson is that, but if you think about it, there was only 1 Joe thomas in the league but there was lots of guys that did their jobs very very well at LT.

I'm not at all sure what folks that don't think Robinson is good enough are actually seeing in his play. I saw that after Hue and Haley were released and Williams and Kitchens took over, a whole new attitude. I saw plays called that I hadn't seen. I saw execution by the players.

I honestly believe that if we don't find a way to lock him up, someone else will and we don't have an answer for that.

I'd rather lock him up and keep him.

One thing is this, I'm confident in Dorsey and his team to put the right guys on this team and not waste a moment changing if they feel the need.

It actually works both ways. You can take a great OL and call slowly developing pass plays that will make that OL look much worse than the actual talent playing on that OL. The same can be said in the other direction.

Bottom line is this OL looks just fine with the scheme being ran. That's really all that matters. But to honestly think that the play calling doesn't impact pass protection I believe is naive. Just ask yourself one simple question.

Is it a higher probability of success to protect your QB for 2.5 seconds or 3.5 seconds?

I’m not that familiar with many of the guys you mentioned ut a nice well thought out post that was presented very clearly. Not sure you belong here but we’ll make an exception

Anyway , good post. Gives me a few guys to research

Absolutely no doubt about it, Pit.

It still BLOWS my mind how few hits and sacks Mayfield took after Kitchens took over.

And 2nd wasn't even close.

What was it, 9 QB Hits the last 8 games? Next closest was Luck at like 29.

That's INSANE. And we still had a solid running game also.

He was 25 of 29 PATs. Seems like at least 1 or 2 were blocked or tipped. I don't put those on the kicker.

I am not pimping the guy. I just don't think he played poorly. I think some people were soured by Gonzalez and are bunching some of his misses in with Joseph.

You may be right, lots more pressure on him because of Zany Gonzalez.

The knock on Joseph maybe nothing more than he doesn't have extraordinary range. In a perfect world I'd want a guy that was dependable from 60 yards out... is there now, or has there ever been someone like that?

Joseph was good enough.. I don't remember him costing us a game, but I do remember at least one where his kick sealed it. (could be wrong. May have to go watch the clip that Cal put up on another thread)

On another note, I hear Phil Dawson can be available LOL

and then we play Belichick who goes three TE Jumbo packages and runs it down our throats up the middle all day

In a perfect world, our kicker makes them from 75 on a regular basis. LOL

60 is a stretch. Everything has to be perfect, like the wind.

I don't know what sort of rage the guy has, but if you remember, and you were around then, people were complaining about Dawsons leg the first 4-5 years he was here.

If you work out, most males hit their strength prime around 32 or so. In these strong man competitions, the winners aren't guys in their early 20's, it usually guys in their mid 30's, even 40 or so.

Again, I am not taking a side in this other than to steal a quote from Freddie, he isn't a finished product.

Looking at the kicking stats, Joseph was pretty solid.

20-29 yards.....4-4

30-39 yards.....7-7

40-49 yards.....5-7

50 +.....1-2



So from 49 in he was 16-18. Nothing wrong with that. I know you aren't, but it seems like some people are expecting perfection.

The problem with those 50+ kicks is you don't know how many times we got in to that sweet spot. How many were 52 yards and how many were 58 yards. We also don't know the wind conditions. In those ranges the coach does have to consider field position.


My point is the guy will increase his range as he matures. Is he going to make 60 yard kicks most of the time, I doubt it, but then I don't expect a kicker to make those.

There are limits to how far a person can kick a ball.

What about CJ Mosley? The ravens are getting a new GM due to Ozzie retiring. We need help at LB and hes up for contract. Just throwing it out there.

I know he’s better than Kirksey, but how much better?

Well hes not the worst rated on missed tackles

Was Kirksey? Kirksey’s contract probably prohibits us from spending big on a linebacker.

In remarks made at the Senior Bowl Dorsey confirmed that talks are underway with the following Browns free agents:

Greg Robison
Rashard Higgins
Breshad Perriman

Source

Those would be the top 3 on my list and I consider that to be very good news.

I think these will be three very wise moves by Dorsey if he can lock these guys up. I don't think they will demand too much money and it still doesn't prohibit us taking a player early in the draft at their respective position. Greg Robinson as a backup to a young LT that ends up beating him out or the Wide Receiver depth further expanded upon isn't a bad thing. And if the LT doesn't beat out Robinson, then we still have decent depth at LT.

I don't see downside in any of these moves unless we pay way too much for them, which I don't see happening.

I noticed this from the article re: Ogbah...



Does anyone have access to the percentages of snaps where Ogbah played inside as a 3T as opposed to the 5T? I know "a lot" probably doesn't mean more snaps at 3T than 5T, but it piqued my curiousity.

LOL Yeah I know that 60 is rather unrealistic.. For sure. and Yeah, I remember the beatings Dawson took and never really deserved.. Might we have the next Dawson in Joseph? dunno really.

"20-29 yards.....4-4

30-39 yards.....7-7

40-49 yards.....5-7

50 +.....1-2 "

I honestly wasn't aware of that stat.. Thanks! In games, I never felt as if Joseph was "automatic" but I didn't fear him kicking either. Gonzalez I was scared to death of.

Freddies "not a finished product yet" theme is a great quote. And I've never thought about it in that fashion before.. And frankly, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced he's on to something.

Nobody is getting anointed the "second coming", not even himself..

All in all, if they find a guy they think is better than Joseph, I'm ok with it. I've seen enough of Dorsey and I trust his judgement. Just look at who he picked up in FA last year, Look at who he traded for, then look at who he drafted.. and look at who he got rid of (Coleman, Gordon) Yikes, the guy hit it out of the park. So if he says, Joe Blow is better than Joseph, I'm likely to just shut up and agree....

Just to add in here. Joseph was 25 of 29 from Extra Points.

I do think missed extra points and kicks lost us some games. He missed vs the Ravens at the end of the season i believe.



I'm not a big Greg Joseph fan. But, he was a rookie. Maybe he can improve. But i certainly wouldn't pass on a proven guy like Gostowski or Robbie Gould

That particular trend I hope we carry into next season.

I think Baker was like 18 TD's to 0 INT's in the Redzone now that is consistency ...

From the opponent 19-goal line ....... Baker completed 64.8% of his passes, with 20 TD and 0 INT.

Thank you brother

J/C
Without saying exactly who he might be targeting Dorsey reveals his overall free agency philosophy. It seems like a very sound approach to me.

John Dorsey won't “spend like a drunken sailor” in free agency
Browns GM believes in building through draft, using cap space to keep core players

DARYL RUITER
JANUARY 24, 2019 - 6:28 PM

© Ben Fontana-92.3 The Fan

CATEGORIES: NFL Browns
Cleveland, OH (92.3 The Fan) – The Cleveland Browns will enter free agency with the largest amount of salary cap space to play with than any other team in the NFL when the new league year begins on March 13.

But don’t look for general manager John Dorsey to order up a Brinks truck and start throwing bags and bags of cash at players in a wild free agency shopping spree come mid-March.

Thursday afternoon Dorsey explained to Adam ‘The Bull’ and Dustin Fox in an interview on 92.3 The Fan his philosophy when it comes to team-building and whether he believes it is best to build by buying players in the offseason.

“Me, personally, no, but I think if you do it right, if you're prudent and you get the right player who really cares about the game of football and is competitive, then you can go make your mark,” Dorsey said. “You just can't go spend like a drunken sailor. To me, you just can’t do that.”

Dorsey believes in building through the draft first, rewarding picks that pan out with extensions, then filling a critical need through free agency.

“You have to build your core nucleus of your team through your draft,” Dorsey said. “What that does is you basically introduce them to your culture and your environment. Then as guys begin to perform and play to that level, then you say, ‘You know what? You guys deserve an extension, so here it is.’

“You do that to show guys in locker room that you keep your word and you’re true to your word.”

Last year – Dorsey’s first as GM in Cleveland – saw him make three trades right out of the gate for safety Damarious Randall, receiver Jarvis Landry and quarterback Tyrod Taylor.

Randall became one of the defensive MVPs and is expected to be extended this offseason while Landry, who signed a 5-year $75 million extension last April, led the team in catches and receiving yards. Taylor is set to hit free agency after a concussion sidelined him in week 3 and he was supplanted by rookie Baker Mayfield.

After starting last offseason with $118 million in cap room, a total of 7 players were signed as unrestricted free agents including defensive backs Terrance Mitchell, EJ Gaines and T.J. Carrie while 8 more came from the 2018 draft, 3 undrafted free agents and 6 waiver claims.

According to salary cap figures from the NFLPA, the Browns will roll over $56 million over into the 2019 league year – nearly $7 million more than the Indianapolis Colts will roll over – and they could project to have upwards of $100 million or more in room for a second straight year.

In addition to Taylor, Gaines, left tackle Greg Robinson and receiver Breshad Perriman are their biggest names set to become unrestricted free agents in March. Cornerback Briean Boddy-Calhoun and receiver Rashard Higgins will be restricted free agents.

Dorsey explained to Bull and Fox just how much time and work goes into preparing for the offseason roster work, including the draft and free agency.

“It truly is a fascinating process. It's gonna take about 60,000 hours to get this thing right,” Dorsey said. “From a processing standpoint, it's called due diligence and making sure you tun over every stone and you’re meticulous in your detail and at the same time believe your eyes and listen a lot to what people have to say.

“We’ve implemented the same system that I’ve been associated with for the last 20-some years and it’s got a high degree of success.”

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Sound strategy.

so i don't see us getting a guy like OBJ or some diva who wants to get paid and get stats

but, i do see us taking a chance on kareem hunt (his price tag will be diminished for obvious reasons)

This article from Dawg Pound Daily gave me additional understanding and numbers to clarify the team's cap situation. Thought it might be useful to others.

Cleveland Browns: How the cap situation really looks
by Elliot Kennel 1 week ago Follow @ebkennel


The Cleveland Browns have the salary cap space to add talent this offseason, but it might not be quite the bonanza that fans are led to expect.
The Cleveland Browns have the salary cap space to add talent this offseason, but it might not be quite the bonanza that fans are led to expect. Every year, the media (excepting Dawg Pound Daily, of course) puts out some news blurb that the Browns have some huge amount of salary cap space — $83 Million in 2019, for instance — so naturally it is expected that the Browns are going to sign several big-name players like Le’Veon Bell, Jadeveon Clowney, DeMarcus Lawrence, and others.

However, total salary cap space has very little to do with how much money the Browns actually have available for improving the team in 2019. To review the basics, that $83 million is composed of two different types of money. There is an annual salary cap and then there is carryover.


The annual cap will be about $190 Million in 2019, and that’s what the annual payroll should actually be, give or take. That is like your annual salary. All NFL teams get a new cap for each year, and it is expected to increase by about $10 million per year under the current agreement.


Then there is carryover money, which is unspent money from previous years. That’s like a savings account. Once it is spent, it is gone. It’s wise to have a stash of about $30-$50 million in case, for example, you are the Washington Redskins and your guy Alex Smith suffers a career-threatening injury. But you’re not going to just blow that money on free agents for one year and then be broke the next year. In the case of the Browns, you do want them to re-sign Myles Garrett and Baker Mayfield when the time comes, right? So let’s forget about blowing the carryover money on one-time free agents this year. That is just not a good football strategy

When carryover is included, the Browns total salary cap is equal to the annual cap plus carryover. For the Browns, that number in 2019 is about

TOTAL CAP = $190 Million plus $52 Million = $242 Million.


But as argued above, no way will the Browns blow their entire carryover this year. It’s much more likely that the Browns will let it ride. The Browns 2019 target in all likelihood will be around the $190 Million annual cap, give or take a few million.

The Browns cap money is used to cover current year player salaries and bonuses, plus payments on guaranteed money from players previously cut (Carlos Hyde and Corey Coleman being the most significant). We’re planning to draft players in the draft, and they want to get paid also, so we better plant to pay them. The amount will vary depending on trades on so forth, but as a guess, the Browns will need to spend about $6 Million on NFL draft picks. For the Browns,

Browns Cap Charges – $157 million + $5 million + $6 million = $168 million.

So a decent estimate for what the Browns can actually afford is about


AVAILABLE DOLLARS = $23 million.

not the bullfeathers $84 million number which the Browns are absolutely not going to approach. The Browns have to re-sign or replace a few key players who are leaving, including WR Breshad Perriman, OT Greg Robinson, QB Tyrod Taylor, DB E. J. Gaines, and DB Brien Boddy-Calhoun. It is doubtful whether Tyrod Taylor would stay in Cleveland given that he has zero chance of ever becoming the starter, but if he were to stay it would be at a lower rate. The Browns are probably most motivated to sign Perriman and Robinson, with the two DBs receiving very modest offers from the Browns. It is not going to break the bank to re-sign these players if the Browns want them.

If the Browns want to create some additional salary cap, they can cut Jamie Collins, which would save about $9.2 Million. Collins is a good player but not at the All-Pro level of a few years ago. For that reason, the Browns will probably let him go. He may get an offer at a lower rate.

Damarious Randall could also be cut, and the Browns would probably save $9.1 Million. However, Randall has earned high marks for his play especially from the safety position but he can play either safety or corner. His contract is only for one year, the risk factor is lower for Randall than a potential new hire, who would probably get multi-year guaranteed money. $9.1 million is high for Randall, but not out of line, so probably he will stay.

Chris Hubbard has $3.2 Million in guaranteed money, but nevertheless, it would create an additional $4.1 Million of cap space if he were cut. Hubbard struggled more than the other four linemen in the second half of the season, but he was not terrible. He probably stays as well, but he better shows the new coaching staff that he’s in great shape this off-season.

Christian Kirksey’s name sometime comes up based on a football point of view, but the Browns will not recover cap space if they cut him, since he still has an astounding $10.6 Million guaranteed in his contract. Cutting Kirksey generates ZERO dollars in cap space, and allows the Browns to subsidize him to join Joe Haden with the Steelers while the Browns pay his salary. That would be crazy. Hence, he will play for the Browns in 2019 if he is still breathing.

Although ownership has been criticized on a number of fronts, the Haslams are not cheap owners. On the contrary, when they’ve been asked to write big checks for coaches and assistants, they have stepped up and gotten the job done, big time. We should not confuse salary cap maneuvers with being cheap. The salary cap is real, and it appears that the Browns are doing everything they can to manage the cap well in order to bring home a winner.

RELATED STORY: Cleveland Browns 5 Under Radar Free Agents
The 2019 team is different than the teams of the past few years because there is depth. In the past, the Browns could sign anyone who could play and guarantee them a roster spot. In 2019, the Browns will keep about 10 roster spaces for draft picks and undrafted rookies.

Thus, to make the Opening Day 53-player roster, the Browns need to target players who are going to be about 43rd best on the team or better. That may prove to be somewhat more difficult than the past few years when anyone this side of Kenny Britt represented an upgrade. That says that the Browns will have less need to sign marginally talented players this off-season.




Thus, because the Browns are not in the position to use much of the $52 million in emergency carryover money, the net amount that the Browns have to sign major upgrades is coarsely estimated at around $23 million, give or take a few million. If they get really enamored with the free agent, they have the ability to overspend the salary cap, but this is very likely not their plan.

NEXT: Browns biggest needs and potential free agents to target
The Browns have cap space to possibly retain players like Breshad Perriman, Greg Robinson, E. J. Gaines, and Brien Boddy-Calhoun if they want, and there is still enough cap room to make one or two major upgrades. Optionally, by cutting players such as Jamie Collins and Chris Hubbard, for example, they could add another $13 Million to the war chest and make a serious play for a few major free agents.