Just listened to Trump's 'Good Faith Proposal', answer is still NO Wall IMHO. The Radical Left will control the border...
If the answer is still no then perhaps the democrat party needs to remove Pelosi and put someone in position that can negotiate for the good of the country. From an independent standpoint it doesn't look good when one party extends an offer and you're not talking and compromising. Its a bad look.
Yep. And I agree with her and Schumer on their responses to the dud of a “major” announcement from trump.
Even Ann Coulter admitted he was a crap negotiator. I’m riding with Pelosi, the real alpha.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
This sums up Washington DC. I don't know how anyone can possibly support her at this point. This is part of a large problem that extends to every member in congress and anyone involved in government in general. They pull stunts where if they did that in the private sector they'd be laughed out of the room and fired.
Just listened to Trump's 'Good Faith Proposal', answer is still NO Wall IMHO. The Radical Left will control the border...
If the answer is still no then perhaps the democrat party needs to remove Pelosi and put someone in position that can negotiate for the good of the country. From an independent standpoint it doesn't look good when one party extends an offer and you're not talking and compromising. Its a bad look.
And here in lies the problem. In politics both sides negotiate. Trump threw out the opening salvo. In negotiations two sides go back and forth with counter offers until a middle ground is reached. We don't live in a monarchy where the king dictates policy and his underlings simply comply.
Now I do certainly think the Democrats should negotiate in good faith. But this will be an ongoing negotiation. It won't happen overnight. As such, 800,000 people aren't getting paid. The local businesses they spend money at aren't making money and there are working people across the nation suffering because of it.
The Democrats want these people put back to work so they are no longer suffering during this negotiation process. That doesn't seem too terribly outrageous to me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Donald Trump has cited San Antonio as proof that border walls make the US safer, despite the Texas city not having a border wall and being 150 miles from Mexico.
“Everyone knows that walls work,” claimed the president as he addressed reporters outside the White House. “You look at different places, they put up a wall, no problem.
“You look at San Antonio, you look at so many different places; they go from one of the most unsafe cities in the country to one of the safest cities, immediately, immediately. It works. We have to put them up, and we will put them up. We've got to."
Mr Trump’s comments on Saturday were intended to justify his demand for $5.7bn to fund a US-Mexico border wall.
The president may have intended to refer to El Paso, a Texas border city he used as an example in a similar anecdote last week.
“El Paso… was one of the most dangerous cities in the country,” Mr Trump claimed during a 14 January speech in New Orleans. “A wall was put up. It went from being one of the most dangerous cities in the country to one of the safest cities in the country overnight.”
The president’s depiction of El Paso’s transformation is also inaccurate, however.
The city has never been “one of the most dangerous” in the US and already had one of the lowest crime rates among the country’s largest urban areas before construction of a 57-mile border fence began in 2008.
El Paso’s violent crime rate was also lower in each of the three years before the fence was built than in each of the three years after it was finished, according to the Annenberg Public Policy Centre’s fact-checking website.
Mr Trump’s reference to San Antonio’s non-existent wall came before a live televised address in which he offered expanded protections for some undocumented immigrants as a concession to Democrats in return for the $5.6bn.
House speaker Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer rejected the proposed trade-off, which the president had hoped could bring an end to a month-long federal government shutdown.
Ms Pelosi dismissed the offer as “a compilation of several previously rejected initiatives, each of which is unacceptable and in total, do not represent a good faith effort to restore certainty to people’s lives”.
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i've been to san antonio. i don't remember a wall being there, but maybe it's invisible? like the dog fences?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The Democrats want these people put back to work so they are no longer suffering during this negotiation process. That doesn't seem too terribly outrageous to me.
What makes you think the democrats will still negotiate once the government is reopened?
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
The Democrats want these people put back to work so they are no longer suffering during this negotiation process. That doesn't seem too terribly outrageous to me.
What makes you think the democrats will still negotiate once the government is reopened?
Because unlike the lies on Fox News and in the oval, the Dems want immigration reform and have already voted multiple times for border security.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The Democrats want these people put back to work so they are no longer suffering during this negotiation process. That doesn't seem too terribly outrageous to me.
What makes you think the democrats will still negotiate once the government is reopened?
I think you mean if we help these people get back to work, what evil crap will we have to make the Dems give Trump his way... This isn't a negotiation, this is a bullying cry baby throwing fits.
The Democrats want these people put back to work so they are no longer suffering during this negotiation process. That doesn't seem too terribly outrageous to me.
What makes you think the democrats will still negotiate once the government is reopened?
I'm not actually sure they will. But why hold 800,000 government employees and all of the local businesses they support hostage over this? Even Trump supporters should be able to see this isn't helping him.
Now you have the Ann Coulter's of the world calling his offer amnesty and the Dems refusing to try and work out a deal until the people go back to work. So now he's taking flack from both sides.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Anyone surprised that the speech was riddled with lies haven't been paying attention. His mouth was open and hot air was coming out. Any time that happens he's lying.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Pit, I will give you my opinion on the wall and the fight surrounding it...
I support border security. Is the wall the best way to achieve that? I honestly don't know. I certainly don't think it would hurt but I have no real strong feelings one way or the other on whether we should build a physical wall. We just need better security on our southern border, better safety for our border agents, etc.
The part I find most intriguing about the whole fight is that it has forced the left into a posture of fiscal responsibility.. which I think the right should use. If the claim is that it's a waste of $5 billion dollars on something that won't have a good ROI in terms of its effectiveness, then fine, let's reopen the budget and look at all of the other stuff we are spending billions on that will have very little ROI in the lives of the American people... let's cut all of the "bridge to nowhere" type projects and the studies on cow farts and ALL of the other pork that has been stuck in there by both parties.. let's reopen it and look at it through this new fiscal responsibility lens the democrats have found.. let's do it.
It would be fun to watch both sides try to justify all of their pet projects that they have secured funding for which will only benefit a handful of people in their own district...
"Bridge to nowhere" reminds me of a bridge in W.Virginia. A really, really nice bridge, in the middle of no where. 90% of the vehicles that crossed it were..............4 wheelers. ATV's.
The message I sense is that they feel the money would be better spent on other methods of border security. That a wall isn't the type of thing America stands for.
I disagree with them. I would like to see some actual plan though. Where and why a wall should be built. You see, in his latest speech, he called the 5.7 billion a "down payment". What I won't support is going into this with no plan and the possibility that every time he wants more money for the wall he holds the government hostage.
And one thing I think people need to keep in mind. Since it's obvious from his comment that this is a "down payment".... Once you pay a person blackmail, those payments never end. It would set a disturbing precedent.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The message I sense is that they feel the money would be better spent on other methods of border security. That a wall isn't the type of thing America stands for.
I disagree with them. I would like to see some actual plan though.
I agree with you. If they have a better idea, let's roll it out so people can see and discuss it.
Quote:
You see, in his latest speech, he called the 5.7 billion a "down payment". What I won't support is going into this with no plan and the possibility that every time he wants more money for the wall he holds the government hostage.
$5.7 billion for 215 miles of wall is over $5,000 per LINEAR FOOT to build the wall.
Funny how a guy who works with construction contracts isn’t asking about the total cost.
As I said in my original post in this thread, everyone ask for the monthly payment, but never the total cost.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The message I sense is that they feel the money would be better spent on other methods of border security. That a wall isn't the type of thing America stands for.
I disagree with them. I would like to see some actual plan though.
I agree with you. If they have a better idea, let's roll it out so people can see and discuss it.
I would like to see both sides actually show us their plan. Trump has thrown out varied plans and has only told us a small part of what I guess one would call his "latest plan".
It started out as a 30 feet tall, three feet thick, concrete wall that Mexico was going to pay for. Over time it has turned into a steel slat fence that America is going to pay for. According to him the reason for that change was because, "That's what the Democrats want".
Last year he requested 25 billion for a border wall. This year it's 5.7 billion and he calls it "a down payment". So does this mean every time he wants another "payment" he'll say he's proud to shut down the government and hold government workers and their contractors hostage again?
I would compare that to a contractor coming to my home and saying he was going to build me a stone wall around my property and my neighbors were going to pay for it. Then come back later to tell me that he was going to build me a steel fence but it will cost me 30,000 dollars. Only to come back later and say that he wants a down payment of 5,000 dollars but won't write me a contract giving me the total of the job or even how much of the fence he plans to put up.
I don't know about you, but he's not getting the job nor do I trust him to do the job.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Here is a no nonsense solution: Find out why they come here illegally, and what would change that. Make an honest attempt to correct that. In the meantime, get much harsher punishment on those that do still come illegally to help persuade others from trying. Punish employers who employ illegals. Create a better system for employers to check immigration/citizenship status. Create systems to report illegals when they use public resources. IE: Don't deny them emergency care, but report them so we can do something about them for the future.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Those all sound like common sense approaches. I would certainly concentrate on the employers. I believe most people understand that the vast majority who enter our country illegally come here for a better life. If we can stop companies from hiring illegals it would go a long way in stopping that incentive.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Dems just got more leverage. also, the dems once again offered up a new deal: 5 billion for border security, but no new structures, which means he can do whatever with the 5 billion except build his stupid ass wall.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I saw just a couple of days before he made the offer that the SCOTUS had no plans to take the case. He offered something he first tried to take away but knew wasn't going away no matter what. It was pretty much a nothing burger to make himself sound good.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
playing devils advocate, maybe his plan was never to really build a wall. Maybe his plan all along was swing wide and obscure, then settle for something more manageable more money for border security, immigration changes, etc.
I know most of you will say "he's too dumb to think that far ahead", but honestly, he didn't get where he is by being a complete idiot. Though I will say he comes across as a complete imbecile, especially with the tweets.
Trump has always played to the public perception and used it for his own gain, ever since he stepped into the spotlight.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
and isn't that the big issue here (obviously besides securing the border)?
where's this great negotiator the american people were supposed to be getting? cause i'm not seeing it. i see a lot of hissy fits on twitter and dictator like demands, but no actual wheeling and dealing.
i mean damn, Pit. he initially tried to yank protections away from DACAs, then turned around and went "ill protect daca for a wall".
he tried the same crap with yanking the Iranian nuclear deal, and now look; they're trying to start their program back up, completely opposite of what Trump thought was gonna happen. bruh i get better negotiations from my 10 year old.
back to the border, this crap is dumb. multiple chances to open the government. multiple bills that gave him 1.6 bill, and now 5 billion for border security. a deal last year that wouldve gave him 25 bill for a wall in exchange for a pathway to citizenship for DACA.
there's a reason why the majority hold him responsible for the shutdown. there's a reason why his approval ratings are dropping. there's a reason why despite having full control of the government for 2 years, he didn't get this stupid ass wall funded.
because he's a fraud.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I think he's sly like a fox. How else can you get your followers to go from supporting a 30' tall, three feet thick concrete wall that Mexico is going to pay for, to supporting a steel fence that tax payers will pay for? Then put 800,000 people out of work, plus harm all the businesses those people support, and still have their backing?
Either he is sly like a fox or those that continue to buy into his ever changing BS are dumb as a rock. I'll let everyone decide that one for themselves without my input.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
That's one of the percs of being born wealthy. You can hire people to make you look good. But when you're forced to face the music and speak for yourself, the truth, or lack there of is revealed.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
That's one of the percs of being born wealthy. You can hire people to make you look good. But when you're forced to face the music and speak for yourself, the truth, or lack there of is revealed.
Ahhh, The truth has been revealed LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Funny how a guy who works with construction contracts isn’t asking about the total cost.
As I said in my original post in this thread, everyone ask for the monthly payment, but never the total cost.
I wasn't asking about the total price because I can't comprehend a $5.7 billion project. That's why in my previous post I broke it down into a linear foot price for the wall. $5,000 per LF is insane. You can build a 12' high 12" thick concrete wall with a footing and everything for $1,000 per LF... I can't comprehend what a $5,000/LF wall would even look like.
