DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Interesting take from ESPN on Haslam and the coaching search

I warned u to stay away ... how’s it working out so far .... ...

Love when u asked it about “what type of logic are u using” .. when u have to ask that question ... isn’t that a sign you prolly shouldn’t be engaged in the convo ... just sayin ...

ok

what about chubb?

nah man, ward is 5x the player JM

who said or implied that?

You must just troll for arguments... Is that your satisfaction here?

Or maybe you have reading comprehension issues? Please go and read what I've said if you care to engage with me. I would have said "go back and re-read" but it's obvious you didn't read the first time. Maybe then we can have an actual meaningful conversation. I won't wait.

According to PFF McCourty was ranked higher than Ward... albeit not by much... and I wasn't referring to the rookies. I don't think it's right to assume we would have drafted the same players that Dorsey did if Sashi were here.

To be fair in this argument, and I know this is a bad take (but fulfills the fact Sashi acquired many of these picks before he was jettisoned), but I assume however that the players we would have selected at 1, 4, 33, 35, 64, 65, and 101 would be on the roster among other draft picks (picks 4, 35, and 64 were acquired by Sashi). I can't assume we make the same trades and I can't assume the same players selected. I'd also assume Kizer is still here and FS is still a possible need.


In other words, it's difficult to say how much different things would be... you could take this in any direction you like, but one thing is for certain, we don't have some of these young players without the assets Sashi brought in... One could be bold enough to attribute picks 4, 35, and 64 to Sashi if they like, but that's not me...

My point is simply we aren't as good as we are right now and our future isn't as bright without the work Sashi did, whether we do or do not have those 1st overall picks from the past 2 drafts... Others will sell it to you differently, but that wouldn't be accurate.

Joe Thomas retired. He will go into the Hall of Fame on his 1st ballot.



He did, but not a better year than Chubb. Crow also got hurt and missed the final 3 games.



He's been a solid CB over the course of his career, and I wish we would have kept him. However, he is 31, and I am sure that factored into things. He also had derogatory comments about the 2017 coaches, and I am sure that sealed his fate once Haslem decided to bring Hue back.

Mac, you keep judging the performance of Sashi Brown as a GM. I will say it again, Sashi was not the GM. From the moment Farmer was fired, to the moment Dorsey was hired, the job of GM of the Cleveland Browns was vacant. Sashi was the Vice President of Football Operations. Since there was no GM, he did the tasks normally done by a GM.

But here is the key difference, and what you don't seem to take into consideration when judging Sashi; the GM's main job is building a team. Sashi wasn't trying to build the team, he was building the GM position. When Farmer was fired, it was the worst GM job in the NFL. Dorsey wanted the job because Sashi had completely turned it around.

IMO, Sashi knew he didn't have the knowledge or experience to be a GM, but he knew how to make the position desirable enough for a top GM candidate to want it. So that is what he did, and he did a good job.

You could have added owner to that list as well.


Just saying.


Owners don't really have a apprentice program and work their way up to being owner like a GM does over 30 years, or a scout, or mechanic, etc.

They are just people who managed to make a boatload of money in their life venture and were in position to buy a NFL franchise. Heck, to buy a McDonalds franchise a new franchisee has to work for 6 months in a store for evaluation. At least they did when my brother bought his first store in the mid 70's. McDonalds wanted you to know what you were getting in to and wanted some idea if you would be successful. They had to work the various stations just as a crew person would, learn the systems, procedures, the control methods. McDonalds didn't and doesn't just grant a franchise because you had/have the coin to buy one. You have to be invested in the system.

They wanted to know you knew how, and would do it the right way. Ray Kroc didn't allow it any other way.


The NFL, there is a limited supply of people with the ability to buy a team, so they can't put too many requirement above having the coin. Lot's of people can find a way to come up with a quarter mil cash and a net worth doubled that. Lot's less can find a billion or so.

I suppose that's fair... To want experience. It works sometimes.

Experience is most likely why we went with Hue and fired Sashi and we all know how that turned out.

I guess my post is best understood by knowing what preceded it. There's some who believe the roster turnover is the reason for the turnaround from 0 wins to 7 wins. I was merely pointing out that we got rid of some pretty good players for some lesser or equivalent players.

The roster turnover has a lot less to do with our success than a few key additions. We all know who those key additions are, however some here have their agendas to uphold and insist on spreading fake news.

I have to think they either know they're trolling or they really don't understand why we started winning.

We started winning because we added players like Baker, Chubb, Ward, Randall, Landry, Callaway, Perriman, Fells, Hubbard, Robinson, Avery, and so forth. Mostly, though, we added Baker.

.........And got rid of Hue. Hue coached those same players and could not win.

That's true. I just went with players.

Either way, we are trending up.

It still remains to be seen if Freddie can be the HC we hope for, so we will have to wait and see, though I think he will be just fine in that role.

Yes we do. Hue was given a fair shot with real talent and failed. We ended up with a real GM who knew how to use assets to build a real team.

In the end it all seems to have worked out great.

You sure do.

Lol. Says the one who ignores the truth.

If that's what you truly believe, then I can see why you have your agendas. Good luck.

The truth that Dorsey rebuilt this team? Nah, I refuse to ignore it and claim it didn't matter. I don't claim that we could have won 7 games with last years OT's, last years RB's, last years secondary and a rebuilt WR core.

Nah, I'm not the one trying to say that only a HC and QB makes the difference. And I'm not the one who is trolling by using crap content like "fake news".

Lol...Pit would rather have Robinson and Hubbard over Joe Thomas and (insert anyone else really) but Shon Coleman.

See what cherry picks posts is like?

The key to start winning was firing HUE, the most inept HC in the history of the game.

We improved plenty when Hue stopped calling games, and the team turnaround was massive once he was taken out of the building.

Firing Hue was the Key factor.... you and the others know that, but I don't know why you will never admit it.

Ahhhh...

You must have missed the fact that Joe Thomas retired and we had no LT. Robinson was certainly a great find when almost everyone on the board had said the only hope was signing Nate Solder. There didn't appear to be one in the draft. There didn't appear to be on on the market. Yet Dorsey managed to find a suitable LT.

Nah, it was just everyone's imagination.

I'm not sure why you insist on making things up. If you really want to have a reasonable conversation, great. Otherwise, I'm not going to indulge you when you continue to say I've said things I haven't said. If that's how you insist on playing I'll let you troll someone else.

Yeah, yeah. Sure, sure.

Yeah, I forgot Joe Thomas retired. Again, you're completely missing the point. And what does last year's OT have to do with Thomas retiring? Joe was on last year's OT. He wasn't on this year's. This has nothing to do with my post but I still smirked at this.



No one is saying this. Stop making stuff up and changing people's argument. It's lame and a horrible tactic. Shame on you.

Dorsey found a LT out of nowhere. It was part of rebuilding this team. It was also very beneficial in protecting a rookie QB and his development. Yet some on here have seemed to indicate that the total rebuild of this team wasn't as important as it actually was and will be moving forward.

No one is saying this. Stop making stuff up and changing people's argument. It's lame and a horrible tactic. Shame on you.

Of course it is. Dorsey deserves credit for finding an LT. Who is saying he doesn't? Not me. Not devicedawg, the other person you debating with. You are trying to re-create posters' arguments. Stop doing this.

There were alot of things that went into rebuilding this team, but all of it isn't confined to 2018. This is what you choose not to accept (and for obvious reasons, unfortunately).

And yes, Robinson is part of that in 2018. Most people have said this countless times in one way or another.

I am well aware. And I have said as much.

Actually, Dorsey deserves credit for finding 2 LTs... Desmond Harris is clearly raw but most felt he was doing a respectable job, enough that we didn't have to panic over the position even if he wasn't the long term solution.

If Harrison amounts to something in the future, absolutely.

You are right. Only 60% of it in one year. Year two is still to come. Rome wasn't built in a day. If there are only 10 players left going into the 2019 season from Sashi's regime, will you still be singing the same song?

Yeah, almost every skill position on the roster was turned over heading into 2018, no biggie.

But wait a minute.... Hue finally failed when he was given a good roster. He was a darn good coach with a bad roster in 2016 and 2017. Poor Hue suffered right through that mess. I don't think any other coach on the planet could have managed to stay sane with a roster like that. Thankfully, this magician came along and transformed the entire roster in less than a year. I don't know what happened, but all of a sudden Hue couldn't coach.

Do you even know what you're trying to argue?

Using a false narrative doesn't help you. What was said was the Hue deserved to have a decent roster to see if he was a good coach or not. Maybe that's where you're real hang up is. Because that's what Dorsey said and did.

I'm sure that great QB room of the 2016 Browns gave Hue every chance at success, right? That great secondary? Corey Coleman? The Crow?

So Hue got a fair shot and failed. It was Dorsey who accumulated the team that gave Hue that shot. But I've figured out the real problem here. Dorsey said that you had to give Hue some real players and that hadn't been done before. He did just that and now you refuse to give him the proper credit for it because, well...... Sashi!

Yes I do. It's just against the rules of the board to actually state what that is.