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Wow.
That went right over your head.
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From my perspective you aren't as smart as you think you are.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I don't think I'm smart at all. Im just logical.
Let's try this another way...
Now this is according to you:
2016 - not a real roster- Hue Jackson 1-15
2017 - not a real roster- Hue Jackson 0-16
2018 - real roster- Hue Jackson 2-5-1
2018 - real roster- Gregg Williams 5-3
What do you devise from this?
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devi..I have always believed that there is no substitute for EXPERIENCE to insure a positive outcome.
Regardless whether we are talking about an electrician or a mechanic, a football coach or a GM...EXPERIENCE related to their field of work is the #1 quality I look for.
Dorsey brought 35 yrs of football experience with him when he joined the Browns and he brought a couple of ex-Packers with him who added more experience to our front office... Eliot Wolf and Alonzo Highsmith.
I'm looking forward to this season as the Browns turn around continues...woof Mac, you keep judging the performance of Sashi Brown as a GM. I will say it again, Sashi was not the GM. From the moment Farmer was fired, to the moment Dorsey was hired, the job of GM of the Cleveland Browns was vacant. Sashi was the Vice President of Football Operations. Since there was no GM, he did the tasks normally done by a GM. But here is the key difference, and what you don't seem to take into consideration when judging Sashi; the GM's main job is building a team. Sashi wasn't trying to build the team, he was building the GM position. When Farmer was fired, it was the worst GM job in the NFL. Dorsey wanted the job because Sashi had completely turned it around. IMO, Sashi knew he didn't have the knowledge or experience to be a GM, but he knew how to make the position desirable enough for a top GM candidate to want it. So that is what he did, and he did a good job.
It is a fact that some franchises do not use the term "GM" to identify the position that is in charge of their roster/player personnel, etc. That does not mean those franchises are operating without someone performing the duties of the GM positions.
Many teams use "Executive vice president/general manager"...Ravens, Saints, Steelers..
...Jerry Jones calls himself the "Owner/president/general manager"..
...Mike Brown is listed as the Bengals "President/general manager"..
...the Redskins use 2 names "Senior VP of player personnel" and "Senior VP of football operations" with no mention of "a GM"..
...the Eagles use the name " Executive Vice President of Football Operations"..no mention of a GM but Howie Roseman handles the duties of GM for the Eagles.
As for Sashi Brown, ask yourself...
...who was put in charge of the Browns 53 man roster?
...was he involved the draft and in judging draft talent?
...was he involved in the Browns "free agency" strategy?
w8, you can claim that Sashi wasn't the Browns GM and you can create your own job description for Sashi, claiming " Sashi wasn't trying to build the team, he was building the GM position ".
That explanation might satisfy you, but you will not change my opinion!
Sashi was the Browns GM, doing his best to use analytics to help judge talent..especially draft talent. It was Haslam who hired Sashi to fill the role, knowing full well that Sashi was weak on football experience.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I devise that we did not have a good roster in 2016 or 2017. I devise that Hue could have won more games if he were a better coach but it still wouldn't have made those rosters any better.
I devise that Hue did not have a chance of having a winning season in either 2016 nor 2017 with the talent he was given. I devise that we're better off with Hue gone.
I devise that Dorsey overhauled this roster and we are better at almost every skill position and that Dorsey is fully responsible for that. I devise that neither Sashi nor those that came before him had a clue on addressing the skill positions and without that you're basically non competitive in the NFL.
Dorsey is the one who addressed our weaknesses and gave us a competitive roster and some wish not to give him credit for what he accomplished. They wish to indicate we had much more talent than we did before Dorsey arrived.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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As for Sashi Brown, ask yourself...
...who was put in charge of the Browns 53 man roster?
...was he involved the draft and in judging draft talent?
...was he involved in the Browns "free agency" strategy?
I think this is where I think the foul up is. Sashi was the final say on the 53 man roster, but that really wasn't important when you have a collaborative group. I think it was said several times that Sashi would rely heavily on guys like Andrew Berry for talent evaluations. I would contend to make up the traditional GM position we had several in the front office to make up this one position and Sashi was just a small part of that.
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devise that neither Sashi nor those that came before him had a clue on addressing the skill positions and without that you're basically non competitive in the NFL. I'd say that's difficult to devise from record alone. I also wouldn't be able to say one way or another because Sashi wasn't in charge of that. Dorsey is the one who addressed our weaknesses and gave us a competitive roster and some wish not to give him credit for what he accomplished. They wish to indicate we had much more talent than we did before Dorsey arrived. I read this board a lot and I'll admit not every post. However, I've never seen anyone discredit what Dorsey has done. What I continually see are the posts that discredit the acquisitions of picks and players that the Browns made under Sashi's watch. I think it's obvious we aren't here without them both, but some profess a false narrative that speaks otherwise.
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It's obvious to me that when you trade down you acquire picks. I don't see that as anything that anyone wouldn't acquire when trading down or trading players away. We have 11 picks this year too. So it seems that Dorsey can mange that same accomplishment while also building an actual team. I give Sashi credit for getting some talent, but he failed miserably at putting a competitive team together or addressing any of the skill positions. You don't win football games with a weak secondary and a lack of skill players.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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It was part of rebuilding this team. There were alot of things that went into rebuilding this team, but all of it isn't confined to 2018. This is what you choose not to accept (and for obvious reasons, unfortunately). And yes, Robinson is part of that in 2018. Most people have said this countless times in one way or another. You are right. Only 60% of it in one year. Year two is still to come. Rome wasn't built in a day. If there are only 10 players left going into the 2019 season from Sashi's regime, will you still be singing the same song? Yeah, almost every skill position on the roster was turned over heading into 2018, no biggie. I am not taking side in this deal, but turning rosters after a new GM or coach enters isn't unusual. They always see great change...I mean why would you change much if you are winning on a regular basis? My feeling is this: After Hue was released we made great strides this year. It is evident that Hue was holding the team back due to his lack of leadership ability. There is no denying that. It was night and day from the get go once he was released. That said, it is reasonable to think that Hue was also holding back the teams that Sashi and crew provided. That isn't to say that Sashi was as good as Dorsey....he wasn't. He just wasn't providing a group of players with which you couldn't win games. I think it's fair to say that Sashi was better at his job then Hue was at his.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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j/c:
The original post was great. Very insightful. It was so freaking worthy of discussion. I was thrilled when I first read it because of all the talking points that it presented.
However, as I was reading it, the thought dawned on me that the usual suspects would turn this thread into another Sashi vs Hue thread. And sure enough, they didn't disappoint.
Both Sashi and Hue are gone. They aren't coming back no matter how much you people cry and pine for them [well, one of them.]
So, if there are any posters who are sick and tired of a few posters hijacking almost every thread and turning it into a Sashi/Hue thread and would rather discuss the actual topic............please let me know because I have quite a bit to say about this topic. I would also love to hear from other intelligent posters about the topic rather than the dumb-ass agenda posts.
I'm trying to reach out to guys like YTown, Guard, Cap, eotab, oober, Fate, Tru, Pred, bone, Diam, Pit, Purp, etc. Let's talk about the subject and drown out the agenda BS crowd. What do you say?
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Tackles are tackles.
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I think it's fair to say that Sashi was better at his job then Hue was at his.
You done did it now, Peen!  But you're right.
Tackles are tackles.
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I think they both sucked at their jobs and both should have been fired after 1-31. But I like where that crap situation has brought us.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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The only thing I can say is this:
Despite what happened in the past, I like the path we're on right now.
It's like when you start a new relationship .... you may look back and see good and bad in your exes ...... but they are now out of your life, and irrelevant.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sashi wasn’t as bad as Hue .... WOW ... thats a real high bar ....  .... Look man ... i expect that crap from deputy, device and Memph ... they have there own little Sashi Rocks cult ... i dont expect it from u .. ARE U KIDDDING ME???? What a FRICKIN JOKE that statement is ... how does us winning with DORSEYS PLAYERS after we fired hue prove sashi was good ... ... you’d hold yourself in contempt if u made that statement in your courtroom bro ... *L* ... I get Sashi’s Heroes not wanting to adress my post what so ever ... HOW DO U IGNORE IT? .. they have to call me out on being to agressive and for spelling and grammar cause they GOT NOTHING ELSE ... they can’t refute a thing i said .. NOT ONE THING ... like I said ... FACTS DON’T HAVE FEELINGS!!!! Come on Peen ... DEFEND THIS my friend .. 1st pick is C. Coleman ... he was on 4 teams this year ... HOW IS HE GOOD BY ANY STRETCH? ... he wasn’t cut because of a new GM in Buffalo or NE .... Crap .. Buffalo traded for him and cut him 2 or 3 weeks later .. *L* .. stupid Dorsey wanting his own guys ... ... U GONNA HANG THAT ON THE sweeping BS general statement ... ummmm ... uhhhhh .. it was to be expected it was a NEW GM ... sorry ... FACTS TELL A DIFFERENT STORY ... Then he was soooo gooood he got cut YET AGAIN last year .... that means two GM’s not named Dorsey CUT HIM after Dorsey hosed the bills ... Ya ... awesome pick ... THEN U GET OGBAH ... good pick .. Carl Nassib ... .. another AWESOME PICK ... at least he got some PT this year ... that is quite the accomplishment for the majority of Sashi’s picks in 16 .. Next up .. S.Coleman ... he is SOOOO GOOOOOD I don’t believe he played a down this year in Frisco ... guess there GM wanted his guys also .. oh wait ... he traded for Coleman witch means COLEMAN IS ONE OF HIS GUYS ... Then next up is C. Kessler ... ... WOW ... U starting to see a trend here Peen? ... SASHI SUCKED .. as did Hue ... saying Sashi was “better “ than Hue is like saying that Elmo was definelty the toughest smurf ... wippie doooooo ... King John cleaned house of Sashi’s BUMS cause they STUNK not cause he wanted his guys ... witch ones went on and did SQUAT ANYWHERE ELSE ... McCourtny and i’ll give u the BUM Nassib ... after that ... GOOD LUCK PEEN ... U want to continue? ... we can go on and on with HORRIBLE DRAFT PICKS that still ain’t done DIDDLY in the NFL ... Look at his 2017 draft ... how many are all ready gone .. 3 or 4 of them ... and NONE OF THEM HAVE DONE SQUAT ANYWHERE ELSE ..... NONE of the 17 picks that got moved made a 2nd year jump ... NOT ONE OF THEM ... ... The menZas who know nuttin but stats will bring up nassib ... that just proves how little they actually know about anything but the stat sheet .. Sorry Peen .. u need to explain to me what Sashi did that tells me he can BUILD A TEAM ... he proved he can tear one down ... i said from day 1 that was THE EASY PART ... the hard part was the re-assembly ... and i’m suppose to trust Sashi for that one ... WHY??? Cause of Garret and Shobert ... WHAT ABOUT ALL THE BUMS ... crap .. dude drafted 3 or 4 WR’s in one of the WORST WR DRAFTS IN DECADES!!! BRILLIANT! It clearly wasn’t his KEEN EYE FOR TALENT ... especially at the QB position .... u guys can spin it any way u want ... He passed on not one, not two but three FRANCHISE QB’S .. and he passed on one of them twice ... meanwhile he brought us QB rooms of: RG3, McCown and Cody ... with Cody starting the majority of games ... Kizer, Kessler and Hogan ... WHAT QB ROOMS ... ... U guys have to OVERLOOK AN AWFUL LOT OF HORRIBLE MOVES to puff your boy up ... like i said i get it from device and deputy and Memph ... u ... WOW ... maybe u oughta up the number of miles u walk a day ... either that or order your ... I miss Sashi shirts .... *L* ... U wanna have a serious discussion about the job Sashi did .. LETS GO ... it wont end well for u ... U can hang your hat on the Garrett pick .. at least he didn’t screw that up ...  Just curious .... when King John does the right thing and cuts Collins this off season ... u gonna blame that on King John simply “wanting” his guys ... GIMME A BREAK BRO ...
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I'm not defending the guy, but Sashi Brown's philosophy was to stack up draft picks so you could afford to miss on some ...... because that's what's going to happen anyway.
That all said, i am glad we have Dorsey.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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w8...for you, it seems that it's the lack of the name "general manager", that proves that Sashi was not the Browns GM.
It is a fact that some franchises do not use the term "GM" to identify the position that is in charge of their roster/player personnel, etc. That does not mean those franchises are operating without someone performing the duties of the GM positions.
Many teams use "Executive vice president/general manager"...Ravens, Saints, Steelers..
...Jerry Jones calls himself the "Owner/president/general manager"..
...Mike Brown is listed as the Bengals "President/general manager"..
...the Redskins use 2 names "Senior VP of player personnel" and "Senior VP of football operations" with no mention of "a GM"..
...the Eagles use the name " Executive Vice President of Football Operations"..no mention of a GM but Howie Roseman handles the duties of GM for the Eagles.
As for Sashi Brown, ask yourself...
...who was put in charge of the Browns 53 man roster?
...was he involved the draft and in judging draft talent?
...was he involved in the Browns "free agency" strategy?
w8, you can claim that Sashi wasn't the Browns GM and you can create your own job description for Sashi, claiming " Sashi wasn't trying to build the team, he was building the GM position ".
That explanation might satisfy you, but you will not change my opinion!
Sashi was the Browns GM, doing his best to use analytics to help judge talent..especially draft talent. It was Haslam who hired Sashi to fill the role, knowing full well that Sashi was weak on football experience.
Question; do you think John Dorsey would have taken the job if it didn't come with all the cap space and draft capital? Is it so hard to believe that this was by design and not by accident?
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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j/c:
The original post was great. Very insightful. It was so freaking worthy of discussion. I was thrilled when I first read it because of all the talking points that it presented.
However, as I was reading it, the thought dawned on me that the usual suspects would turn this thread into another Sashi vs Hue thread. And sure enough, they didn't disappoint.
Both Sashi and Hue are gone. They aren't coming back no matter how much you people cry and pine for them [well, one of them.]
So, if there are any posters who are sick and tired of a few posters hijacking almost every thread and turning it into a Sashi/Hue thread and would rather discuss the actual topic............please let me know because I have quite a bit to say about this topic. I would also love to hear from other intelligent posters about the topic rather than the dumb-ass agenda posts.
I'm trying to reach out to guys like YTown, Guard, Cap, eotab, oober, Fate, Tru, Pred, bone, Diam, Pit, Purp, etc. Let's talk about the subject and drown out the agenda BS crowd. What do you say? Please do add your comments. Like any thread on any topic it starts to stray as one minor comment somewhat off topic leads to another and another. I'd like you to help steer it back to main stream, at least as long as you can.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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It sure sounds like your defending him ... he missed on way more than his fair share .. u wanna IGNORE THE RESULTS .. thats your call .. PS. QB is a FAIRLY IMPORTANT position in todays NFL ... appearantly you must be IGNORING that also or maybe u think EVEN ONE OF THOSE QB’S ISN’T COMPLETE CRAP ... He had 6 QB’s he went into seasons with ... NOT ONE OF THEM IS ANY GOOD ... there barely back ups ... Look at this dawg ... and Peen said we had a “natural” turnover due to a new GM wanting his own guys ... LETS LOOK AT THE GUYS THAT ARE GONE and see how they’ve done ... then compare it to the guys that Sashi let walk ... were not even gonna see any Kelvin Benjamins on this list MUCH LESS ANY Mitchell Scwartz’s .... i give Sashi a pass on Mack .. he didn’t want to come back ... - Kizer/Kessler/Hogan ... - Crowell/Dayes/Vitale/M. Williams - S. Coates/C. Coleman/KENNY FNG BRITT/J. Leslie/K. Williams - Z. Banner/S. Coleman/S. Drango/G. Geoff/A. Reitier/M. Martin Thats the first 4 positions the site google sent me to listed ... U SEEING A PATTERN HERE Y-TOWN? ... Ya Dorsey was a new GM that wanted HIS GUYS ... he also didn’t want a BUNCH OF CRAP that Sashi aquired ... Sashi’s cult is trying to paint him into something he wasn’t .. there trying to make a MARTYR out of the dude when he SUCKED EGGS on a good day ... He was GREAT at the tear down and at setting the table ... i even THANKED HIM for that after he got his OWN BUTT CANNED cause he couldn’t find even a BELOW AVERAGE QB ... But to say he could build a team BASED OFF HIS DRAFT RESULTS IS A JOKE on a good day ... I’m not gonna sit here and watch device, Memp and the president of the Kirby Smart fan club MARTYR Sashi cause its NOT TRUE ... HE STUNK TOO ... U wanna give him credit for leaving behind possibly the greatest table setting EVER ... i’m right there with u ... (as long as your incredibly lucky to get a 4th bite at the franchise QB apple) but when u extrapolate that out too he would have had success with the re-build ... HIS TALENT AQUISITION HISTORY here does not support that conclusion .. NOT EVEN CLOSE ... facts don’t have feelings bro ... End of the day this convo should be about THANKING SASHI for not being able to find a QB and THANKING Andy Reid for getting Dorsey fired and having him sitting there ... THIS COULD NOT HAVE WORKED OUT ANY BETTER FOR US ... we got the best of BOTH WORLDS ... An excellent tear down dude followed by what has been an excellent TALENT AQUIRER who has built one hell of a FO and ROSTER in his limited time here ... GOOD LUCK KING JOHN ... can’t wait to see whats at the end of the rainbow your building here ...
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I think it's fair to say that Sashi was better at his job then Hue was at his.
You done did it now, Peen! But you're right. That really wasn't my intent. A few posters were going back and forth...I finally added my comment. It's hard to talk about the subject without it moving in to the coaching and front office because they are closely related, but it doesn't need to be the main focus. Earlier yesterday I thought about asking the thread be locked. It seemed that the discussion was back to the same old same old finger pointing. We've been through that. In the end, we were all right to a degree, and all were wrong to a degree.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I am not going to paste your entire reply diam.
My comment wasn't to defend sashi or put Hue down to a larger degree. They both sucked.
Yep, Coleman and a bunch of others were bad choices. I mean Willis Adams type bad. You could name others who totally sucked as 1st round picks.
The comment wasn't intended to start another war of sorts. Those guys are dead and gone.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Alright, I will try. I'll start small and see if anyone wants to discuss the real talking points. I'll add more if others want to discuss the the article and some of the key points. I will bow out if the beat-to-death Sashi/Hue argument continues to be the point of emphasis.
A few talking points might be:
--I think this is a legitimate article. I think the author was much more fair and did a lot more work than the typical journalists that pop off tweets that are based on innuendo, hearsay, speculation, and drawing attention to themselves.
--I believe that while the author did get his information from sources who are w/the Browns or were once part of the organization, we still have to take notice of who those sources might have been and how their comments might be slanted due to their loyalties. I think this is important.
--One could argue that Haslam did not intentionally create the environment that helped to breed an atmosphere of tension and dissension, but it's pretty clear that that is exactly what occurred with every single regime change. I think this is a very important talking point.
--Related to the above comment, I get the comments of people like bonefish, Mourg, Diam, etc who say that this is a different regime and things are looking up under Dorsey's direction. However, what happens if the team does not meet the lofty expectations of the club, the fans, and the media next year? Will the coaching staff's lack of experience in their current roles be easy targets? Will Kitchen's appearance and delivery be ridiculed? Will the analytic guys who didn't agree w/Dorsey's choice of coach make waves in the building? And the biggest question is what will Haslam do if the these things occur? Will he continue to defer to Dorsey, or will others in the building get in his ear and affect his judgement? I am of the opinion that Haslam is the elephant in the room. That concern is tremendously amplified due to the fact that he is the owner of the team and has a history of creating divisiveness and dissension in the complex in Berea.
Anyone care to converse about any of those talking points?
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Oh my goodness.
j/c
I would agree this thread derailed and I'm sorry I got trolled into it. I would implore anyone who just hopped in to read meaningful posts to go back before the wrecking crew came in. There were actually good talks before this turned into a Hue vs Sashi vs Dorsey debate and the twisted jumble of words this became. Good lord.
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--One could argue that Haslam did not intentionally create the environment that helped to breed an atmosphere of tension and dissension, but it's pretty clear that that is exactly what occurred with every single regime change. I think this is a very important talking point.
I would argue that, although I'm obviously not sure I'm right. Not going back to read the entire article but I know there was a strong inference that JH "confided" in many people. Leadership is hard, those around you don't generally tell you what you're doing wrong, they kiss your butt instead. I remember reading something like "he confides in everyone and you think you're the one he trusts". It reminded me of my leadership style when I was "new" in business. You would think that making a special effort to get differing opinions would make them feel "included". Sadly, it can have the opposite effect. I remember asking an opinion of someone who was very important to my operation and seeing a uninspired look on his face. "What's wrong Jim?" "Well, it just seems like every time I give you my opinion, you never take my advice anyway." I could really only think of two times I had asked, and neither time did his "advice" make any sense. I quickly realized that it would be smarter to walk around like an imperialistic-know-it-all than to ask for everyone's opinions on different things. Thank them, let them know you appreciate their work, but quit trying to "include them". It's easy to forget that these people are dying to go back to a group of peers and say "Jimmy said this, Jimmy said that, Jimmy said he doesn't really trust our draft process, etc, etc..." And sadly, as the leader... no one tells you this is a problem until it is a BIG problem. They'll be sure to run up and inform you of every triviality, but no one is telling you your breath stinks or there is a bugger hanging out of your nose.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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That's an interesting take. Thanks.
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Alright, I will try. I'll start small and see if anyone wants to discuss the real talking points. I'll add more if others want to discuss the the article and some of the key points. I will bow out if the beat-to-death Sashi/Hue argument continues to be the point of emphasis.
A few talking points might be:
--I think this is a legitimate article. I think the author was much more fair and did a lot more work than the typical journalists that pop off tweets that are based on innuendo, hearsay, speculation, and drawing attention to themselves.
--I believe that while the author did get his information from sources who are w/the Browns or were once part of the organization, we still have to take notice of who those sources might have been and how their comments might be slanted due to their loyalties. I think this is important.
--One could argue that Haslam did not intentionally create the environment that helped to breed an atmosphere of tension and dissension, but it's pretty clear that that is exactly what occurred with every single regime change. I think this is a very important talking point.
--Related to the above comment, I get the comments of people like bonefish, Mourg, Diam, etc who say that this is a different regime and things are looking up under Dorsey's direction. However, what happens if the team does not meet the lofty expectations of the club, the fans, and the media next year? Will the coaching staff's lack of experience in their current roles be easy targets? Will Kitchen's appearance and delivery be ridiculed? Will the analytic guys who didn't agree w/Dorsey's choice of coach make waves in the building? And the biggest question is what will Haslam do if the these things occur? Will he continue to defer to Dorsey, or will others in the building get in his ear and affect his judgement? I am of the opinion that Haslam is the elephant in the room. That concern is tremendously amplified due to the fact that he is the owner of the team and has a history of creating divisiveness and dissension in the complex in Berea.
Anyone care to converse about any of those talking points? My biggest concern is the high expectations of the fans. I've seen teams make a big jump one year and then take a step back the following before really hitting their stride. This may not happen with the Browns, but it wouldn't surprise me either. The schedule will be tougher, and another 7-8 win season could be a reality. Sometimes, unrealistic expectations lead some to conclude a team is underachieving. In reality, the underacheivement is a case of just not living up to those lofty expectations. I'm all for high goals and going into each game expecting to win, but the reality is, while we're a team trending up, it doesn't guarantee we make a huge jump this season. The hope is that Haslam stays out of the way of Dorsey and Co.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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The hope is that Haslam stays out of the way of Dorsey and Co. This is the idea that should terrify every Browns fan. I'm not concerned about fan expectations. I would venture to guess that winning will sneak up on most fans. As much as only 7-8 wins is possible, so is winning the Super Bowl. We jumped from 0 wins to 7 wins. That is already unprecedented. Barring major injury to a key piece of the puzzle, we are in prime position for the immediate future.
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Legend
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Tempering expectations is hard. And to be blunt, that's not my job as a fan. Even in a fan community like this, I know that there will be people calling for heads to roll if we're not 10-6, still not my job to temper my expectations so that they don't over-react. Won't do it. It's the job of the organization to stay the course (as long as it is a good course) when we fail to meet lofty expectations. You would think that JH would be able to do that after the misery he's endured over the last few years. But again, egotistical billionaires aren't always the easiest to convince that "things are alright".
Where Haslam is concerned it comes down to management style. Managing hundreds of Flying J's bears little similarity to running an NFL franchise. I remember reading that he loved to travel all over the country and pop in at locations unannounced. He would compliment the workers, ask questions, tell them they were doing a great job. Everybody went home proud that day and he was lauded as being a "hands on" owner.
1 Lou Groza Boulevard is a very different place, dark when you're not winning... and always just you against many enemies. It requires a stiff hierarchy and an owner that doesn't ignore his place in it. Hopefully with Dorsey, JH has a man he can trust and will stay out of his way. If not, more shenanigans.
Last edited by FATE; 01/30/19 11:25 AM. Reason: puctuation
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Making friends I see...lol 
Anyways, I and most of this board acknowledges how lucky we were in getting Dorsey and getting him at the right time to make some very important decisions. He seemed to be the only one who knew Baker was THE GUY. His pick of Ward was questioned by so so many as well.
I did question his pick of Corbett, I didn't understand it but his pick of Chubb was amazing, I didn't realize how good Chubb was.
Calloway and Avery both amzing pick ups for a 4th and 5th round picks.
Harrison seemed to be the best LT in the draft and we got him at UDFA status.
Trades for Randall, TT and Landry were good moves.
FA pickups for Hubbard, Robinson. Shoring up our CB situation with Mitchell along with Ward. changed our entire CB situation.
Dorsey was without a doubt the Right guy at the Right time.
What I don't understand if the lack of credit given to Sashi for what transpired.
he is the one who took the brunt of two terrible seasons as we did a very RARE total Rebuild. That took guts and in the process accumulated Expansion amounts of Draft picks for Impact players.
He did draft Garrett who is a STUD, Ogbah, Schobert, Peppers, He did go out and get our Interior Zietler and Tretter. Was Botonio a pick of his??? Njoku,
So we were sitting there with the #1 #4 pick for Dorsey to make great picks for us. We were sitting with the best Cap Space of any team.
I'm so happy Dorsey came on board but his success would not be so without the set up of Sashi. Would Sashi have ruined it if he stayed on board. Not sure of ruin but definitely not the same moves made by Dorsey for sure.
Dorsey also set up the Personnel department to be a functioning asset and in the right direction. He also had the ware with all to keep Depodesta on board and a force in our process.
But I got to give Sashi a thank you and some credit for our success.
I'm happy for the job both have done. We are a better team because of Sashi and definitely because of Dorsey for sure!
I don't see the success for one means the other was no good. Both had a say in the results that happened.
For once our TIMING was great. As in the past our timing had to be the worst. We got the right guy at the right time and we had to live through HUE's Tenure here but at the end we now have Dorsey's pick of HC and the staff that is now assembled here. Got to see if it works out as well as the other football decisions. But I'm tickled pink to get to the stage that we are at!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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--One could argue that Haslam did not intentionally create the environment that helped to breed an atmosphere of tension and dissension, but it's pretty clear that that is exactly what occurred with every single regime change. I think this is a very important talking point.
I don't think it was intentional, but as the writer said, it created an appeals court for Hue. Sashi had Jimmys ear at the time. Maybe Sashi's inexperience played in to that? None the less, it created a divide once things started to go badly on the field. That's when fingers start to point. We know from the article and the Fact Sashi was let go first shows that Hue was pointing a finger. It's fair to assume Sashi was as well.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Another thought....maybe this goes back to Chud. I read somewhere that Jimmy was never really thrilled with that hire. If looks like he went with Banner or whoever pegged him as the coach and after that season he decided he wasn't going to do that anymore. Possible?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Another thought....maybe this goes back to Chud. I read somewhere that Jimmy was never really thrilled with that hire. If looks like he went with Banner or whoever pegged him as the coach and after that season he decided he wasn't going to do that anymore. Possible? I thought it was Banner who didn't like the hire... and he made the hire because he couldn't get the guy he wanted and he had every intention of firing Chud after one season to get his guy the next season. It was after the Chud firing that the media turned on Jimmy and labeled him as having a quick trigger finger. He didn't like that, so he fired Banner... at least that's the impression I took from the article I read. Or did I not read that right?
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Legend
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Oh my goodness.
j/c
I would agree this thread derailed and I'm sorry I got trolled into it. I would implore anyone who just hopped in to read meaningful posts to go back before the wrecking crew came in. There were actually good talks before this turned into a Hue vs Sashi vs Dorsey debate and the twisted jumble of words this became. Good lord.
When you start out with dumb comments you didn't get sucked in. You simply have to work your butt off to try and defend them. Diam gave you perfect examples of why Sashi sucked. Good luck defending the facts he presented. And stop blaming others for your self inflicted wounds.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I will admit that Sashi was so bad he left us in the perfect position to draft Baker and assets to build a team with. But looking at his draft record, that's about all I can say.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Another thought....maybe this goes back to Chud. I read somewhere that Jimmy was never really thrilled with that hire. If looks like he went with Banner or whoever pegged him as the coach and after that season he decided he wasn't going to do that anymore. Possible? I thought it was Banner who didn't like the hire... and he made the hire because he couldn't get the guy he wanted and he had every intention of firing Chud after one season to get his guy the next season. It was after the Chud firing that the media turned on Jimmy and labeled him as having a quick trigger finger. He didn't like that, so he fired Banner... at least that's the impression I took from the article I read. Or did I not read that right? I don't know. It wasn't touched on in this article. It did say everybody voted to replace Chud. You could be right. I just seem to remember that Haslam was never warm to the hire.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I will admit that Sashi was so bad he left us in the perfect position to draft Baker and assets to build a team with. But looking at his draft record, that's about all I can say. Sashi wasn't the guy coaching and calling stupid games, the guy who instilled a no discipline, loser, mentality in the locker room,among many other things. After what we have witnessed this year after firing Hue, I honestly believe people still talk about Sashi just not to look foolish.
Last edited by rastanplan; 01/30/19 01:46 PM.
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Legend
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Another thought....maybe this goes back to Chud. I read somewhere that Jimmy was never really thrilled with that hire. If looks like he went with Banner or whoever pegged him as the coach and after that season he decided he wasn't going to do that anymore. Possible? I thought it was Banner who didn't like the hire... and he made the hire because he couldn't get the guy he wanted and he had every intention of firing Chud after one season to get his guy the next season. It was after the Chud firing that the media turned on Jimmy and labeled him as having a quick trigger finger. He didn't like that, so he fired Banner... at least that's the impression I took from the article I read. Or did I not read that right? The infamous "Three Stooges" question during the presser after Chud was fired didn't help matters for Banner either. Haslam was getting embarrassed. Speaking to the media one day after firing first-year head coach Rob Chudzinski, Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and CEO Joe Banner were asked, poignantly, “Can you assure the fans that you don’t have the three stooges running this operation?” Link
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-I believe that while the author did get his information from sources who are w/the Browns or were once part of the organization, we still have to take notice of who those sources might have been and how their comments might be slanted due to their loyalties. I think this is important. I think it more likely it is former employees. People with jobs aren't all that eager to lose them, especially since things are looking up. We could speculate all day on the who. Former coaches, front office people, and 3rd party types...you know...Joe Banner once told me, blah,blah,blah. I doubt everything is 100% true, but all in all I think it is as credible as it is possible to get without sources going on record, and even then, that is only their point of view. People who lost a job are at least 51% leaning to their side of the story.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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What was I thinking. With Corey Coleman as your main weapon and DeShone Kizer in the pocket and Crow in the backfield, we should have been great.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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--One could argue that Haslam did not intentionally create the environment that helped to breed an atmosphere of tension and dissension, but it's pretty clear that that is exactly what occurred with every single regime change. I think this is a very important talking point.
I don't think it was intentional, but as the writer said, it created an appeals court for Hue. Sashi had Jimmys ear at the time. Maybe Sashi's inexperience played in to that? None the less, it created a divide once things started to go badly on the field. That's when fingers start to point. We know from the article and the Fact Sashi was let go first shows that Hue was pointing a finger. It's fair to assume Sashi was as well. The dissension in Berea did not start w/Sashi and Hue. It was there w/every regime that Haslam brought in. I'm trying to get this thread back on track. If it's only going to be about Sashi and Hue, then I'll bow out.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Interesting take from ESPN on
Haslam and the coaching search
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